29 replies to this topic

[Lilly32]

What class can stay up the longest facetanking mobs, cause kiting is for weaklings, and just moving from mob to mob the fastest cause they never lose health?  Also who makes the best use of heal on crit food?

[TGIFrisbie]

Quote

cause kiting is for weaklings

You are playing the wrong game.

[Khrushchev]

TGIFrisbie, on 04 February 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

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You are playing the wrong game.

This.

With regards to your question, Guardian has the best heals.
Engineer with a flamethrower benefits off heal on crit the most.

[Dabrixmgp]

TGIFrisbie, on 04 February 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

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You are playing the wrong game.

Im pretty sure GS, Hammer, and Axe/Mace warriors are not kiting anything.  Unless you consider dodging and strafing to avoid the red circles kiting, which I dont.  Also Id imagine thieves and eles can get a lot too since they have attack on heal signets and Im just assuming those stack with crit heal food.  I bet a D/D ele with 30 in air with heal on cast signet would rack up some serious self healing.  Same for thieves and a high crit build.

Edited by Dabrixmgp, 04 February 2013 - 10:01 PM.

[Rocky Balmoa]

Elementalist: I do never use my healing skill

[Lordkrall]

Dabrixmgp, on 04 February 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

Im pretty sure GS, Hammer, and Axe/Mace warriors are not kiting anything.  Unless you consider dodging and strafing to avoid the red circles kiting, which I dont.  Also Id imagine thieves and eles can get a lot too since they have attack on heal signets and Im just assuming those stack with crit heal food.  I bet a D/D ele with 30 in air with heal on cast signet would rack up some serious self healing.  Same for thieves and a high crit build.

Yeah, good luck standing still against most on-actual level veteran + mobs

[Dabrixmgp]

Lordkrall, on 04 February 2013 - 10:09 PM, said:

Yeah, good luck standing still against most on-actual level veteran + mobs

Well OP's post sounds like they are talking about solo leveling because if you are doing Veterans or Champs or Events there will always be lots of other people and you will get heals from them so you wouldnt be soloing Veterans unless your server is dead.

So I think a Signet Build warrior build but also taking For Great Justice and using Axe/Axe would be the best.

Edited by Dabrixmgp, 04 February 2013 - 10:20 PM.

[NuclearDonut]

Best self heals are Elementalist. However, it sounds like you just want to kill everything and never die. In that case, Warrior/Guardian is the way to go.

[SnowmanRelic]

everyone says war is the way to go, I feel more like glass in my warrior than I do in my thief.

[TGIFrisbie]

Dabrixmgp, on 04 February 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

Im pretty sure GS, Hammer, and Axe/Mace warriors are not kiting anything.  Unless you consider dodging and strafing to avoid the red circles kiting, which I dont.  Also Id imagine thieves and eles can get a lot too since they have attack on heal signets and Im just assuming those stack with crit heal food.  I bet a D/D ele with 30 in air with heal on cast signet would rack up some serious self healing.  Same for thieves and a high crit build.

You are deluded and playing the wrong game.  You will find them kiting, and you will find NO ONE without a ranged weapon on switch.  Stop deluding yourself into being Mr Cool.

[Bloggi]

Dabrixmgp, on 04 February 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

I bet a D/D ele with 30 in air with heal on cast signet would rack up some serious self healing.

While this would work in theory I think an aggressively specced ele is going to go down real quick especially if in melee range, unless played very skillfully.

I haven't played all classes in this game to date, but the ele does have some great self heals especially with two of the water skills in staff, and if traited defensively in water and a bit in earth. With kiting and dodging it can take aggro for a sustained period of time and still survive despite light armor and having a low health pool. I use my heal skill less often than with my necro and I play both classes pretty offensively near the frontline.

It would seem that the game is designed in a manner that the 'squishier' classes actually have very good means of self-heal (eg. regeneration), reducing (eg. protection) or evading damage (eg. with the help of vigor for more dodges, mobility through the use of certain skills that by their very nature allow evasion of attacks or even swiftness), whereas the more 'tanky' classes have less means of that in exchange for heavier armor or loads more HP.

