75 replies to this topic

[Sword Hammer Axe]

I had great hope for Engi at first with how the utility skills functioned. But I quickly learned that while Flamethrower is awesome, it's a terrible damage dealer and the skills are horrible, especially considering how close and precise you have to be with it.

Around level 40 I started having a lot of fun though. This lasted for about 25 levels. I really enjoyed the elite skills and how this particular profession could stay alive through just about anything while turrets destroyed your enemies and your kits gave you the upper hand in any fight.

Then came the higher levels and level 80. I now know exactly when I like Engineer and when I loathe it. It... is... HORRIBLE in solo situations. The kits are terrible damage dealers, even this Grenade Kit that people so love (yes, you can stack conditions with it and yes the damage is fine, but because you can't auto fire and have to aim every damn attack, you have to actively mod your character or limit yourself completely while fighting with it. My opinion is that if you have to add extras to enjoy it, it's not enjoyable in itself). Underwater Grenade Kit is fantastic, so that's where the solo Engineer shines, but seeing as most people despise underwater combat, this isn't enough for me to recommend it. Besides, the fact that it relies so heavily on kits means that you're stuck with the same dull looking backpack for most of the game, limiting your ability to customize your character tremendously.
It is, however, incredible when playing with others. The Engineer's support skills and elites makes it a lot of fun to run with in dungeons and the like. As soon as you can rely on others to deal some damage it becomes much more fun to be that backpacking Engineer, so solely for that I can say Engineer is worth it.

But my general conclusion with it is: Never make an Engineer your only character. Don't even make it your main. You will not have fun in more than half of the game. I know a bunch of people who simply stopped playing for weeks or altogether because they found the gameplay to be incredibly dull, and in almost every case that I know of they had Engineers for their first characters. Engineers can be lots of fun, but only in certain situations.

[Phineas Poe]

Sword Hammer Axe, on 07 February 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

I know a bunch of people who simply stopped playing for weeks or altogether because they found the gameplay to be incredibly dull, and in almost every case that I know of they had Engineers for their first characters. Engineers can be lots of fun, but only in certain situations.

It's really interesting that you say that the Engineer is dull. I feel like with how varied our kit options are, (to me) it's the most enjoyable class in the game. I just always inevitably get bored playing Ranger, Warrior, Guardian, or whatever, simply because their roles are a lot more static than the Engineer's is.

I'm surprised you say that someone will not have fun "in more than half of the game."  I have perma Swiftness for WvW, I have my support kits for dungeons, I have Static Discharge for sPvP, and I have my Flamethrower for farming groups. There isn't a single part of the game I don't enjoy my Engineer in.

They may not be the best class in the game or anything, but the Engineer is a fairly varied role with more than one viable build. I especially think it's funny that you say that dungeons is the one area that the Engineer shines, because for the longest time everyone complained on here that we were fairly useless in "end-game PvE" (yet useful everywhere else).

Ottoman, on 07 February 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

Build link plz! (I just got my hands on a full set of PVT gear)

Check out this thread for all the details.  But for the sake of saying something here, I run a FT/EG build with a 0/30/0/20/20 split in P/V/T gear with Altruism runes and Emerald jewelry. I also have a set of Berserker's and Ruby jewelry when more DPS is needed in groups. Sometimes I'll run 0/30/0/30/10 or 0/30/0/25/15, too.

Edited by Phineas_Poe, 07 February 2013 - 02:24 PM.

[FoxBat]

The open world is so easy at level 80 & max gear, I don't see how the weakest crap build in the game could even be a lability for solo play. Maybe people love mindless facerolling that much? Good thing there's plenty of professions to accomodate that.

For me, boring is AFKing while a hammer symbol destroys everything, or spamming most of my GS skills on recharge. Not that I 3 shot things instead of 2.

Edited by FoxBat, 07 February 2013 - 02:33 PM.

[Phineas Poe]

FoxBat, on 07 February 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

The open world is so easy at level 80 & max gear, I don't see how the weakest crap build in the game could even be a lability for solo play. Maybe people love mindless facerolling that much? Good thing there's plenty of professions to accomodate that.

Yeah I tend to feel the same way, even without exotics.

