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PUGs are Bad, Guildies are Great


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#31 Darkobra

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:32 PM

View Postbeadnbutter32, on 10 February 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

Many of the more recent comments mention 'communication' as key.

Until titles like GW2 include voice chat as a native part of the game, most casual players won't bother with going through the universally awful experience of choosing the right package, installing and configuring it.

Who has not had the experience of this awkward scene, often with a new guild member wanting to make a good impression but failing due to how idiotically poor most voice chat applications set up is designed: "We can't hear you, you need to configure your press to talk key dude."

As long as voice chat remains an outside application from the game, casuals just won't touch it.  If Anet is serious about casuals they really should take the time to add a few more VMs to host a few chat servers and include a client with the game.

Who says anything about voice chat? You didn't need voice chat to find the group in the first place. Nobody says before Little Tom "Go on Skype!"

#32 Verene

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:56 PM

I don't like PUG-ing, simply because I don't really like the idea of playing with random people all that much. The bigger reason in this game is because of the fact that I'm used to doing dungeons with the full group on vent, and hence we're able to coordinate things very precisely...and I tend to be really shy and don't like to talk to people I don't know.

I run a decently-sized guild, and while there is definitely a core group that I prefer to play with in dungeons and fractals...this "core group" consists of about 25 people. On top of that there's about a dozen people in other guilds that we play with fairly regularly. I prefer playing with people that can all be on vent and talk because then it's easier to make sure everyone knows what to do at certain parts, and also if someone's used to doing something a different way, then we can decide what to do instead of having three people go one direction, one go another and one go a third.

We don't require people to talk on vent, btw. So long as they can listen in all is good.

I have had a poor PUG experience, but it was less from how they were playing (they initially had a habit of running off when someone'd say "hold on a sec need to change a skill" but they stopped quickly), and more about their attitude - they kept harassing one of our group members and then got pissy at the end when they realized we'd done story mode, not explorable...despite the fact that we made it clear when asking for a fifth that we were going to do story. That's the sort of thing that's going to annoy me - if we'd known they were harassing one of our party members, we would have kicked them and just gotten someone else or postponed the run, but the party member didn't tell us until after the run was done.

Edited by Verene, 10 February 2013 - 03:56 PM.


#33 TGIFrisbie

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 04:06 PM

Some of the worst pugs I have been in had 4 guildies from whatever guild.  Rarely do those guild groups have quality over quantity.

#34 Red Sonya

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:08 PM

View PostSerDrak, on 10 February 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

I run dungeons and fractals with guildies when possible due to the fact that I have more fun in general while playing with friends. But I cannot stand having an uncooperative pug tag along on these guild runs. Most of the time they don't listen to common knowledge, they're too headstrong, and they've got one hundred different ways to do the next boss that are all better than your own.

It gets old, honestly. The door does indeed swing both ways, though. I can join in on another guild's run as a pug and get treated pretty poorly. I got into an argument with these goofballs after wiping three times in the Hodgins graveling burrow room. They absolutely refused to take out the breeder as soon as he popped out of his burrow. I was guarding center with my hammer guardian and doing a spot-on job, I'd like to add. (I never let anything touch Hodgins and I was the last to go down on every wipe.) On the fourth wipe, I was booted from the party. They continued to wipe because the breeder got loose and wrecked them all on the left side of the room.

Sometimes people just need to listen to common sense. No one's trying to rule your gameplay experience, but dungeons are there for cooperative play. You need to learn to listen when people are trying to help you, not shut out any and all advice just because your way is supposedly better.

That's never going to happen very much because in "Games" and most especially "MMO's" you have 8 to 13 year olds running the show both in guilds and in "Pugs". They aren't going to listen to you as they have their own world they live in.

I think all too many adultlike players think everyone is an adult playing these things when mostly it's children and those with a "Lot" of free time. The adults because they don't have a lot of free time want "conformity", "organization", "flawless outcomes". Just ain't gonna happen very often in the "real world of things". Best get used to playing the the real world of "children/kids" cause that's what you're going to face most of the time. You ain't the "Boss" no more like you might be in the real world, you're in the land of Oz! ;)

#35 Minion

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:12 PM

View Postbeadnbutter32, on 06 February 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

keep adding the good ones you your friends list.

