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#1 Lilly32

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 06:09 AM

I cant figure out where I see more forum QQ, on the ranger forums or the engineer forums.  Usually QQ posts are just bad players that need to L2play so is that just the case?  Been trying to find a new alt and Engineer is the only thing I havent tried yet.  I did briefly try one but only used him for sPvP and did enjoy him but never played one outside of that.  How easy are they to level compared to the other professions?  Are they late bloomers like Mesmers or will they be fun even in early levels or do I have to wait until like level 60 to see if I love or hate it?  Also once I hit 80 are they good event farmers for Karma and drops/gold?

#2 Mr.Kotte

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 08:08 AM

The engineer is one of the best taggers out there for event farming in the orr. Basically all you really need is to either equip the flamethrower, or get the coated bullets trait and use pistols. Unfortunately, the engineer damage is inferior to say a warrior/mesmer group for dungeons. This is where most people get upset, especially for FoTM, since the only really good option for the higher levels is to go FT with Backpack Regenerator and the prec trait that gives you toughness and might and spec bunker..

I started my engineer on pre-release, and got him to lvl 80 in exactly 80 hours.

#3 Coren

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 08:20 AM

I've three 80s, an engineer (my main) a mesmer and a warrior. Among the three the engined is the most fun and most under rated. I wouldn't call them late bloomers, unless you compare them to warriors and guardians, in which case all other professions are late bloomers. Engineers can level rather quickly with the trait *speedy kits* to allow perma swiftness. Using bomb kit and a few elixirs you can wipe mobs quickly.

Endgame, you can easily tag mobs with pretty much any kit, but especially with the flamethrower.
For damage, I tend to prefer going conditions grenadeer,  but it's entirely viable to be something of a power/critical flamethrower or a tanky bomb kit.

Engineers are the most flexible profession in GW2 in my opinion, but people dismiss them because they are harder to master than something like a warrior or ranger which require little skill and thought.

#4 Mr.Kotte

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:53 AM

View PostCoren, on 04 February 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

Engineers are the most flexible profession in GW2 in my opinion, but people dismiss them because they are harder to master than something like a warrior or ranger which require little skill and thought.
I completely agree with most of what you say, but I think the main reason isnt that they're harder to master, I think it  is that the autoattack with an engineer specced glasscannon is 900 (pistol) and 1300 (rifle). With a warrior, the autoattack on greatsword or rifle is 2k+, when the warrior is specced tank. The warrior also have more armor, access to more weapons and (unimportant but still) better looking gear/legendaries.

What I lack in the engineer is the overall low damage. Every single skill just doesn't deal as much damage as I think it should. I see when farming Corrupted Lodestones a ranger/warrior/guardian/thief/elementalist 4 shotting a mob, while I specced glasscannon with bombs have to hit it for 9+ times. Its not fair! I don't care if I can resurrect someone with a potion every 120 second, or that I can place useless turrets, or that I can sacrifice utility to be able to swap weapons, I want my damage and I want it now! I'm telling mom..

Edited by Mr.Kotte, 04 February 2013 - 11:56 AM.


#5 Coren

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 12:22 PM

View PostMr.Kotte, on 04 February 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:


I completely agree with most of what you say, but I think the main reason isnt that they're harder to master, I think it  is that the autoattack with an engineer specced glasscannon is 900 (pistol) and 1300 (rifle). With a warrior, the autoattack on greatsword or rifle is 2k+, when the warrior is specced tank. The warrior also have more armor, access to more weapons and (unimportant but still) better looking gear/legendaries.

What I lack in the engineer is the overall low damage. Every single skill just doesn't deal as much damage as I think it should. I see when farming Corrupted Lodestones a ranger/warrior/guardian/thief/elementalist 4 shotting a mob, while I specced glasscannon with bombs have to hit it for 9+ times. Its not fair! I don't care if I can resurrect someone with a potion every 120 second, or that I can place useless turrets, or that I can sacrifice utility to be able to swap weapons, I want my damage and I want it now! I'm telling mom..

