19 replies to this topic

[Epitaph_Blade]

First of all, I dont have fancy pictures or do I intend to copy Red Falcon's build, I've been working on this by myself for a time.
Also, I'm not native english speaker, so forgive any mistake or ask if something doesn't make sense.

Warrior of All Boons

Warrior of All Boons is a build trying to benefit from certain traits in order to generate synergies around having boons (which any and all classes in the game can provide)


First, the traits:

30 STR : [ II ] Restorative Strength (cond remov), [ V ]:Berserker's Power (damage), [ IX ]: Slashing Power (more damage, variable)
20 ARM: [ v ] Rending Strikes (cond +dmg), [ X ]Forceful Greatsword (MIGHT)
0 Def
10 TAC: [ VI ] Empowered (dmg +synergy)
10 DIC: [ VI] Signet Mastery (synergy)

This traits are selected to gain 3 major synergies in the game:

1° : You want "Restorative Strength" so your heal skill removes crippled, chilled, immobilize, and weakness. You will be using the healing skill "Mending" which also removes "2 conditions". The game will apply the trait first, so if you have any other condition, mending will remove 2. This make Mending a massive condition removal, because is very common that in a heavy condition situation, no more than 2 extra conditions are affecting  you, apart from the ones "Restorative Strength" removes. (First Synergy)

2°: You want Empowered because we will be using runes of Lyssa, that gives us all boons on usage of elite, and a random boon on usage of heal. This gives us a burst power of 18% extra damage (only for counting boons) for 5 seconds. Enough time to connect a high burst damage skill, like 100blades. Also giving us the boons we need to keep hitting with it (stability)(aegis)(regeneration)(etc)

3°: You want Forceful Greatsword because we will be using GS as our main weapon, also, we will be using major sigil of strength for might on crits. Plus the might "Signet of Might" gives us, and "For Great Justice!", also "Signet of Rage" we will have, easily the max stacks of crits. If not, at least 17 stacks.

4°: You want Signet Mastery in order to reduce the cool down of 2 of our skills, increasing the overall might we get over time. (this is an extra synergy that works with the other 3)

I reckon you can change 10 points in Strength, and put them in Tactics, so you can benefit from warhorn trait, or reduce the cooldown of the shouts (I'm still testing what is best, if the 10% damage with GS or those options)


The equipment so far will be this:

Headgear: Knight's + Superior Rune of Lyssa
Shoulders: Berserker's + Superior Rune of Lyssa
Chest: Knight's + Superior Rune of Lyssa
Gloves: Berserker's + Superior Rune of Lyssa
Leggings: Knight's + Superior Rune of Lyssa
Boots: Berserker's + Superior Rune of Lyssa

Back : Cavalier Spineguard + Exquisite Ruby JeweL
Amulet: Emerald Orichalcum Amulet + Exquisite Ruby Jewel (soon to be replaced with ascended
Earring 1: Beryl Orichalcum Earring + Exquisite Beryl Jewel
Earring 2: Ruby Orichalcum Earring + Exquisite Ruby Jewel
Ring 1: Solaria, Circle of the Sun + Versatile Mighty Infusion
Ring 2: Crystalline Band (infused) + Versatile Mighty Infusion

Weapon 1: Berserker's Greatsword + Superior Sigil of Strength
Weapon 2: Berserker's Axe + (sigil of preference)
offhand: Berserker's warhorn + (sigil of endurance on swap)
Weapon 3: Berserker's Rifle + (sigil of preference) (for boss battles or ranged need)

Food: Omnomberry Pie (90 Prec) can be replaced but less crit chance
the other thingy: whatever you want (anything improve the build)

Numbers...

Total HP: 20,312
Attack Base (no boon): 3161
Attack with Might (25): 4036
You must apply %dmg over this.

Armor: 2591
Base Crit Chance: 54%
Crit Chance with fury: 74%
Crit Damage Factor: 1.91 (191% dmg)

What I liked about runes of Lyssa isn't only the cool boon generator, but the high Prec you get from them.
That inspired me to make a build with high crit chance, high damage, but also decent armor. My weakness was the low vit, and to protect myself from conditions, I use the massive cond removals I have.


If you need a third massive cond removal, you can use the Free Utility Skill Slot with the "Signet of Stamina" which removes all conditions. In PvP I change that for "Bull's Charge" or "Frenzy", depends on my team. In Dungeons you may want to use "Balanced Stance" or "Endure Pain".

As you can see, this is a very versatile build, that can be used anywhere. You do really high damage, and you benefit from any support you are given in terms of extra damage.

