25 replies to this topic

[Alilei22]

When I played DAoC you could move around from keep to keep using the portals then find someone with perma speed so you could then move around the map pretty quickly.  But every time I see a battle icon on my map most of the the time when I get there its over with and I dont see anyone.  Then the icon will pop up again halfway across the map.  Same thing, when I get there its over with.  How do you move around the map fast enough to get to the action before its over?

[Martiniam1]

There are a couple waypoints on each map you can use, other than that there is swiftness. If your looking for action its easiest to follow a commander around as they will get you into battles.

[Azure Skye]

I use always run buffs or skills that makes me move forward a lot.

[Tarkus]

Charr mounts....

Just kidding. If you are running with an organized guild, they usually will have continuous swiftness buffs running as well as occasional catchup portals if you fall behind the squad.

[Siroso]

I think most classes have ways of moving faster than swiftness speed (maybe not Necro?). For example, as a warrior my max speed comes not only from swiftness (from warhorn and signet of rage), but also through sword 2, greatsword 3+5, bulls charge and even shield bash. On ranger I would do greatsword rush, spin backwards and sword 2, spin again and leap forwards. These movement options do take a bit more effort, but if you need to get somewhere, or catch up, they are invaluable.

[Iryl]

Siroso, on 05 February 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

I think most classes have ways of moving faster than swiftness speed (maybe not Necro?). For example, as a warrior my max speed comes not only from swiftness (from warhorn and signet of rage), but also through sword 2, greatsword 3+5, bulls charge and even shield bash. On ranger I would do greatsword rush, spin backwards and sword 2, spin again and leap forwards. These movement options do take a bit more effort, but if you need to get somewhere, or catch up, they are invaluable.

Necro has a speedbuff on warhorn and a signet with passive +25% movement speed.

[Siroso]

Ah, k, do they have any movement skills that make you go faster than swiftness speed? Like Ele ride the lightning, Mesmer blink, or even a small rush forward on a skill or weapon skill?

[Dabrixmgp]

I dont understand why warriors dont have a 25% runspeed signet when Elementalists have one.  Really why they hell would they give a 25% runspeed signet to a class that already has by far the best mobility in the game.  Obviously you might not have all of these at the same time but the fact is they are there.


Ride the Lightening
Updraft
Windborne Speed
Zephy'rs Boon
One With Air
Elemental Attunement
Windborne Dagger
Glyph of Elemental Harmony

Thats 8 I can think of just running through a trait builder.  Never played an Ele very far so Im sure theres speed on other weapons Im missing.  Warriors have a signet for everything so why the hell isnt there one for movement when a class that has absolutely no need for one gets a 25% signet.

Edited by Dabrixmgp, 05 February 2013 - 02:13 PM.

[G L J]

Dabrixmgp, on 05 February 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

I dont understand why warriors dont have a 25% runspeed signet when Elementalists have one.  Really why they hell would they give a 25% runspeed signet to a class that already has by far the best mobility in the game.  Obviously you might not have all of these at the same time but the fact is they are there.

Because outside of their skills, Elementalists are quite squishy and easy to burst down compared to warriors.

The basic idea is that the 25% movement speed is to make it easier for classes to kite melee classes. Melee damage is, in general, higher than ranged damage for classes with both options. This presents a trade off of choosing higher damage that is harder to reliably get or lower damage that is easy to reliably get. If a class could keep someone in melee range 100% of the time, they wouldn't bother using range outside of extreme cases.

Granted, this breaks down in massive zergs where going into melee often means getting instagibbed

[Lilly32]

G L J, on 05 February 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

Because outside of their skills, Elementalists are quite squishy and easy to burst down compared to warriors.

The basic idea is that the 25% movement speed is to make it easier for classes to kite melee classes. Melee damage is, in general, higher than ranged damage for classes with both options. This presents a trade off of choosing higher damage that is harder to reliably get or lower damage that is easy to reliably get. If a class could keep someone in melee range 100% of the time, they wouldn't bother using range outside of extreme cases.

Granted, this breaks down in massive zergs where going into melee often means getting instagibbed

Thieves have a 25% signet and Guardians have perma Swiftness.  So the theory of making melees easier to kite doesnt really make sense.

