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PUGs are Bad, Guildies are Great


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#1 Zhaitan

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:15 PM

This concept somewhat bothers me.

I have done every single dungeon path and fractals (37 and stopped there) in GW2 with PUGs. And I have done them without any difficulty. I generally form my own group. I am more of a LFM than LFG person.

However, sometimes I ran with groups that had 2 or more members from the same guild. In most cases, other than them being obnoxious, arrogant, and clueless, I had terrible experience running with those people.

Here are my observations:
  • First, they will blame the PUG as soon as some problem occurs. It will not matter if that ominous incident was their own making

  • Secondly, they will not try to adapt to new situations but, try to force their own notions simply because they are guildies and so, they know better.

  • Third, they absolutely do not want to learn anything new from a PUG.
There are many incidents but, a recent one comes to my mind. One night, I joined a PUG with 3 guildies in it. Interestingly enuf, the group was 2 guards and 3 wars. It was an AC money run. Prior to Kholer fight, the group leader instructed me that I must be able to dodge Kholer pulls as it was necessary for my survival. Then the fight began. I saw the whole melee group suddenly became ranged and dodged from Ascalon to China while getting noobownd by Kholer, sorry for the lack of better word to explain the situation. And to my utter astonishment, our group wiped. So, we try again. This time, I suggested that let's all just melee Kholer down as there is absolutely no need to range this mob all over the place with our group setting. As a matter of fact, dodge or no-dodge Kholer can't kill AH/EM guards with 4 players in boon range unless that toon is heavily undergeared or clueless. With so much protection from 2 guards and might/vul stack, that mob should go down in less than 2 pull opportunities. The immediate response was, "Sorry, we do not hack." I told them, "You don't have to". After 5 mins of discussion about how they should report me to ANET for possibly hacking Kholer(!), they decided to try again the same way they did before. Thankfully, they agreed to kill Kholer in the corner where these guys could not dodge into oblivion except for one guy dodging down into the water. They spotted me not dodging Kholer at all in the fight. After the dungeon run was over, one guy said, "Reported" and kicked me out of the group.

I had no problem doing that with PUGs and many of the PUGs actually adapted to this even when they were not a heavy. Needless to say, I was not reported for hacking Kholer.

That said, however, I ran with a few groups with some people from same guild and had very pleasant experience as well. But, unfortunately, most failures I ever encountered was when I PUG'd into an almost guild group. Hence, they left me a long lasting impression.

What was your experience?

#2 beadnbutter32

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:47 PM

I don't think it is productive to paint all guildies as uncouth morons just because of a few bad apples.

Every time you PUG your playing with people who are usually new to you, and there will always be a few bad ones that  are idiots at worst or just having a bad day at best.

I can I have seen the extreme end of the spectrum you are talking about.  The worst guildies are the ones that obviously (judging by their lack of skill) have mostly rode the shirt tails of others in guild runs, and are used to a couple of ringers doing all the heavy lifting while they themselves just take up space.  These types try to hide their noobishness behind braddagio and bluff and are always the first to blame others for any issues in a run.

To paraphrase Forrest Gump, "PUGs (especially guildies in same) are like box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get."

Just roll with it, and keep adding the good ones you your friends list.

Edited by beadnbutter32, 10 February 2013 - 12:37 PM.


#3 Darkobra

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:47 PM

Guild groups learn to synchronise better and learn how each other works. My melee know when they drop below half health, I'll switch to water and patch them up. They also know if they run like a headless chicken, they'll cause everyone harm instead of just them.

However, good players are good in any team setting. It won't matter if you put five experienced players together in a pug that have never met. They'll communicate and bounce ideas off each other. Most pugs don't communicate. Communication isn't just talking but taking on-board ideas from other members.

The sooner people learn to stop thinking of berserker's as the be-all end-all of dungeons, communicate and cover each others' weaknesses, no matter which team setting they're in, we'll notice a significant improvement all-round.