I never had any problems pre-patch rolling through Orr and Frostgorge, even back when I was running a rare set of Knight's when I first hit level 80. I actually think that Engineer is one of the best classes in the game for exploration and solo play with perma Swiftness and Vigor.

Plus, we have so many knockbacks and leaps at our disposal we can get out of most situations if we have to. Between Elixir Gun's Acid Bomb, Rocket Boots, and the Rifle's Overcharged Shot, you can put more than 1600 range distance between yourself and your target. (2000+ if you use Overcharged Shot first.)

And then there's Air Blast, Net Shot, and all the other snare/crippling skills we have. I never had much issues surviving as an Engineer, especially since just swapping to Elixir Gun and then shooting my Rifle removes all my conditions.

I'll agree to the QQs that our damage isn't the best.

But our survivability has always been perfectly fine regardless of what build you're running.

Edited by Phineas_Poe, 07 February 2013 - 03:18 PM.

[Fallanx]

this class is a total failure.

[matsif]

Fallanx, on 07 February 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

this class is a total failure.

much can be boiled down to user error

[Thaddeuz]

Fallanx, on 07 February 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

this class is a total failure.

Wow what a useless comment without any depth (and the guy pay per month to be a premium wow again).

[Veji]

I played it to level 12, got tired of constantly getting killed by quest mobs and then re-rolled a mesmer and a warrior, whcih i still die on, but nearly as much.  Lowbie engineers dont have enough damage compared to a warrior or mesmer.

[Dirame]

I haven't played much of the Engi in PvE but in PvP? The class is cracalaking! I always feel like the engineer can take on anything if people just learn to play it right. If the engineer had portal or even the speed of a thief, it would be in more teams and not just Team Paradigm's.

In fact I feel like the Engi could give a condition removing Ele a run for his money. Just today I fought one and until his friends came around, I was pretty much winning the fight because there's only so much condition removal you can pack when someone is constantly stacking 5 different conditions on you.

For me it's all about the player not the game when it comes to engies.

[Phineas Poe]

Veji, on 07 February 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:

I played it to level 12, got tired of constantly getting killed by quest mobs and then re-rolled a mesmer and a warrior, whcih i still die on, but nearly as much.  Lowbie engineers dont have enough damage compared to a warrior or mesmer.

Warrior is a very powerful class early on because Healing Signet, like Ranger's Troll Unguent, is stupid-good at low levels.

[Mr.Kotte]

I would like to partially retract my statement that Engineers have a poor damage output. I fiddled around with some builds today and built one completely around critical hit strike chance and fury. I managed to get up to 109% but settled for 106%. With some adjustments I am now able to dish out >1.5k with rifle autoattack on lvl80 mobs with spikes of >5k (per attack) as well as applying up to 15 stacks of vulnerability within 2 seconds. Getting the superior sigil of strength would be a fantastic addition for this build if you were to go FT or P/P (or P/S) in PvE or WvW I guess... Here's the build, I call it "The 106%". Skill 9 is optional (depends on what you're doing with the build as in PvE/PvP/WvW etc). If you wanna you can easily change the necklace for a Berserker one to get critical hit chance down to 101%.


Such a glasscannon now though lol, I only have SRD for defense. This build is brutally spammy spammy , I should warn you lol

Edited by Mr.Kotte, 08 February 2013 - 08:16 PM.

[lacunario]

Mr.Kotte, on 08 February 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

I would like to partially retract my statement that Engineers have a poor damage output. I fiddled around with some builds today and built one completely around critical hit strike chance and fury. I managed to get up to 109% but settled for 106%. With some adjustments I am now able to dish out >1.5k with rifle autoattack on lvl80 mobs with spikes of >5k (per attack) as well as applying up to 15 stacks of vulnerability within 2 seconds. Getting the superior sigil of strength would be a fantastic addition for this build if you were to go FT or P/P (or P/S) in PvE or WvW I guess... Here's the build, I call it "The 106%". Skill 9 is optional (depends on what you're doing with the build as in PvE/PvP/WvW etc). If you wanna you can easily change the necklace for a Berserker one to get critical hit chance down to 101%.