[G L J]

Lilly32, on 05 February 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

Thieves have a 25% signet and Guardians have perma Swiftness.  So the theory of making melees easier to kite doesnt really make sense.

For a guardian to have permanent swiftness they have to bring a staff, which is one of their lowest DPS weapons. It also puts them in ranged mode for 7 seconds.

[Lilly32]

G L J, on 05 February 2013 - 10:07 PM, said:

For a guardian to have permanent swiftness they have to bring a staff, which is one of their lowest DPS weapons. It also puts them in ranged mode for 7 seconds.

But OP was just talking about moving around the WvW map to get to battles faster.  Who cares if you are locked into Staff?

[The Mighteous One]

The most important thing required to move quickly around the map (and I'm assuming you're playing on the three rookie maps) is the ability to absorb fall damage. When I was a WvW rookie like yourself, halving my fall damage via traits also halved my travel time. Then I learned that those 3 maps are just a diversion until you learn how to play enough to go into EB.

No need to thank me. All in a days work for The Greatest Player In The Game!

[Impmon]

Warrior - GS rush / whirlwind  both launch you forward & can be used to get away if necessary just don't have someone targetted, or sword in main hand savage leap also launches you forward.  Combines with signet of rage + trait to reduce cool down of signets 20% & trait that increases run speed with melee weapons

Elementalist - f--kton of movement increases but theres a cap forget what it is.  Anyways ride the lightning is fun and zaps you far ahead, or teleport, or just the one of 50 movement speed increase traits they have.

Guardian have retreat & save yourselves + staff which has low cooldown & with greatsword you can launch yourself ahead/away.  I've seen many guardians use that to get away from people.

[Buran_Grey]

Dabrixmgp, on 05 February 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

I dont understand why warriors dont have a 25% runspeed signet when Elementalists have one.  Really why they hell would they give a 25% runspeed signet to a class that already has by far the best mobility in the game.  Obviously you might not have all of these at the same time but the fact is they are there.

[...]

Thats 8 I can think of just running through a trait builder.  Never played an Ele very far so Im sure theres speed on other weapons Im missing.  Warriors have a signet for everything so why the hell isnt there one for movement when a class that has absolutely no need for one gets a 25% signet.

   Alone with Signet of Rage + runes of swiftness you will reach %100 swiftness, and with SoR + boon duration runes you will reach swiftness about 90% of time + perma-fury; that's without counting greatsword 2, 5, sword 2 or the warhorn. To be honest, as a Warrior I wouldn't waste a utility skill in something as a signet of 25% speed when I can get so much from my elite alone.

   Aside from my Warrior (which is the character I spent most of my time in WvW, before I entered in a guild)  I also use a cqc Guardian and now in the guild I even't bother about runes enhancing the boons: I shout retreat for the zerg and some other players spam their own skills and the swarm is always in perma-swiftness.

[Vante]

It depends on the class really or you could get the medkit from the karma vendor for the extra swiftness in case your class isnt really that fast

[ProfGast]

All classes in this game can in theory attain permanent swiftness or have a 25% movespeed signet.  Just some of them (like Guardian and Mesmer) have to jump through a few more hoops than others to get it.

Swiftness or 25% movespeed Sources:
Warrior: Warhorn 4, Signet of Rage, Banner(any) 3

Guardian: "Save Yourself!", Staff 3 (not stackable), "Retreat!"

Engineer: Speedy kits (Trait), Elixir B, Elixir H (Random), Throw Elixir H (Random), Throw Elixir B (Random), Medkit 5

Ranger: Warhorn 5, Signet of the Hunt.

Thief: Signet of Shadows.  They also have a trait that gives them swift on dodge but very low duration.