But a low health pool is still a low health pool. Dodging and kiting is very important for the ele because it can be downed in an instant of focus fire. I've almost developed a restless twitch in my left hand as a result and stafe on non-channeled attacks regardless of what class I run.

[Sitriel]

I play every profession and the one that comes closest to the term "facetanking" would be the guardian, with the warrior as a fairly close second. I do not really kite with any profession, but the mad zipping, tumbling and dancing I (have to) engage in with the others would not qualify as "facetanking", I guess.

[lalangamena]

guardian have the best heals, self heals and survivability, much higher than ele.

[GuanglaiKangyi]

Khrushchev, on 04 February 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

This.

With regards to your question, Guardian has the best heals.
Engineer with a flamethrower benefits off heal on crit the most.

Grenade hits faster than flamethrower if you trait Grenadier.

[FoxBat]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 05 February 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

Grenade hits faster than flamethrower if you trait Grenadier.

Flame Jet is near 3.9 hits per second while grenadier is exactly 3 (or 3.16ish if every grenade barrage hits), so not really.

[Tiffy27]

Im finding guardian to be good at staying alive but my damage was meh.

Edited by Tiffy27, 05 February 2013 - 01:49 PM.

[Geralt Romalion]

I would have to say guardian.
Pretty much everything you do heals you, attacks, dodges, skills, boons,passive virtues..
Combined with loads of options for heals from regeneration and weapon skills, it is pretty hard to die.
Sure you have a lower healthpool, but that is easily fixed with the right armor combination.

Edited by Geralt Romalion, 05 February 2013 - 01:51 PM.

[Alilei22]

Just get heal on crit food and a sigil of Blood and jack up your precision and anything will have high healing.

lalangamena, on 05 February 2013 - 06:21 AM, said:

guardian have the best heals, self heals and survivability, much higher than ele.

No...just no.  Have watched a D/D ele in sPvP kite half a team around the map for the whole match.  He would let them catch up every now and then just to troll them, when he got to 20%, ride the lightening out then healed up in water stance  It was just retarded.  The people kept chasing him too. So many bads... cant even kill someone 4v1.

TGIFrisbie, on 04 February 2013 - 11:23 PM, said:

You are deluded and playing the wrong game.  You will find them kiting, and you will find NO ONE without a ranged weapon on switch.  Stop deluding yourself into being Mr Cool.

Maybe if you are doing a dungeon or a Champion. No one dodges normal leveling mobs or waves during Events.  No one kites normal mobs either unless you are wearing gear 25 levels below your level or you are level 50 and trying to kill level 60 stuff for some reason.

Edited by Alilei22, 06 February 2013 - 10:10 PM.

[FoxBat]

Alilei22, on 06 February 2013 - 10:03 PM, said:

No...just no.  Have watched a D/D ele in sPvP kite half a team around the map for the whole match.  He would let them catch up every now and then just to troll them, when he got to 20%, ride the lightening out then healed up in water stance  It was just retarded.  The people kept chasing him too. So many bads... cant even kill someone 4v1.

Question was about which class has the best self-heals, not mobility.

Note where you are posting too. If you're kiting that much around a dungeon, you're just trolling your allies.

[Strife025]

AH guardian in a 5 man dungeon if you're talking about challenging PvE content.

Everyone who says you need to kite in dungeons or you can't full melee obviously doesn't really understand group dynamics and skills running organized "high level" groups.

Edited by Strife025, 07 February 2013 - 12:13 AM.

[Minion]

Lordkrall, on 04 February 2013 - 10:09 PM, said:

Yeah, good luck standing still against most on-actual level veteran + mobs

I guess you never played a guardian. Even a glass guard isn't really glass. It's carbon, and hits like a spiked sledgehammer.

[AsgarZigel]

Note that self-healing isn't the only way to avoid damage. Aegis, protection, weakness, blind, block skills, interrupts, stuns...
applying all of these at the right time is pretty important as well.

[Evans]

Guardian signet of resolve is THE best healing skill in the game. There is absolutely no contest.