#4 matsif

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:49 PM

I refuse to run in pugs anymore because of how many times you get people like who you listed above.  It's not worth it, getting a static group of people makes the game much more enjoyable and you don't have to deal with idiots who suck at the game or have no idea what they are doing.

that said, my only good pug experiences have been as a random 5th in a group of 4 players in the same guild.  imo it made the whole run smoother and more fun overall, but there wasn't someone who acted like your example above.  had that situation you listed happened to me I would have just left the group.

#5 makinaz

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:21 PM

Any time you are in a group with your peers you often want to impress them. You focus harder, think smarter, and perform better.

That is the simple reason guild groups often outperform PUGs. No science or long paragraphs needed.

#6 Lunacy Polish

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:31 PM

I play with a friend pretty often.  Together we are beastly because we know what the other will do and we just sort of execute in a weird rhythm we have learned.

But throw me in with complete strangers... well I always try to have a good 'tude and cop to my mistakes but they zig when I expect them to zag.  Easy things suddenly become hard.

Edited by Lunacy Polish, 06 February 2013 - 07:32 PM.


#7 Enscheff

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:32 PM

I have been in a few horrible PUGs that couldn't even clear a lvl 10 fractal daily, but for the most part they get the job done. I have all infused Ascended gear, so it is certianly doable with strictly PUGs.

To be perfectly honest, I don't even see the point in being in a guild for GW2 PvE. Maybe if there were raids to coordinate, but for the trivial content currently in this game I haven't even bothered joining a guild.

My old raid leader in the glory days of Everquest said it best, "Tanks tank, healers heal, DPSers do DPS. Do your damn job and we win".

Doesn't exactly translate to GW2, but if everyone just stays alive, does damage, and revives fallen people, you pretty much win.

Edited by Enscheff, 06 February 2013 - 07:35 PM.


#8 Strife025

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:45 PM

Those "guildies" sounded terrible, not everyone in a guild means they are good... because everyone is in a guild lol.

But organized groups and using voice chat really allows you to do a ton of things you can't do in PuGs without communication or ideal class comps.

Good guilds use teamwork and synergy across classes to make all dungeons trivial, including Arah. It's just less of a headache and you can speed run things that would take PuGs much longer, plus it's more fun trolling each other and joking around over voice chat while still being more efficient.

#9 lmaonade

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:26 PM

Experience varies from person to person

My guild leader has done her fractals up to 30 with PuGs and found them great, she favors them over guildies most of the time and I don't blame her, my guild isn't exactly filled with the greatest players in the world. She also learns new tips from them all the time and shares them with us.

However, my experience is completely the opposite, with the exception of at most 2 PuG parties, I've gotten some absolutely HORRIBLE ones, and by horrible I don't mean new or clueless, that's a different issue altogether, I mean they know how the dungeon works but are still terrible at dealing with it or displaying the required skill (read: not much skill at all) needed to complete a run smoothly, PuGs in dungeons usually leads to me leading the pack and/or soloing a boss until they can get back from a revive (this was mostly before the update)

Hell, even in advertised "experienced speed runs" I get some of the most arrogant, obnoxious, elitist and at the same time horrible players. CoF Path 2 is an example, everyone is different so it's important to coordinate the last part in order to deal maximum damage on the crystal right? According to a Mesmer in my group, no. He just kept killing his acolyte whenever it was up without any warning whatsoever and saying stupid shit like "oh you're just too slow" "not my fault" and causing us to need 6 rotations of aco killing to completely destroy the crystal. I hate stupid people like this and they are why I never run PuGs.

Edited by lmaonade, 06 February 2013 - 08:28 PM.


#10 Zhaitan

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:27 PM

View PostStrife025, on 06 February 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:

Those "guildies" sounded terrible, not everyone in a guild means they are good... because everyone is in a guild lol.

But organized groups and using voice chat really allows you to do a ton of things you can't do in PuGs without communication or ideal class comps.