I have to make you all a humble request, to finish this build. This is my personal build, the one I use, so if you can criticise it, to make it better, that would be very much appreciated.

Hope my english is not that bad, and that you may find this build enjoyable.

Bye!


PD: I used Sonic Boon spreadsheet to get the exact numbers, also tested ingame. Thanks for the spreadsheet, was very helpful.
PD2: Im thinking on how to improve this build with ascended trinkets, will update if I find anything new on that area.

Edited by Epitaph_Blade, 06 February 2013 - 04:13 AM.

[lmaonade]

Why Solaria?

[Dirame]

Personally, I tried the boon boosting with one of my dps specs ( not GS related) and the boons really didn't add much, in fact the runes dropped my crit damage and pure damage making me crit for less than I would normally and even hit for less than I would normally so I don't endorse this boon mongering.

[Red_Falcon]

Nice but needs min/maxing.

I for one would go with:
- Full zerker gear instead of knight's pieces.
- Absolutely no wasting of 10 points for restorative strength (you have SoS for conditions) but get those points into Disc for 9% crit chance and 10% crit dmg.

Also pretty useless to get Lyssa runes when you have insufficient boon duration.
You'd be better off getting boon duration runes so you can keep up SoR buffs forever which is ultimately a more reliable damage increase (6-8% from just your own boons, plus 2% for each boon you're given from team), plus you have 100% uptime on SoR.

Once tweakest like this it should easily give the most DPS a Warrior build could possibly ever get.
Of course you don't have any native survivability outside your dodges and EP to get this result.

[Thaddeuz]

Personnally, i prefer keeping my HP as low as possible (the Basic 18K is high enough). I rather use only Knight/Berserker gear mix to stay roughly with the same offensive stats, but replacing the vitality with toughness.

[Epitaph_Blade]

lmaonade, on 06 February 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

Why Solaria?

That's a personal choice in order to keep the 20k+ HP and high toughness

Red_Falcon, on 06 February 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

Nice but needs min/maxing.

I for one would go with:
- Full zerker gear instead of knight's pieces.
- Absolutely no wasting of 10 points for restorative strength (you have SoS for conditions) but get those points into Disc for 9% crit chance and 10% crit dmg.

Also pretty useless to get Lyssa runes when you have insufficient boon duration.
You'd be better off getting boon duration runes so you can keep up SoR buffs forever which is ultimately a more reliable damage increase (6-8% from just your own boons, plus 2% for each boon you're given from team), plus you have 100% uptime on SoR.

Once tweakest like this it should easily give the most DPS a Warrior build could possibly ever get.
Of course you don't have any native survivability outside your dodges and EP to get this result.

Restorative strength is one of the basis of the build, not a waste in my opinion.
SoS is not mandatory for this build, because it will leave you with fixed utility slots, and you lose all versatiliy because of that. Sometimes you need Endure Pain or extra stability from Balanced Stance.

Full zerker armor makes you a glass cannon, and for glass cannon there are better builds, a mix between knight and zerker gives you enough resistance to be able to last in the fight.

About boon duration runes, not needed. I easily get 25 stacks of might, fury is not a problem, and you lose the most important buff you get (even for 6s) from Lyssa: Stability. I've found myself surrounded by mobs with knock down, and using SoR, getting all boons, FGJ + SoM (both wont stop your 100blades channeling) let you kill an entire mob and saving the team. This also applies to WvW.

I dont know, To me, is not about trying to maintain the boons, but about using them when you have them. If I focus on maintaining high damage bonus while sacrificing other aspects of the build, I believe I will be losing important factors needed to maintain DPS. Dodgning wont let you attack, if you're not able to stand and hold your ground while doing damage, then your dps will be low, even if in the paper it is very high.

[Red_Falcon]

Epitaph_Blade, on 06 February 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

Restorative strength is one of the basis of the build, not a waste in my opinion.
SoS is not mandatory for this build, because it will leave you with fixed utility slots, and you lose all versatiliy because of that. Sometimes you need Endure Pain or extra stability from Balanced Stance.

Full zerker armor makes you a glass cannon, and for glass cannon there are better builds, a mix between knight and zerker gives you enough resistance to be able to last in the fight.

About boon duration runes, not needed. I easily get 25 stacks of might, fury is not a problem, and you lose the most important buff you get (even for 6s) from Lyssa: Stability. I've found myself surrounded by mobs with knock down, and using SoR, getting all boons, FGJ + SoM (both wont stop your 100blades channeling) let you kill an entire mob and saving the team. This also applies to WvW.

