223 replies to this topic

[Dhogoth Noctum]

I'm think about a reroll, and wanna do a ranged char,which class/build can reach the highest DPS at PvE/WvW ?

• Warrior Rifle/Hit'n run ?
  
• Ranger Trapper ?
  
• Its a bow thief viable?
  
• Other ?

Thanks for your help!

Edited by Dhogoth Noctum, 08 February 2013 - 10:43 AM.

[Coren]

Well depends what kind of DPS.you want to do.

If you want ranged single target DPS I'd suggest ranger or dual pistol thief.

If you want AoE ranged DPS, you can't do better than Engineers with flamethrower, bombs or grenades. Even their normal.weapons mostly have AoE attacks. Maybe elementalist, but e careful they are the most.squishy in the game.

I can give you a.suggestion for engineers. The most classical builds for grenade DPS, is something that looks like this:

30/20/0/20/0 although some use 30/20/0/10/10. I prefer the first option because it allows me to have an extra support role by removing conditions when using or throwing elixirs. You can either go power damage(and use a rifle) or.conditions (and use.dual pistols), but either solution is viable, but I prefer to focus on conditions when using grenades.

A flamethrower build normally is power based, with a trait assortment like :0/30/10/20/10 or 0/30/0/30/10. You'll want the major trait juggernaut for the flamethrower, which adds toughness and, more.importantly, a permanent stack of.7 might as long as you keep the kit equipped.

In both cases, if you use elixirs, I suggest of either using elixir h, along with elixir.s (for.survival), elixir b(for.might, fury and haste) and elixir r (for.party revival).

I tend to always take 20 in alchemy precisely because I can remove conditions on elixir throw.

Hope it helps:)

[Thaddeuz]

The best DPS (its hard for me to admit it but) its the Melee Warrior. You need to be able to be a Melee Glass Canon to reach the TOP dps, but if you can...

Otherwise, if you want to be ranged (easier to be a glass canon this way) Coren's suggestion seem right.

Ranger for Single Target,
Engineer for AoE
Elementalist for Burst DPS

Mesmer is a tricky one. If you play well enough your class you have really high dps. But your dps depend on your shatter/clone/phantams. You can't depend on auto-attack and some skill that you use. You really need to make your moves work together and think to get a high DPS from your Mesmer. Some like, some dislike.

I also found a video recently about a Crits based Necromancer using Life Blast to put out a really high DPS. Its really something that i need to try with my Necro. But I don't have the link for the video anymore.

I won't talk about Thief, i never played this profession.

[Coren]

Thaddeuz, on 08 February 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

The best DPS (its hard for me to admit it but) its the Melee Warrior. You need to be able to be a Melee Glass Canon to reach the TOP dps, but if you can...

Otherwise, if you want to be ranged (easier to be a glass canon this way) Coren's suggestion seem right.

Ranger for Single Target,
Engineer for AoE
Elementalist for Burst DPS

Mesmer is a tricky one. If you play well enough your class you have really high dps. But your dps depend on your shatter/clone/phantams. You can't depend on auto-attack and some skill that you use. You really need to make your moves work together and think to get a high DPS from your Mesmer. Some like, some dislike.

I also found a video recently about a Crits based Necromancer using Life Blast to put out a really high DPS. Its really something that i need to try with my Necro. But I don't have the link for the video anymore.

I won't talk about Thief, i never played this profession.

For mesmers, it's really down to just shattering the clones.and phantasms when your phantasm skills have recharged and redo the whole process. Quite repetitive to be honest but damn effective and powerful, just don't expect conditions to be a main sources of damage.

[GuanglaiKangyi]

For large targets, guardian actually has the best ranged DPS, since Smite is massive damage but also hitbox-dependent.  Engineers have the best condition damage output but of course that's capped.at 25 stacks.

All of the other classes mentioned actually have pretty bad DPS in general.  You can try to compare their respective damage output but ultimately it really boils down to comparing tiny amounts of damage either way, so it really doesn't matter, as long as you're not a longbow ranger or something.

