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When do Necros start to get powerful?


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#1 Alilei22

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 10:15 PM

Just started leveling a Necro and Im level 18.  I just feel like my damage is garbage compared to my Warrior and even my Guardian.  I use mostly staff and have well of suffering and corruption for my utilities.  But it feels like I kill at a snail's pace.  Even when I do sPvP again Im usually last in points because I never can get kills.  I drop all my wells and marks but nothing dies.  Then I watch a thief blow someone up in 3 seconds, same with a D/D ele.  I really wish minions actually worked cause I feel that might be better damage for leveling but they die so fast they arent worth using.

I wanted to try out a clothie but Im just not feeling the Necro.  Also from what I have heard Ele and Mesmer arent much better until they get higher.

Edited by Alilei22, 06 February 2013 - 10:16 PM.


#2 God Pain

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 10:20 PM

use dagger main hand for dps, make sure your armor is keeping up with your level and i don't know if you are comparing your lvl 18 necro with your lvl 80 warrior.

My main is a necro and i find my dps really good. Use blood is power  for 10 stacks of might and well of suffering for 10 stacks of vuln.

the staff is good for large groups, but it's dmg is slow because it's mostly condition dmg.

EDIT: Btw, while leveling my necro i felt pretty much invicible, they can survive for so long... with death shroud.

Edited by God Pain, 06 February 2013 - 10:23 PM.


#3 Alilei22

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 10:24 PM

View PostGod Pain, on 06 February 2013 - 10:20 PM, said:

i don't know if you are comparing your lvl 18 necro with your lvl 80 warrior.

No.  I meant while I was leveling him.  Even at low levels my Warrior basically just walked up to mobs and they gave me their loot.  What utilities should I use on him?  Minions would be nice if they werent terrible as wells have such a long cooldown.

Edited by Alilei22, 06 February 2013 - 10:26 PM.


#4 God Pain

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 10:32 PM

View PostAlilei22, on 06 February 2013 - 10:24 PM, said:

No.  I meant while I was leveling him.  Even at low levels my Warrior basically just walked up to mobs and they gave me their loot.  What utilities should I use on him?  Minions would be nice if they werent terrible as wells have such a long cooldown.

as I said, if you want good dmg, use blood is power for might, well of suffering for vulnerability, and maybe signet of spite for more power. and use the minion golum when you have elites.

And get a good dagger, I played with staff and axe until my lvl 30's and then i swapped to dagger and I fell in love xD skill one has the better dmg of all (i think) you get life steal on 2 and stun on 3 in case of emergency.

Edit: when i wss that lvl i also used bone minions, their explosion did quite a bit of dmg too.

Edited by God Pain, 06 February 2013 - 10:34 PM.


#5 Alilei22

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 10:38 PM

Alright thanks.  Dagger is definitely killing stuff faster.  Using Dagger/Focus.

#6 Bloggi

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 10:59 PM

The necro was my first toon but I haven't used it in ages. In the PvP forum you will find nice videos of the necro at work and it is very strong in skilled hands (but that goes for everything I guess). Some people have had success using wells and from memory, going with power/prec/critical damage. Other builds suggested seem to use conditions and trait heavily into Death Magic. In my experience the necro isn't bursty when it comes to damage, but it's ability to debuff and condition foes plus it's health pool and Death Shroud can cause long term harassment. In essence, you win through attrition, not burst. Hope the more experienced necro players will chime in here.

#7 kalendraf

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 11:10 PM

I didn't care much for my necro initially, but around level 20 I found the power necro build and it was like playing a totally different class.  Dagger/Warhorn plus wells works wonders when spec'ed along side Power/Precision/Crit dmg.   I suspect the build would have been good had I tried it at a lower level, had I tried it earlier.

#8 Alilei22

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 11:36 PM

Are necros also decent when doing events for tagging everything?

#9 Archon_Wing

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:22 AM

Yep, my wellmancer can get gold coming in the last minute of an event just by hitting crap with well and pulling out life transfer. This is even more trivial with a necromancer that uses epedemic, and minion mancers aren't too bad at tagging either. My personal favorite is the trip up to the Balthazar temple event where they come tightly stacked in huge numbers.

And of course it's easy to tag everything when you solo it. =p

Edited by Archon_Wing, 07 February 2013 - 12:24 AM.


#10 AsgarZigel

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 11:14 AM

Necromancer gets pretty good later on, especially with condition damage or wells. They can be a bit awkward while leveling though, a few tips:

- bone minions aren't bad as an early utility spell, the explosion is pretty good AoE damage + double burst finisher
- Wells are another good AoE damage boost
- decide whether to go for power or condition damage and stick with it if possible, can be hard depending on the gear you get but this way you maximize your damage potential
- for a condition build: scepter/dagger and staff, blood is power, epidemic and whatever you like for the last one (I usually use Locust Signet in open world to move faster, well of suffering or whatever the situation requires in dungeons), throw all conditions on the mob with the most health, BiP, Epidemic, watch as mob groups melt away in seconds
- didn't play around with power builds much, but axe/focus and dagger/warhorn seems to be the most sensible option in theory, probably works best with wells and bone minions maybe
- note that staff is a bit of an allrounder long range weapon, it has support, damage and control components, but isn't as good in each role as a more dedicated weapon of other classes. I usually start out the fight by dropping all the marks and then quickly change to scepter to finish them up. Staff is easy to use but really better to support your main weapon imo.
- Death Shroud can be a bit hard to get used to, but you really should use it a lot. Really begins to shine later on when you get traits that trigger something when entering / leaving DS, but you always have life transfer, an awesome AoE skill. Doom is an excellent interrupt and dark path gives some extra conditions and a gap closer for melee builds.