Good guilds use teamwork and synergy across classes to make all dungeons trivial, including Arah. It's just less of a headache and you can speed run things that would take PuGs much longer, plus it's more fun trolling each other and joking around over voice chat while still being more efficient.

I hear ya. Many times, I found that some of those same people, who behave obnoxiously like that to a PUG in a mostly guild group setting, behave quite differently when they are pugging. So, I think what drives such behavior is a pre-conceived notion that pugs are bad, guildies are good. Hence, I made the post to see how others feel during an almost idle workday.

View Postbeadnbutter32, on 06 February 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

I don't think it is productive to paint all guildies as uncouth morons just because of a few bad apples.

Every time you PUG your playing with people who are usually new to you, and there will always be a few bad ones that  are idiots at worst or just having a bad day at best.

I don't want to give anyone a wrong impression that all guildies are uncouth morons as I, myself, a member of 4 guilds. But, for dungeons, I always PUG on principle. For WvW, I always zerg with my guild. I believe, any ARPG game survives based on its ability to cater to randoms and guilds at the same time.  At some point randoms take over as the game gets older.

However, this brings me to a PUG incident that I recently encountered. I was trying to get me a berserker piece for my guard and so, I decided to do some COF runs. Once the group filled up i zoned in. Suddenly, one of the members said, "Sorry no guards, noob." and left the group. I was not exactly sure what happened and then someone explained that the guy wanted to do a 4 warrior, mesmer speed run and felt having a guard in the team did not cut it for him.  Interestingly, his toon name had % noob % in it. Irony. Path 1 for my pug did not take more than 10 mins. So, yes, there are idiots. But, I always find PUGging a lot of fun.

#11 Red_Falcon

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:28 PM

I run PuGs a lot.
If I see they are good I play normally else I lead them and explain them what to do i.e. stay behind me, this boss does X so Joe The Big you pop smoke screen and keep him blinded, Mark Hoeblaster pop WoR and condition removal, Xx Legolas Xx you're such a weak *got just stay out of fire dps and rez, etc etc.
In the end PuGs work only if there is a strong leader who's able to get the team to follow a procedure, or only if at least other 2 people in the group are good.
I accept that some people may be first timers and even let them watch all the cutscenes I don't really mind as long as they follow the mechanics.

The only people I simply kick out are those who go all like "I PLAY HOW I WANTZ CUZ I PAID FOR DIS GAEM".
"K then go LFG in LA idiot /kick"

I prefer PuGs because when guildies play bad and I yell at them it may cause guild drama so it's best with unknowns.
My guild is WvW mostly so they aren't very used to PvE mechanics.

Edited by Red_Falcon, 06 February 2013 - 08:30 PM.


#12 Al Shamari

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:30 PM

What I've learned from dealing with both guild groups and PUGs is not that there is a lack of "skill" in PUGs per say, simply a lack of communication. When doing dungeon runs with a guild group, there is a constant feed of communication. Someone will be giving a brief feed of tactic, calling targets, asking what the group as a whole wants to do (for example, skipping Kholer?), etc.

In a PUG on the other hand, I have found that more often than not, everyone is in an individualist mindset. It leads to getting stomped by trash mobs because one person will decide that they simply want to skip the mob, or one person will be trying to pull the troll while the other is running past Kholer because that's how "they" do it.

I've brought this up in PUGs previously, normally only to be yelled at, that we don't "need to communicate" and just to "do it". If PUGs would communicate, make sure everyone is on the same page at the very beginning of the run, etc... it really would make a world of differences.

#13 Loperdos

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:40 PM

View PostAl Shamari, on 06 February 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:


~snip

I've brought this up in PUGs previously, normally only to be yelled at, that we don't "need to communicate" and just to "do it". If PUGs would communicate, make sure everyone is on the same page at the very beginning of the run, etc... it really would make a world of differences.