[Minion]

Thief has the highest single-target DPS, but in a group it lags behind. War+guard>all.

[Coren]

Minion, on 09 February 2013 - 03:00 AM, said:

Thief has the highest single-target DPS, but in a group it lags behind. War+guard>all.

For single.target.dps? Sure. Ranged AoE? Eles and engis are kings.

[GuanglaiKangyi]

Coren, on 09 February 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

For single.target.dps? Sure. Ranged AoE? Eles and engis are kings.

Ele doesn't do crap for DPS.  This isn't GW1.

[Myugen]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 09 February 2013 - 01:36 AM, said:

For large targets, guardian actually has the best ranged DPS, since Smite is massive damage but also hitbox-dependent.  Engineers have the best condition damage output but of course that's capped.at 25 stacks.

All of the other classes mentioned actually have pretty bad DPS in general.  You can try to compare their respective damage output but ultimately it really boils down to comparing tiny amounts of damage either way, so it really doesn't matter, as long as you're not a longbow ranger or something.

Guardian Ranged dps?   If only this were true.

Melee warrior is insane. best pve dps out there. Ranger...not so much. Thief shortbow damage is great, but not sure how it compares on single target.

Overall, making new character and actually investing time. Ive made a few and I have never regretted my thief or warrior. Most fun I've had in wvw and pve respectively.

[Coren]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 09 February 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

Ele doesn't do crap for DPS.  This isn't GW1.

It's what I said, eles do good DPS, unless your double negative actually means a single negative. Because what you just said confirms what I said.

[GuanglaiKangyi]

Coren, on 09 February 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

It's what I said, eles do good DPS, unless your double negative actually means a single negative. Because what you just said confirms what I said.

With what weapon?  Scepter and staff are both shit DPS.  Dagger is too, actually, and it's not even a ranged weapon.  They have lots of AOE and you are pressing buttons a lot but that doesn't translate to actually dealing damage to the things you are hitting.

Myugen, on 09 February 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

Guardian Ranged dps?   If only this were true.

Have you seen how much damage Smite does on a big target?  If you are specced for scepter damage and all the hits connect you can hit upward of 15k with a single Smite.  That's for a skill that casts in less than a second and is on a 6s recharge.  The scepter auto is also fairly strong compared to most ranged options out there.

Edited by GuanglaiKangyi, 09 February 2013 - 08:40 PM.

[Minion]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 09 February 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

Ele doesn't do crap for DPS.  This isn't GW1.

Elementalists were shit in Guild Wars too, actually. Melee have always been king in the series because auto-attack damage and IAS+damage multipliers. Ele damage terrible but looks cool.

[GuanglaiKangyi]

Minion, on 09 February 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

Elementalists were shit in Guild Wars too, actually. Melee have always been king in the series because auto-attack damage and IAS+damage multipliers. Ele damage terrible but looks cool.

Offhand, other than assassins I can't think of anything that hit harder than a group of eles with Searing Flames and various other DOT AOEs.  Dervish maybe.  Then again I never did an objective DPS measurement in GW1.

At the very least, though, they weren't total shit for DPS like in GW2.  GW2 elementalist is closer to a healer than a mage, really.

[Minion]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 09 February 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

Offhand, other than assassins I can't think of anything that hit harder than a group of eles with Searing Flames and various other DOT AOEs.  Dervish maybe.  Then again I never did an objective DPS measurement in GW1.

At the very least, though, they weren't total shit for DPS like in GW2.  GW2 elementalist is closer to a healer than a mage, really.

Eles were better monks than monks when they used Ether Renewal (talking GW) and did more damage maintaining Great Dwarf Weapon on three dervish/axe wars than any shitter flames build.  SF was just cookie-cutter.

Anyway, ele cond damage on d/d is supposedly acceptable, but sure doesn't touch war/guard/mes. in terms of casters, it probably rates lowest since mesmer and necro both have better utility, which is what a caster is for.