Such a glasscannon now though lol, I only have SRD for defense. This build is brutally spammy spammy , I should warn you lol

I basically have the same skills with some differences and i find it bursty aswell!
I got 10 in explo instead of alchemy for Incendiary powder and in Tools i use Scope as second tier (yep it's when you stand still but it's basically 90% of the time you open on a mob/group, at least for my playstyle).
7-8-9 are different from yours, as i use the Battering ram and Tool Kit mainly because of their toolbelt skills for even more burst (paired with Static Discharge from traits).
I got full bers gear (runed with 6/6 divinity) with Power/vit/crit% jewels (with Ruby gems) 5% crit chance on rifle and i only reach 43% critchance (even tho i think the 5% from rifle is not showed in the char panel? switching from 5% dmg to 5% critchance kept showing 43% :puzzled:).

It's a fun and fast killing build btw!

THIS is the build btw, you can swap grenade kit for Elixir B withouth changing the effectiveness of the build (actually even improving it )

Edited by lacunario, 08 February 2013 - 08:57 PM.

[Mr.Kotte]

lacunario, on 08 February 2013 - 08:51 PM, said:

I got full bers gear (runed with 6/6 divinity) with Power/vit/crit% jewels (with Ruby gems) 5% crit chance on rifle and i only reach 43% critchance (even tho i think the 5% from rifle is not showed in the char panel? switching from 5% dmg to 5% critchance kept showing 43% :puzzled:).

Ah but I'm using Rampager stats, not Berserker! With full Rampager stats/jewels etc etc you should reach 86% without Fury. When you start maintaining Fury, you'll get another 20%. 86+20 = 106%. I also decided not to get the Scope trait for maneuverability in the battlefield. You should use the Speedy Kits trait as much as possible which means not standing still

And yes, the +5% crit chance does NOT show up in the panel ingame, but it is there!

As for swapping to Grenade Kit, I wouldn't recommend it. Since you don't have the tier 3 explosives trait unlocked, you won't benefit from the triple grenade toss, making it not very effective.

[lacunario]

Mr.Kotte, on 08 February 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

Ah but I'm using Rampager stats, not Berserker! With full Rampager stats/jewels etc etc you should reach 86% without Fury. When you start maintaining Fury, you'll get another 20%. 86+20 = 106%. I also decided not to get the Scope trait for maneuverability in the battlefield. You should use the Speedy Kits trait as much as possible which means not standing still

Oh ok thanks a lot!

Mr.Kotte, on 08 February 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

And yes, the +5% crit chance does NOT show up in the panel ingame, but it is there!

Good to know, thought i miscalculated and wasted money

Mr.Kotte, on 08 February 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

As for swapping to Grenade Kit, I wouldn't recommend it. Since you don't have the tier 3 explosives trait unlocked, you won't benefit from the triple grenade toss, making it not very effective.

Yep atm i'm using basically only the toolbelt skill from grenade kit, in those cases when i aggro 4+ mobs ..

[Mr.Kotte]

Mr.Kotte, on 08 February 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

I would like to partially retract my statement that Engineers have a poor damage output. I fiddled around with some builds today and built one completely around critical hit strike chance and fury. I managed to get up to 109% but settled for 106%. With some adjustments I am now able to dish out >1.5k with rifle autoattack on lvl80 mobs with spikes of >5k (per attack) as well as applying up to 15 stacks of vulnerability within 2 seconds. Getting the superior sigil of strength would be a fantastic addition for this build if you were to go FT or P/P (or P/S) in PvE or WvW I guess... Here's the build, I call it "The 106%". Skill 9 is optional (depends on what you're doing with the build as in PvE/PvP/WvW etc). If you wanna you can easily change the necklace for a Berserker one to get critical hit chance down to 101%.

Quoting myself to correct me:
Replacing two rampager rings with berserker rings will get you another 10% critical hit damage AND more power. This increases the "base" damage from 3767,4 to 4277,2, which is an increase with roughly 500! Do this! Also, dammit, now I have to rename it to "The 101%", the 106 sounded much cooler...

Edited by Mr.Kotte, 08 February 2013 - 09:37 PM.

