76 replies to this topic

[Trei]

Sandpit, on 06 February 2013 - 02:51 AM, said:

It is frustrating that dodging well in combat does not give you credit for this daily. I have been in many (solo) combats where I have taken no damage because I get out of the way and dodge but never get an evade because I am safe before the critical moment to get an evade. I do generally find myself having to orchestrate some points by letting mobs hit me and dodge way later than I normally would.

This is a symptom of a stupid daily mechanic. Seriously, Daily Dodger really needs to go.

Daily Dodger does not literally refer solely to the Dodge mechanic.
Technically, it is triggered by you getting hit by an attack while having an Evade effect on yourself.
Otherwise, it would be that your opponent simply missed, not that you actively evaded something.

What you consider as "dodging well" may not always be so.
I am of the opinion that if you were able to completely dodge an attack without it eventually "hitting" you anyway while you still have that effect up, you probably didn't need to waste the endurance in the first place ie: ettins.
Thus that is inefficient use of your dodge bar.

This daily is meant more for the split second evades from quick strikes or hostile area effects mobs give no warning for.
If dailies are even meant to teach anything at all, it would for players to learn to anticipate or recognize such attacks.

That's why any action that allows you to garner an "evaded" HUD message will count, including skills and abilities listed in this page as well as even properly timed leaps.

Edited by Trei, 06 February 2013 - 03:49 AM.

[AKGeo]

Sorry but the people complaining about regular players coming along and killing their dodge machine are those who are simply bad at the game. I don't say that as a generalization often, but I will. They've played the game to their current level without dodging, expecting their party to keep them alive and likely cursing the game saying "this is broken!", and now are only logging in to do the dailies for their ascended gear thinking that's what they need to do in order to be up to date when it's "fixed".

That's my take on it. Because honestly, going way out of your way just to dodge an enemy or sit around waiting for NPCs to die is counter to the "efficiency" argument on all counts.

[Coren]

AKGeo, on 06 February 2013 - 03:46 AM, said:

Sorry but the people complaining about regular players coming along and killing their dodge machine are those who are simply bad at the game. I don't say that as a generalization often, but I will. They've played the game to their current level without dodging, expecting their party to keep them alive and likely cursing the game saying "this is broken!", and now are only logging in to do the dailies for their ascended gear thinking that's what they need to do in order to be up to date when it's "fixed".

That's my take on it. Because honestly, going way out of your way just to dodge an enemy or sit around waiting for NPCs to die is counter to the "efficiency" argument on all counts.

Pretty much this. I normally.take.the side.of.the *every day* person, but I'm sorry, tagging a group.for.your own personal dodging.time is both selfish and.counter productive, not to mention more time.consuming than simply playing the game normally.

If you're the kind.of.person who never dodges.then I'm sorry (yet again) but GW2 isn't for you. Dodging is.essential to.survival along with skills, not.just t get 20% more on your daily.

[Concepcion30]

There is a no hassle way to get daily dodges, Make a thief jump in the water and use a spear. Chain use shadow assault and boom, in under 2 minutes you have all your dodges in.  You don't have to try to time anything here because that skill just does it for you.

[Ingway]

I don't bother with it much, the map is litterred with mobs all around if i want i can just go to cursed shore find one of those plague mobs and wait for him to do that fast paced attack, 5 dodges in 1

[Millimidget]

AKGeo, on 06 February 2013 - 01:10 AM, said:

Well, you could always go dodge another one elsewhere.

Sounds like that's what was being done, until you stumbled upon him.

Coren, on 06 February 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

If you're the kind.of.person who never dodges.then I'm sorry (yet again) but GW2 isn't for you.

Talk about a * community.

We can't even have inspect feature because some * casual is too scared someone will call them out for their lack of effort at maintaining their gear, and yet we're subjected to some level of griefing because casuals can't be asked to be considerate of others.

Edited by Millimidget, 07 February 2013 - 03:52 AM.

[Sandpit]

So, we start without a problem
ANet introduces a new mechanic
Now we have a problem

And that is the players fault?

I would take a different view.

[Darkobra]

If you've managed to complete GW2 without ever dodging, you need to tell us your secrets.

