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#1 Gorwe

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 05:40 PM

Right. Seeing how I trust you and how I have a problem that concerns GW 2(and all MMOs for that matter), here is the problem:

Well, in MMOs and in them only when MY character dies(actually the resurrection is the problem) I get stressed out and I lose all the will to play that character. What comes out of that? Deleted character and playing from the beggining. This is voided if the character has actually reached max level(then I stop caring). What are the roots of this? Well to be honest, most likely candidates are the Survivor sytem(original one) in GW 1 and Hardcore Mode in Diablo(not to mention Diablo 1). This is a MAJOR problem that prevents me from actually playing MMOs.

This phenomena is strictly tied to MMOs because they don't have Save/Load system AND they allow you to personalise your character. If I am playing Super Mario or Tryndamere or Master Chief this is non existant. I guess that I don't like to see my creations die. This could be a well known writter's problem actually.

And don't bother saying nonsense like "Go see a Psychiatrist/Psychollogist". Because if he hasn't bothered thinking about writting and character creation and games, he'll just be O.O(like most of you).

So, any advices on how to overcome this? Speak for MMOs in general, not only GW 2.

Thank You!

#2 Lycrus

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 05:47 PM

Actually...the "Go see a Psychiatrist/Psychollogist" is quite helpful here. because they can help you and understand such problems. This problem is not a problem of mmo's, it just occurs in such type of games. I dont see the possability of overcoming this easily.

the thing you could do...just force yourself playing it. encounter your fears...face them. Create a character, make the rule to only ever create one single character..and play it. if you die and cant play anymore..then drop the game. in the end, the pain of losing more and more games COULD solve the problem..but...you could take pills or simpyl go to a doc <,< this is a psyche problem after all.

oh and btw...nothing is wrong with being "o.O".

Edited by Lycrus, 04 February 2013 - 05:48 PM.


#3 astromarmot

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 05:47 PM

What is more fun, the journey or the destination?  Maybe try mixing a little of both worlds...have a diehardcore alt and a whogivesadonkey alt...

#4 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 05:57 PM

If you are having fun making new characters, then I honestly do not see a problem.
If, on the other hand, making a new character feels like a chore, then either stop playing the game (or find a game that can be played this way) or don't delete the character.

#5 Arngrim Einheri

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 06:46 PM

Dying in GW2 has hardly any consequence. Now with the new patch idk what they did in dungeons.

Edited by Arngrim Einheri, 04 February 2013 - 06:46 PM.


#6 Specialz

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 06:50 PM

actually completely ignore this:
So you are asking us people who don't understand the way your mind works to give you advice. There is a reason why people need to have a doctorate to give psychological advise and the reason it takes a while for problems to get resolved.

Short of going to see a "shrink", maybe you should consider playing games as a form of ENTERTAINMENT, if you are having issue with the way you are currently playing, then in my expert opinion you are not having FUN. Treat a game as something to have fun in, not something to see as an achievement or as a challenge. When you are playing ask yourself this " Am I having fun?" And if the answer is no then stop and do something else.

By a shrink will probably be better or some self help books IF you truly want to change.

Tl;DR

Try to play the game like you are playing super mario. Your issue unfortunately seems more psychological, since it doesn't happen with every game. So try to imagine playing the game like you would if it was mario. Another way to simply try and roleplay that rezing is part of your character that death make it stronger.

Edited by Specialz, 04 February 2013 - 06:56 PM.


#7 Specialz

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 06:56 PM

View PostArngrim Einheri, on 04 February 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

Dying in GW2 has hardly any consequence. Now with the new patch idk what they did in dungeons.
And what exactly does that have to do with anything the OP was saying?

#8 Gorwe

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 07:32 PM

It is fun. Well, mostly. But it quickly gets down the drain if my character dies.

The point is-I Like perma death and Hardcore mode. Resurrection is Unholy, perverted Act of Necromancy.

And I don't find self-help books worth my money. Some bloke on the other side of the globe supposedly knows what's good for me? That sounds...thin.

#9 astromarmot

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 08:29 PM

View PostGorwe, on 04 February 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

Some bloke on the other side of the globe supposedly knows what's good for me? That sounds...thin.


But isn't that sort of what you're asking for here?  A bunch of anonymous strangers to figure out what's best for you when you're not even sure yourself what you want?  

If you like those things, then play that way, but strive to do better(honestly at least through the midlevels, it's really not that difffcult to avoid dying if you're willing to play even a little bit conservatively.

#10 Khrushchev

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 08:39 PM

View PostGorwe, on 04 February 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

It is fun. Well, mostly. But it quickly gets down the drain if my character dies.

The point is-I Like perma death and Hardcore mode. Resurrection is Unholy, perverted Act of Necromancy.

And I don't find self-help books worth my money. Some bloke on the other side of the globe supposedly knows what's good for me? That sounds...thin.