I dont know, To me, is not about trying to maintain the boons, but about using them when you have them. If I focus on maintaining high damage bonus while sacrificing other aspects of the build, I believe I will be losing important factors needed to maintain DPS. Dodgning wont let you attack, if you're not able to stand and hold your ground while doing damage, then your dps will be low, even if in the paper it is very high.

Resto is useless once you l2p imo, unless we're talking about pvp (even there, mobile strikes and secondary set sword/warhorn does the trick).
All it does is removing slowdowns which is more of a pvp thing, in pve it's not much of a problem to be slowed especially on a Warrior -  and it doesn't happen frequently enough to justify a trait slot.
Also, having 100 more armor won't make you any less of a glass cannon than a pure glass cannon.
I tested 200 armor to give only about 16% damage reduction, you sacrifice damage for unnoticiable returns.

Anyways it's your build, just wanted to give some pointers to make it better but whatever floats your boat.
Even unmodded it's still a good build.

[Stigma]

HAHAHAHAHA.... sorry this thread made my day when I woke up this morning.. despite the fact that i'm sure you already made this warrior concept before Red Falcon. I've learned to just not bother debating trait selections with anyone. Red Falcon and I would never agree on trait selections... like ever. And that's just how it is. People have different play styles and our logic seems to be different as to what is efficient and better.

Here with due credit i've changed the title of my spreadsheet. Also the Attack stat in the Hero window is just a summation of Max Weapon strength (ie 1100) and Power. The damage contributed from your weapon is a random value from the Min and Max values stated on the weapon. The Attack stat takes the Maximum possible weapon strength and adds it to your total Power.  It's just Anet's Layman way of gauging your damage potential so it's useless when knowing how much damage you're really dealing. In reality, +% Damage should be multiplied to the Base Damage which is a multiple of Power and Weapon Strength.

I'm not going to state my opinion on this build at all except just say that Epitaph Blade's build actually includes Might generation and took more advantage of the Critical portion of the damage equation than Red Falcon's 9 Boon build.

Expected damage = Base damage * ((0.50 + (Critical Damage / 100)) * (Critical Chance / 100) + 1)

I'll just provide you with the calculations and compare it with a variety of other builds.  I threw in Sonic Boon as it's the obvious comparison since you both use Empowered. I've included armor, HP, heal values, etc So make your own choices as to which builds are better for you.

So with apples to apples....

Edited by Stigma, 06 February 2013 - 07:45 PM.

[Red_Falcon]

Lol, your math is off again Stigma.
I'm starting to wonder if you "accidentaly" tweak these numbers to support your points, but I'll just take this as a mistake.
How in the hell is a full glass cannon getting 60 percent more crit damage over my build, when the actual difference is 12% (ruby orbs in place of my runes)?
When you pick wrong calculations it's easy to be misled and not understand why some builds are good.

Anyways, the good thing is that builds are playstyle-dependant.
I for one love to get 100 damage and 100 survivability, others like to have 110 damage and 0 survivability, others again 50 damage and 150 survivability.
None is "wrong", unless the returns are not matching the losses, i.e. bad trades like getting resto strength in place of 20 disc points in the OP build.

Builds are not rocket science.
I've been doing builds for GW1 for 8 years, many of which forced Anet to nerf, and GW2 is even easier.
It's actually just high school maths here really, take it easy.

Edited by Red_Falcon, 06 February 2013 - 08:51 PM.

[crosswound81]

this build is good why hasn't anyone come up with it before? been trying it today.

[Epitaph_Blade]

@Stigma

Awesome! Thanks you for the data, that is very helpful!

I have some questions tho, the HP my build seems to get in your data is like 500 less than what I get in the spreadsheet/ingame Not a big deal tho.

This helped me understand much better what am I gaining and sacrificing in comparison with the other builds, and I like it.

(for confirmation I will give you the data about VIT since is what I find different from my calculations)
100 vit from Trait
40 from Beryl Amulet
15 from Beryl Gem on amulet
39 from Ring Solaria

= 1940 extra hp + 18372 base HP = 20312 HP

thank you bro!

Edited by Epitaph_Blade, 06 February 2013 - 09:33 PM.

[Stigma]

Red_Falcon, on 06 February 2013 - 08:46 PM, said:

Lol, your math is off again Stigma.
I'm starting to wonder if you "accidentaly" tweak these numbers to support your points, but I'll just take this as a mistake.
How in the hell is a full glass cannon getting 60 percent more crit damage over my build, when the actual difference is 12% (ruby orbs in place of my runes)?
When you pick wrong calculations it's easy to be misled and not understand why some builds are good.