I laugh at the people who say Elementalist. Their healing is most certainly not the best. They have quite a few skills that can heal yes, but none of them are major heals and their self heal skills heal for a lousy bit. Coupled with the fact that they have the defenses of a wet noodle, they are most certainly not suited for the OP going off his comment.

Facetanking mobs (though you shouldnt but w/e)  ->  Guardian, no contest
Crit on heal  ->  likely Warrior, though also useful on Guardian

[Craywulf]

Kiting is the ultimate self-healing skill you can learn as a player. Anyone thinking it's sign of weakness is deluded. Expecting to last long by "facetanking" using the so-called best heal skill is idiotic and is a rather archaic thought process for modern MMO. This isn't your daddy's cartoon-ey MMO.

[Cures]

a good engineer outlives any guard in any situation.

[Strife025]

Craywulf, on 08 February 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

Kiting is the ultimate self-healing skill you can learn as a player. Anyone thinking it's sign of weakness is deluded. Expecting to last long by "facetanking" using the so-called best heal skill is idiotic and is a rather archaic thought process for modern MMO. This isn't your daddy's cartoon-ey MMO.

More like a sign of being slow and inefficient. The only thing kiting is for is for players who don't have good group synergy and/or don't know how to dodge.

Melee weapons have natural cleave and are balanced for more dps since they put you at greater risk, the fastest and easiest dungeon runs are groups who know how to melee.

[Tiffy27]

Exactly how good is using heal on crit food combined with a sigil of blood?  Can they actually keep you alive?

Edited by Tiffy27, 08 February 2013 - 07:19 PM.

[oni88]

Evans, on 08 February 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

Guardian signet of resolve is THE best healing skill in the game. There is absolutely no contest.

I laugh at the people who say Elementalist. Their healing is most certainly not the best. They have quite a few skills that can heal yes, but none of them are major heals and their self heal skills heal for a lousy bit. Coupled with the fact that they have the defenses of a wet noodle, they are most certainly not suited for the OP going off his comment.

Facetanking mobs (though you shouldnt but w/e)  ->  Guardian, no contest
Crit on heal  ->  likely Warrior, though also useful on Guardian

The thing about eles is that they have many accessible heals and overall can heal very well. In terms of group aoe heal, they're certainly one of the best. Not sure about self heal compared to guardian but I melee with my ele (S/D) and mostly never use my heal skill. I can heal myself and allies for 4k every ten secs (water attunement + dodge) plus two extra heal skills (2k with 20s CD and 2k with 40s CD) which averages to about 5.5k aoe heal per 10 secs, not including regen nor my heal skill. Heal skill does about 5k (plus regen) on a 25s CD and I apply regen to party upon water attunement twice (one for upon water attunement, one as a perma-regen while I stay on water -yes, they stack). Kinda beats 8k-9k heal on a 40s CD.

But again, I'm not sure on total self-heal abilities of guardians, but eles have great heal potentials and you shouldn't laugh at it
Although I agree that the OP is asking for something that doesn't really describe an ele.

Edited by oni88, 09 February 2013 - 10:25 PM.

[Evans]

I see what you're saying oni, and from a pure factual point of view you are right. However, to do those numbers you're putting forward you have to invest a great deal into it. While you are doing your 10 sec heal chains, you are contributing fairly little to the group really. You will also be hard pressed to heal several people with your burst as combat generally scatters players.

In comparison, a guardian can comfortably spread regen, protection and pure heal without breaking off his attack chain. It might be lower numbers, but they're making the fight go on.

But yes the main point is that the OP wants to facetank foes, and from that point of view chosing elementalist is laughable, no matter what build you pick.

[Segraine]

I built my ele as support, and I rarely have to use my self heal skill. Simply swapping to water attunement is enough to fill my heal back up near full from 50%. I am a lazy ele too despite playing staff. I found I don't really have to kite most of the time (in the open world). Simply attunement dancing and using my dodges offensively with traits is enough. If I am in danger, I just swap to water, splash, and swap to earth. No worries.

I noticed I can almost heal an ally from 20% or so health to nearly full with a good area heal. I'd say Eles are good burst self healers while Guardians are better healing over time.