Lore-wise, aren't characters "defeated" not killed? That's why all it takes to get back in the fight is a pat on the back (or sometimes the ground next to you).

I guess the best advice I can give is to look at it from a different perspective, and steer clear of necromancers. Us Necros love raising the dead. Quite a waste of flesh and bone if I just left it there after all.

#11 Arngrim Einheri

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:10 PM

View PostSpecialz, on 04 February 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

And what exactly does that have to do with anything the OP was saying?
What did I say?

Quote

Well, in MMOs and in them only when MY character dies(actually the resurrection is the problem) I get stressed out and I lose all the will to play that character.

I think it is related to what he said. (or she)

___________________________________________________________________________________

View PostGorwe, on 04 February 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:


The point is-I Like perma death and Hardcore mode. Resurrection is Unholy, perverted Act of Necromancy.


Oh dear... cautiosly walks backwards.

Are you discussing that about this game in particular, about any game or in general terms?

Edited by Arngrim Einheri, 04 February 2013 - 10:16 PM.


#12 Robsy128

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:20 PM

Don't delete your character?

That would be my decision... Just try it. Force yourself to do it and maybe, just maybe, you'll be able to get past it.

#13 HawkofStorms

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:49 PM

Intentionally make characters that are generic or unappealing to you in some way.  That way you won't get emotionally invested in them or care about them when they die.

Example, if you are playing a Super Hero MMO, make a Superman-knockoff/lookalike character.

Make characters that are ugly.

Make characters that look like RL actors.

If you only have a problem when "your creation" is killed, then make characters that aren't your own.  Not ideal, but it is a good workaround so you can still actually play these types of games and might eventually get you comfortable enough to stop.

Edited by HawkofStorms, 04 February 2013 - 10:50 PM.


#14 Just Horus

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:40 PM

Buy makeover kits (use gold conversion if you don't want to use real money). Every time you die, radically change your character's appearance and switch gender. Also change your traits and weapons. It'll technically be the same toon but maybe you'll feel like you are playing a completely different character.

#15 Gorwe

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 12:38 AM

Concerning Arngrim: In general. Resurrection is listed under Necromancy in DnD and so it happens that my thoughts coincide with that. That is why I couldn't play Rift(Clones and whatever suck).

To all the others: You are basically telling me to just create a character I don't find appealing? Like Charr in GW? Hmmm...
God dam that Hardcore mode!

#16 Corsair

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 04:23 AM

View PostGorwe, on 05 February 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

Concerning Arngrim: In general. Resurrection is listed under Necromancy in DnD and so it happens that my thoughts coincide with that. That is why I couldn't play Rift(Clones and whatever suck).

To all the others: You are basically telling me to just create a character I don't find appealing? Like Charr in GW? Hmmm...
God dam that Hardcore mode!
There are MMOs out there made to appeal to this sort of mind set. They are largely sand boxes and are either full loot or permadeath. EVE is a popular example where due to the lore you can set up clones of your character, and if you don't put enough money into them you will lose skill progress. Darkfall is another one with pretty large consequences for death. I think Ryzom as well. Perhaps ArchAge will follow in a similar style.

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#17 Trei

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 05:03 AM

Player characters do not die in gw2, resurrection does not exist here.

You fight, lose and faints, gets revived.

Even necromancers here do not resurrect the dead.
They merely build organic constructs from bio material left by dead organic creatures, then reanimate them.

No different than how an engineer build things with metal and wood, then power them up with an energy source.

#18 Arngrim Einheri

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:08 PM

View PostGorwe, on 05 February 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

Concerning Arngrim: In general. Resurrection is listed under Necromancy in DnD and so it happens that my thoughts coincide with that. That is why I couldn't play Rift(Clones and whatever suck).


Well, in christianity resurrection is considered something divine, like somekind of ascension and soul cleansing. In WoW for example, Paladins and Priests were able to resurrect by using holy powers. From my PoV necromancers do not "resurrect" technically speaking because the body itself is dead. they just give a corpse an illusion of conscience and then animate them. So I would say that necros "raise animated corpses" while clerics/paladins/priests or whatever you want to name them resurrect bodies by putting back the soul in the body. Well, those are my thoughts.

Edited by Arngrim Einheri, 05 February 2013 - 01:09 PM.


#19 Gorwe

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:05 PM

View PostArngrim Einheri, on 05 February 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:



Well, in christianity resurrection is considered something divine, like somekind of ascension and soul cleansing. In WoW for example, Paladins and Priests were able to resurrect by using holy powers. From my PoV necromancers do not "resurrect" technically speaking because the body itself is dead. they just give a corpse an illusion of conscience and then animate them. So I would say that necros "raise animated corpses" while clerics/paladins/priests or whatever you want to name them resurrect bodies by putting back the soul in the body. Well, those are my thoughts.