I haven't done the math, but as a conditions grenadeer, I can max 25 vulnerability and average 15-18 bleed stacks, not to mention poison and the occasional burn with pistol offhand. I've run quite a few dungeons like most of us have, and I'm proud to.say that in some occurrences, I actually took over the spot of.a.warrior or guardian because they couldn't take the punishment and thus didn't survive long enough to do damage.

Don't forget that warrior rifle is single target, where are most engineer skills are AoE.

I haven't found an other profession that can control entire groups as well as engineers, whether it's using bombs, grenades or FT (to some extent on that last one).

I always open up with freeze grenades, poison then shrapnel and normal.grenades on mobs, simply because it allows.us.to get great control over them. We basically pack enemies together, allowing team mates to do their stuff.

#6 MrForz

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 12:24 PM

View PostMr.Kotte, on 04 February 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

What I lack in the engineer is the overall low damage. Every single skill just doesn't deal as much damage as I think it should. I see when farming Corrupted Lodestones a ranger/warrior/guardian/thief/elementalist 4 shotting a mob, while I specced glasscannon with bombs have to hit it for 9+ times. Its not fair! I don't care if I can resurrect someone with a potion every 120 second, or that I can place useless turrets, or that I can sacrifice utility to be able to swap weapons, I want my damage and I want it now! I'm telling mom..

http://gw2skills.net...cZ4SwllLHXSuGWA

Your typical Static Discharge build; we may not have a strong, constant DPS (although 2k Rifle auto-attacks at extreme range remains something), but nobody can deny that our burst remains MASSIVE, and AOE. This build is WvW based but the built in survivability remains just fine in dungeons.

Infact, it would kind of scare me to see Engineers getting a raise in their direct damage output because before all we're solid, we survive, we have amongst the simpliest and best 'Oh sh...' abilities, we adapt.

#7 Calebrus

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 12:54 PM

If you do try Engy, make sure you try out all of the kits extensively to see what you like.
I played an Engy in beta and absolutely hated it.  I gave it a shot again after launch and really delved into the kits, and it became my favorite profession.
And if you plan it out you can create a build that can literally switch roles (DPS/support/control) in a matter of seconds by doing nothing more than changing your weapon, major traits and utility skills.  No trait reset needed.  You can even spec to do more than one of them at a time if you want.

Edited by Calebrus, 04 February 2013 - 01:11 PM.


#8 Mr.Kotte

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 12:58 PM

This is what I think, I guess uncensored, so I apologize if I make anyone upset, this isnt my intention ever :). Might be real confusing reading through everything aswell, sorry...

View PostCoren, on 04 February 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

I haven't done the math, but as a conditions grenadeer, I can max 25 vulnerability and average 15-18 bleed stacks, not to mention poison and the occasional burn with pistol offhand.
I'm aware of the 25 vuln and bleed stacks, but how many grenade salves do you have to toss before this gets achived? 5? 8? 10? 12?

View PostMrForz, on 04 February 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:


http://gw2skills.net...cZ4SwllLHXSuGWA

Your typical Static Discharge build; we may not have a strong, constant DPS (although 2k Rifle auto-attacks at extreme range remains something), but nobody can deny that our burst remains MASSIVE, and AOE. This build is WvW based but the built in survivability remains just fine in dungeons.
You're sacrificing one utility slot just to get a low rechage tool belt skill, I just don't see how thats a good thing :S
Also, Static Discharge isnt AoE since it doesn't affect an area, it just hits 3 (4?) enemies. Also, like you said, this is for WvW primarily and survivability for me isnt an issue. My issue is with damage.