[Sword Hammer Axe]

Phineas_Poe, on 07 February 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

It's really interesting that you say that the Engineer is dull. I feel like with how varied our kit options are, (to me) it's the most enjoyable class in the game. I just always inevitably get bored playing Ranger, Warrior, Guardian, or whatever, simply because their roles are a lot more static than the Engineer's is.

I'm surprised you say that someone will not have fun "in more than half of the game."  I have perma Swiftness for WvW, I have my support kits for dungeons, I have Static Discharge for sPvP, and I have my Flamethrower for farming groups. There isn't a single part of the game I don't enjoy my Engineer in.

They may not be the best class in the game or anything, but the Engineer is a fairly varied role with more than one viable build. I especially think it's funny that you say that dungeons is the one area that the Engineer shines, because for the longest time everyone complained on here that we were fairly useless in "end-game PvE" (yet useful everywhere else).

Well, it's of course my personal opinion (and some people I chat with), so of course other people's experiences can differ. But generally I will still say the same. Engineers take ages to kill even the simplest mobs (especially in Orr), require specialized settings to play the most popular builds efficiently (which imo is a bad thing), they have extremely limited weaponry (kits can be called variation, but I find that the lack of customization to turn me off running around with a flamethrower or a grenade kit or whatever), I find the Engineer's roles to be way too static (apparently, in direct opposition with your opinion), and I find it to be a silly class (which I really loved at first, but found dull when you got used to it, like how you slap people with a wrench or the Rifle Turret looks like a meat grinder).

As I mentioned there are of course parts I love about it. I dislike Engineer the most of all the professions, but I still have all 8 professions at level 80. Why that is? Because even though I can only enjoy Engineer in half the game, I truly enjoy that half, and usually prefer bringing the Engineer there. Something I think Arenanet did very well was design the professions so all could have something they're great at and something they're terrible at (though of course it's not 100% balanced). For instance, when it comes to running AC I love bringing my Engineer, but I dislike bringing my Thief. When it comes to running around in Orr I hate bringing my Engineer, but love bringing my Thief. Then there are things like Fractals where I'd never bring either, but for instance my Warrior or Mesmer shines in those and so on. My experience is just that Engineer is much too limited especially damagewise for it to be something I'd vote for as a main.

[Nyrath]

The Engineer is really fun proffesion, the only problem is that they start to shine at 30-40 level like Mesmers. On early levels they appear to be quite dull because of lack of weapon choice. At least in my opinion.

I leveled my Engineer from 1 to 80 by maxing out all the crafting professions. Since I really like crafting in GW2, I considered it quite fun. However, I needed like 20 gold for that.

[Xsiriss]

Most QQ is actually from the fact anet have no idea what to do with the engi. In their previous PR bs class 'philosophy' Engi boiled down to a less potent version of an Ele. The problem is that traits are plain awful (Acidic Coating, Adrenal Implants etc.) and lack synergy, whilst kits are still fairly weak unless heavily spec'd into thus pinholing you into the 3 most viable builds of: Static Discharge, Tankcat, 100Nades. Furthermore the whole mechanic of elixirs is frankly annoying, random effects are not good and should either be selectable or conditional (eg. protection from Exlixir H if <XX% health) whilst throwing them is clumsy and hard to do mid fight, otherwise their effects are purely for self benefit. I'd also like to mention that I'm one of those that feels like some of the Warrior rifle skills should be given to the Engi or at least that they should be given the opportunity to customise rifle/pistol skills for an emphasis on distance, close ranged or conditions. Turrets aren't worth any breath, they're either going to be overpowered and lazy mode skills or the trash they are

Sure they're not weak and do bring a lot of versatility, but a 'good' Ele will always trump a 'good' Engi (PvP and PvE). You do a similar amount of button mashing and hotkeying but the effects are noticeably more meh whilst having the disadvantage of the previously mentioned annoyances.

[Coren]

Sorry but engineer can be your main, in the same way ritualists in GW1 could be. Yes, solo they aren't are good as... Warrior, yet again, in PvE anyway. Face an competent engineer vs a competent warrior, I know where my money is, it's with the gap closer and conditions machine.

Engineers are supposed to be working with others, and they do so extremely well. I was never refused in parties, whether in fractals or dungeons. Play them well and people.will know.they are just as good as any profession.