Edited by Minion, 09 February 2013 - 09:39 PM.

[Coren]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 09 February 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

With what weapon?  Scepter and staff are both shit DPS.  Dagger is too, actually, and it's not even a ranged weapon.  They have lots of AOE and you are pressing buttons a lot but that doesn't translate to actually dealing damage to the things you are hitting.



Have you seen how much damage Smite does on a big target?  If you are specced for scepter damage and all the hits connect you can hit upward of 15k with a single Smite.  That's for a skill that casts in less than a second and is on a 6s recharge.  The scepter auto is also fairly strong compared to most ranged options out there.

I'm talking about your double negative in your sentence contradicting what you say...

[lmaonade]

for single target/bosses you can try the 100% crit ranger build that is up on the ranger forums, seems like a very cheesy and lulsy way of building the ranger but still effective no doubt, will get boring after a while unless you never get tired of seeing crits.

[Rulerdragon]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 09 February 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

With what weapon?  Scepter and staff are both shit DPS.  Dagger is too, actually, and it's not even a ranged weapon.  They have lots of AOE and you are pressing buttons a lot but that doesn't translate to actually dealing damage to the things you are hitting.



Have you seen how much damage Smite does on a big target?  If you are specced for scepter damage and all the hits connect you can hit upward of 15k with a single Smite.  That's for a skill that casts in less than a second and is on a 6s recharge.  The scepter auto is also fairly strong compared to most ranged options out there.

You are kinda missing the point he is trying to say, he aint saying elementalist have higger single target ranged dps, but the aoe dps is far superior to the guardian thats for sure. Assuming a pure glass staff build the auto atack in fire alone will with for sustain at around 4k dps on a single target, assuming 5 targets thats 20k so i fail so see how does your septer can aoe for more.


Also meteor shower on a large hit box is pretty much more insane that 15k as each single meteor hits for a fireball more or less.

Edited by Rulerdragon, 19 February 2013 - 12:23 PM.

[Nikephoros]

Just wondering, why do you want a ranged DPS character for dungeons?  If you actually care about dungeon dps, you'll melee.  If you just like a ranged playstyle, well, maybe dungeons aren't for you.

[Zylo]

If you do wind up picking a warrior (and I've loved them personally, they fit my play-style well) then you're shorting your team by going ranged. There are a few bosses in dungeons that you simply have to range, but if you're not meleeing for 95% percent of the dungeon then you're being selfish and not contributing what you need to be as a warrior.

[AzureRogue]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 09 February 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

Ele doesn't do crap for DPS.  This isn't GW1.

I would love to see your numbers on this.

Rather than just spewing out claims - maybe try backing them up a little.

EDIT: Here are some of my numbers...

All tests done with no sigils, divinity runes (6x), berserker amulet, in Heart of the Mists on Heavy Golem with Steady Weapon.

Guardian Scepter (30/30/10/0/0 - Scepter +5%, +10% on Burning, Right Hand Strength || 2315 attack, 54% (69%) crit chance, 42% crit damage): 87 normal, 138 critical, 167 critical with burning on target.

Ele Staff (30/30/0/10/0 - +10% vs Burning, +5% in Fire, +20% below 33%, +20% vs kd, +10% > 90 self-HP || 2334 attack, 52% crit chance, 62% crit dmg): 118 normal, 254 critical, 277 crit while burning, 336 crit while burning and < 33% hp.

Against single targets guardian will average 142.2 damage per attack (assuming they're constantly burning).  Elementalist will average 200.68.  If we factor in attack speed (Scepter at 1 per .8 seconds, Elementalist at 1 per 1.4) you get guardian DPS at 177.75 and Ele at 143.34.

But the claim wasn't the elementalist was best at ranged single target.  It was that they're good at ranged AoE.  Factor in the fact that a fireball can hit up to five targets - scepter can hit one.  Elementalist's DPS will overtake the scepter as soon as there is a second enemy in the 130 unit radius of the fireball.  Which, in dungeons, is likely to be often.

