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Are engineers really that bad off?


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#61 Phineas Poe

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:41 AM

View PostSword Hammer Axe, on 12 February 2013 - 02:03 AM, said:

Mob tagging? That's just claiming your share of the loot from the monsters and has nothing to do with how efficient you are in solo performances. You make it sound as if Orr is nothing but farming, which doesn't help your argument regarding the Engineer as a versatile class.

I simply said I was surprised you'd play as a Thief in Orr when the Engineer has such an easy mob-tagging build to use; that had nothing to do with my comments about our versatility, which stand on their own just fine.

Is Orr nothing but farming? It is for me. Not much to do there after 100% world explore except to farm events for karma and drops. I may be done gearing my Engineer but I'm working on alts instead of running dungeons these days. And Fractals aren't really "my thing."

View PostRachmani, on 12 February 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

I also don't know where you get your numbers from, but my flamejet constantly hits for 3k+, rising up to 4k when might procs align.

Depends on your gear, really. I have both a defensive and offensive setup. If I go full Zerkers and Ruby jewelry with dual Pistols (One with Bloodlust the other Strength) the damage can get kind of stupid.

Engineer is my main, which allows me to be flexible with my gearing, but I'm sure a lot of people who level a bunch of classes don't invest that much in one character. The usual standard is P/V/T with Emerald so I gave the figure I usually get with that---with my Rifle.

Edited by Phineas_Poe, 14 February 2013 - 06:42 AM.


#62 Yui San

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:57 AM

The problem is that a lot of people are not very patient and if they get killed a few times they usually don't try tinkering around with builds they just say that the profession is bad. From my very long experience with only games I can say that it always is the players fault and not the professions if it doesn't work. Of course some professions are more difficult to play but a bad or useless profession would obviously not even be in the game. What makes it even worse that those people also think that everyone else is also bad at playing a certain profession (you see that in lfg msgs with comments like "no engineers, thieves" for example).

In my opinion the engineer is a more difficult profession to really get into it. There is so much you can do with an engineer and they can offer a lot to any team. I think that you have to invest more time reading about the engineer and checking out the traits and skills before you start playing (unlike with other professions like Guardian). But if you do that you will find a unique and great gaming experience. I played my engineer for like 20 levels until I really got a build I liked and since then I find it very easy to level up and I already have plans for builds to take him to dungeons or go farming etc.

#63 Kovares

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:23 AM

View PostYui San, on 14 February 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

The problem is that a lot of people are not very patient and if they get killed a few times they usually don't try tinkering around with builds they just say that the profession is bad. From my very long experience with only games I can say that it always is the players fault and not the professions if it doesn't work.

So what you're saying is that it is absolutely not possible for a dev of any game to not create a perfect equilibrium of class balance? That is just so awfully wrong that I'm almost inclined to think you're just trolling here...

Anyway, I see that the engineer class is "more difficult then others to get into", which basically means you have to play better to perform equal to someone else who is playing another class. Furthermore, there isn't any payoff to it at all, meaning the class does not suddenly get better at anything valuable then others are.

So we have a class that, while being passable if played by someone "skilled" will always be underperforming if you compare it with someone of equal skill on another class. If that's not the definition of "imbalance", I don't know what is.

#64 Yui San

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:55 PM

View PostKovares, on 14 February 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

So what you're saying is that it is absolutely not possible for a dev of any game to not create a perfect equilibrium of class balance? That is just so awfully wrong that I'm almost inclined to think you're just trolling here...

No need for such assumptions it also isn't wrong. ;-) It's an experience I made over the years that a lot of players rather call a certain profession bad than trying harder to find a good build and a good way to play it. Like I said some professions aren't as easy to get into as others but if people really try (and of course if they like the profession) they can play any profession. I also didn't even mention anything about balance.

Edited by Yui San, 14 February 2013 - 12:56 PM.


#65 Thaddeuz

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 02:24 PM

Creating a balance between all profession is really hard if not impossible. Ya some profession will be better at support, while other will be better at melee damage and other range damage. But how you balance these strength between the different class. How much support capability a class need to be equally good as the huge damage of the other one? Its hard to balance when your talking about Orange vs Apple.

On the other hand its so easy for the players to found a easy profession like the warrior and say : that is the best class of the game, its overpowered and we should all play this class only.

#66 beadnbutter32

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 03:20 PM

I really wanted to like the engineer class, it sounded appealling, but I found it too much like the Elementalist in terms of having too many skill trees.

If you don't have alot of time to burn trying out each skill extensively, you won't be happy with the class.  Fortunately for Elementalists, there are a number of good guides out there that help shorten the learning curve, but I did not find that for Engineers.

I am sure a few people pick them up and immediately 'grok' the skill trees and go to town and have a blast, but I didn't and I think many others don't either.

The main reason why I deleted my level 50 engineer was that more than any other class I have played, it seemed to be the most dependent on skills with long to moderate cool downs.  In order to be effective one had to sit down and try and map out attack sequences built around the skill cool downs.  

Just one example: turrets serve an almost identical function as illusions do for Mesmers.  They distract your PVE foe into attacking it instead of you, do low to moderate damage, and die rather quickly.  The Mesmer has no cool down for popping out new illusions, where the Engineer has to wait for a cool down.  

Maybe that kind of play appeals to some people but not me, I don't enjoy juggling timed objects.

