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#1 Its Kharscal

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:27 PM

Hi,

I have been playing my guardian since release, and has gathered all good thinks for him.. But now as i'm playing, i somewhat wants to add some more "survivability" to him. I very rarely die in PvE, Fractals and WvWvW becuase of the gear and play style, but i just want to resiste a little but more for those moments when it is required.

The following are my stats, gear etc.

Posted Image   Posted Image    Posted Image

For my armor i'm using full arah (power, precision, crit. dmg.)
For my rings, amulet etc. i'm also aiming for the power, precision, crit. dmg.

Problem is, as it is right now, i love the amount of dmg. i'm dealing, so i don't want to remove to much of the power, precision, crit. dmg. (if possible)

So right now, i'm asking for the best solution?..

What i had in mind was to go for power, vit. toughness in all my rings, amulets etc. and then maybe go for the Superior Rune of The Eagle to make up for the lost crit. dmg. and precision.. Or if u should add some Superior Rune of The Soldier to the armor , and add some survivabiltty that way? But i don't know what would be considered the best idea..
So therefore i was hoping for you to help me!

#2 Minion

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:40 PM

How is your precision so low compared to your crit damage? I thought the two always went hand in hand. What runes are you currently using?

My setup is the same, but without the ascended gear because the mechanics in Fractals annoy me. Full berserker, ruby trinkets with sup eagle runes. I have 97% crit damage and 55% crit chance atm, which will rise when I get my ascended amulet at the end of this month with my laurels. The extra survivability comes from Altruistic Healing. I don't care what GuaialdialiaKaiagiai says, maxing out crit damage/toughness to take AH improves damage in the long-run due to tankiness and not having to move around/dodge as often. Being able to have high DPS (note the difference between burst damage and drawn-out DPS) and yet amazing survivability is great, since there's no real negative. You're compensated the massive extra heals/toughness with crit damage, which, for you, will be higher than 100% if you do wear Eagle runes also. I would certainly consider that.

#3 FoxBat

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:41 PM

Honestly I'd look at your traits/skills first. (You might post them here.) There's no way to trade off a "little" damage for a "lot" of survivability on gear, aside from rune special effects, or getting your vit out of one-shot zone (or say, agony vs fractal bosses.) You can probably do more with some defensive traits/skills tweaks.

If you do want to start replacing berserker pieces with soldier's or knights, follow the ratios at the bottom of this table. Get rid of the worst (highest) ratio crit items first, like legs and head piece. (Table is for exotics, ascended zerk items you might as well keep if you got them.)

Edited by FoxBat, 07 February 2013 - 12:58 PM.


#4 Coren

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 01:00 PM

I'm confused. You say you rarely die, so why do you want more survivability? You obviously can stay alive as a bass.cannon.

#5 Thaddeuz

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 01:26 PM

I don't really understand your stats if you are already full Berserker (exept a Ancient Karka Shell with Celestial Stats).

You got 2570 Defense (2570 - 1211 (armor) - 916 (base toughness) - 25 (Ancrient Karka Shell) = 418). You obviously use 300 pts in Valor, which let us 118 Toughness Pts. Do you use a Rune that give you more toughness like Soldier?

Also, you have a good amount of Critical Damage, but a really small Critical Chance and Power.  My Guardian got 15k Hp, 3K Defense and still got the same amount of Critical Change and about 100 more power.

If you want to had some Surviability while keeping a good DPS the best way is by Playing with Soldier (for HP), Knight (for Toughness) and Berserker (DPS) gear. Just make sure you understant the ratio ''pts of stats : Critical damage''. Some piece of gear have a better ratio, meaning that you get more citical damage for the point of stats you sacrifice.  In this optic, make sure that Amulet, Rings and Back Item are Berserker (because Ascended gear have a good ratio) and use knight or Soldier Earing (bad ratio) with Berserker Jewel(good ratio). For your Armor, the piece of gear you want to transfer to Knight or Soldier are in order of bad to good ratio are Hear, Legs, Chest, Weapons, Shoulder, Pants, Boots.

#6 heatrr

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:41 PM

View PostMinion, on 07 February 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

How is your precision so low compared to your crit damage? I thought the two always went hand in hand. What runes are you currently using?