[syrin]

Funny I soloed my engie with np at all. And for those that say an elementalist always trumps an engie I never see people grouped around the elementalist during dragon fights but my engineer always has at least 5 or 6 groupies surrounding me:). My hubby was co pletely against engineers from the videos, got him to try one and now he's hooked. Swears it's the funnest class he's tried yet. He doesn't get to play much and usually has a horrible time leveling, just started him this weekend and already almost 20.

[Coren]

syrin, on 11 February 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

Funny I soloed my engie with np at all. And for those that say an elementalist always trumps an engie I never see people grouped around the elementalist during dragon fights but my engineer always has at least 5 or 6 groupies surrounding me:). My hubby was co pletely against engineers from the videos, got him to try one and now he's hooked. Swears it's the funnest class he's tried yet. He doesn't get to play much and usually has a horrible time leveling, just started him this weekend and already almost 20.

They're even more fun in PvP. The gadgets shine there. A combination of rocket boots, mine kit and elixir s will quickly drive any opponent mad.

[Thaddeuz]

In pvp i use Rifle (Overcharged Shot), Slick Shoes, Battering Ram and Bomb kit (BoB) for 4 Knockback/knockdown. Will all that, my taget got 10+ sec that he can do nothing but waste his break stun. This is incredibly powerful when i play with a glass canon friend that DPS the guys while i put him on the ground. That don't really work well against thief and elementalist, but its really good against any other class, especially melee ones.

[Phineas Poe]

Sword Hammer Axe, on 11 February 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

Engineers take ages to kill even the simplest mobs (especially in Orr)

It takes me standing there with 3-5 Flame Jets from my Flamethrower to kill 90% of mobs in Orr and Frostgorge Sound. Just using the 5-3-4-2 rifle rotation will knock off over 75% of their health most of the time, too. What gear are you wearing?

I am routinely critting over 2,000 damage unbuffed with my Flame Jet in Orr, and will oftentimes get over 300 damage per tick when Might begins stacking up.  The only enemies that aren't dropped quickly are Earth Elementals, which obviously are more difficult targets to kill for most classes in the game.

I'm surprised you oppose bringing your Engineer to Orr, either way, as we have always been documented as one of the best farming classes in tagging mobs.

Sword Hammer Axe, on 11 February 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

they have extremely limited weaponry (kits can be called variation, but I find that the lack of customization to turn me off running around with a flamethrower or a grenade kit or whatever),

And how is that any different from any other weapon in the game? We can't customize their key bindings either.

And while the Engineer may not have the most varied set of weapons available, it's not like Warriors can actually use more than two weapon sets at a time. The Engineer, instead, can use up to four (three utility slots plus weapon).

That's your variation.

[Phineas Poe]

Xsiriss, on 11 February 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

The problem is that traits are plain awful

Yeah, totally. Like having 100% Vigor and Swiftness in combat, dropping a Light field every time I just switch to my Elixir Gun, getting 7-8 free stacks of Might just wearing my Flamethrower, condition removal on thrown elixirs, or stacking 25 Vulnerability in seconds by myself with the Grenade Kit.

Compared to other classes, the Engineer actually has a pretty amazing trait selection, least of all the class you relentless propped up in your post: the Elementalist.

Xsiriss, on 11 February 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

You do a similar amount of button mashing and hotkeying but the effects are noticeably more meh whilst having the disadvantage of the previously mentioned annoyances.

Engineers have some of the best sustained AoE DPS in the game, great CC/snare options, and amazing support skills between Elixir R and Elixir Gun's 3 AoE condition removal skills. I got my Elementalist to level 30 before I quit. It's funny that a lot of the time people say that Engineers feel like a weak staff Ele, yet I had the exact opposite reaction.

The Elementalist just feels like an FT/EG Engineer with paper plates for armor and being laden with cool downs on kit swaps. Which is unfortunate, because Elementalist was my main in GW1.

Edited by Phineas_Poe, 11 February 2013 - 04:47 PM.