I feel you on this one.  Just the other day a buddy and myself were doing some quick~ish (don't like to say speed runs, cuz its not really speed runs) AC runs and ran into someone who, in response to my buddy and mine attempt at communication of how we want to approach a particular section said, "Ice bow." When asked if there was any other way that we should do it, should the ice bow strategy fail, the response was, "No, ice bow, otherwise you are all noobs."  That particular person ran off away from the rest of us in that particular section and ended up getting themselves killed because obviously the ice bow is the be all, end all (not saying that it is a bad strategy, in fact, in the right hands, it is a good strategy) for that section and he could obviously solo the section without our help.  After he died and we failed (just barely I might add) he proceeded to verbally abuse the other two members of the party.  When asked if we should discuss and COMMUNICATE about a different way to try, he said, "No, just do it. Only noobs fail."  Some fun irony there. :D

I've been noticing this more recently, though to be fair, I've only recently been jumping into PUGs and less with my RL buddies, which probably explains a lot.  That being said, even if its a commonly run dungeon path like CoF or AC, I think they would go a lot smoother with PUGs if people still communicated, because even if a person *thinks* they know the *right* way, there may be other ways that are more efficient or even better.

#14 infisio

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:02 PM

I think the OP is generalizing just as harshly as the "Pugs are Bad...." mindset that he's opposing.  Some Guilds are great and welcoming, some are poor and have attitude.  Every time I enter a dungeon, whether it's with my Guildies or PUGs, the experience has been different.  I've had fabulous and poor runs with both Guildies and PUGs.  And just because people are in a Guild together doesn't mean that they necessarily agree - miscommunication occurs there too.  I think if someone goes into a group with a predetermined mindset, he/she is bound to be disappointed.

#15 Tregarde

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:07 PM

Any time you're in a group with people you don't know, it's a gamble. You never know if you'll be with people who are adaptable and open to suggestions, or stubborn know-it-alls who don't know jack. I've seen "ideal" group set-ups get wiped over and over, and groups most folks would avoid just roll through a dungeon with little difficulty.

I've had great PUGs, and bad ones. But, overall, the good outweighs the bad, and I'll still do PUGs when I can't get enough guildies and friends to do something.

#16 horheristo

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 04:23 AM

I judge my PUG by the level of communication there is before the dungeon starts.

While not 100% accurate, silent / foreign (can't speak and / or understand English properly) PUGs are usually a no-go for me, and I leave as soon as the last member to join won't redeem the party either.
Normally I feel there's only need for 2 good players to pull together the mindless PUG from f**** up.

My 2 cents, only speaks for my own experience, in most cases a fail-proof.


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I leave immediately any party with a know-it-all member who screams orders (caps) and insults.

#17 DonZardeone

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:29 AM

I have 2 rules for kicking:

1. 3 requests and no response is kick.
2. Call us names is immediate kick.

AC, I sent some guy cons and asked him not to pull mobs to npc. He pulled mobs to NPC. I asked him not to pull mobs to NPC, he pulled mobs to NPC, I asked him not to pull mobs to NPC, do not go in this position, don't fight here, don't attack this, please say something.
No response, no nothing. He may have been some sort of bot I guess. Kicked.

AC, we fight spider, guy yells "HEALL". At Kohler we wipe and guy calls us idiots. Kick, then flawless kohler. I think the replacement guy didn't even wear armor.

I don't move unless our team has at least 3 clanmembers.
I haven't really pugged since Thunderhead Keep.

#18 Tellia

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:49 AM

yea people always say "pugs suck guildies are 1000% better". they arent wrong that most pug group sucks but it always seems like they forget that a- bad players join guilds too and b- pretty much everyone in those bad pug groups is in some kind of guild aswell. a group of people who happen to be in the same guild can still have terrible people in it whether it be just inexperience, unwillingness to listen or learn, arrogance, or just plain stupidity.

having said that, i dont pug in any games anymore. with a guild you at least have an opportunity to learn how each other plays and teach. and its a much better atmosphere in chat.

View Postbeadnbutter32, on 06 February 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

I don't think it is productive to paint all [pugs] as uncouth morons just because of a few bad apples.