Anyways, the good thing is that builds are playstyle-dependant.
I for one love to get 100 damage and 100 survivability, others like to have 110 damage and 0 survivability, others again 50 damage and 150 survivability.
None is "wrong", unless the returns are not matching the losses, i.e. bad trades like getting resto strength in place of 20 disc points in the OP build.

Builds are not rocket science.
I've been doing builds for GW1 for 8 years, many of which forced Anet to nerf, and GW2 is even easier.
It's actually just high school maths here really, take it easy.

Sure my calculations could be off somewhere. It's a lot to juggle all at once especially at 5AM and also when Anet hides alot of how they calculate things from the Stat window but I was lucky enough to have both berserker gear and "sonic boon" runes and knight gear on me. I did make a mistake this morning after I posted it and counted the +10% damage twice... added an extra 10% damage to both Boon builds in your favor actually which I have corrected in the afternoon.

The difference of a the builds isn't just the ruby runes, it's also how you traited your character. You completely ignored the Critical Multiplier portion of the damage equation and you abandoned Might entirely. You can fully see this when you compare your build to Epitaph Blade's build. Both builds use Rune of Lyssa and yet his does more damage than yours and is lot closer to "Berserker" damage would exactly indicate why. Pay attention to where all the % damage and % criticals come from.

There are no "fudge" numbers here. All variables are taken directly from GW2 Wiki's equations. IF I had somehow tweaked it to my favor it would show across the board as all damage equations are the same. Furthermore, I keep stating that  the Actual Damage Dealt equation is a multiple of Base Damage and a Critical Multiplier. You can see the patterns between all SEVEN examples of how they change damage dealt. I even broke apart all different parts of the damage for you. Epitaph even used a Reddit style Knights-Berserker armor mix which still gave him more damage. Ask yourselves: Why is that? -It's all in the "highschool math". Also, what motive would I possibly have to choose sides. I don't know any of you to bias towards any direction.

If I'm dead wrong then the Anet's GW2 equations are all wrong. I approached it from a blank slate perspective. I don't care traditional MMO logic told me. All I did was Anet gave me a set of equations and I calculated it with everyone's traits lines, armor, spec, etc. This is not rocket science, but Anet used not so straight forward equations. What does this have anything to do with highschool math? I presented Anet's damage equations and I gave you the numbers....

If anything please god go over all the calculations for me and make it accurate. It would help me a lot if someone could help me make corrections. I did put in some time to making the spreadsheet. Frankly it's insulting that you say I might have tweaked it favor certain builds. It would make me feel better if you had come out to point out exact math or assumptions I made were incorrect. It would be better than just claiming my math is wrong without any merit.

Epitaph_Blade, on 06 February 2013 - 09:33 PM, said:

@Stigma

Awesome! Thanks you for the data, that is very helpful!

I have some questions tho, the HP my build seems to get in your data is like 500 less than what I get in the spreadsheet/ingame Not a big deal tho.

This helped me understand much better what am I gaining and sacrificing in comparison with the other builds, and I like it.

(for confirmation I will give you the data about VIT since is what I find different from my calculations)
100 vit from Trait
40 from Beryl Amulet
15 from Beryl Gem on amulet
39 from Ring Solaria

= 1940 extra hp + 18372 base HP = 20312 HP

thank you bro!

Most likely the difference in those base numbers come from our choice in Trinkets. I have a different Ascended backpiece, rings, etc. The purpose of the table is to show the relative differences between the builds while actually comparing apples to apples ie. using a constant set of gear on the same character while varying the important aspects of each concept such as armor, runes, traits. So there will be minor variations in numbers like Vitality and Toughness if I were to compare to your specific character. If this spreadsheet was made for the purpose of finding the "Optimum" stat values for a specific build, it would look different.

If anything the one thing that bothers me is how meaningless each of those Damage numbers look standalone. I don't have any information regarding the Skill Specific Coefficient or Monster Armor from GW2 so I just had to makeup a constant to represent that ratio. Perhaps I can go do some criticals on Alpha or some Champion mob and scale the damage to that specific monster. If I have enough numbers I may be able to graph a trend and find out the value(s) of the Skill Specific Coefficient

In conclusion, the 5 second "God Mode" of a Rune of Lyssa build can potentially yield higher damage than a Knight or boon duration based build, but you can also see a cut off point at which when the SoR is not activated, it's a bit weaker. Sonic Boon obviously does less damage across the board.. but if you want them heals....

