16 replies to this topic

[Tiffy27]

So I just got the game and started a Guardian.  While I cant die I feel her damage is terrible even using Greatsword.  Im only at 45 so I figure if I reroll now I wont be losing much.  I still want to stick to a melee class so figured Warrior would be a good option.  Once I get to level 80 and I am running around farming events or soloing who has the best best balance of DPS and Healing?  I dont want to be a Warrior with high DPS that just gets owned because of a lack of self healing.  But I also dont want to be an unkillable Guardian that takes 20 minutes to kill anything either.  Do both classes have a happy middle ground or if I want to run around at 80 farming stuff is one better than the other?  Seen all those Elite/Champ solo videos and not interested in that stuff.  For just running around Orr doing events or what not for karma and drops are both good or is one better than the other?.

[Stigma]

Tiffy27, on 07 February 2013 - 01:56 AM, said:

So I just got the game and started a Guardian.  While I cant die I feel her damage is terrible even using Greatsword.  Im only at 45 so I figure if I reroll now I wont be losing much.  I still want to stick to a melee class so figured Warrior would be a good option.  Once I get to level 80 and I am running around farming events or soloing who has the best best balance of DPS and Healing?  I dont want to be a Warrior with high DPS that just gets owned because of a lack of self healing.  But I also dont want to be an unkillable Guardian that takes 20 minutes to kill anything either.  Do both classes have a happy middle ground or if I want to run around at 80 farming stuff is one better than the other?  Seen all those Elite/Champ solo videos and not interested in that stuff.  For just running around Orr doing events or what not for karma and drops are both good or is one better than the other?.

You sound like a future Shout Heal warrior in the making. Warriors are capable of huge self heals. You can get around 3900 HP heals if you pop 3 shouts and another ~9000 HP from Healing Surge. That's around 13k HP in heals.

There's a extensive guide here for one version of it:
http://www.guildwars...out-greatsword/

Whatever variation of it you go with you'll end up with decent HP, 2600-2700 in armor and respectable damage.

OR... you can always go look for a high DPS guardian build but this isn't the forum

Orr is mainly for Karma farming because you can find efficient patterns to complete events... altho drops are decent if you have enough magic find.

Edited by Stigma, 07 February 2013 - 04:56 AM.

[Tiffy27]

Stigma, on 07 February 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

Orr is mainly for Karma farming because you can find efficient patterns to complete events... altho drops are decent if you have enough magic find.

So where do you go to farm for drops?

[typographie]

Tiffy27, on 07 February 2013 - 01:56 AM, said:

Do both classes have a happy middle ground or if I want to run around at 80 farming stuff is one better than the other?

While its true that a warrior who has spec'd and geared for all-out damage has the potential to do it better than a guardian doing the same, its not like guardians are that far behind with certain setups. If you want a mix of defense and acceptable damage, guardians have the tools to do that better than warriors.

Even for a full glass-cannon warrior, survivability is mostly a concern in dungeons. No one really struggles in solo PvE once you get anything resembling decent gear.

[dawdler]

Both classes perform pretty similar on "balanced" builds. Warrior heal a ton with shout healing and the Guardian got a ton of traits/skills to heal with instead. I even think that its slightly easier to build an offensive Guardian healer than it to build an offensive Warrior healer since the Guardian heals come more automatically when dpsing, sort of speak. Both can run around in Orr easily without danger and both are great at mob tagging.

[Jadyx]

I am by no means an expert, but the one thing I don't understand is why the shouts are emphasized for self-heals. Realistically, when are you going to have all three available to use as a heal? Wouldn't they realistically be cooling down because you're using them as shouts, not heals?

[neflin]

http://gw2skills.net...a7OA;TMALMGVMhA
ruby orb / and Power, Precision, critical damage (berserk ger). and if you dont like GS go axe and change the gs talent to pircing whit rifel.

[Strife025]

Jadyx, on 07 February 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

I am by no means an expert, but the one thing I don't understand is why the shouts are emphasized for self-heals. Realistically, when are you going to have all three available to use as a heal? Wouldn't they realistically be cooling down because you're using them as shouts, not heals?

That's the main issue I have with shout heal builds on warriors. FGJ and On My Mark are offensive shouts, meaning you want to use it at the beginning of fights and whenever it's up to maximize dps. Many of these times you don't need a heal, especially when everything but bosses die before FGJ and On My Mark have time to refresh. Shake it off is your stun breaker and condition removal, meaning saving it to break a stun or remove a condition can be much more beneficial then using it for a minor 1300 heal which is nothing in dungeons.

You also need to use 3 shouts to maximize your healing, meaning you are losing out on alot of other options.

And to do this, you ultimately waste 20 trait points (10 for empowered is still good), to basically give the group one free hit in dungeons every 20-25 seconds at the cost of dps efficiency which would ultimately save your group time and decrease their risk of dieing by killing faster.

The same thing can be done on a guardian with an aegis or using one shout for protection and regen which requires 0 skill points. That's why I absolutely hate shout heal builds, because they give up a ton of dps to become a lackluster guardian instead of utilizing their traits to be the best dps class in the game.

Not to mention as far as self heals go, a high crit build with pies heals just as much while doing much more dps both individually, and for the group by using Banner of Discipline and maximizing dps skills by casting them immediately when they come up.

Edited by Strife025, 08 February 2013 - 01:26 AM.

[Lilly32]

I wouldnt think Omnomberry Pies would be able to heal as much as an AH Guardian build.  If you want self healing and decent DPS roll Guardian cause you have to give up too much to get shouts heal.  At least with an AH Guardian you are using Shouts that give you tons of buffs at the same time.  Other than For Great Justice the other Warrior shouts are meh for PvE but like the poster above said you have to take all 3 for a heal shout build to work.  If you are just going to be doing events and soloing then a Guardian will probably suit you better.