Every time you [join a guild] your playing with people who are usually new to you, and there will always be a few bad ones that  are idiots at worst or just having a bad day at best.

To paraphrase Forrest Gump, "[guilds] are like box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get."
see what i did there?

#19 Feathermoore

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 04:04 PM

I can't help but find it slightly amusing that you are using PUG experiences to show that the idea of PUGs being worse than guilds is off. You weren't in a guild group. Those experiences were in a PUG.

Fact of the matter is that the chance of failure goes up if you PUG when you compare it to a guild group. Now when a person says guild group, it is understood that the group is made up of guildies and that these guildies have played together multiple times in the past or are at least planning on playing together many times in the future. A group of people who play together regularly will have a much higher chance of working together than a PUG will. Yes, PUGs can get through anything in GW2 and with little effort at that most of the time. That says more to the difficulty of the PvE experience in the game than to the ability of the groups though.

The statement "PUGs < Guilds" comes with the understood, but unstated qualifiers that I mention above. It isn't just as simple as what is literally said.

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#20 Zhaitan

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:26 PM

View PostFeathermoore, on 07 February 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

I can't help but find it slightly amusing that you are using PUG experiences to show that the idea of PUGs being worse than guilds is off. You weren't in a guild group. Those experiences were in a PUG.

The OP is not about PUG vs. Guild Group. Or, for that matter to show if PUG is better than a Guild Group or vice versa. You may want to re-read the quoted text as I don't think you wanted to say what you wrote.The OP is about a pre-conceived notion - PUGs suck but, guildies are great. Throughout the thread that same notion has been repeated many many times.

In a guild of 50 people, do all 50 people play with each other? In all cases, no. You do not group with anyone just because he is a guildie. In most cases, people play in static groups and that leads to guild drama because someone is bound to offend someone by not partying with him. How many guilds do break just from this nonsense alone? The reason people play in the static groups is because people do not want to waste time playing with inexperienced guildies. You know lil' boy Joe sucks but, because of him being a guildie you can't really be a jerk to him; however, if Joe were a PUG, you'd use your annynomity to bring out that wannabe jerk of yours as soon as something goes wrong.

As a generalized concept, when it comes to PUG vs. Guildie comparison, people always prefer to run with a guildie as opposed to a PUG. Why? Because things go smoother. Fact of the matter is, it's not really the case. People simply like to run with the people they can depend on. People feel comfortable that way. It makes things easy. It really does not matter if it's a guildie or not.  In a group of guildies and a PUG, its easier to blame the PUG than to say anything to a guildie of yours. You can be a total asshat to PUGs. But, do that to a guildie, you'll probably be booted out. What it boils down to is restraint. With guilds, you have that; with PUGs, you don't.

My OP is about that.

Edited by Zhaitan, 07 February 2013 - 06:27 PM.


#21 Feathermoore

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 07:32 PM

I meant exactly what I said.

You are misrepresenting what people mean when they say that guildies are better than PUGs. As I said later on in my first post, the statement comes with qualifiers that are just never said. A guild group that plays together regularly is better than any PUG most of the time. The italicized phrases are the unstated, but understood qualifiers. A group of 5 random people from a guild of say 200 who have never played together is technically a guild group, but is not the type of group people are talking about when they make the statement you are taking issue with.

Even if it is 5 random people from a guild of 200, there is a higher chance that these 5 people are more likely to try and fix issues so that they can play effectively together in the future because they are already part of a social group and that comes with expectations from all parties involved. People already in a guild together are more likely to attempt to become friends than some random group of people spamming LFG in LA is.

This doesn't mean that the group from LA can't work. This doesn't mean that the random group can't become friends (it is how I met my current guilds). It also doesn't mean that guild groups never fail. It just means that players recognize that a guild group (that plays together) has a higher chance of succeeding. This is what the statement comes from, and is pretty much a recognizable fact.