Edited by Stigma, 07 February 2013 - 03:05 AM.

[Epitaph_Blade]

I've ran with some sonic boon warriors, and they add a lot for the party, specially for unexperienced players, not just the heals, but the longer might stacks are very helpful.

In my case, being able to cast all boons on me just adds that bit of fun I need in my personal build, while also making me more effective.
Thanks to your numbers I know what I'm sacrificing to get that extra bonus I wanted/needed in my play style.

[Stigma]

Epitaph_Blade, on 07 February 2013 - 03:59 AM, said:

I've ran with some sonic boon warriors, and they add a lot for the party, specially for unexperienced players, not just the heals, but the longer might stacks are very helpful.

In my case, being able to cast all boons on me just adds that bit of fun I need in my personal build, while also making me more effective.
Thanks to your numbers I know what I'm sacrificing to get that extra bonus I wanted/needed in my play style.

Yea running those 9 boons do sound fun. If used correctly, i'm sure it can give alot of utility at certain parts of Fractals.. I'm thinking those critical seconds when Flying Shaman summons the worms you can pop God Mode real fast. Boon duration does have its perks, but I've noticed just from play style at high level Fractals, being in close range with other party members spells trouble. Players tend to need to spread out to avoid gettin 1 hit AoE KO or be able to predict boss gestures better. So you'll never be in range to take advantage of each other's boons a lot of times.

I'm actually very interested into putting in a generic PVT warrior build like Dontain's in there just to see how much damage his "High Damage" build actually is compared to others.

Edited by Stigma, 07 February 2013 - 04:46 AM.

[Brand]

Epitaph_Blade, on 06 February 2013 - 03:52 AM, said:

PD: I used Sonic Boon spreadsheet to get the exact numbers, also tested ingame. Thanks for the spreadsheet, was very helpful.

No problem dawg ^^

Epitaph_Blade, on 07 February 2013 - 03:59 AM, said:

I've ran with some sonic boon warriors, and they add a lot for the party

Awwww, shucks.

Edited by Brand, 14 February 2013 - 01:32 PM.

[Sithicus Dias]

Just a quick note to the OP, with Signet Mastery your Signet of Rage has a 48 second cooldown, the (6) bonus of Lyssa Runes has a 50 second internal cooldown. So while it would be ideal to put SoR on Auto-cast for example, you must not do this, since if you do your Lyssa runes will technically still be on cooldown, and you will miss the boons every couple of uses.

[Angully]

so can we come to agreement that the mathematics in this thread are now correct?

[Brand]

Angully, on 16 February 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

so can we come to agreement that the mathematics in this thread are now correct?

If you're talking about Stigma's, they are a bit off for Sonic Boon, I know. I'm missing 2% crit and 18% Crit damage, which is a pretty significant loss (Those are the only mistakes I can see though).

Edit: OH! And he didn't include the bonus Damage% from Empowered.

Edited by Brand, 16 February 2013 - 05:09 PM.

[Angully]

Stigma thanks for the stat sheet would it be possible for you to input the damage% from empowered and 2% crit and 18% Crit damage from sonic boom if you believe its correct

Epitaph, Brand, Stigma + Falcon you are all obviously highly renowned warrior players who know there stuff and working together i believe you could clear up some of the confusion less educated players are having.

May i suggest speaking to eachother on skype or something about it and working out the calculations together so no1 can disagree who is right or wrong

I like all your warrior builds im currently running sonic boom because i find it to be good for solo farming

[Brand]

Angully, on 16 February 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

Stigma thanks for the stat sheet would it be possible for you to input the damage% from empowered and 2% crit and 18% Crit damage from sonic boom if you believe its correct

Epitaph, Brand, Stigma + Falcon you are all obviously highly renowned warrior players who know there stuff and working together i believe you could clear up some of the confusion less educated players are having.

May i suggest speaking to eachother on skype or something about it and working out the calculations together so no1 can disagree who is right or wrong

I like all your warrior builds im currently running sonic boom because i find it to be good for solo farming

Sonic BooN >.> Not Sonic Boom. Anyway, Epitaph is new here I think, I don't know him at all. And honestly Red_Falcon is the last person I would skype. He makes false claims, he's rude to people that supply math/critique, he is a hypocrite and he insults people that question his builds. Not to call him out but it's exhausting trying to argue with him, he never seems to get it. I'll talk to Stigma about correcting his spreadsheet later since I have another thing to ask him, though.

Edited by Brand, 17 February 2013 - 01:32 AM.