[Xsiriss]

Phineas_Poe, on 11 February 2013 - 04:45 PM, said:

Yeah, totally. Like having 100% Vigor and Swiftness in combat, dropping a Light field every time I just switch to my Elixir Gun, getting 7-8 free stacks of Might just wearing my Flamethrower, condition removal on thrown elixirs, or stacking 25 Vulnerability in seconds by myself with the Grenade Kit.

Compared to other classes, the Engineer actually has a pretty amazing trait selection, least of all the class you relentless propped up in your post: the Elementalist.

I'm not digging at the Engi, it was my first alt and I like it a lot I just feel it's being approached the wrong way. The reason why I compared it to the Ele is the fact they're disturbingly similar except that Engi has been toned down in favour of the passive effects of a medium classs. All classes suffer problems and Ele specifically may have problems with traits but they aren't pinholed to the same ones

Drawing up exaggerations doesn't help anything you say. Flamethrower is medicore, nothing justifies sticking to it for more than the #3,4 and 5 for cc let alone the passive effects that you're required to waste a whole traitline for. Grenades are the best dps option  and strong thanks to weapon stats/sigils but you will never maintain 25 stacks of vuln, especially not against champs and up. This kit too requires a cookie cutter trait/stat distribution to be effective. You also seem to forget that in order to trigger various might stacks or perma vigour/swiftness requires you to swap kits which causes a noticeable disruption time that isn't as fluid as changing attunements.

Stop turning everything into a personal attack onto 'your class' and the selective interpretations. Yes most people playing this game are awful and can't utilise classes properly but it's not always user error.

[Phineas Poe]

Xsiriss, on 11 February 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

I'm not digging at the Engi,

You’re not? You just wrote a 250 word post where the most positive things you said about the class was: “they're not weak and do bring a lot of versatility” … only to turn around and say “a 'good' Ele will always trump a 'good' Engi (PvP and PvE).”

Not to mention the fact that you think the idea of the Flame Jet doing over 2,000 damage is an “exaggeration” or that Firearms is a wasted trait line despite the stupid-high baseline crit it provides shows you’re willing to lambast the Engineer on every of its weaknesses and recognize none of its strengths.

Xsiriss, on 11 February 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

it was my first alt and I like it a lot I just feel it's being approached the wrong way. The reason why I compared it to the Ele is the fact they're disturbingly similar except that Engi has been toned down in favour of the passive effects of a medium classs. All classes suffer problems and Ele specifically may have problems with traits but they aren't pinholed to the same ones.

And the Engineer, in your idea, is?

Just because I've settled with the FT/EG as my playstyle that doesn't mean I feel "pinned" to it or any of its traits, nor is it ever against me to throw on Knight's armor with 30 points in Inventions and bunker it up in WvW with the Tool Kit or go full Zerkers with the Grenade Kit.

Between the 150+ posts I’ve written in this subfolder here on GW2Guru, I have never once for a second felt like we have ever come to a consensus on what the “best” build of the Engineer is or even what the best point distribution between Firearms, Alchemy, and Tools best benefits the FT/EG build.

Xsiriss, on 11 February 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

Drawing up exaggerations doesn't help anything you say. Flamethrower is medicore, nothing justifies sticking to it for more than the #3,4 and 5 for cc let alone the passive effects that you're required to waste a whole traitline for.

And there’s where you are wrong.

Pre-patch, yes. I would have agreed with you that the Flamethrower tossed out mediocre damage. Its benefit was in its tankier nature than the Grenade Kit. But now that our sigils and weapon stats count toward our kit damage, Engineers can now use Sigil of Strength or Bloodlust that consistently puts our Power through the roof.

Xsiriss, on 11 February 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

You also seem to forget that in order to trigger various might stacks or perma vigour/swiftness requires you to swap kits which causes a noticeable disruption time that isn't as fluid as changing attunements.

Wait, having zero cooldown between kit swapping “isn’t as fluid” as being smacked with an untraited 14-second cooldown between attunements? Now you’re just trolling.

I use Rune of Altruism with my FT/EG build. I swap to the Flamethrower, and begin unleashing a Flame Jet. The second the cone of fire starts shooting, I have enough time to swap to my Med Kit, have Fury proc, and switch back to my Flamethrower before Flame Jet ends. I don’t skip a beat. I can do this standing, moving, jumping, whatever.

