69 replies to this topic

[Jetjordan]

Humfly, on 11 February 2013 - 03:28 AM, said:

You think I should run jumping puzzles instead because the pirate ship gets better the 2nd, 10th, 100th? time you see it? I have done Fawcetts's thing (whatever it is called) a couple of times and that's it the content has been consumed.

Dungeon paths would be the same except they are balanced and designed to provide a small challenge and consume the time of people that have seen them 100 times which makes the first few times through slow, painful, and unenjoyable. They don't get better the 10th time through just armed with knowledge from previous runs they get less bad and consume less time.

I was more pointing out the fact that people who think this way might want to take a step back and reserve that kind of mentality to things like... school, or a job maybe?  This is a game, its for fun!  The pirate ship comment was really just to point out that there is a whole lot to do to have fun playing this game, maybe people get a little hung up on tearing through content and getting uber gear ect...    Also I was exploring today and found a sweet place I'd never been that made me over 1g farming there in 15 minutes.

[dannywolt]

oni88, on 09 February 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

This. I have also been in many less than 10 minute runs (prob ~6/7 mins) with a mix of classes. And with time spent with contested dungeons + finding people of the right class, does 1-2 minutes really matter?

It makes a big difference if you are running the dungeon 20-30 times in a row.

Mister Stygian, on 10 February 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Most of this elitism is in COF only right now and it is actually elitism to build and not just class.  Parties are looking for one party type only with set builds to maximize speed.   Pick another dungeon, and it probably won't come up.

This isn't elitism. Elitism only occurs if a certain profession is demanded simply because it is perceived as being better than others. The DPS speed-runs in CoF just use optimized teams. For example, I run a glass cannon warrior build that doesn't work unless the group DPS is so high that the mobs die before I do. If I tried to run that build in a random group, I would need to be constantly backing out of combat to avoid dying.

Can other professions and team compositions function well in CoF? Sure, if the synergy between builds is right. However, this is really difficult to coordinate in a PUG, so it is much easier to simply go with a meta team composition that is proven to work. I have been in numerous speed-runs that have failed because one or more players weren't running expected builds.

TLDR: Not elitism, just a finely-tuned team synergy.

[Lunacy Polish]

FoxBat, on 08 February 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

That's all people do CoF runs for, and yeah, they want 4 warriors + 1 mesmer always. If you really hate dungeons but do them anyway, I'd consider picking the easiest, fastest route that gets them over with quicker. At least it shouldn't be hard to understand the mindset from your position.

Fair enough but it is not like it is some huge difference.   It would add up yes but most gameplay is still outside the dungeon.

I dunno maybe I just don't think GW2 is Serious Business or I am Zen or something.

[Sword Hammer Axe]

I once joined an Arah team with my Mesmer and said "sec, relogging to get rid of lag" and switched to my Necromancer. One of them got seriously pissed while another lol'd and after 2 minutes of rage and me going "u mad?" we just did it in approximately the same time it would've taken if I was on my Mesmer.

[Shadok]

I've seen some group discrimination, but generally only for very specific content. For example, doing a 30+ fractal you will see gear checks and groups won't allow something like 4 elementalists (which makes total sense to me). People doing something like a CoF farm want warriors in berserker armor. Why? They do more damage than anyone, they can AoE everything to death with a greatsword quickly, and they also have more survivability than anyone.

I think that the biggest problem here is that dungeons tend to go more smoothly with straight DPS than they do with things like conditions. Why have someone ticking for 200 bleed damage while stacking vulnerability when instead you can have a warrior pop frenzy, hundred blades for 10,000 damage in the time you tick for 1000, then auto-attack with a greatsword and use "On My Mark" to stack more invulnerability than you could? And in the case that you need bleed damage, the warrior can go rifle to stack just as much as you while crit'ing for 2-3k a shot and still stacking more vulnerability. And in the situation that you need burn damage, not only can the warrior stack a ridiculous amount of AoE burn, but they can also pull off their own blast finishers for even more damage and might stacks. As much as I want the classes to be balanced, the best groups I've ever been in were 4 warriors and a guardian or mesmer. A party of warriors has the highest DPS, and who doesn't want to be able to get through dungeons faster and more efficiently? Why spend 2 hours when you can spend 30 minutes and have no armor repair costs? Hell, warriors can even provide great support if they know how to run a banner setup properly.

Of course, there are still SOME fights that aren't just DPS races. For example, the grawl shaman in fractals. At high levels I'm always much more successful with more support than anything, because that fight is about staying alive long enough. If you're all glass cannons, as soon as he pops his shield everyone starts going down. However, this is why you throw a guardian in your group. All you need to do is have 1 of the warriors go into a banner setup and that along with the guardian gives you all the survivability you need.

Is this right? No. Does it need to be tweaked? Yes. Am I still happy that I originally rolled a warrior? Hell yes.

[Somohexuals]

Wifflebottom, on 11 February 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

Mesmers, Thieves, Rangers, and Necromancers are more difficult to play than Guardians. None of them can just sit in AoE circles or take focus fire from groups of enemies. So yes, Guardians are easier...

I love it when people over-exaggerate about how tanky Guardians are and pretend like other classes aren't able to Bunker or become tanky themselves.

Edited by Somohexuals, 13 February 2013 - 01:16 AM.

[escada_assassin]

Somohexuals, on 13 February 2013 - 01:16 AM, said:

I love it when people over-exaggerate about how tanky Guardians are and pretend like other classes aren't able to Bunker or become tanky themselves.

Yeah, because everyone's looking for a thief or ranger when doing any dungeon or high level FotM. Those are the pillars of the entire group usually.

[Arquenya]

BartenderMan, on 09 February 2013 - 06:40 PM, said:

Since when has playing games been about efficiency? Playing games is about having fun, and if you force people to think/play in the way you want them to it is no longer fun.

When you do the same thing for the 200th time, efficiency is a nice thing to have. It's very hard to still have fun doing the same static and predictable content. After a while it's just about the results. People have their goals and getting money and tokens is part of that. It's for a reason everyone does CoF1 and no-one does CoF3. The latter is just slow, annoying, not fun and very time inefficient.

ANet should have made dungeons more randomized, with better AI, rewards balanced according to effort and some dungeons favouring casters, others DoTs - not the same predictable static stuff that's 50% skippable and generally favouring melee.
Don't blame the costumer.

Not really disappointed about the pickiness though, as my lvl80s are mesmer, warrior and guardian!
Anyway, they were before I quit playing GW2.

Edited by Arquenya, 17 February 2013 - 07:45 PM.

[Bloggi]

It sounds like Anet was very successful in removing the 'trinity' from GW2. Now we have no 'trinity'. And high DPS is numero uno.

Bravo.

For those who have enough time to put into the game, it is actually wise to have one toon in each class. That way, we always have something to bring to the table depending on what's required. Bad news is that it takes a lot of time and coin to build a toon and properly outfit it in gear and runes. Tomorrow I will finally have enough laurels to get one ascended trinklet. The trouble is, which toon do I put it on? There's not enough gear to go around.

[Wordsworth]

Somohexuals, on 13 February 2013 - 01:16 AM, said:

I love it when people over-exaggerate about how tanky Guardians are and pretend like other classes aren't able to Bunker or become tanky themselves.

Guardian is that easy, though.

I would never do the same stuff I do with Guardian with my Ranger or Mesmer.  The only reason I made it was so I could go through dungeons on cruise control and because I didn't want to make a Warrior.