My setup is the same, but without the ascended gear because the mechanics in Fractals annoy me. Full berserker, ruby trinkets with sup eagle runes. I have 97% crit damage and 55% crit chance atm, which will rise when I get my ascended amulet at the end of this month with my laurels. The extra survivability comes from Altruistic Healing. I don't care what GuaialdialiaKaiagiai says, maxing out crit damage/toughness to take AH improves damage in the long-run due to tankiness and not having to move around/dodge as often. Being able to have high DPS (note the difference between burst damage and drawn-out DPS) and yet amazing survivability is great, since there's no real negative. You're compensated the massive extra heals/toughness with crit damage, which, for you, will be higher than 100% if you do wear Eagle runes also. I would certainly consider that.

Minion, if I may ask, what is your trait layout - 0/15/30/20/5?

View PostThaddeuz, on 07 February 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

I don't really understand your stats if you are already full Berserker (exept a Ancient Karka Shell with Celestial Stats).

You got 2570 Defense (2570 - 1211 (armor) - 916 (base toughness) - 25 (Ancrient Karka Shell) = 418). You obviously use 300 pts in Valor, which let us 118 Toughness Pts. Do you use a Rune that give you more toughness like Soldier?

Also, you have a good amount of Critical Damage, but a really small Critical Chance and Power.  My Guardian got 15k Hp, 3K Defense and still got the same amount of Critical Change and about 100 more power.

If you want to had some Surviability while keeping a good DPS the best way is by Playing with Soldier (for HP), Knight (for Toughness) and Berserker (DPS) gear. Just make sure you understant the ratio ''pts of stats : Critical damage''. Some piece of gear have a better ratio, meaning that you get more citical damage for the point of stats you sacrifice.  In this optic, make sure that Amulet, Rings and Back Item are Berserker (because Ascended gear have a good ratio) and use knight or Soldier Earing (bad ratio) with Berserker Jewel(good ratio). For your Armor, the piece of gear you want to transfer to Knight or Soldier are in order of bad to good ratio are Hear, Legs, Chest, Weapons, Shoulder, Pants, Boots.

If I may also ask, what is your trait layout?

#7 GammaWolf

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:44 PM

It depends on your trait build.

If you are going 0-0-30-30-10 My suggestion would be to trade some of the berserker pieces with knight since you keep the good crit chance to proc boons.

The guardian doesn't benefit as much from crit damage as other classes mainly due to the low HP pool. Keeping youself and your team buffed up and healthy probably helps more in the long run.

#8 Thaddeuz

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:53 PM

View Postheatrr, on 07 February 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

If I may also ask, what is your trait layout?

0/20/30/20/0 But its only because I made a mistake while i was low level fractal and got 1 Soldier Ascended Ring and a Soldier Back Item. I should get a Second Berserker Ring and a Berserker Back Item and then retrait to 0/10/30/30/0, but already use 250 ecto to infuse my back item. So I prefer to stay with my current build and gear since the improvement is minimal and the cost would be really high. I could also retrait and change my soldier Greatsword, but for now i can't change the stats on my Sunrise.

#9 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 04:31 PM

He is in full zerker, which is 38% crit chance base,  I am guessing he either has Ruby Orbs or Retributive Armor making up the other 3%.

View PostGammaWolf, on 07 February 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

It depends on your trait build.

If you are going 0-0-30-30-10 My suggestion would be to trade some of the berserker pieces with knight since you keep the good crit chance to proc boons.

The guardian doesn't benefit as much from crit damage as other classes mainly due to the low HP pool. Keeping youself and your team buffed up and healthy probably helps more in the long run.

What does crit damage have anything to do with your maximum HP?

#10 Its Kharscal

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 04:34 PM

View PostMinion, on 07 February 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

How is your precision so low compared to your crit damage? I thought the two always went hand in hand. What runes are you currently using?