Elementalist: Staff Air 4, Signet of Air, Elemental Attunement: Air (trait), Glyph of Elemental Harmony (Air), Quickening Zephyr (Trait)
Mesmer: Focus 4 (not stackable), Signet of Inspiration (Random)

Necromancer: Warhorn 4, Spectral Walk, Signet of the Locust



In addition there are some universal speed boosters: Superior Rune of Air and Superior Run of the Centaur both grant swiftness on-heal use.  Using a "Blast" finisher on a "Lightning" field also casts aoe Swiftness (Lightning Field only available from Staff Air 5)


A number of classes also have "Leap" skills which move at an accelerated pace, teleports, or the odd skill that just moves the person faster than normal.  Here's a list off the top of my head:

Warrior: Sword 2, Shield 2, Greatsword 3, Greatsword 5, Banner 4, Bull's rush.

Guardian: Greatsword 3, Judge's Intervention, Hammer 2

Engineer: Slick shoes toolkit (++Swiftness), Elixir Gun 4 (Backwards)

Ranger: Greatsword 3, Sword 2 (Backwards), Sword 2-2, Lightning Reflexes (Backwards)

Thief: Dagger 2, Shortbow 5

Ele:Dagger Fire 3, Dagger Air 4, Lightning flash, Staff 4 (BackwardS), Lava Axe 3 (Backwards), Lava Axe 5, Lightning Hammer 2, Fiery GS 3, Fiery GS 4

Mesmer: Blink

Necro: Summon Flesh Wurm - Necrotic Traversal

I'm sure I missed a couple but like I said that's what I can think of right now.

[J E R I C O]

Movement speed increased by 33%; stacks duration.

Edited by J E R I C O, 20 February 2013 - 08:08 PM.

[DeagarFA]

https://www.youtube....h?v=GI8xrnOrftM

Edited by DeagarFA, 20 February 2013 - 08:31 PM.

[Jio Derako]

Just throwing in a bit of extra info for increasing mobility on some classes...

Thief has Withdraw and Roll for Initiative, both of which throw you a fair distance backwards (RfI has a fairly long CD but also grants more Initiative, great for spamming Shortbow 5; Withdraw is a 15s CD; both also remove cripple and chill).
"but these both throw you backwards, that's counter productive!"
I forget if it's bound to a key by default, but find and bind the "about-face" key somewhere you can get at it easily. This'll spin you a full 180 instantly; tap it, hit your skill, then get yourself moving forwards again with either a second tap or just right-click (I prefer the latter, I can do it quickly and there's no worries of missing the timing on the about-face). You can cover a massive amount of ground with this technique; it's absolutely insane when used underwater, dunno why but Withdraw and RfI go much further when used underwater, much much faster than anyone with Swiftness.

Same technique applies to Elementalists with a Staff, they have a backwards roll when attuned to fire (though really, you should be dual-daggers if you want to get places fast, because of Fire 3 and Air 4). Staff Mesmers also have a similar tool in their 2 skill, plus you can drop a clone if you've got someone targeted (might throw chasers off a bit, they won't be expecting you to blink forwards).
I think a few other classes have backwards dodges as well, though I don't know them off the top of my head.

I usually play as Thief in WvW, so it's all Signet of Shadows (25% boost) and Shortbow 5 spam; I usually keep Hide in Shadows as my heal so I can abuse stealth for solo-sneaking, but Withdraw is a good alternative if you're concerned about cripples or immobilizes (it's also on a shorter CD than the other heals). You can cross the map pretty quickly in this manner, and all the stealth/evasion the Thief has also grants you access to a few more dangerous shortcuts, such as straight through enemy bases.

[MrForz]

As you can see, it's class related, and one or two of them do it much better than everyone else, leading to an infestation.

[CalmLittleBuddy]

G L J, on 05 February 2013 - 10:07 PM, said:

For a guardian to have permanent swiftness they have to bring a staff, which is one of their lowest DPS weapons. It also puts them in ranged mode for 7 seconds.

Staff Skill 4. Problem solved.

[Lunacy Polish]

G L J, on 05 February 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

Because outside of their skills, Elementalists are quite squishy and easy to burst down compared to warriors.

I am sorry but I fund that rather humorous.   Elementalists are some of my hardest opponents as a Warrior precisely because they are sturdier than anything but a Guardian.  I may have a big initial advantage but I lack recovery abilities like ellies have and their condition removal is constant enough that my usual Weakness and Vulnerability tools don't stick long enough to win a war of attrition.

