162 replies to this topic

[malevolence]

I wouldn't call the daily a grind, because is not.

[Ingway]

malevolence, on 06 February 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

I wouldn't call the daily a grind, because is not.

It truly isn't, i get in game, and do the dailies in less than a hour if i put my mind into it, and leave if i don't feel like playing that day.

Montly is progressed trough dailies as well, only it's takes longer.

[Xephyr]

Some people seem to think playing the game = grinding.

[Keaghan]

Butcher, on 06 February 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

Surely you jest.
Please quantify your logic.

Didn't lost shores give ascended ring? I wasn't there, but that's what I heard.

Edited by Keaghan, 06 February 2013 - 05:59 PM.

[Takato]

Keaghan, on 06 February 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

Didn't lost shores give ascended ring? I wasn't there, but that's what I heard.

They didn't, the only way to get rings is fotm or laurels.

[matsif]

I really don't give a damn.  I play for my entertainment.  I don't care what you do with your time, your looks, etc.  I run with a set group of people anyways for 99% of content, so I am completely indifferent to this if it was implemented.  

The only thing that is even remotely worthwhile out of that store is the asscended amulets and infusions anyways, the rest is pretty much just fluff with little/no use considering other consumables in the game.

[TGIFrisbie]

Xephyr, on 06 February 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

Some people seem to think playing the game = grinding.

Some people seem to think buying "power-progession" gear with cash = playing the game.

[Edath]

Just make it so that ppl who don't have the possibility to log (long enough) Every day be able to get Laurels in a different way, or wirk With a monthly cap orso, rather than a daily one. I've heard all kinds of ppl say: 'i work/study x amount of hours each week and i have all of my Laurels'. Gr8 for those guys, yet on some days i'm just not able to log at all, yet on different days i can log for a few hours. Now, since i really enjoy fotm, i'm gonna be restricted to a certain lvl, just because i can't log Every day? And on days where i can only log for 30mins orso, i'd rather do something much more fun tbh.
Dailies were ok before laurels, getting less coins/achievements/gold than someone who logs Every day seems fair to me, halting someone's progression on the other hand and obliging them to do xyz, is quite the opposite.

[Gerroh]

TGIFrisbie, on 06 February 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

Some people seem to think buying "power-progession" gear with cash = playing the game.

You say that as if this thread is proposing something new. You could always buy exotics with cash, and more recently you can buy legendaries with cash, unless you mean more than just this thread, in which case, whatever.

Arduin, on 06 February 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

If the delayed acquirement of the next tier of gear is the only thing which is keeping GW2 from 'dying', the game must be in a pretty bad state then. But of course one aspect of the laurel system is exactly that: setting up blocks in the road so those people only interested in the next tier of gear are kept around longer, like lockout timers for raids used in other MMOs. There's a reason ascended amulets aren't available in Fractals: people would acquire those amulets far too quickly now since people already have heaps of relics. At least, that's my guess.

Thank you! Someone in this thread with some sense to them.

malevolence, on 06 February 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

I wouldn't call the daily a grind, because is not.

Who says it's a grind?
The issue isn't this being a grind, the issue is that it cannot be a grind, that laurels cannot be achieved any faster than a set rate Anet has decided on, a set rate that is ridiculously slow.


Seriously, everyone coming into this thread and saying "dailies aren't hard" is missing the point entirely.

Expecting us to play the game for that long to work towards that little of a reward is ludicrous, and the fact that ascended amulets can only be acquired through this manner makes it even worse.

Edited by RAD, 07 February 2013 - 05:22 AM.
play nice.

[Edath]

I must add that i do not believe in selling them either, and for the 'grind-arguments' just imagine this laurel-system for karma, t1-6mats,.... Sounds like fun to you? No, i didn't think so

[MithranArkanere]

They have to leave something for dedication.

Laurels should be that one thing you can only get with dedication.

I don't want to see anyone getting the cat in a bowler hat by paying.
It's the best item in the entire game, and it should be available only to those who play the game, not to those who can pay for it.