This is the best advice you'll read on this topic. Pugs and guildies aren't dissimilar. Even with a semi-guildie, I managed to rage over their lack of desire to even attempt to kill Kholer, so I had to solo him =/ That makes me a bad guy, since I did not start the group that time. That is the all-time problem, though. People who are used to making their own teams usually lead and call the shots. If that's not the case for some reason, you just get furious.

AC is a very good example for the things pugs do that organised teams don't. Before the res-rush update, you could wand and afk the pit bosses from range. It took f*cking ages and wasn't even necessary, but pugs like easy. Like skipping kholer unless a wild troll appears, or skipping the ramp after spider. The bad players can be flushed out of the pug system fast, though, if everyone else actually improves.



Anyway, the reason people say guildies>pugs is because their guildies whom they have played with for months, if not longer in other games, know their skill level and what they are capable of. They probably sync and have ideas of synergies and they know eachother's equipment is legit. It boils down to knowing you'll win to dice roll.


View PostVerene, on 10 February 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:



I have had a poor PUG experience, but it was less from how they were playing (they initially had a habit of running off when someone'd say "hold on a sec need to change a skill" but they stopped quickly), and more about their attitude - they kept harassing one of our group members and then got pissy at the end when they realized we'd done story mode, not explorable...despite the fact that we made it clear when asking for a fifth that we were going to do story. That's the sort of thing that's going to annoy me - if we'd known they were harassing one of our party members, we would have kicked them and just gotten someone else or postponed the run, but the party member didn't tell us until after the run was done.

As a guild leader, you must know that communication triumphs in pugs. How can someone not have known you were doing story mode and not explorable? Those kinds of pugs are a minority, regardless. The silent pug who also sucks and uses all the signets. Don't add those.

Edited by Minion, 10 February 2013 - 08:15 PM.


#36 SerDrak

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:50 PM

View PostRed Sonya, on 10 February 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

I think all too many adultlike players think everyone is an adult playing these things when mostly it's children and those with a "Lot" of free time. The adults because they don't have a lot of free time want "conformity", "organization", "flawless outcomes". Just ain't gonna happen very often in the "real world of things". Best get used to playing the the real world of "children/kids" cause that's what you're going to face most of the time. You ain't the "Boss" no more like you might be in the real world, you're in the land of Oz! ;)

See, though, I don't have to worry about it too much. My guild hasn't failed a dungeon in months, in fact, we beat Arah path four last night with two guardians, an ele, an engineer, and a mesmer - an odd mix for a boss that requires heavy dps. We still beat it, though, because we were communicating with each other and adapting our strategies.

God bless those that play with pugs often, it must be infuriating. All is well in the land of Guildruns!

Edited by SerDrak, 10 February 2013 - 09:51 PM.


#37 Airwolf

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:15 PM

View PostSerDrak, on 10 February 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

See, though, I don't have to worry about it too much. My guild hasn't failed a dungeon in months, in fact, we beat Arah path four last night with two guardians, an ele, an engineer, and a mesmer - an odd mix for a boss that requires heavy dps. We still beat it, though, because we were communicating with each other and adapting our strategies.

God bless those that play with pugs often, it must be infuriating. All is well in the land of Guildruns!

That party setup does have high dps potential i might add. I can think of setups that are a lot worse than that. But indeed, comunication is the key.

#38 Verene

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 12:48 AM

View PostMinion, on 10 February 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

As a guild leader, you must know that communication triumphs in pugs. How can someone not have known you were doing story mode and not explorable? Those kinds of pugs are a minority, regardless. The silent pug who also sucks and uses all the signets. Don't add those.

I honestly have no clue. We said at the start when we were looking for a fifth we were doing story, it was pretty obvious through the run we were doing story...and then at the end they were like "WTF, where are my tokens, I thought we were doing explorable!"

Just. People. I don't get them sometimes.

#39 Sleepyx732

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:57 AM

90% of the guilds in this game are guilds where no one hardly talks. The only active groups being done is always with the same 5 people. And guilds that always leave the impression that the only reason they are recruiting is to have their own personal sweatshop of influence farming.




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