What I didn't make clear in my last post is that I'm well aware that the Engineer can do BURST damage (just look at the 100nades build circling), but this doesn't change the fact that all other classes in the same armor level (medium) tops our damage easily with AUTO attack!
In my opinion, the only real good auto attack the engineer have is the pistol auto attack but ONLY in special situations, such as when its traited with coated bullets and you're making each shot hit 4+ enemies (or into a wall with the enemy close to the wall). The ranged rifle auto attack is weak (comparison: warrior, ranger), the knockback is weak since it also knocks you back (comparison: warriors "rifle butt"), the jump shot has a almost 2 second lag (1s on activation, 1s on landing) making it painfully dull.


Like I said earlier, what I find really difficult is that I can spec however I want and I will always be outdamaged by almost any other class!

#9 Calebrus

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 01:16 PM

View PostMr.Kotte, on 04 February 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Like I said earlier, what I find really difficult is that I can spec however I want and I will always be outdamaged by almost any other class!
The fact that every other profession seems boring and mundane to me, while the Engineer is actually fun to play, easily offsets this for me.  I don't mind if it takes me a tiny bit longer to kill things because I'm having fun doing it.  The same cannot be said of any other profession.  That includes Ele as well.  Having fun playing Ele (or any other profession) isn't about decision making, it's about rotations, and that is the painfully dull part for me.
With the plethora of skills available on an Engy with a couple of kits (and effectively no weapon swap cooldown) an Engy actually has options.

Edited by Calebrus, 04 February 2013 - 01:20 PM.


#10 matsif

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 01:43 PM

View PostMr.Kotte, on 04 February 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

I'm aware of the 25 vuln and bleed stacks, but how many grenade salves do you have to toss before this gets achived? 5? 8? 10? 12?

assuming sigil of earth and shrapnel traited (standard for condition nade engy), depending on the proc of shrapnel it's around 5-8 throws normally for around 20 stacks of bleed and vuln.  As coren mentioned they are basically stuck there if you lead with freeze grenade, and having a GS guardian to ball up mobs makes it even more effective.

Quote

Like I said earlier, what I find really difficult is that I can spec however I want and I will always be outdamaged by almost any other class!

Engy isn't supposed to be the best damage class in the game, it's meant to be the wild card class that can do anything, but specialize in just about nothing (condition grenades is still probably something that is a specialty to the class now).  That static discharge build shown above is a huge burst and not a bad build.  The condition grenades are quite possibly and imo the best bleed spam in the game (I have every major bleed built class at 80 and have tried them all).  You can make a really tanky build with the flamethrower and elixir gun.  You can make a frontline supporter that does good damage with a bomb heals build.  

The engineer is for players who enjoy having tons of options in their pocket at all times.  They can fill just about any role good enough, but they aren't perfect at anything (except, again, bleed spam grenades).  If you prefer easy faceroll DPS (sustained or burst), engy really isn't for you.  If you prefer playing with a brain and making decisions based around the fight at hand, engy is absolutely awesome and the most fun class in the game.

#11 Thaddeuz

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 02:03 PM

View PostMr.Kotte, on 04 February 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

I'm aware of the 25 vuln and bleed stacks, but how many grenade salves do you have to toss before this gets achived? 5? 8? 10? 12?

Ya because the other profession can stack 25 vulnerbility and bleed on 1 or 2 attack??. It still 25% less defense and more damage for everyone in the group.

View PostMr.Kotte, on 04 February 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Like I said earlier, what I find really difficult is that I can spec however I want and I will always be outdamaged by almost any other class!

I don't know that you do wrong man. But a good grenade engineer is hard to beat in AoE damage. I dot about 1 to 1.5k in direct damage against each mobs, and that doesn't count my condition damage. My bleed alone does about 2.5k each second. (Of course i need to get there, not optimal against low hp mobs, but against every mobs in high level fractal this rock).

Of course, I you have a grenade engineer in your group, you better not have any other condition damage player.