My setup is the same, but without the ascended gear because the mechanics in Fractals annoy me. Full berserker, ruby trinkets with sup eagle runes. I have 97% crit damage and 55% crit chance atm, which will rise when I get my ascended amulet at the end of this month with my laurels. The extra survivability comes from Altruistic Healing. I don't care what GuaialdialiaKaiagiai says, maxing out crit damage/toughness to take AH improves damage in the long-run due to tankiness and not having to move around/dodge as often. Being able to have high DPS (note the difference between burst damage and drawn-out DPS) and yet amazing survivability is great, since there's no real negative. You're compensated the massive extra heals/toughness with crit damage, which, for you, will be higher than 100% if you do wear Eagle runes also. I would certainly consider that.

I don't know why the precision is so "low" compared ti the crit. dmg.? I thought about running the same build as you mentioned, i just think its to "fragile"? But i don't know how well u survive in pve, fractals etc.?

View PostThaddeuz, on 07 February 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

I don't really understand your stats if you are already full Berserker (exept a Ancient Karka Shell with Celestial Stats).

You got 2570 Defense (2570 - 1211 (armor) - 916 (base toughness) - 25 (Ancrient Karka Shell) = 418). You obviously use 300 pts in Valor, which let us 118 Toughness Pts. Do you use a Rune that give you more toughness like Soldier?

Also, you have a good amount of Critical Damage, but a really small Critical Chance and Power.  My Guardian got 15k Hp, 3K Defense and still got the same amount of Critical Change and about 100 more power.

If you want to had some Surviability while keeping a good DPS the best way is by Playing with Soldier (for HP), Knight (for Toughness) and Berserker (DPS) gear. Just make sure you understant the ratio ''pts of stats : Critical damage''. Some piece of gear have a better ratio, meaning that you get more citical damage for the point of stats you sacrifice.  In this optic, make sure that Amulet, Rings and Back Item are Berserker (because Ascended gear have a good ratio) and use knight or Soldier Earing (bad ratio) with Berserker Jewel(good ratio). For your Armor, the piece of gear you want to transfer to Knight or Soldier are in order of bad to good ratio are Hear, Legs, Chest, Weapons, Shoulder, Pants, Boots.

For runes i don't use any atm, that's why i was interested in hearing peoples thoughts on what to go with.. But i seems like i got a good build going there? fell free to elaborate a bit on that, give some insigt in what you use.
Well.. i get "around" the 15k hp when going around, considering the extra % from WvW etc. but as my stats go, u can see, it aint that high, but i don't know if thats the same with you?


About my traits, i'm running a classic 0/15/30/20/5 with AH, 20% recharge in shouts, signets and GS. And as for weapon i'm using the Ghastly shield and scepter (power, vit. toughness) and for main i'm running GS from CoF (power, precison, crit. dmg) with a 5% accuracy sigil.

#11 heatrr

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 04:38 PM

View PostThaddeuz, on 07 February 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

0/20/30/20/0 But its only because I made a mistake while i was low level fractal and got 1 Soldier Ascended Ring and a Soldier Back Item. I should get a Second Berserker Ring and a Berserker Back Item and then retrait to 0/10/30/30/0, but already use 250 ecto to infuse my back item. So I prefer to stay with my current build and gear since the improvement is minimal and the cost would be really high. I could also retrait and change my soldier Greatsword, but for now i can't change the stats on my Sunrise.

Thank you for responding, mate, much appreciated.

#12 GammaWolf

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 04:44 PM

View PostGuanglaiKangyi, on 07 February 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

He is in full zerker, which is 38% crit chance base,  I am guessing he either has Ruby Orbs or Retributive Armor making up the other 3%.



What does crit damage have anything to do with your maximum HP?

The guardian has a lower base HP than for instance warrior. If both classes go full zerker, the guardian will have a smaller health pool which means less survivability even though the gear is equivalent.

#13 Thaddeuz

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 05:04 PM

View PostGammaWolf, on 07 February 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

The guardian has a lower base HP than for instance warrior. If both classes go full zerker, the guardian will have a smaller health pool which means less survivability even though the gear is equivalent.

Ya but there is a reason why the Guardian have a low hp pool. Without using any trait, the Guardian have a high health regeneration, Aegis, Save Yourselves and other great Boons Skill, reflection skills, etc. The Guardian get his survivability equally from stats and from his Virtues/Aegis/Boons basic setup which link the Guardian survivability with group support (AKA what a guardian do to stay alive will also help the group even if you don't go for it). The Warrior Survivability come from raw power and high stats.