And about the perma Swiftness/Vigor: Infused Precision + Invigorating Speed.

1. 50% chance to gain Swiftness on Crit.
2. Gain Vigor when you gain Swiftness.
3. ????
4. Profit

Xsiriss, on 11 February 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

Stop turning everything into a personal attack onto 'your class' and the selective interpretations. Yes most people playing this game are awful and can't utilise classes properly but it's not always user error.

I just call it as I see it. You came into this thread and did nothing but lambast the Engineer at every angle, finishing with “a 'good' Ele will always trump a 'good' Engi (PvP and PvE).”

If that isn't a systematic dismissal of a class and its usefulness in a game, I'm not sure what is. I'll "stop" turning things into what they obviously are when people stop making shit up about the Engineer because they couldn't think outside the box long enough to realize that 30 points in Explosives isn't the meta build. Because people like you who have leveled every class to 80 probably haven't even spent all that much time playing the class or even geared it properly to where specs like the FT/EG are best utilized.

But please, I'll let you speak.

Edited by Phineas_Poe, 12 February 2013 - 12:03 AM.

[Sword Hammer Axe]

Phineas_Poe, on 11 February 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

It takes me standing there with 3-5 Flame Jets from my Flamethrower to kill 90% of mobs in Orr and Frostgorge Sound. Just using the 5-3-4-2 rifle rotation will knock off over 75% of their health most of the time, too. What gear are you wearing?

I am routinely critting over 2,000 damage unbuffed with my Flame Jet in Orr, and will oftentimes get over 300 damage per tick when Might begins stacking up.  The only enemies that aren't dropped quickly are Earth Elementals, which obviously are more difficult targets to kill for most classes in the game.

I'm surprised you oppose bringing your Engineer to Orr, either way, as we have always been documented as one of the best farming classes in tagging mobs.

Mob tagging? That's just claiming your share of the loot from the monsters and has nothing to do with how efficient you are in solo performances. You make it sound as if Orr is nothing but farming, which doesn't help your argument regarding the Engineer as a versatile class.

Also, when you say flame jets, do you mean those flamethrower jets or from the turret? I crit 2 k damage as well with the flamethrower, but notice how it takes ages for one attack to finish. That attack ends with a nice little blast of burning on the last hit, which I find neat, but considering that Flamethrower requires for you to move in relatively close range constantly, for your aim to be extra precise compared to every other weapon in game (excluding maybe Grenade Kit) or you'll see a ton of misses, and that the time it takes for one jet to cone off is enough time for a shortbow ranger to fire off 3-4 shots, each dealing 500 damage without crit and without the little annoying things on the side you have to be constantly aware of, I don't find that damage to be very overwhelming. Don't get me wrong, the damage is there, but with all the little irritating items on the side, it is not worth it imo. As for the turrets I find them to be a nice little thing on the side, though they still have a problem in their lack of mobility, their lack of range, their vulnerability, their automatic targeting, their rate of fire, and so on.

Edited by Sword Hammer Axe, 12 February 2013 - 02:06 AM.

[Rachmani]

There are some parts of the engineer that still need alot of love. Turrets for example.
But the recent changes that allowed weapon sigils to affect kits made alot of our stuff plain simply much better.
Especially the flamethrower feels much more powerful now. I also don't know where you get your numbers from, but my flamejet constantly hits for 3k+, rising up to 4k when might procs align. 3-3.5k is the norm. I also find it damn easy to aim. Flame Blast is of course "trickier" to use, but that's it.
Build is 0/30/0/30/10, armor soldier with strength runes, jewelery is berserker (rings are ascended) except for the backpack which is soldier with berserker jewel. As for traits, here is the link:
http://gw2skills.net...cM5IyxmjLHZOjMA

[FoxBat]

Rachmani, on 12 February 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

I also don't know where you get your numbers from

2K is what you get from mostly knights or soldiers setups. So yeah, plenty of room for berserker to improve on.

Edited by FoxBat, 12 February 2013 - 11:01 AM.

[Rachmani]

FoxBat, on 12 February 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

2K is what you get from mostly knights or soldiers setups. So yeah, plenty of room for berserker to improve on.

That pretty much sums it up.