#12 Coren

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 02:03 PM

View Postmatsif, on 04 February 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:



assuming sigil of earth and shrapnel traited (standard for condition nade engy), depending on the proc of shrapnel it's around 5-8 throws normally for around 20 stacks of bleed and vuln.  As coren mentioned they are basically stuck there if you lead with freeze grenade, and having a GS guardian to ball up mobs makes it even more effective.



Engy isn't supposed to be the best damage class in the game, it's meant to be the wild card class that can do anything, but specialize in just about nothing (condition grenades is still probably something that is a specialty to the class now).  That static discharge build shown above is a huge burst and not a bad build.  The condition grenades are quite possibly and imo the best bleed spam in the game (I have every major bleed built class at 80 and have tried them all).  You can make a really tanky build with the flamethrower and elixir gun.  You can make a frontline supporter that does good damage with a bomb heals build.  

The engineer is for players who enjoy having tons of options in their pocket at all times.  They can fill just about any role good enough, but they aren't perfect at anything (except, again, bleed spam grenades).  If you prefer easy faceroll DPS (sustained or burst), engy really isn't for you.  If you prefer playing with a brain and making decisions based around the fight at hand, engy is absolutely awesome and the most fun class in the game.

I never used bombs for healing but more for tanking, and tend to think it's a very viable kit for it. It's true grenades are like a default kit for usefulness but bombs have their place too:).

As you said, engineers aren't made to be great at something, but good at everything, like what the ritualist used to be in GW1 before spirit spam became the default build.

#13 Nabuko Darayon

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 02:06 PM

Engies aren't bad, just not for everyone.

Edited by Nabuko Darayon, 04 February 2013 - 02:06 PM.


#14 GammaWolf

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 03:43 PM

Now that weapon stats apply to kits grenade engineer is great again.

I have been running with full zerker set 30-10-0-0-30 and with ~110 critical damage nades hit for a massive amount of constant AoE damage that can easily stack high vulnerability. Even the auto attack hits for near 900x3 while 2 and 4 hit much harder and grenade barrage cant hit for 8x 1000+.

Everyone compares to warrior, but hunderp blades is meele and has a cooldown while nades are constant extreme range AOE that spreads bleed, vulnerability, poison, burn (33% on crit trait), chill and blindness. Add in immobilize net shot on rifle and you have every single condition except confusion, cripple (can get through traits), fear and weakness (can get through blast in poison field).

I am still not entirely sure whether zerker gear crit damage or rabid gear condition damage is the way to go. For the time being I prefer crit damage even though it has much less defense because I prefer the high rifle auto attacks and it does not rely on bleed stacks to do damage.

Edited by GammaWolf, 04 February 2013 - 03:44 PM.


#15 coglin

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 12:46 AM

View PostLilly32, on 04 February 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

Are engineers really that bad off?

The straight answer. Nope. Not bad off.

If you read all of the QQing, crying and whinning, you will realize everyone is complaining because they are not warriors in PvE or thieves in WvW.

Most of peoples complaints are not even logically valid, but more of an attempt to lobby a rally to rebuilding the profession to suit their personal wants. There are some obvious imbalance issues in certain specific aspects, and some bugs. As a whole though, most players problems appear to be that engineers are not something else.

#16 TGIFrisbie

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:06 AM

Sometimes the QQ is legit.  If you can't handle it don't read it.

Not defending any QQ but I will say this game has some legitimate issues and peeps that complain about the complaints generally are niche players who crutch on one build and think the world is just fine cause that one build works or half works.  Anet hasn't started selling CLUES in the BLTC yet, some just don't get it.

#17 Coren

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:53 AM

View PostTGIFrisbie, on 05 February 2013 - 01:06 AM, said:

Sometimes the QQ is legit.  If you can't handle it don't read it.

Not defending any QQ but I will say this game has some legitimate issues and peeps that complain about the complaints generally are niche players who crutch on one build and think the world is just fine cause that one build works or half works.  Anet hasn't started selling CLUES in the BLTC yet, some just don't get it.