[Trei]

Sell laurels? Sure.

As long as one can only acquire 1 laurel a day; either buy or do daily.

[raspberry jam]

Xephyr, on 06 February 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

Wait wait wait.... What? Why don't you just buy gems > exchange to gold > buy the gear you want from the BLTC? Now I'm really confused.. It's not like there's any gear with a special look that you can only get from laurels.

No, but gear with certain stats.

Xephyr, on 06 February 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

Now why would you need ascended gear for this?

You are not suggesting that I'd go help a friend while using anything less than absolutely 100% maxed out stats, I hope? That would be very rude.

[talliwackr]

raspberry jam, on 07 February 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

No, but gear with certain stats.

You are not suggesting that I'd go help a friend while using anything less than absolutely 100% maxed out stats, I hope? That would be very rude.

Stinky stinky troll.

[raspberry jam]

So many people interested in this idea

Keaghan, on 06 February 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

A currency that is simply earned, not everyone wants to quickly obtain there gear, major factor in the game that keeps some people out; for some people its too easy to earn their highest tier items. It is not fun for them, they don't feel as accomplished and etc.

Also, this is pointed toward casuals, which is perfect, some people have jobs/schools, and can only log on at an hour or so a day. I have full time school, and some times I only log on to do the daily, and progress to that silly amulet.

People who want to obtain the gear slowly can just avoid purchasing laurels. Laurels should still be available through daily achievements.

And I'm fairly sure that casuals who can only play an hour per day (7 hours per week isn't casual to me but w/e) would want to do other things than juggle the demands for the dailies.

Tohmua, on 06 February 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

@OP maybe instead of asking to buy laurels you should ask for different ways to get gear.  Instead of farming for items be it doing dailies or getting materials to craft items there are better (more enjoyable for you) ways to get equal level items that don't require you essentially "skipping a step" in the game buy putting money in.

For example what about items that level up.  e.g. you buy a lvl80 blue quality item for 1g after 100 kills and 10 events it "levels up" and turns into a green item then after 250 kills and 25 events it turns into a yellow item etc etc. Obviously the requirements / values I just made up but the point is, that way you can have another way to get the same level gear that requires a similar amount of effort but the effort is put into something different.

Now that's probably a rubbish idea, but the point im trying to get at is: trying to make the steps to "power" (better gear) the enjoyable part of the game not just wanting to get them instantly.

I like the idea of an item that levels up, but this idea is about being able to skip dailies by buying laurels.

Ingway, on 06 February 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

No... just no... I know there's the whole "oh i can't log in everyday" but, the idea for the laurels is to give players who can play their game rewards, it's a incenstive to play the game and a reward for it, selling it for money would completely ruim that idea, and of course, a major player backlash would be made once again just like when they added ascended gear, because now, there will be acusations of pay to win, in wich case it talks about the idea of buying laurels to get the ascended gear...

So no, it's not really a good idea, and i doubt they would even put it there.

But the dailies are not hard to do, they are just consuming time. Buying laurels in the gem store would be pay2savetime, just like the xp boosters or karma boosters already being sold there.

Lordkrall, on 06 February 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:

He/she/it wants to get access to stuff ingame, without working for stuff in game, which is supposed to be worked, in game, for.
Do I make myself clear enough?

You have understood the idea perfectly.

Lordkrall, on 06 February 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

So, letting people buy level 80 characters with all skills, all legendaries for their profession and full exotic/ascended gear would be okay then?

Absolutely not. Legendaries should be something you earn. But buying level 80 with all skills and full gear (stats-wise) would be a very good idea, I'd pay for it.

Tohmua, on 06 February 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

Because this would negatively effect all the other mice (players) who are working through the maze for their cheese (playing the game)... enough with the dam metaphors!

It doesn't make sense if ANet want to keep people playing then it has to be fair.  People that just want to "buy" power (cheese) will probably get it, get bored because they have there cheese (GRR) and wonder off and the overall community will suffer.