#11 MrForz

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 11:37 AM

Rule number one: Never compare your damage to a Warrior.

#12 Hika

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:25 PM

Create a Norn necromancer, use Wolf Norn Elite transformation (solo vs tough veterans and easy champions)

Use [Staff] + [Dagger/Warhorn], Well of Corruption, Well of Suffering & Summon Bone Minions

You will have high burst damage for leveling, all of which is AoE. Go for the fear(damage) and mark traits

Edited by Hika, 08 February 2013 - 08:25 PM.


#13 Skyward

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 09:18 AM

Much depends on your favorite play style. As for me...
I go for the combo Staff, switching to Scepter. I don't exactly recall what options are available on what level, but it works like this:

Staff:
2. Mark of Blood
3. Chiblains
4. Putrid mask
5. Reapers Mask
6. Consume conditions (for instant healing and getting rid of conditions)
7. Well of Darkness
8. Well of Corruption
9. Well of Suffering
10. optional (I prefer Flesh golem because it attacks at will, giving me a change to run if possible)

Go into melee range and cast your wells. Next put your marks upon your enemies. Most of them will be dead within seconds on lower levels. For higher level creatures switch to Scepter when they are full of conditions, than:

cast Feast of corruption (you can add more marks if you please, depending on your off hand weapon - Crasping dead is already available on 2).

Go to Dead Shroud. Blow them with 4 and 3. Switch back and cast Feast of corruption again. Switch back to staff... and so on.

Traits: Deatch Magic first. 10: Greater marks. 20: Staff mastery. Curses: 10 Terror (so your Fear will do dmg too).

Good luck! :P

Edited by Skyward, 09 February 2013 - 09:24 AM.


#14 ZCKS

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:29 AM

If your playing a condition damage necro you will really start to feel powerful once you unlock epidemic & blood is power then use it with a scepter - dagger buld.

At that point you will be able to quickly put 4 or so conditions on a target (including multiple stacks of bleeding, weakness & cripple) then pop epidemic to spread it to all its allies then procede to laugh maniacly & run in circles while the mobs die without touching you.

Seeing as I have not played my necro as a power spec though I wouldn't be able to tell you when they get powerful.

#15 Wicklow

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:06 PM

Like what was posted above you number one problem is that you are comparing the single target damage you are doing to that of a warrior.  No profession can pump it out single target like the warrior can.  If all professions could then why have different ones at all.  The point is that different professions are better than others in different situations. The Necromancers are masters of AOE damage and attrition.  

If you want to have fun with your necromancer while leveling just go scepter/dagger staff with all the minions as your utilities, even blood fiend(the healing pet) which actually does some really good healing now from its direct hits.  The idea here is, you gather up a bunch of mobs,(no more than five) since that is the cap for AOE dmg.  Then pull them on you using dagger 1 since it has a fast cast time, cast dagger 5, scepter 2 then switch to staff and press 2 3 4, then go deathshroud, press 4.  When you leave deathshroud, dodge away.  Also keep in mind that even if you only have enough life force to get into deathshroud for 1 sec, by activating life transfer even if you lose deathshroud due to lack of life force, life transfer will continue to do its thing for the full duration even though you are not in deathshroud.  Dodging will cancel life transfer though.  Any way, that should do pretty nicely for you.  

You don't want epidemic and blood is power like others have suggested because things die to fast while leveling to get enough stacks of bleeds on them to make epidemic worth it.  You are far better off just using the minions as meat shields and dmg increases.  Plus like others have mentioned the bone fiends do decent burst via their explosion. Another great aspect of this is that your staff 2 applies a regen boon,  which will keep your minions alive even longer.

Leveling like you should be able to kill anything except champions that do a bunch of AOE damage otherwise everything is fair game.  And as a side note I'd like to point out that leveling on a warrior I never was able to solo any champion at all.

Necromancer is a very powerful class but its not an in your face burst you down in three hits glass cannon so don't expect it to be or you will be disappointed.


#16 kalendraf

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 04:16 PM

View PostWicklow, on 11 February 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

You don't want epidemic and blood is power like others have suggested
In the power necro builds, Blood is Power is very strong.  The reason for using it is not for the bleeding dmg, but for the 10 stacks of might it confers.

#17 Wicklow

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:14 PM

View Postkalendraf, on 12 February 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:


In the power necro builds, Blood is Power is very strong.  The reason for using it is not for the bleeding dmg, but for the 10 stacks of might it confers.