As previously stated, most QQing is from people who want engineers to be something they aren't meant to be. They desperately want them to be as straightforward and obvious to use like warriors, guardians and rangers. As it is, engineers are niche fillers, good at everything, great at nothing, except maybe AoE, because we do have an insane amount of AoE possibilities.

#18 Isti

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:09 PM

View PostCoren, on 05 February 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

As previously stated, most QQing is from people who want engineers to be something they aren't meant to be. They desperately want them to be as straightforward and obvious to use like warriors, guardians and rangers. As it is, engineers are niche fillers, good at everything, great at nothing, except maybe AoE, because we do have an insane amount of AoE possibilities.

I think a primary cause of (legit) engineer QQ is that nobody, including the devs, has any idea what engineers ARE meant to be.  It's already been stated that we take a pretty stiff damage penalty in exchange for our versatility.  Okay, fine.  But what does our versatility buy us?  Sure, I can build as a debuffer/condition damager, or I can build as a high-survivability tank.  But so can a Necromancer, and a Necro is arguably better at both roles than an engineer.  Furthermore, if I build to be a tank, my damage (condition or direct) is pretty lousy.  If I build for damage, my survivability is poor.  Sure, engineers have a lot of options, but we have to get out of combat, change specs, change gear, and change skills just like everybody else to take advantage of those options.  Where's that versatility advantage that we're supposed to have?  I have a Guardian that is geared almost as well as my Engineer.  I can build her for group support, and her damage is about a hundred miles better than a support-specced engi while still being able to run circles around such an engi in terms of group utility.

I guess what I'm getting at here is that not everybody is pouting about having low damage.  What I find worrying is that we're trading off an awful lot and not seeming to get anything meaningful back in exchange.

#19 Kovares

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:43 PM

View PostIsti, on 05 February 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

I think a primary cause of (legit) engineer QQ is that nobody, including the devs, has any idea what engineers ARE meant to be.  It's already been stated that we take a pretty stiff damage penalty in exchange for our versatility.  Okay, fine.  But what does our versatility buy us?  Sure, I can build as a debuffer/condition damager, or I can build as a high-survivability tank.  But so can a Necromancer, and a Necro is arguably better at both roles than an engineer.  Furthermore, if I build to be a tank, my damage (condition or direct) is pretty lousy.  If I build for damage, my survivability is poor.  Sure, engineers have a lot of options, but we have to get out of combat, change specs, change gear, and change skills just like everybody else to take advantage of those options.  Where's that versatility advantage that we're supposed to have?  I have a Guardian that is geared almost as well as my Engineer.  I can build her for group support, and her damage is about a hundred miles better than a support-specced engi while still being able to run circles around such an engi in terms of group utility.

I guess what I'm getting at here is that not everybody is pouting about having low damage.  What I find worrying is that we're trading off an awful lot and not seeming to get anything meaningful back in exchange.

Pretty much this. Engies do have to specialize as much as everyone else if they want to be effective at what you do. Condition damage skills are more or less worthless on a direct damage build and vice versa, and engies do have to trait kits as heavily as other classes trait their weapons and get nothing in return. If I want to use grenades, I have to trait them; If I want to use flamethrower, I trait it. Sure I can swap them around, but why would I want to do so in the first place?

Edit: Also, concerning condition builds, yes, you can build bleed stacks to pretty good numbers now - but they do come with a realitvely long build up phase that will really hurst dps in many encounters.

Edited by Kovares, 05 February 2013 - 06:49 PM.


#20 Coren

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:11 PM

I'll have to post my build.sometime when I'm not.about to.go.to bed, but what I regularly run is.a condition spammer and I rarely go down because I keep.a balance of.condition removal and life.saving skills along with my damage.

Maybe engineers.aren't *there* yet, but they certainly heading in a direction I like.