[Stigma]

Tiffy27, on 07 February 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

So where do you go to farm for drops?

Fractals 20-30 gives good drops. And if you're higher level than that you can karma as reward as well.

You really do need all 3 shouts to do effective healing. You can feel a large handicap  even if you have 2 heals instead of 3. FGJ, OMM, and SIO all have 20 second cool downs which is good enough to do healing and buffs/CC, etc. and still have it come back in time. The full knight armor would have same crit chance as any other berserker build as precision values are same across the board.

But mainly...the OP wanted a healing warrior and there it is.

Edited by Stigma, 08 February 2013 - 02:37 AM.

[SmoothHussler]

Easier to make a Guardian have more DPS than it is to make a viable self healing Warrior.

[Alilei22]

SmoothHussler, on 08 February 2013 - 02:45 AM, said:

Easier to make a Guardian have more DPS than it is to make a viable self healing Warrior.

Yea warrior just has to give up too much.  You have to trait 30 into tactics just to get shouts heal.  Honestly the one thing warriors dont need is more health, especially if you are talking about just running around doing events and solo farming, and tactics is more Vit.  Then you have to take all 3 shouts for your utilities.  The only one thats really worth it is "For Great Justice".   Not to mention 10 points into Arms gives you chance to inflict Vulnerability on crits without having to waste a utility on it.  10 stacks might be good for Champs and Dungeons to get it on them right away but for normal grinding and events having it proc on crits is just as good.  Also doing events you are probably 100% guaranteed to have a well necro in the crowd somewhere so theres your vulnerability and its AoE. Also you are going to use "For Great Justice" and "On My Mark" at the start of fights when you are going to be full health.  What good is a heal when your health is 100%?  Healing Shouts is more For Grouping and WvW and even then a AH Guardian is going to be far better.  Better off putting points elsewhere and using heal signet and omnomberry pies for your healing

[Red_Falcon]

SmoothHussler, on 08 February 2013 - 02:45 AM, said:

Easier to make a Guardian have more DPS than it is to make a viable self healing Warrior.

Not sure about that.
I've played a full out DPS Guardian, it doesn't come remotely close to the DPS of a Warrior.
Yet a full shout Warrior, perhaps with adren health tossed in, is not that far from the healing a Guardian gets.

Ultimately my view is that if mobs want you dead you die on both equally fast (cheese oneshot spamming lockdowns 10k domoges from bosses), the real difference imo is what can they do before dying?
Warrior can deal huge DPS and offensive support, Guardian has more healing and defensive support.
Pick one based on your playstyle.

And in general OP, healing the worst form of damage mitigation in GW2.
You're new to GW2 but you'll see with time that survivability is achieved by avoiding damage here, not by healing it up.

Edited by Red_Falcon, 08 February 2013 - 10:32 AM.

[Butcher]

Warriors don't have the best healing, unless you stack vitality, don't use your adrenaline by traiting properly, and stack +healing power. But that's not really viable unless you're planning to use a shield all the time.

But warriors don't need great healing, because we have some of the best avoidance. All you have to do is use Sig of Stam and EP, trait for EP in the defense traits (30 point trait), and stack boat loads of toughness. Even by doing this you can theorycraft a lot around it, such as Red_Falcon's invincible berserker build.

It's still one of my personal favorites. I never die, and I do a crap load of damage.

[beadnbutter32]

I run a shout warrior.

I feel like it is just slightly better than the alternatives, but not spectacularly so.  The heals won't blow you away, they are rather small, but better than nothing.  Also to run this build, the traits you have to give up just aren't that great either.

The healing topic controversy tends to overshadow the concept that just maybe the shouts without the heal component are quite useful skills.  To me the added healing buff is just icing on a build I would have chosen anyway.

I think it also depends on your combat style.  I tried most of the meta warrior builds out there, and just found the shout build to be the one that most consistently got me through dungeons.

I also run a Guardian, and it suits me even better.  If you have to choose, stick with Guardian and don't give un until you have reached 80 and tried most of the major meta guardian builds.

Edited by beadnbutter32, 08 February 2013 - 02:06 PM.

[Speno]

I with Life in on of my Maces, plus stack some + healing Each of my shouts heal myself and others around me for 1500 - 2k. I am a tank warrior so I have all Power Toughnes Vitality Gear. With Superior Runes of Water. I've had some pretty great success in all dungeons. Last night in COF with a squishy group I was the last one alive to save Mag from the assassins.

With 3 shouts I can instaly pop to heal for 6k. With some pretty quick cooldowns from, Shake it Off, For Great Justice, and On My Mark. I use the Banner to revive allies when needed too.

[SmoothHussler]

Red_Falcon, on 08 February 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

Not sure about that.
I've played a full out DPS Guardian, it doesn't come remotely close to the DPS of a Warrior.
Yet a full shout Warrior, perhaps with adren health tossed in, is not that far from the healing a Guardian gets.

Personally IMO I don't know how much damage you will expect to be doing with 30 in tactics but who knows.  For me to make a shout healing Warrior its too expensive and nothing that a Guardian can't do for himself and his team much better from the start.  Whats the use of bringing a Warrior's heals closer to that of a Guardian is he sacrifices damage in the process?  Wouldn't the OP be in the same kinda conundrum he feels he is in now (i.e. a healing character who can take loads of punishment but has lower damage)?

Its playstyle I guess.  Me myself, if I could have gone back to when I started this game I would have picked a Guardian over a Warrior since I like the support he provides.  The OP sounds like he wants to deal some death, at which case I would recommend he just go Warrior and come to terms with the fact that he has to sacrifice some healing.