This is simply two playstyle both equally good. The Warrior can also do stuff like the Guardian by using some trait (like 15pts in Defense = Health Regeneration). A Full Berserker Warrior vs a Full Berserker Guardian will do different damage and have different surviability issues, but both will be equally good.

- The Warrior have higher DPS burst, but can't move while doing it (survivability issue), while the Guardian's Whirling while have less DPS, but you can move to stay in attack range of your ennemies.
- The Warrior will have 7K+ more HP, but don't have regen, aegis, or as much Defensive Boons.
- The Warrior have better offensive support utility, but the Guardian have better Defensive support utility.

#14 GammaWolf

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 05:12 PM

He is asking for some ideas on how to make his build more survivable.

I am saying is drop some crit damage for toughness since in my view crit damage is not a must-have stat for guardians.

If ppl want to play GC guardians, then go ahead. I just don't happen to believe it is the best way to play the class.

#15 indure

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:22 PM

@Its Kharscal: Do use food/oil buffs? Omnomberry Ghost gives 66% life steal on crit, which gives a lot of regen.

If you want more survivability, but don't want to give up a lot of damage I wouldn't change your armor. I would focus on runes/sigils/food buffs/secondary weapons/utilities.

#16 Kumpeltor

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:51 PM

Hey,
What about playing with hammer? That would confers you protection (that you can enhance by increasing your boon durations).
And also add to your skill bar the signet that prevents 10% of damages (passive effect)?

Maybe that would be too much of changing your play style though....

#17 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 11:33 PM

View PostIts Kharscal, on 07 February 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

About my traits, i'm running a classic 0/15/30/20/5 with AH, 20% recharge in shouts, signets and GS. And as for weapon i'm using the Ghastly shield and scepter (power, vit. toughness) and for main i'm running GS from CoF (power, precison, crit. dmg) with a 5% accuracy sigil.

For what it's worth, that is already super tanky.  You can barely even call yourself DPS at all with that setup.  I would not recommend going any lower than you are already, DPS-wise.  If you are still feeling like you need more defense your best bet is probably just to give up on doing damage altogether and just go full support.  Magi gear is good for this because it keeps precision procs and boosts vitality and healing power.  Just keep in mind that if you go this route a lot of people (including myself) won't want to play with you, since most groups prefer to run full DPS (for good reason).  That's the price you pay, though.

If you are looking for a balanced build with strong DPS that still offers high survivability, you can try the one I posted here.  If you really like the playstyle you currently have, though, I would drop the 15 points you have in Radiance currently (there really aren't any good traits in Radiance up until 25 points, except maybe A Fire Inside) and move them over to Zeal and Virtues for Fiery Wrath and Master of Consecrations, respectively.  This would put you at 10/0/30/20/10 which is an okay spread for DPS.

#18 Minion

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 11:39 PM

View Postheatrr, on 07 February 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

Minion, if I may ask, what is your trait layout - 0/15/30/20/5?

Yes.

#19 Elysen

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 02:44 AM

View PostIts Kharscal, on 07 February 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

I very rarely die in ... WvWvW

Your in full berserker with the lowest base HP of all professions (alongside thief & ele, who has more "invuln" tools than Guardian), so rarely dying in WvW is pure bull****, especially as a Guardians Ranged options straight up suck in WvW.

That said, full Knights armor with Berserker weapons & accessories. Problem solved.

#20 Its Kharscal

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:50 AM

View Postindure, on 07 February 2013 - 06:22 PM, said:

@Its Kharscal: Do use food/oil buffs? Omnomberry Ghost gives 66% life steal on crit, which gives a lot of regen.

If you want more survivability, but don't want to give up a lot of damage I wouldn't change your armor. I would focus on runes/sigils/food buffs/secondary weapons/utilities.

View PostKumpeltor, on 07 February 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:


No, i rarely use foods/oils, but i'm well aware of what to consume for that matter, but i just want a build where it is not needed to "always" consume something.