People prefer guildies because playing with a PUG is a gamble. (and by this I mean more of a gamble)

Edited by Feathermoore, 07 February 2013 - 07:43 PM.
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#22 oni88

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 09:27 PM

Communication is definitely key in a pug/any run. I find most failed/rough runs come down to a lack of communication. If a player is poor but can follow instructions/communicate, then the run still succeeds (although maybe less efficiently). Of course, there are always exceptions, as per the experience you described.

#23 Airwolf

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:47 AM

what you need (part guild group, full guild group or all pugs) is either experience or a will to learn. And true experience can only be found with a will to learn. Not wanting to learn from others is why that person and none other will make the entire group fail.

Even a elitist that gets into a group of four guildies needs to have the will to learn the other members play style and either adapt or be patient.

Every party that i have been in that has failed, failed for these reasons.

#24 Reason on Cooldown

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:38 AM

I've always had pretty good PUGs--which is all I've ever done.  Rarely do I get one of those arrogant or impatient people.  I've had some weak PUGs, or ones that had me concerned but ended up performing well.  But I've only had to bag a couple of runs.

I have seem some odd behavior from PUGs though.  Just last night was doing AC--all 3 paths.  Someone had to leave for path 3 so we picked up someone else, and Ele.  I must say for the squishiest class in the game (?) he was pretty gung ho running headlong into everywhere well ahead of everyone else.  But it didn't bite him the butt, so whatever.  In the final battle, I suddenly noticed him gone from the instance.  Did he DC?  Nope, said he was in Ashford Plains, but then he popped back in..........ok.  After the run...I suddenly notice he was only lvl 22.  Odd, cause I was sure it was an all 80s run.  I don't mind TOO much, but a "heads up guys, I'm going to bolt near the end of the boss fight so I can get credit on another toon" would have been appreciated.  Got no acknowledgement from the rest of the group when I pointed it out (after he'd dropped group--I wasn't trying to start a confrontation or anything).  Weird quirks.  Makes for a better story. :)

View Postlmaonade, on 06 February 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

CoF Path 2 is an example, everyone is different so it's important to coordinate the last part in order to deal maximum damage on the crystal right? According to a Mesmer in my group, no. He just kept killing his acolyte whenever it was up without any warning whatsoever and saying stupid shit like "oh you're just too slow" "not my fault" and causing us to need 6 rotations of aco killing to completely destroy the crystal. I hate stupid people like this and they are why I never run PuGs.

It took me a few of times to really understand that engagement.  Especially the time someone was shouting abbreviated instructions that I didn't know what they meant.  Has CoF:2 really developed a strict nomenclature that everyone not a noob should just know?  But after that, you almost don't NEED coordination.  I'd rather just kite...at least after the first time I accidentally got stuck with it--then you can just ignore everyone else if they're screaming at each other.  Give me more time to taunt Baelfire. lol  Funny story, BOTH times where we never actually designated a kiter (why?  I don't know).....it ended up being me.  Simply because I noticed he had a severe man-crush on me, so I might as well. lol

The first time I was worried, because on a previous run, I had noticed someone with perma max Vuln on them.  Pshhh!  He's lucky if he lands ONE on me.  Unless that dang Magg decides he wants to come help me out, and screws up my rhythm. lol

Let's raise our mugs to PUGs.

#25 Mister Stygian

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:47 AM

I am a die hard for PUGs,though I will add people that I think are okay to contacts to play with again, because anyone that thinks running a dungeon or a level 30 fractal is a big deal and needs to have regulars or get on TS is just an idiot.  There is nothing hard in GW2 PVE, and if you are having problems or think you need a better group-IT IS YOU AND ONLY YOU THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

I have had no problem running with pugs since inception, and I prefer to stay away from any party that has has two of the same guild members because they abuse party powers when it comes to kicks. I have seen guild parties kick a person for the most trivial of things.