[ParanoidKami]

I get my daily dodges without even trying. If I see someone dodging a mob or whatever I'll just kill it as I see it as an easy mob to farm. Tons of enemies for loot and they're not attacking me. If you actually need to farm dodges go somewhere secluded.

[AKGeo]

Millimidget, on 06 February 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

Sounds like that's what was being done, until you stumbled upon him.

Yup. And he can do it again.

[infisio]

If (and i mean IF) I don't get the daily dodges done through the course of normal play, and I have to go somewhere to "get dodges," then I know I'm doing it at my own risk.  If I'm dodging something in Orr and someone helps me out - great!  Thank you for the help!  I'd rather players continue to help others out than hesitate while trying to decide if the person is dodge farming or not.

[Strawberry Nubcake]

Sandpit, on 06 February 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

So, we start without a problem
ANet introduces a new mechanic
Now we have a problem

And that is the players fault?

I would take a different view.

I guess a few questions I had for a while were answered if some people really do think dodging was added last week...

They didn't add a new mechanic and I don't think the problem is dodging or the achievement.  It's players and their "Me! Me! Me! It's all about me!" attitudes.  Someone comes along and kills the stuff you were farming?  So what?!  There are plenty more where those came from!  There's a good chance that the person that came into "your" territory won't hang around unless you get butthurt and make a big deal about it in chat.  Some people might stay to "help" you kill everything if you want to be like that.  

Darkobra, on 06 February 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:

If you've managed to complete GW2 without ever dodging, you need to tell us your secrets.

Their secret is spending every coin they get on waypoints and repairs.

Edited by Strawberry Nubcake, 06 February 2013 - 08:45 PM.

[Darkobra]

Strawberry Nubcake, on 06 February 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

Their secret is spending every coin they get on waypoints and repairs.

So the people that have spent their time complaining about the 2 silver waypoint costs eating all their money are people I should be blacklisting as players to NEVER play with! I've always wondered why people considered that an extortionate amount. That answers that! Because they're costing themselves 2 silver every 30 seconds!

[Sandpit]

You are missing the point. It's not about an individual that doesn't spend cash on a waypoint, it's not about an individual that doesn't like  you killing his dodge farm.

It's about a game design that encourages this behaviour in a player base that is detrimental to the whole game and community aspect.

People are people, some good, some average, some poor. Game design has to cater for this so a mechanic that makes poor players disruptive to better players is a bad mechanic for everyone.

You can sit there berating the quality of players all you like, but the behaviour will continue until the waypont cost is removed, the daily dodge is removed, or there aren't any more poor players.

Poor players aren't ging to disappear anytime soon, and in fact ANet needs them to keep the game going; they would have folded a long time ago if only the good players played.

[Tregarde]

I appreciate help. Period.

If someone helping just happens to mean I have to find another mob to get my daily dodges, oh well. No biggie. It's not like it's hard to find another fight.

One of the things I like about GW2 is that you CAN help someone without taking away their kill credit, without taking away XP, without taking away from the loot.

Edited by Tregarde, 06 February 2013 - 09:12 PM.

[Strawberry Nubcake]

Sandpit, on 06 February 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

You are missing the point. It's not about an individual that doesn't spend cash on a waypoint, it's not about an individual that doesn't like  you killing his dodge farm.

It's about a game design that encourages this behaviour in a player base that is detrimental to the whole game and community aspect.

People are people, some good, some average, some poor. Game design has to cater for this so a mechanic that makes poor players disruptive to better players is a bad mechanic for everyone.

You can sit there berating the quality of players all you like, but the behaviour will continue until the waypont cost is removed, the daily dodge is removed, or there aren't any more poor players.

Poor players aren't ging to disappear anytime soon, and in fact ANet needs them to keep the game going; they would have folded a long time ago if only the good players played.

The game encourages people to help others and not worry about people attacking whatever you are.  You know... that whole lack of kill stealing thing.  Nobody owns the mobs they are attacking or the area they are farming in.  Stop pretending they do.

What we have here is a problem created by players.  It sort of reminds me of a thread we had a few months ago where few people were complaining about others helping them with veterans and champions they wanted to solo.  Anet didn't tell us to piss off a bunch of raptors and dance around with them for 5 minutes.  They told us to dodge 15 attacks.  How you choose to do it is up to you, but don't act like people that play the game exactly like they did before the update are a problem.