And it still is Necromancy-well it varies from DnD versions. Sometimes it's Nec and sometimes it's Conj. Idk what's with that...

#20 Arngrim Einheri

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:38 PM

View PostGorwe, on 05 February 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

And it still is Necromancy-well it varies from DnD versions. Sometimes it's Nec and sometimes it's Conj. Idk what's with that...
You said that resurrection was "Resurrection is Unholy, perverted Act of Necromancy."
I told you that it wasn't, nothing more.

#21 Gorwe

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:48 PM

Thank you guys! A big THANK YOU!!!

You have reminded me of Conjuration and in that very school lies the answer to all my problems :)!

Namely, who says you even die? You just respawn somewhere-who says that you aren't just spirited away? Or, if you are a magician, you just fall back by teleporting. They are all explanations from the College of Conjuration.

That's nice. One problem down. :D :D

#22 ilr

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:23 PM

Given that this is such a recent yet isolated Compulsion, there really aren't many Psychologists equipped to deal with it and a Psychiatrist could potentially cause more fallout (no pun intended) than they fixed.

I tend to always play way too conservatively because b/c I get in the same habit, my save-/-Load hotkeys on most single player games worn down to nothing and my "Ctrl-Z" fuctions always the VERY first thing I ever remap to a single button in most non-game Software. It is NOT "O.C.D.", they're completely different..   Also, I DID go to a psychiatrist for another problem not directly related and was put on Straterra which I believe made the problem worse until I quit Gaming entirely as a side effect of it which has solved it in a round about way I guess.  Therefore I think it might be related to something called "Hyperfocus".  ...possibly inhibitors and definitely stemming from a proprietary reward system learned behavior Pattern only present in certain people.  I have Absolutely no idea where you'd start to fix it without breaking serveral helpful brain patterns in the process.

"Substitution"  might just work though, it sounds like a good idea the more I think about it.

Edited by ilr, 05 February 2013 - 11:30 PM.


#23 Gorwe

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:56 PM

View Postilr, on 05 February 2013 - 11:23 PM, said:

Given that this is such a recent yet isolated Compulsion, there really aren't many Psychologists equipped to deal with it and a Psychiatrist could potentially cause more fallout (no pun intended) than they fixed.

I tend to always play way too conservatively because b/c I get in the same habit, my save-/-Load hotkeys on most single player games worn down to nothing and my "Ctrl-Z" fuctions always the VERY first thing I ever remap to a single button in most non-game Software. It is NOT "O.C.D.", they're completely different..   Also, I DID go to a psychiatrist for another problem not directly related and was put on Straterra which I believe made the problem worse until I quit Gaming entirely as a side effect of it which has solved it in a round about way I guess.  Therefore I think it might be related to something called "Hyperfocus".  ...possibly inhibitors and definitely stemming from a proprietary reward system learned behavior Pattern only present in certain people.  I have Absolutely no idea where you'd start to fix it without breaking serveral helpful brain patterns in the process.

"Substitution"  might just work though, it sounds like a good idea the more I think about it.

Which "Substitution"?

#24 Specialz

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:30 AM

View PostGorwe, on 04 February 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:


And I don't find self-help books worth my money. Some bloke on the other side of the globe supposedly knows what's good for me? That sounds...thin.

Says the guy asking for help on the internet, in a game forum from random people about behavior defects (it is a defect since it negatively impacts you), but hey I suppose calling one a bloke makes you feel better. I am glad to have helped. ;) good luck in therapy.

#25 Soki

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:41 AM

There are more issues than the symptoms, if you're that attached.
Seek professional help.

#26 Rhododendron

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:16 PM

You should stay away from EVE online. Leik srsly.

Edited by Rhododendron, 06 February 2013 - 09:16 PM.


#27 ilr

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:25 PM

View PostGorwe, on 05 February 2013 - 11:56 PM, said:

Which "Substitution"?
At this point, any of them that work...  Substituting is exactly what it sounds like, you identify the root of the compulsion, and find something else that fires the same neurons without the same level of self-destructive "downward spiral" involvement.  In my case, it's been refocusing that compulsory "Control Freak" aspect towards CG-Artwork instead.  In your case, it could be damn near anything since you clearly said you don't have this same problem in several other game genres where the "mechanics for a clear victory" are very different.  I'll be honest, the ONLY game I ever get a craving to go back and play is GW1, and Gw2 to some degree mainly b/c those success metrics were so clearly "structured".  Especially GW1 where DP would pile up and kick you out of the area in hardmode if you didn't play like it was HardCore Diablo. :P


But yeah, don't listen to these jerks who are saying "professional" help is the only hope... those people obviously know nothing about how shoddy & underfunded the Mental Health community really is in this country & have never actually gotten professional help for something like this.

