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Well, the reason they got rid of the trinity is now obselete.


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#1 Bloodtau

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 04:41 PM

Can barely get into decent dungeon parties now as parties are only looking for certain classes (warriors, mesmers, some guardians) and won't accept anything else. Pretty disheartening really.

Edited by Bloodtau, 02 February 2013 - 04:55 PM.


#2 Dom

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 04:55 PM

I generally only play dungeons with friends and when we don't have enough of us, we grab the first random invite. Try forming your own group next time instead of trying to fit into groups who think you only need guardians, warriors and mesmers (only using those professions as examples) to win.

#3 Bloodtau

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 04:56 PM

View PostDom, on 02 February 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

I generally only play dungeons with friends and when we don't have enough of us, we grab the first random invite. Try forming your own group next time instead of trying to fit into groups who think you only need guardians, warriors and mesmers (only using those professions as examples) to win.

said decent groups though. It's a fact that most pugs are just pretty bad.

#4 Dirame

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 04:58 PM

Only between today and yesterday I joined two teams for AC that just asked for 1 more person without any indication of what they wanted. I guess there's just a few people who think you need a certain class. Hopefully they'll realize sooner or later that you don't.

#5 Dom

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 04:59 PM

View PostBloodtau, on 02 February 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

said decent groups though. It's a fact that most pugs are just pretty bad.

Oh sorry - decent groups. Not sure what defines a decent group. Is it the profession? Maybe you should roll the decent profession(s). I'm not sure what you're on about here...

#6 Saleem

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:02 PM

I guess you're out of luck then.
Perhaps you should start your own teams to make it easier.

#7 Reason on Cooldown

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:02 PM

View PostBloodtau, on 02 February 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

said decent groups though. It's a fact that most pugs are just pretty bad.

I've had lots of great PUGs.  So calling it a fact seems a bit of an exaggeration.

Also, I very rarely see anyone requesting specific classes for dungeons.

#8 Bloodtau

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:03 PM

View PostDom, on 02 February 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

Oh sorry - decent groups. Not sure what defines a decent group. Is it the profession? Maybe you should roll the decent profession(s). I'm not sure what you're on about here...

they way they play, some players just can't listen.

Hopefully this big class rebalance fixes it and the idea of "speed running" goes with another balance.

Edited by Bloodtau, 02 February 2013 - 05:05 PM.


#9 Khrushchev

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:05 PM

There will always be a "best" composition, and people who scream effectiveness will always force their team to fit that composition.

You're better off not joining those groups at all if you don't play like that, because for the same reason, they will scream at you, kick you from the group, or send you mass pm's telling you how bad you are if you make a mistake.

#10 Lordkrall

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:10 PM

There will always be people that want to speedclear things. Those will, no matter the game, require a very specific group-setup.

The only way to combat that with a game-system would be to completely remove every single profession/class, levels, skills and weapons. So people could ONLY use their mouse to attack with one attack each second or so, with no way to make it faster or more damaging.

If we get a game with that system, this kind of thinking will go away, but until we do, there will always be elitists.

Simply don't join those groups.
About 90% of the groups I see advertised does not look for specific professions and such.

#11 Dom

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:11 PM

View PostBloodtau, on 02 February 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

they way they play, some players just can't listen.

Comes with joining PUG's. You can't tell from the dungeon entrance if the player is going to listen or not or if their play style will live up to your standards but again, that's PUG'ing.

If you're still having issues forming 'decent' parties for dungeons, join a guild or join friends. I don't think I can throw any more advice in your direction. Good luck!

#12 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:12 PM

Poor balancing can happen with or without the trinity.

#13 Jump_N_Move

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:29 PM

What protoss said - aka Izzy is still bad at balancing.

#14 Bloodtau

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:30 PM

View PostProtoss, on 02 February 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

Poor balancing can happen with or without the trinity.

True true. Their whole "we get rid of trinity to make the game better!" was just an empty promise to be fair. This game would be better WITH it imo

#15 Lordkrall

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:33 PM

View PostBloodtau, on 02 February 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

True true. Their whole "we get rid of trinity to make the game better!" was just an empty promise to be fair. This game would be better WITH it imo

You mean so it would be IMPOSSIBLE to do anything without having a specific healer, a specific tank and specific DPS?
Yeah.. I am sure it is better to force people to play specific roles in order to be allowed to play.