By not selling these items then no-one is negatively effected.  Some people wont be able to buy powerful items but then if they don't enjoy playing the game enough to work for them then they are probably not going to carry on playing the game for very long anyway.  The people that are rewarded for playing the game (getting more items) will carry on playing even after they have them, because they enjoy the game and they feel they have "earnt" something.

So by encouraging long term players to carry on playing you will have a better community witch means more people are likely to carry on playing and more new players will join who will spend more money.  IMO its a choice between "make a quick buck now to the detriment of the game" vs "produce a stable player base which will keep regularly increasing income"

but im not an economist so its more than likely im talking rubbish and it doesn't work like that at all.

What? Are you racing against other players or something? This isn't PvP.

Pandora Misfit, on 06 February 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

That is exactly the problem. There should be something that distinguishes players that took the time to play the game from players that have deep pockets.

I don't personally mind paying for things either; but I totally understand and agree with the fact that you shouldn't be able to buy everything.

But that isn't distinguishing players for playing the game, it is distinguishing them specifically for playing it for 30 minutes per day every day.

MithranArkanere, on 07 February 2013 - 02:02 AM, said:

They have to leave something for dedication.

Laurels should be that one thing you can only get with dedication.

I don't want to see anyone getting the cat in a bowler hat by paying.
It's the best item in the entire game, and it should be available only to those who play the game, not to those who can pay for it.

But a player who plays 15 hours per week is definitely dedicated even if that player plays 5 hours, 3 days per week. There is no reason for such a player to only earn half as much as someone who plays 3 hours per week, split up in 30-minute sessions 6 days per week.

In fact when I think about it, the 15 hour per week guy is more dedicated than the 3 hour per week guy. Yet his laurel earnings are half.

Trei, on 07 February 2013 - 02:10 AM, said:

Sell laurels? Sure.

As long as one can only acquire 1 laurel a day; either buy or do daily.

No, because then you'd have to log on every day just to buy a laurel. You should be able to "save up"; if you wait 10 days you can buy 10 laurels in one sweep.

[Edath]

MithranArkanere, on 07 February 2013 - 02:02 AM, said:

They have to leave something for dedication.

Laurels should be that one thing you can only get with dedication.

I don't want to see anyone getting the cat in a bowler hat by paying.
It's the best item in the entire game, and it should be available only to those who play the game, not to those who can pay for it.

So you are stating that ppl who can't log Every day, but play for e.g. 6 hours on the days they can aren't dedicated? Lmao read other Posts before replying...
So ppl who log Every day, complete the daily and log back off are - in your reasoning- more dedicated? U trolling or wat??

[Evans]

Bah it's beating your head against the same old brick wall time and time again.

It seems to me that people who choose/can play hours upon hours feel more entitled to stuff than people who won't/can't. If I work 10 hours a day, commute another 4, like to sleep a least 6 hours and don't want to neglect my social life, what does that leave me for playing? An hour a day, on good days? And now I generally spend around an hour grinding that stupid daily.

I tried combining the daily with leveling my mesmer, because hey, they should totally be doable while doing regular gameplay. Yea guess not cause after an hour I'm still only at 60% of my daily.

I applaud your suggestion Raspberry, if I could bypass the daily with gems I would. At least then I can focus on doing what I want to do in that valuable hour I have.

[malevolence]

Gerroh, on 07 February 2013 - 12:17 AM, said:

Who says it's a grind?
The issue isn't this being a grind, the issue is that it cannot be a grind, that laurels cannot be achieved any faster than a set rate Anet has decided on, a set rate that is ridiculously slow.


Seriously, everyone coming into this thread and saying "dailies aren't hard" is missing the point entirely.

Expecting us to play the game for that long to work towards that little of a reward is ludicrous, and the fact that ascended amulets can only be acquired through this manner makes it even worse.