There is also a huge advantage when it comes to learning new methods if you are not using the same people every time. Just a couple days ago, I fell into a guild group late at night with no choice, and on the uncategorized fractal none of them could figure out how I shut down all the switches by myself.  Playing in a bubble, keeps you there.  If you really want to isolate yourself, go ahead and stick in your static groups and think you are the best thing going.   I have run into plenty of people like you across all platforms and games, and you pretty much always suck.  Unless you are getting to paid to play the game with your group, branch out.

You do have the advantage of shared patience with a guild group though.

Edited by Mister Stygian, 10 February 2013 - 09:07 AM.


#26 Ojikes

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:06 AM

I hated pugs, mostly because some people just dont give a shit if they eat when they play and stand in a corner autoattacking etc. But i have had pleasant runs lately.. Where people know how to play and is all around good, did a full range party yesterday in Fractals for example :P

Usually me and guildies run together, but we are not douche bags when we have to get a pug or two. Just glad if they can play, usually they can.

#27 Red Sonya

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:07 AM

Quote

I don't think it is productive to paint all guildies as uncouth morons just because of a few bad apples.


Truth hurts? or perhaps it's because "Birds of a Feather flock together".

from my experiences they have been much like the OP states. Many guilds even to the point of most guilds are a bit arrogant and rude. They are certainly elitists and feel what they know is the "only" & "correct" way to play. After playing MMO's for nearly 10 years now I've got a pretty good understanding of guilds and their makeups. Now of course "not every" guild is like that but certainly in my experience the "majority" of them are. It's usually all about the "guild leader and friends" too in what is done in the guild, heaven forbid an outsider within the guild make a suggestion that would benefit "him or her".

This is why I feel there is a growing community that wants more solo play and higher end content to be allowed to be soloed or at least no more than coop 2 players. GW1 was a prime example of what players really wanted because of the way they brought in heroes and then later allowed you to have more than 3 up to 7 of them. For the most part the grouping dissolved and guilds reduced in size and this was "good" for the game. ;)

#28 cyclopsje

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:15 AM

Thank god i didnt have that bad experience either as op. Besides the 1 time someone said i wasnt allowed to use a certain build and wasnt aloowed to wip out my elemental. I just made me wip out my elemental more tbh. :)

#29 beadnbutter32

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 12:49 PM

Many of the more recent comments mention 'communication' as key.

Until titles like GW2 include voice chat as a native part of the game, most casual players won't bother with going through the universally awful experience of choosing the right package, installing and configuring it.

Who has not had the experience of this awkward scene, often with a new guild member wanting to make a good impression but failing due to how idiotically poor most voice chat applications set up is designed: "We can't hear you, you need to configure your press to talk key dude."

As long as voice chat remains an outside application from the game, casuals just won't touch it.  If Anet is serious about casuals they really should take the time to add a few more VMs to host a few chat servers and include a client with the game.

#30 SerDrak

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:06 PM

I run dungeons and fractals with guildies when possible due to the fact that I have more fun in general while playing with friends. But I cannot stand having an uncooperative pug tag along on these guild runs. Most of the time they don't listen to common knowledge, they're too headstrong, and they've got one hundred different ways to do the next boss that are all better than your own.

It gets old, honestly. The door does indeed swing both ways, though. I can join in on another guild's run as a pug and get treated pretty poorly. I got into an argument with these goofballs after wiping three times in the Hodgins graveling burrow room. They absolutely refused to take out the breeder as soon as he popped out of his burrow. I was guarding center with my hammer guardian and doing a spot-on job, I'd like to add. (I never let anything touch Hodgins and I was the last to go down on every wipe.) On the fourth wipe, I was booted from the party. They continued to wipe because the breeder got loose and wrecked them all on the left side of the room.

Sometimes people just need to listen to common sense. No one's trying to rule your gameplay experience, but dungeons are there for cooperative play. You need to learn to listen when people are trying to help you, not shut out any and all advice just because your way is supposedly better.

Edited by SerDrak, 10 February 2013 - 02:08 PM.





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