Hey,
What about playing with hammer? That would confers you protection (that you can enhance by increasing your boon durations).
And also add to your skill bar the signet that prevents 10% of damages (passive effect)?

Maybe that would be too much of changing your play style though....

Uuhh.. giving away my greatsword.. for a hammer? uh uh, no ;)

View PostGuanglaiKangyi, on 07 February 2013 - 11:33 PM, said:

For what it's worth, that is already super tanky.  You can barely even call yourself DPS at all with that setup.  I would not recommend going any lower than you are already, DPS-wise.  If you are still feeling like you need more defense your best bet is probably just to give up on doing damage altogether and just go full support.  Magi gear is good for this because it keeps precision procs and boosts vitality and healing power.  Just keep in mind that if you go this route a lot of people (including myself) won't want to play with you, since most groups prefer to run full DPS (for good reason).  That's the price you pay, though.

If you are looking for a balanced build with strong DPS that still offers high survivability, you can try the one I posted here.  If you really like the playstyle you currently have, though, I would drop the 15 points you have in Radiance currently (there really aren't any good traits in Radiance up until 25 points, except maybe A Fire Inside) and move them over to Zeal and Virtues for Fiery Wrath and Master of Consecrations, respectively.  This would put you at 10/0/30/20/10 which is an okay spread for DPS.

I just don't fell like give up my radiance, the one important thing is that it is giving me the 20% recharge on signets, which i quite importen considering faster healing = more suvivanility ;)

View PostXephenon, on 08 February 2013 - 02:44 AM, said:

Your in full berserker with the lowest base HP of all professions (alongside thief & ele, who has more "invuln" tools than Guardian), so rarely dying in WvW is pure bull****, especially as a Guardians Ranged options straight up suck in WvW.

That said, full Knights armor with Berserker weapons & accessories. Problem solved.

We could argue back and fourth about where is bullshit or not, but because of the WvWvW bonuses etc. i do have a higher hp (around 15k), and playstyle also counts, but nevermind..

The build with the Knight's armor seems like it, it would give me higher toughness, and more "survivability" without having to take numbers from my power, atck, crit.dmg/chance (we talking 2 -4%).. so it seems like the obvious choice.. and then use the Superior Rune of The Soldier, which will bang it up around a base hp for 15k, which is around 1,500 more health without giving up on the damage..

And if you haven't seen this guy esuke put up a stats calculator (thanks for that!), so i just thought about showing it that way..

http://esuke.site90....a602022f;b5022h

Now it is just about tweaking those runes, sigils, jewel etc to the right amount!

But one thing.. i'm willing to take the Soldier runes.. should i go 6/6 and get the ability to remove conditions when using shouts, or should i go 5/6 and the find one rune that gives +25 toughness/vitality, would that be better?

#21 ScorpioSpork

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:40 AM

View PostIts Kharscal, on 08 February 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

And if you haven't seen this guy esuke put up a stats calculator (thanks for that!), so i just thought about showing it that way..

http://esuke.site90....a602022f;b5022h
Oooh, I like that gear calculator. I plugged my current build and gear into it, since it's slightly more defensive than yours.

Just a side note, but my crit chance is actually at 50%; that calculator doesn't take Retributive Armor into account.

#22 Its Kharscal

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 03:38 PM

Gesh.. all this gear/stas culculating is making me nuts!

This is the build i have come up with so far with your guys help;
http://esuke.site90....a602022f;b5022h

I had to change the celestial acc. because i wont be wearing that around, so i had to change to berserker, but i have some new criterias for my build.

I want go keep my power above 1,8XX my toughness above 1,6XX, and my health above 15,5XX, but then i need some help.. My crit. chance doesn't have to be higher than 50%, and i calcualted that, if i get above 1,6XX toughness and having retributive armor, it will give me aditional 3 or 4% crit. chance, depending on how it scales up and down, and + 5% acc. from the sigil, meaning i only need around 41 - 41% crit. chance in the calculator to get my 50%

So is there anyway to change my build, by knowing the following, to give me what i want?

Edited by Its Kharscal, 09 February 2013 - 04:23 PM.





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