#21 FoxBat

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 10:23 PM

View PostIsti, on 05 February 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

Sure, I can build as a debuffer/condition damager, or I can build as a high-survivability tank.  But so can a Necromancer, and a Necro is arguably better at both roles than an engineer.

Do you want to argue this?

Condi necros get epidemic and condi engies get vulnerability. So it's basically adds/trash versus bosses.

As for tanks, I've never heard of a necro bunker. That should say enough right there.

And yes, engies are inferior to guardians. But being inferior to the top three dungeon classes is something most classes have to put up with.

Personally I'd just like to see thrown elixirs suck less for now. Spamming boons is in our class description, how about making it a reality too.

Edited by FoxBat, 05 February 2013 - 10:26 PM.


#22 Coren

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 02:44 PM

View PostFoxBat, on 05 February 2013 - 10:23 PM, said:



Do you want to argue this?

Condi necros get epidemic and condi engies get vulnerability. So it's basically adds/trash versus bosses.

As for tanks, I've never heard of a necro bunker. That should say enough right there.

And yes, engies are inferior to guardians. But being inferior to the top three dungeon classes is something most classes have to put up with.

Personally I'd just like to see thrown elixirs suck less for now. Spamming boons is in our class description, how about making it a reality too.

I mostly agree with you, especially on the elixir.front. I'm an elixir maniac, and use them a lot to remove conditions from myself and others. But I've come to realize I toss elixirs more to remove conditions than to give boons, which in itself is wrong.

Don't get me wrong, the randomness and the boons themselves are fine...except maybe toss elixir s. All other random boons are useful in combat no matter what situation, except toss elixir s. Can someone please tell me of a situation where invisibility and stability would be both useful during combat?



#23 Thaddeuz

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 03:42 PM

View PostCoren, on 06 February 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

Can someone please tell me of a situation where invisibility and stability would be both useful during combat?

I can't and this exasperate me. It seem that, when i need invis i get stability and when i need stability i got invis. These are two emergency boons/state and this is just stupid to get them randomly.

#24 Coren

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 04:05 PM

View PostThaddeuz, on 06 February 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:



I can't and this exasperate me. It seem that, when i need invis i get stability and when i need stability i got invis. These are two emergency boons/state and this is just stupid to get them randomly.

I have similar experiences with getting the wrong boon. As two random boons I'd suggest either stability or aegis. Stealth offers the least for us.

#25 Intoxicated

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 04:43 PM

View PostCoren, on 06 February 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

... Can someone please tell me of a situation where invisibility and stability would be both useful during combat?

In PvP both would allow you to Stomp someone

#26 Coren

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:40 PM

View PostIntoxicated, on 06 February 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:



In PvP both would allow you to Stomp someone

I use élixir s normally for that. 4 seconds of freedom to finish off.

#27 Phineas Poe

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:43 AM

View PostTGIFrisbie, on 05 February 2013 - 01:06 AM, said:

Sometimes the QQ is legit.  If you can't handle it don't read it.

Not defending any QQ but I will say this game has some legitimate issues and peeps that complain about the complaints generally are niche players who crutch on one build and think the world is just fine cause that one build works or half works.  Anet hasn't started selling CLUES in the BLTC yet, some just don't get it.

Excuse my ignorance, but what are these "legitimate issues?"

The biggest complaints about our class have always been about sigils and weapon stats not being calculated into our output.

Now they are.

I'm pretty much 99% satisfied with where the Engineer is at right now, save maybe a buff to turrets.

Edited by Phineas_Poe, 07 February 2013 - 06:49 AM.


#28 Phineas Poe

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:59 AM

View PostIsti, on 05 February 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

But what does our versatility buy us?  Sure, I can build as a debuffer/condition damager, or I can build as a high-survivability tank.  But so can a Necromancer, and a Necro is arguably better at both roles than an engineer.  Furthermore, if I build to be a tank, my damage (condition or direct) is pretty lousy.  If I build for damage, my survivability is poor.

Why would your survivability be poor?