No doubt 10 stack of might is good I'm not denying that, I use it on my necro at 80 as the most used utility.  However the point I was getting at is that the OP was not really enjoying the necro and I was suggesting a fun way for him to easily level and kill things.  My suggestion was that he run with minions as they tank and do damage and they have utilities that can save you in a bind, they make it easy to AOE farm your way to level 80. Also BiP only lasts for 2/5 of its cool down time so if that's translated to raw damage at level 24 which was the OP's level it's an average of 39 power which isn't bad I just don't think it's worth it to sacrifice that for minions especially if you are running dagger dagger which is the only viable power build.  If you are running dagger dagger you are in the face of the mobs and they are hitting you and you are dying so having the minions to be your meat shield is much better.  It may be fine sub level 20 but as you get higher levels the minions are basically a wall between you and death.  Also if you are concerned about having enough power just put a minor sigil of bloodlust on your weapon and you will have all the power you need to kill things very very fast at lower levels.

Just to recap, I'm not saying BiP is bad in fact I really like it, it's just that its better to have as many tanks as possible while leveling, until you have the gear to support your solo play, i.e., rares/exotics.

Also there is no better elite to have while leveling than flesh golem and it should be of paramount priority to get as soon as you hit level 30.  And for that matter it's really the best all around elite necros have.

It regents hp out of combat it does pretty good damage for a passive elite and its charge can save you in times of need.

#18 kalendraf

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 05:11 PM

View PostWicklow, on 13 February 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

Just to recap, I'm not saying BiP is bad in fact I really like it, it's just that its better to have as many tanks as possible while leveling, until you have the gear to support your solo play, i.e., rares/exotics.
Whether minions or BiP are useful depends entirely on your playstyle and build.  There's not one best way to run a necro in PvE.  For my playstyle and the build I'm using, I've found that minions are not needed.  I had tried playing builds with minions and found them underwhelming.  After I found a build that let me run without any (aside from the possible elite*), I greatly increased my ability to level quickly, avoided dying almost entirely, and greatly increased my overall enjoyment of the game.


* -  I often run with Flesh Golem on my bar, but not because it's needed, but simply because there aren't a lot of better options to choose for the elite.  The golem does provide some minor aid in damage, and it can serve as a decoy/distraction if I need to break off from the rare fight that becomes overwhelming.  However, it's far from a must have, and for many areas of PvE, I run Lich Form instead.

#19 faxfinn

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 10:54 AM

View PostGod Pain, on 06 February 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

as I said, if you want good dmg, use blood is power for might, well of suffering for vulnerability, and maybe signet of spite for more power. and use the minion golum when you have elites.

And get a good dagger, I played with staff and axe until my lvl 30's and then i swapped to dagger and I fell in love xD skill one has the better dmg of all (i think) you get life steal on 2 and stun on 3 in case of emergency.

Edit: when i wss that lvl i also used bone minions, their explosion did quite a bit of dmg too.

You cant compare the warrior to any professions when it comes to the ease of leveling. Warrior is pretty much god-mode in regular PvE oO

#20 God Pain

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 06:43 PM

View Postfaxfinn, on 23 February 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

You cant compare the warrior to any professions when it comes to the ease of leveling. Warrior is pretty much god-mode in regular PvE oO

I don't really think that way... I think Warrior is an easy class to learn and pick up, really what most people are used to in other games. That's people say it's the best class for PvE, for leveling, etc. I have a friend that had an account and made a necro as his main, he took around 2 weeks to reach lvl 80. His account got banned and he started all over again. He made another Necro, that took him less than a week to reach lvl 80. He already knew how the class worked, making everything a lot faster and easier.

Another example: A lot of people say to me: Why don't you use focus on your off-hand to have lots of bleeds in skill 5, instead of having a warhorn that cripples enemies and do less dmg? That looks like the thing to do to have good dmg right? Well... instead I use critical chance plus bleeds on crit. Giving a lot more bleeds with warhorn than with focus.

Warrior is just easy to pick up, people normally use shouts or signets, as it is the easiest skill set to use.

#21 faxfinn

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:28 AM

View PostGod Pain, on 24 February 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

I don't really think that way... I think Warrior is an easy class to learn and pick up, really what most people are used to in other games. That's people say it's the best class for PvE, for leveling, etc. I have a friend that had an account and made a necro as his main, he took around 2 weeks to reach lvl 80. His account got banned and he started all over again. He made another Necro, that took him less than a week to reach lvl 80. He already knew how the class worked, making everything a lot faster and easier.

Another example: A lot of people say to me: Why don't you use focus on your off-hand to have lots of bleeds in skill 5, instead of having a warhorn that cripples enemies and do less dmg? That looks like the thing to do to have good dmg right? Well... instead I use critical chance plus bleeds on crit. Giving a lot more bleeds with warhorn than with focus.

Warrior is just easy to pick up, people normally use shouts or signets, as it is the easiest skill set to use.

Naturally its quicker to level to 80 the second time when you know the mechanics... To justify: A lot of HP, heavy armor, incredible dmg, good aoe, there is just no other profession thats this easy to level imo, and Ive tried them all.




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