We are in the beginning of implementation, the Laurels rewards are the first steps forward, Anet said is starting, yet, you guys are asking for real money=laurels, when this is just starting. I am sure Anet (they also mentioned it many times) they will implement different ways to obtain ascended gear, even in WvW, I am sure that Laurels will be obtained in different achievements too, not at this slow-pace, but even so, why to ask to buy laurels for real money? It doesn't make any sense, because Laurels are "achievement rewards", therefore, it doesn't make sense at all to make an achievement reward obtained by real money, where is the achievement there in wasting real money for laurels? or maybe a new achievement can be created called laziness, then it will make sense.

EDIT: In a normal month, you can get up to 41 laurels by just playing the game. And as I mentioned, you get Laurels for playing the game, not for throwing money at your screen, because it is tied to achievement. Now if it is slow, yes I agree, it is slow, but Anet said, they are still implementing.

Edited by malevolence, 07 February 2013 - 10:01 AM.

[Butcher]

My question is: why is everyone thinking so black and white? Either you're saying "everything is fine, grind for it" or "give it to me for free/for gems/for a small amount of gold".

I've made the suggestion in previous threads that certain things should be sold on the gem store. Revising my logic, I've decided it would be a pretty bad idea for Legendaries to be sold on it. Events should reward exp, kharma, and coin based on your level and the difficulty of the event, so that we aren't confined to Orr event farming. This would get people out in the world a little more. I've also suggested that dungeon rewards should be leveled out, too, so that we're not confined to CoF P1 and FotM.

Playing the game is when you log on and do anything, that's what it is. However, it's unenjoyable to play a game when you feel like optimal routes at max level are so few and far between. My suggestions would take a lot of fine tuning on ANet's part, but in the long run it would get players exploring the world more, and the grind wouldn't be so bad, but just enough that you're actually having to work for it on a level playing field.

[cobalt]

I too only have a little time to play everyday.. maybe an hour.. but i am leveling my warrior while doing it and its totally doable.

The OP sounds like he/she needs instant gratification and wants everything now... but if you get everything now, then what it the point of playing the game. I honestly don't understand why the OP is even playing GW2 if he/she thinks its a shitty game.. if you think its shitty then go find another game and quit whining.

[Arduin]

cobalt, on 07 February 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

The OP sounds like he/she needs instant gratification and wants everything now... but if you get everything now, then what it the point of playing the game.

The point of playing the game for me is certainly not chasing that next tier of gear. I know that is a mindset shared by a lot of players, but some people are not playing for the shinies only.

EDIT: statistical shinies that is.

Edited by Arduin, 07 February 2013 - 10:53 AM.

[raspberry jam]

malevolence, on 07 February 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

I am sure Anet (they also mentioned it many times) they will implement different ways to obtain ascended gear

Yes I hope so, and I hope that one of those ways is to sell laurels in the gem store!

cobalt, on 07 February 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

I too only have a little time to play everyday.. maybe an hour.. but i am leveling my warrior while doing it and its totally doable.

The OP sounds like he/she needs instant gratification and wants everything now... but if you get everything now, then what it the point of playing the game. I honestly don't understand why the OP is even playing GW2 if he/she thinks its a shitty game.. if you think its shitty then go find another game and quit whining.

I merely think that the point of the game (any game) is to play it, not to "get" stuff. Unfortunately, you have to have the stuff to properly play the game. So that's why I want to be able to buy it

[Evans]

cobalt, on 07 February 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

I too only have a little time to play everyday.. maybe an hour.. but i am leveling my warrior while doing it and its totally doable.

I don't quite agree. It's partly so, and it depends on the daily you get.

When playing 'normally' leveling my character, and by that I mean no going out of your way to reach a certain condition, I find that I rarely make the 'healer', 'veteran killer' or 'aquatic killer' requirement. Unless I per chance come across a slaughtered village I will likely not rez 10 NPC's / Players in my hour of leveling. There are zones which are abundant in water, and then there are zones with a couple of streams or lakes. Usually the aquatic one forces me to stay in a spot for a while whacking enemies and wildlife critters until I get 25, because I'm not always sure I'll come across a different water zone. Finally veterans can go really quickly, or I might not even find 5 in an hour.