Nobody should have to change how they play just because you don't care for the achievement and feel like dodge farming is necessary.  It's not.  Many of us get it done in the same amount of time or less just by playing normally.  Not having to stop to say "omg go away noob!  if u see sum1 not attkin sumthing they dont need ur hlp!  *ing noobs!!" and then bash anyone that tells you to get over it helps a bit.  Just saying.  (You may not do that, but I've seen several that do.)

Edited by Strawberry Nubcake, 06 February 2013 - 11:27 PM.

[Darkobra]

You lost me at removing waypoint costs somehow improving the community. In fact, it raised a few flags.

Edited by Darkobra, 06 February 2013 - 11:47 PM.

[Sandpit]

Strawberry Nubcake, on 06 February 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

The game encourages people to help others and not worry about people attacking whatever you are.  You know... that whole lack of kill stealing thing.  Nobody owns the mobs they are attacking or the area they are farming in.  Stop pretending they do.

What we have here is a problem created by players.  It sort of reminds me of a thread we had a few months ago where few people were complaining about others helping them with veterans and champions they wanted to solo.  Anet didn't tell us to piss off a bunch of raptors and dance around with them for 5 minutes.  They told us to dodge 15 attacks.  How you choose to do it is up to you, but don't act like people that play the game exactly like they did before the update are a problem.

Nobody should have to change how they play just because you don't care for the achievement and feel like dodge farming is necessary.  It's not.  Many of us get it done in the same amount of time or less just by playing normally.  Not having to stop to say "omg go away noob!  if u see sum1 not attkin sumthing they dont need ur hlp!  *ing noobs!!" and then bash anyone that tells you to get over it helps a bit.  Just saying.  (You may not do that, but I've seen several that do.)

We are not onto kill stealing, drop that idea, nobody says it is. It's being helpful having an undesirable effect for some players. That has to be bad, helping players should always be a good result, this is why daily dodger is bad.

Feel free to tell everyone they are doing it wrong, it won't solve the (new) problem that has been introduced. Yes you are right, it is the players that are doing this, but they are only doing it because that is how they think the quickest way to meet the new achievements is, and maybe for them it is! But good luck trying to teach them, just don't expect your efforts to change things one jot.

Some players are bad, deal with it. If ANet introduces a new mechanic that makes those players behave in an unanticipated way, it is ANet's problem to solve, not all the players individually, because the latter will not happen.

Edited by Sandpit, 07 February 2013 - 01:25 AM.

[lazy thief]

Sandpit, on 07 February 2013 - 01:23 AM, said:

Some players are bad, deal with it. If ANet introduces a new mechanic that makes those players behave in an unanticipated way, it is ANet's problem to solve, not all the players individually, because the latter will not happen.

So it's Anet's fault that players are bad? Oookay.

[DonZardeone]

GUISE GUISE

Be ranger
Equip greatsword
Round up some mobs
Kill with greatsword autoattacks

Greatsword has dodge built-in on either the second or third chain attack.

[Tellia]

lazy thief, on 07 February 2013 - 03:33 AM, said:

So it's Anet's fault that players are bad? Oookay.

dont read the forum much? everything is anets fault.

[Craywulf]

Despite the individual daily achievements, PvE is entirely cooperative venture. You have a whole 24 hours to land enough dodges to credit towards your daily. As people already pointed out, it's quite possible to do this with very little effort, and just play the game as is. Furthermore if you think a player "stealing" your kill, then you're already in wrong frame of mind. PvE is not just about you. It's about playing together, and treating other players as part of the environment. Including accepting the notion that someone might actually come over and assist you in killing a mob, whether you wanted their help or not.

To put in other words....this is a MMO, NOT a single player RPG.

[zwei2stein]

Craywulf, on 07 February 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

You have a whole 24 hours to land enough dodges to credit towards your daily.

No, you don't. In fact, I dare you to try your incredibly stupid idea of playing game for 24 hours straight.