Edited by ilr, 10 February 2013 - 12:30 AM.


#28 Gorwe

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 08:27 PM

View Postilr, on 08 February 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:


At this point, any of them that work...  Substituting is exactly what it sounds like, you identify the root of the compulsion, and find something else that fires the same neurons without the same level of self-destructive "downward spiral" involvement.  In my case, it's been refocusing that compulsory "Control Freak" aspect towards CG-Artwork instead.  In your case, it could be damn near anything since you clearly said you don't have this same problem in several other game genres where the "mechanics for a clear victory" are very different.  I'll be honest, the ONLY game I ever get a craving to go back and play is GW1, and Gw2 to some degree mainly b/c those success metrics were so clearly "structured".  Especially GW1 where DP would pile up and kick you out of the area in hardmode if you didn't play like it was HardCore Diablo. :P


But yeah, don't listen to these jerks who are saying "professional" help is the only hope... those people obviously know nothing about how shoddy &amp; underfunded the Mental Health community really is in this country &amp; have never actually gotten professional help for something like this.

Time to Necro!

Concerning the bigger paragraph:

Well, Yeah. I link it to the fact that most of MMOs today are boring killfests. Seeing how I enjoy varied activities, I get bored and then the mind starts wandering. The very first thing that my mind asks is: How come I am able to get resurrected without aid of priests/clerics/Light mages? Seeing how that question is unanswerable, I get very annoyed and quickly lose the will to play. Solution? Varied gameplay and/or not calling a death-the death(call it defeat{a la GW 2}/exhaustion{a la TSW}/whatever else).

And yes, after trying TSW and getting blown to smithereens in very first saboutage mission(LOL!-I can't hide/sneak for waffle!)-I WANTED to play even MORE! That's the very opposite of my normal MMO state! TSW employs both of my proposed solutions: a death is called an exhaustion(ignore how players call it) and it has one of the most varied MMO gameplays(Saboutages/Investigations/skill wheel/...).

Of course, there is another way for me to disregard my MMO condition(it has a positive and a negative way of doing it). Positive way would be: Make me care about my character, make him a Real part of a world and not a Hero #74656(hidden meaning there! Yay! :) ). Make him a part of an army and not some omnipotent bloke. The negative way is to make me not care about my character-perhaps even outright hate him. The easiest way to do it? Make me play a Warhammer Dark Elf. I hate em so much that I'd be jumping off cliffs/doing leeroy style and such stunts while having fun.

The easiest solution however is to simply explain how the fu cking resurrection shrines work! Sth how NWN 1 explained it. But I guess that's too much to Expect from today's devs(sadly). Where the games are not made to be fun or awesome, they are made to be Cash grabs. The lack of explanation behind resurrection and the sole focus on combat just proves me right.

The hell? I had to go as far as Lovecraft/Conspiracies in order to find a MMO I love. Such an extreme distance...

Concerning your last paragraph:

No shrink will help you with Hyperfocus. Most of them aren't even aware of its existence and those that are most likely aren't trained how to handle it. Even IF they WERE trained-what makes you think that they understand games and can understand you? And if they DO know that, who says that they know anything about MMOs past the fact that it's Like WoW. See the pattern?
They would just diagnose it as sth else and therefore give you the medication that you DON'T even NEED. Therefore, ruining your Life forever.

Well that's all I got to say about that today. More later(perhaps). ;)

Edit: If only GW 2 gave you the freedom to edit your first five skills and the freedom to edit the utility skills how I see them fit(let me take Four Healing skills or none at all dam it!). If wishes were horses...

Edited by Gorwe, 18 March 2013 - 08:46 PM.


#29 Red_Eye_Dreams

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 08:43 PM

Dude, its pixels on a screen.  Games are a man made construct.  They have no bearing over the realm of the divine.  Their rules exist outside our own, you can kill, loot, pillage, steal, deceive in a game, and it will not have RL consequences. Remember God made man, man made games.  God did not make games.

#30 Corsair

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:49 AM

View PostGorwe, on 18 March 2013 - 08:27 PM, said:



The easiest solution however is to simply explain how the *ing resurrection shrines work! Sth how NWN 1 explained it. But I guess that's too much to Expect from today's devs(sadly). Where the games are not made to be fun or awesome, they are made to be Cash grabs. The lack of explanation behind resurrection and the sole focus on combat just proves me right.
Concerning this, it's probably because resurrection really *s with game lore. FF is a great example when you can buy a phoenix down in most any item shop yet if someone dies in the story they stay dead. Aerith dead? Why can't I use any of my 99 phoenix downs!?! Let alone villains.

As for TSW, you do die. But the bees from Agartha supposedly put your pieces back together. One of the quests actually requires you to die so you can interact and see things you can't when you're alive. I have no idea why. It was even mentioned in a cinematic.

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