I assume it gets easier at higher levels though. Still I feel like I have to go out of my way to do these, not that they are a reward of a good playing style.

[Butcher]

raspberry jam, on 07 February 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

I merely think that the point of the game (any game) is to play it, not to "get" stuff. Unfortunately, you have to have the stuff to properly play the game. So that's why I want to be able to buy it

Aside from agony resistance, anyone with skill and a good build can play this game on any level in yellows (even some greens!). The statistical difference in gear isn't all that great. The question that comes to my mind when I think of how much of a grind it takes to get legendaries, ascended items, and exotics is "what are we really grinding for?", because anyone here is fooling themselves if they think there's a huge statistical difference between rare quality items and ascended gear.

If this game can't challenge us in a way where getting the gear is absolutely necessary, then the harsh grind shouldn't be necessary either. What I'm basically saying is vanity isn't enough to justify the lengthy grind. I'm not saying eliminate the grind, I'm just saying fine tune it. Make it fair. Make it more accessible for casual players.

Give us options!

[raspberry jam]

Butcher, on 07 February 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Aside from agony resistance, anyone with skill and a good build can play this game on any level in yellows (even some greens!). The statistical difference in gear isn't all that great. The question that comes to my mind when I think of how much of a grind it takes to get legendaries, ascended items, and exotics is "what are we really grinding for?", because anyone here is fooling themselves if they think there's a huge statistical difference between rare quality items and ascended gear.

If this game can't challenge us in a way where getting the gear is absolutely necessary, then the harsh grind shouldn't be necessary either. What I'm basically saying is vanity isn't enough to justify the lengthy grind. I'm not saying eliminate the grind, I'm just saying fine tune it. Make it fair. Make it more accessible for casual players.

Give us options!

There isn't a huge difference, but there is a difference. Anyway your post touches on the deeper reasons why MMO gameplay is pretty boring (grind) and then why there's additional mechanics (dailies) that seem to only make things more boring by not even allowing you to interact with the previously mentioned boring gameplay in the manner you want. Both these are due to MMOs being strongly reward oriented instead of being oriented around gameplay that is interesting in itself (interestingly there are old school MMOs that are much grindier yet have more engaging gameplay).

But all that is beside the point. I agree with making it more accessible, and one great way to do that would be to put laurels for sale in the gem store!

[lmaonade]

good idea for you, bad idea for the game

[Ojikes]

Keaghan, on 06 February 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

Didn't lost shores give ascended ring? I wasn't there, but that's what I heard.

That was an exotic accessory with stats all over the place, just like the Divinity runes and such.

And if you want to buy laurels from the gem store.. why not change your game to something like Eve, where you can buy everything for IRL cash? Might not be the gameplay you want, but this works as it should.. Dailys will be changed to be able to be costumized by yourself so no problem there.

Edited by Ojikes, 07 February 2013 - 02:13 PM.

[Zedabi]

I'm trying to understand the logic behind giving money to a game you don't like, for things that aren't essential to what you want to do.

[Sinnacle]

raspberry jam, on 06 February 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

Personally I dislike their shitty game but would like to play dress-up and occasionally join a friend that asks me for help. Being able to buy laurels would aid me in that. If you don't want to buy them then just don't.

Dislikes game wants to play dress up sometimes help a friend.  

raspberry jam, on 06 February 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

Yes, but I don't want to wait. Also, with the limit, I'd need to log in every day to buy a laurel.

Doesn't want to wait wants it NOW in the shitty game that you only want to play dress up in occasionally and help friend?

Really I am not understanding this logic.

Edited by Sinnacle, 07 February 2013 - 02:23 PM.

[Xephyr]

raspberry jam, on 07 February 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

You are not suggesting that I'd go help a friend while using anything less than absolutely 100% maxed out stats, I hope? That would be very rude.

Okay, now I'm certain that you're trolling.