Sometimes, you have hour or 30 minutes because that is the time you have to play, sometimes - and that is very often, you have zero to negative time, as in "i want to log off and i did everything, but i am still missing dodges (or healer)"

Dodges are wrongly attributed for waiting till last spliseccond before attack lands - and that is incredibly stupid thing to do given how mobs have access to stuns/immobilizes and knockdowns.

Not to mention that playing game as is also means that people can and do kill mobs unharmed by proper use of controll abilities and never have to dodge.

[AKGeo]

zwei2stein, on 07 February 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

No, you don't. In fact, I dare you to try your incredibly stupid idea of playing game for 24 hours straight.

Sometimes, you have hour or 30 minutes because that is the time you have to play, sometimes - and that is very often, you have zero to negative time, as in "i want to log off and i did everything, but i am still missing dodges (or healer)"

Dodges are wrongly attributed for waiting till last spliseccond before attack lands - and that is incredibly stupid thing to do given how mobs have access to stuns/immobilizes and knockdowns.

Not to mention that playing game as is also means that people can and do kill mobs unharmed by proper use of controll abilities and never have to dodge.

Then you don't get the daily rewards. What, do you want a free laurel just for logging in?

Phht.

Go into WvW. Dodge some arrow carts. Leave WvW. Go kill stuff in queensdale and do some events that pop every 2 minutes. Do the rest after all that. If dodging is the biggest one, that's solved. For gathering, make it profitable and go to Path of Starry Skies waypoint, there are always kodan littering the hills even for your revive daily. Farm the ancient wood and orichalcum. Farm as much ancient wood as you can get. Bring the price down so it isn't painful to make 250 shortbow staves for a single weapon.

the game should NOT reward players who log in just for a half hour as those who play more. Sorry. Casual game, sure. You can play the game casually. But if you expect to get Best in Slot items as fast as someone who plays much much more, that's just off.

I expect to have my daily gameplay time cut drastically in the coming weeks to months. Hopefully. I'm trying to get what I can now, before I have to suck it up and say "well...guess I'm not getting the daily today!" Because I will end up doing that regularly. And I'm fine with it...it means I'm spending more time being productive in the real world.

Edited by AKGeo, 07 February 2013 - 11:34 AM.

[Kratimas]

Yes, and if you see someone standing their watching an NPC die, don't go in and help the NPC let them die so, we can rez the NPC for the Healer daily.

[BrettM]

AKGeo, on 07 February 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

the game should NOT reward players who log in just for a half hour as those who play more.

The whole point of having the dailies in the first place was to level the playing field a bit for casuals, reducing the income gap between those who can only play for short periods each day and those who play for longer periods. The dailies are supposed to give reasonably high rewards in a short period.

[zwei2stein]

BrettM, on 07 February 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

The whole point of having the dailies in the first place was to level the playing field a bit for casuals, reducing the income gap between those who can only play for short periods each day and those who play for longer periods. The dailies are supposed to give reasonably high rewards in a short period.

Bingo.

Hardcores who can devote Solid 10 hours to one game session get their ascended rings in one afternoon.

Casuals will get them in month or two.

I think that is big enough difference to avoid snickering about rewarding casual style time spent per day.

[Smallie]

I think the problem is for the daily dodge is, what zwei2stein said, that the time between the dodge and the actual attack is to short for it to be counted as an evade. When I see this big ettin swaying his club back, and even when I wait a little bit, more often then not I don't get an evade, while I have succesfully dodged an attack. In my opinion the time should be increased a little, and we would see a lot less people "dancing with raptors".

[dondarrion]

Never had an issue doing the dodging part, and I think you're just setting yourself up for some unnecessary raging if you expect everyone else to let you fight alone in this game. It goes against everything GW2 is about and people have come around to get their bearings on.

What, you need to dodge about 10 times, there's an abundance of places (WvW, PvP PvE both low and high level zones), where you can get this done in a matter of minutes. And I'm playing on a medium-high population world, I believe.

[lazy thief]

Tellia, on 07 February 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

dont read the forum much? everything is anets fault.

Haha true, I don't.

Anyway, there are plenty of skills that will get you your dodges without you even knowing about it. Do a little research, find out what are those for your profession, go play the game using those skills and boom, profit!