#16 Bloodtau

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:37 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 02 February 2013 - 05:33 PM, said:

You mean so it would be IMPOSSIBLE to do anything without having a specific healer, a specific tank and specific DPS?
Yeah.. I am sure it is better to force people to play specific roles in order to be allowed to play.

Having roles made for better players and a better overall experience

#17 Krazzar

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:38 PM

So because some people try to force certain professions, which still doesn't force trinity play or builds, removing the trinity was pointless? Sorry, but at every point your logic doesn't match up. There aren't certain roles being forced, there aren't certain builds being forced, trinity play once you get in the dungeon isn't being forced, so at no point is the trinity being removed pointless, in fact it's operating quite well. People will always try to force what they think it right, that doesn't mean it's the only way to do things. Then, by your own admission, you think there are better class combinations so you are in favor of the trinity. I'll just take it a step further and assert you just want every dungeon run to go like clockwork regardless of who is playing. That reduces the game to a mechanical process and no longer fits the definition of a game.  Sorry, but no matter how much you want the trinity it isn't there. No luck farmer.

Edited by Krazzar, 02 February 2013 - 05:39 PM.


#18 Lordkrall

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:40 PM

View PostBloodtau, on 02 February 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:

Having roles made for better players and a better overall experience

No, having roles simply means that the elitists actually have a concrete ground to stand on when they refuse less good players. What if I want to play profession x, that with the trinity would be focused on tanking. But Profession y is a much better tank, should I be forced to abandon profession x and level profession y instead just so that I can get into groups?

#19 jthamind

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:40 PM

because people are too scared of having an actual challenge. oh no, we don't have a guardian or warrior to tank, so let's go cry in the corner because all hope is lost. /sarcasm

i actually think those people who let anyone into their group as long as they meet the level requirement are a lot more hardcore than those who want to maximize potential by picking specific classes and builds and excluding others. why even play the game if you want it to be as easy as possible? this isn't WoW raiding, where you NEED specific things. you can pretty much do w/e you want and still succeed as far as 99% of the dungeons go. high level fractals might be an exception, though. i wouldn't know because fractals don't interest me.


i actually find the groups that aren't the so-called "best" as far as class makeup to be the most fun ones. unless i'm in a huge hurry or something, i'd rather have a group that makes me have to actually try and put forth an effort than a group full of Warriors and a Mesmer steamrolling CoF path 1 in 10 minutes.

Edited by jthamind, 02 February 2013 - 05:42 PM.


#20 Bloodtau

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:42 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 02 February 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

No, having roles simply means that the elitists actually have a concrete ground to stand on when they refuse less good players. What if I want to play profession x, that with the trinity would be focused on tanking. But Profession y is a much better tank, should I be forced to abandon profession x and level profession y instead just so that I can get into groups?

So you are saying, you HONESTLY enjoy dungeons and harder content with the system they have right now in the game?
You're in a tiny minority if you actually do....

#21 Lordkrall

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:46 PM

View PostBloodtau, on 02 February 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

So you are saying, you HONESTLY enjoy dungeons and harder content with the system they have right now in the game?
You're in a tiny minority if you actually do....

Oh? I find the current system quite nice, seeing as it don't mean the dungeons will always be the exactly same every single run because everyone just do exactly what they "should do".

I find it highly unlikely that a tiny minority likes the game as it is now with the lack of holy trinity, if that was the case we would say WAY more people than the same "we complain about every single thing in the game"-crew complaining about it.

#22 Daesu

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:47 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 02 February 2013 - 05:33 PM, said:



You mean so it would be IMPOSSIBLE to do anything without having a specific healer, a specific tank and specific DPS?
Yeah.. I am sure it is better to force people to play specific roles in order to be allowed to play.

Isn't that already happening now if people are asking for specific professions?

Making warriors, guardians, and mesmers more overpowered already assigned them roles in the dungeon that these classes play much better than other classes.  You come back to the same thing.

Edited by Daesu, 02 February 2013 - 05:49 PM.


#23 Heart Collector

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:47 PM

View PostBloodtau, on 02 February 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

True true. Their whole "we get rid of trinity to make the game better!" was just an empty promise to be fair. This game would be better WITH it imo
No. No it would not.