1.  Grenades can be specced to be thrown from a mile away.

2.  Between Invigorating Speed and Infused Precision, we can pretty much have Swiftness and Vigor up 100% in combat. How many other classes can say that? Through traits? With only 10 points in each respective tree? We're dodging machines, and can be constructed that way with pretty much any build variant.



3.  And how many other classes can say they have Kit Refinement which grants a regen and condition removal pool upon swapping to Elixir Gun, another when you use Super Elixir, and Fumigate to remove the conditions of your teammates? That's three party condition removals in one utility slot.

And it costs only 10 points in Tools.



4.  Net Turret additionally provides 3 snares in one slot.



5.  "Built like a tank" with P/V/T gear and Emeralds, I have a near 45% crit rate and close to 3000 Attack with my FT/EG build. That is not lousy damage, especially when 20+ stacks of Might and near-perma Fury (with food) is placed on top of that. I'm not topping the charts, but my damage is definitely not bad. And I'm usually  one of the the last ones standing next to my tank, having to frantically toss my Elixir Rs at those other classes who obsess over their DPS.

Edited by Phineas_Poe, 07 February 2013 - 07:04 AM.


#29 Coren

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:14 PM

View PostIsti, on 05 February 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:



I think a primary cause of (legit) engineer QQ is that nobody, including the devs, has any idea what engineers ARE meant to be.  It's already been stated that we take a pretty stiff damage penalty in exchange for our versatility.  Okay, fine.  But what does our versatility buy us?  Sure, I can build as a debuffer/condition damager, or I can build as a high-survivability tank.  But so can a Necromancer, and a Necro is arguably better at both roles than an engineer.  Furthermore, if I build to be a tank, my damage (condition or direct) is pretty lousy.  If I build for damage, my survivability is poor.  Sure, engineers have a lot of options, but we have to get out of combat, change specs, change gear, and change skills just like everybody else to take advantage of those options.  Where's that versatility advantage that we're supposed to have?  I have a Guardian that is geared almost as well as my Engineer.  I can build her for group support, and her damage is about a hundred miles better than a support-specced engi while still being able to run circles around such an engi in terms of group utility.

I guess what I'm getting at here is that not everybody is pouting about having low damage.  What I find worrying is that we're trading off an awful lot and not seeming to get anything meaningful back in exchange.

Please explain to me how an engineer has poor survivability? Every time I run.fractals or dungeons, and the occasional WvW, I.see so called high survival professions like warriors, guardians and rangers go down much more than me (in most dungeons I rarely go down unless bad luck is.involved) while keeping my damage contribution up.

It's down once again to how you play.

#30 Ottoman

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:37 PM

View PostPhineas_Poe, on 07 February 2013 - 06:59 AM, said:

Why would your survivability be poor?


1.  Grenades can be specced to be thrown from a mile away.

2.  Between Invigorating Speed and Infused Precision, we can pretty much have Swiftness and Vigor up 100% in combat. How many other classes can say that? Through traits? With only 10 points in each respective tree? We're dodging machines, and can be constructed that way with pretty much any build variant.



3.  And how many other classes can say they have Kit Refinement which grants a regen and condition removal pool upon swapping to Elixir Gun, another when you use Super Elixir, and Fumigate to remove the conditions of your teammates? That's three party condition removals in one utility slot.

And it costs only 10 points in Tools.



4.  Net Turret additionally provides 3 snares in one slot.



5.  "Built like a tank" with P/V/T gear and Emeralds, I have a near 45% crit rate and close to 3000 Attack with my FT/EG build. That is not lousy damage, especially when 20+ stacks of Might and near-perma Fury (with food) is placed on top of that. I'm not topping the charts, but my damage is definitely not bad. And I'm usually  one of the the last ones standing next to my tank, having to frantically toss my Elixir Rs at those other classes who obsess over their DPS.

Build link plz! :P (I just got my hands on a full set of PVT gear)




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