I think the best thing to give Engineers better PR would be if there were some good guides put out there so people who don't understand them instantly can give them a go without having to invest hours and hours of trial and error.

Edited by beadnbutter32, 14 February 2013 - 03:23 PM.


#67 Phineas Poe

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 04:37 PM

View Postbeadnbutter32, on 14 February 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Maybe that kind of play appeals to some people but not me, I don't enjoy juggling timed objects.

Which is precisely the reason I don't like Elementalist in Guild Wars 2.

I genuinely don't understand your confusion over the skill trees. The Engineer always seemed fairly straight-forward to me. Compare that to a Warrior or Guardian where trait trees feel very similar to one another, each tree for the Engi had a pretty obvious targeted setup. I never felt like putting points in Inventions was the best setup in mind for a Grenade Kit build, for starters.

I guess it's easier to look at it if you know what kinds of kits, gadgets, and elixirs you feel like using. Not really hard to see that Juggernaut is the best trait in the game for the Flamethrower, and that 30 points in Firearms is the way to go. And similarly for the Grenade Kit and Explosives with Grenadier. Or 30 points in Alchemy if you're big on elixirs.

Edited by Phineas_Poe, 14 February 2013 - 04:38 PM.


#68 coglin

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 07:55 PM

View Postbeadnbutter32, on 14 February 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

I really wanted to like the engineer class, it sounded appealling, but I found it too much like the Elementalist in terms of having too many skill trees.

I think you are confused. Engineers do not have skill trees. No profession does in GW2. There are trait lines that offer traits to enhance the profession or enhance the weapons or utility.

#69 Lilie Mae

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 08:19 PM

View PostPhineas_Poe, on 07 February 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

Excuse my ignorance, but what are these "legitimate issues?"

The biggest complaints about our class have always been about sigils and weapon stats not being calculated into our output.

Now they are.

I'm pretty much 99% satisfied with where the Engineer is at right now, save maybe a buff to turrets.

Sorry, for ignorance, I haven't played engineer since january. I know they fixed the sigil being applied to kits, but when did they make weapon stats count as well? Btw, does that include only the weapon damage or does it also include the other stats (zerker, knight, etc)

#70 matsif

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 08:24 PM

View PostLilie Mae, on 06 March 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

Sorry, for ignorance, I haven't played engineer since january. I know they fixed the sigil being applied to kits, but when did they make weapon stats count as well? Btw, does that include only the weapon damage or does it also include the other stats (zerker, knight, etc)

see the quote from patch notes in OP of this thread

#71 Lilie Mae

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 08:33 PM

Thx.




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#72 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:35 AM



#73 Cures

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 09:34 PM

View PostGuanglaiKangyi, on 07 March 2013 - 12:35 AM, said:



while i love the engie and like his dps, i have no clue why you spam this vid in every second thread. people asked you to show how you pull it off in a dungeon/frac for a week now - i guess killing some veterans is you favorite thing tho. other classes can do it faster and easier (as was shown by the second most annoying guy in here, strife), and only idiots think we can't do nice burst. pls tell us - whats your point - and why do you not show something a bit more entertaining?  ( no worries - i run this build since a long time and i know its crap in dungeons).

#74 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 09:46 PM

View PostCures, on 10 March 2013 - 09:34 PM, said:

while i love the engie and like his dps, i have no clue why you spam this vid in every second thread. people asked you to show how you pull it off in a dungeon/frac for a week now - i guess killing some veterans is you favorite thing tho. other classes can do it faster and easier (as was shown by the second most annoying guy in here, strife), and only idiots think we can't do nice burst. pls tell us - whats your point - and why do you not show something a bit more entertaining?  ( no worries - i run this build since a long time and i know its crap in dungeons).

Because people are saying engineer has no DPS and that clearly disproves it.  I'd like you to show me a class that can ouput more DPS than in that video.  Even Strife doesn't dispute that the engineer's DPS is higher, his video was a warrior burst and this is engineer sustained.

Also, if you can't manage this build in dungeons, that's your problem, not mine.

#75 konsta_hoptrop

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 09:56 PM

i am sure that i saw another video in another topic , where warrior was compared to that same engineer vs same risen giant and warrior killed it 4 seconds faster. Engi killed it for 18 secs , warrior killed it for 14 secs. ANd warrior killed it much easier. Engineer has to switch so many kits and dodges and skill circles. Warrior just go in and unload everything he has and that's it. Warrior has the best dps. Sadly hundred blades hit only 3 targets and warrior gs skills are  useless in spvp.

#76 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 10:28 PM

View Postkonsta_hoptrop, on 10 March 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

i am sure that i saw another video in another topic , where warrior was compared to that same engineer vs same risen giant and warrior killed it 4 seconds faster. Engi killed it for 18 secs , warrior killed it for 14 secs. ANd warrior killed it much easier. Engineer has to switch so many kits and dodges and skill circles. Warrior just go in and unload everything he has and that's it. Warrior has the best dps. Sadly hundred blades hit only 3 targets and warrior gs skills are  useless in spvp.

That was also my video he was comparing the warrior to.  The one up there is a redo because people were telling me the traits and consumables I was using don't actually work reliably, plus the warrior was bursting with Frenzy, so I used Elixir U to even the odds.  The kill times ended up being about the same after I did that.




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