Warrior Burst damage doesn't make it inherently fair either. Warrior damage spikes are all tied to weapons skills and easily avoided.  To be fair the attunement swapping hat trick ellies use to burst telegraphs itself pretty badly too but my big hits do not come nearly as frequently as an Ellie can rotate attunements; your dodge energy can keep up with a warrior's spike abilities but not an Ellie's (the warrior does have higher potential if it lands is the trade off).  With no endurance you basically have to eat the hit or  be kited.

Where warriors have an advantage is knockdowns dazes etc.  Ellie cannot do much about those and it is the only way to win.  The main limit here is that if you miss any step of your lockdown chain Ellie will just RTL and fight over (not quite as effective now it seems but still present).

Also warrior control abilities are generally among the less damaging the profession has.  My hammer burst knockback knockdown weapon swap mace knockdown mace daze combo will only get most ellies 75% dead.  I am on long cooldowns at that point and Ellie will be at 90% health in 8 seconds.

My point is that warrior vs. Ellie is no mismatch.  When I beat an Ellie it is usually either a new player trying to kite me and nuke me to death or a fight that generally ends only when a third party tips the scales.  Beating an Ellie who has figured the profession out is a 50/50 proposition.

All that is fair.  But what is not fair is that even after the patch an Ellie has AoE disengagement abilities and way more combo fields plus the nifty ability to protect and destroy siege equipment.   To be clear Ellie is not that powerful outside of certain builds and it is often easily destroyed if you run something like a support build.

But squishy they currently are not.  I will fight a thief or guardian first any day.

Anyway this thing with the speed signets kind of....sucks.  It is just common enough I engineer all my builds to account for it now.

I really feel for professions that do not have multiple swiftness options like I do.  I pack a Warhorn all the time just in case to help a brother out.

[CalmLittleBuddy]

I want speed bosts that last an hour and can be bought with badges.

[Al Shamari]

Always have the signet on my utility bar as my Thief, then the #5 short bow skill that teleports a small distance. Spam until out of initiative, spin around (so you're running backwards for a moment) and use Roll of Initiative, this not only acts as a pretty good forward movement tool if you use the trick of spinning around, it also allows for more #5 spam.

[astemalineath]

Jio Derako, on 02 March 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

Just throwing in a bit of extra info for increasing mobility on some classes...

Thief has Withdraw and Roll for Initiative, both of which throw you a fair distance backwards (RfI has a fairly long CD but also grants more Initiative, great for spamming Shortbow 5; Withdraw is a 15s CD; both also remove cripple and chill).
"but these both throw you backwards, that's counter productive!"
I forget if it's bound to a key by default, but find and bind the "about-face" key somewhere you can get at it easily. This'll spin you a full 180 instantly; tap it, hit your skill, then get yourself moving forwards again with either a second tap or just right-click (I prefer the latter, I can do it quickly and there's no worries of missing the timing on the about-face). You can cover a massive amount of ground with this technique; it's absolutely insane when used underwater, dunno why but Withdraw and RfI go much further when used underwater, much much faster than anyone with Swiftness.

Same technique applies to Elementalists with a Staff, they have a backwards roll when attuned to fire (though really, you should be dual-daggers if you want to get places fast, because of Fire 3 and Air 4). Staff Mesmers also have a similar tool in their 2 skill, plus you can drop a clone if you've got someone targeted (might throw chasers off a bit, they won't be expecting you to blink forwards).
I think a few other classes have backwards dodges as well, though I don't know them off the top of my head.

I usually play as Thief in WvW, so it's all Signet of Shadows (25% boost) and Shortbow 5 spam; I usually keep Hide in Shadows as my heal so I can abuse stealth for solo-sneaking, but Withdraw is a good alternative if you're concerned about cripples or immobilizes (it's also on a shorter CD than the other heals). You can cross the map pretty quickly in this manner, and all the stealth/evasion the Thief has also grants you access to a few more dangerous shortcuts, such as straight through enemy bases.

As for the mesmer blink, it will always blink you *away* from the targeted enemy, so you don't need to face backwards!