Anyway, I wouldn't pay attention, there will always be elitist wannabes who use the excuse of min-maxing to hide the fact that they'd rather be carried through a dungeon. I'm not the best player out there, I'm probably worse than these dudes skill wise, but at least I try to be honest about it!

Edited by Heart Collector, 02 February 2013 - 05:48 PM.


#24 Bloodtau

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:47 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 02 February 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

Oh? I find the current system quite nice, seeing as it don't mean the dungeons will always be the exactly same every single run because everyone just do exactly what they "should do".

I find it highly unlikely that a tiny minority likes the game as it is now with the lack of holy trinity, if that was the case we would say WAY more people than the same "we complain about every single thing in the game"-crew complaining about it.

Guru is also a minority. Take anything on here with a pinch of salt.

#25 Eliirae

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:49 PM

View PostBloodtau, on 02 February 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:

Having roles made for better players and a better overall experience

[sarcasm]If you're an elementalist you'd better be a healer because they can heal.  Doesn't matter if elementalists can't heal well they have heal abilities and are therefore healers and if you try to DPS you're a noob and need to l2p.[/sarcasm]

Yes, that would be so much fun.

#26 Bloodtau

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:49 PM

View PostKrazzar, on 02 February 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

So because some people try to force certain professions, which still doesn't force trinity play or builds, removing the trinity was pointless? Sorry, but at every point your logic doesn't match up. There aren't certain roles being forced, there aren't certain builds being forced, trinity play once you get in the dungeon isn't being forced, so at no point is the trinity being removed pointless, in fact it's operating quite well. People will always try to force what they think it right, that doesn't mean it's the only way to do things. Then, by your own admission, you think there are better class combinations so you are in favor of the trinity. I'll just take it a step further and assert you just want every dungeon run to go like clockwork regardless of who is playing. That reduces the game to a mechanical process and no longer fits the definition of a game.  Sorry, but no matter how much you want the trinity it isn't there. No luck farmer.


Actually, there are. Try again....

#27 Daesu

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:51 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 02 February 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

No, having roles simply means that the elitists actually have a concrete ground to stand on when they refuse less good players. What if I want to play profession x, that with the trinity would be focused on tanking. But Profession y is a much better tank, should I be forced to abandon profession x and level profession y instead just so that I can get into groups?

It is the same thing happening now, if you let x be ranger and y be mesmer.

#28 Lordkrall

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:53 PM

View PostDaesu, on 02 February 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

Isn't that already happening now if people are asking for specific professions?

Making warriors, guardians, and mesmers more overpowered already assigned them roles in the dungeon that these classes play much better than other classes.  You come back to the same thing.

Making certain professions "overpowered" != making other professions useless.
With the holy trinity you MUST have a specific class in order to complete content. In GW2 elitists WANT to have a specific class in order to do content. Big differents. Want != Must.



View PostBloodtau, on 02 February 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

Guru is also a minority. Take anything on here with a pinch of salt.

Of course, and yet I follow quite a few gaming forums and I have yet to see this massive outburst about how bad the system in GW2 is, so please, feel free to link that.

View PostDaesu, on 02 February 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

It is the same thing happening now, if you let x be ranger and y be mesmer.

Elitists will always exist, unless you remove all classes, all skills, all weapons and all levels.

The different thing is that you don't NEED a specific tank, or a specific DPS or so on.

#29 Daesu

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:57 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 02 February 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

Making certain professions "overpowered" != making other professions useless.
With the holy trinity you MUST have a specific class in order to complete content. In GW2 elitists WANT to have a specific class in order to do content. Big differents. Want != Must.

But that was the same argument when the trinity was around.  You don't need the trinity to clear content, but having it just makes it more efficient.  So now we have gone a full circle even without the old trinity, we have just found a new trinity (i.e. warrior, guardian, mesmer) to be more efficient.

Edited by Daesu, 02 February 2013 - 06:00 PM.


#30 Lordkrall

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 06:02 PM

View PostDaesu, on 02 February 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

But that was the same argument when the trinity was around.  You don't need the trinity to clear content, but having it just makes it more efficient.  So now we have gone a full circle even without the old trinity, we have just found a new trinity (i.e. warrior, guardian, mesmer) to be more efficient.

Yeah, good luck trying to complete the Watcher in Lord of the Rings Online without a healer, or the Twins in Barad Guldur without tanks.




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