Edited by AzureRogue, 19 February 2013 - 03:31 PM.

[Rulerdragon]

AzureRogue, on 19 February 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

I would love to see your numbers on this.

Rather than just spewing out claims - maybe try backing them up a little.

EDIT: Here are some of my numbers...

All tests done with no sigils, divinity runes (6x), berserker amulet, in Heart of the Mists on Heavy Golem with Steady Weapon.

Guardian Scepter (30/30/10/0/0 - Scepter +5%, +10% on Burning, Right Hand Strength || 2315 attack, 54% (69%) crit chance, 42% crit damage): 87 normal, 138 critical, 167 critical with burning on target.

Ele Staff (30/30/0/10/0 - +10% vs Burning, +5% in Fire, +20% below 33%, +20% vs kd, +10% > 90 self-HP || 2334 attack, 52% crit chance, 62% crit dmg): 118 normal, 254 critical, 277 crit while burning, 336 crit while burning and < 33% hp.

Against single targets guardian will average 142.2 damage per attack (assuming they're constantly burning).  Elementalist will average 200.68.  If we factor in attack speed (Scepter at 1 per .8 seconds, Elementalist at 1 per 1.4) you get guardian DPS at 177.75 and Ele at 143.34.

But the claim wasn't the elementalist was best at ranged single target.  It was that they're good at ranged AoE.  Factor in the fact that a fireball can hit up to five targets - scepter can hit one.  Elementalist's DPS will overtake the scepter as soon as there is a second enemy in the 130 unit radius of the fireball.  Which, in dungeons, is likely to be often.

Good math, but dont forget to acount for the might stacks of Pyromancer's Puissance, it can curently stack 8-10 might raising the dps a fair amount.

Edit: also while not relevant to the counts its 5% dmg while enemy is burning and +10% dmg in fire attument.

Edit 2: Realized i forgot to respond to the inicial question, the highest dps possible will difer if you consider aoe or single target , particular events that may favor a classes skills over another and power vs condition dmg. For ranged aoe power/condition eng or ele, single ranged probably pistol thief, necro conditions.

Edited by Rulerdragon, 19 February 2013 - 05:58 PM.

[GuanglaiKangyi]

AzureRogue, on 19 February 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

I would love to see your numbers on this.

Rather than just spewing out claims - maybe try backing them up a little.

EDIT: Here are some of my numbers...

All tests done with no sigils, divinity runes (6x), berserker amulet, in Heart of the Mists on Heavy Golem with Steady Weapon.

Guardian Scepter (30/30/10/0/0 - Scepter +5%, +10% on Burning, Right Hand Strength || 2315 attack, 54% (69%) crit chance, 42% crit damage): 87 normal, 138 critical, 167 critical with burning on target.

Ele Staff (30/30/0/10/0 - +10% vs Burning, +5% in Fire, +20% below 33%, +20% vs kd, +10% > 90 self-HP || 2334 attack, 52% crit chance, 62% crit dmg): 118 normal, 254 critical, 277 crit while burning, 336 crit while burning and < 33% hp.

Against single targets guardian will average 142.2 damage per attack (assuming they're constantly burning).  Elementalist will average 200.68.  If we factor in attack speed (Scepter at 1 per .8 seconds, Elementalist at 1 per 1.4) you get guardian DPS at 177.75 and Ele at 143.34.

But the claim wasn't the elementalist was best at ranged single target.  It was that they're good at ranged AoE.  Factor in the fact that a fireball can hit up to five targets - scepter can hit one.  Elementalist's DPS will overtake the scepter as soon as there is a second enemy in the 130 unit radius of the fireball.  Which, in dungeons, is likely to be often.

You didn't even think to factor in attack speed by default?  Dude.

You also didn't factor in Smite, which is pretty much the entire reason why guardian scepter is so good.  You'd be crazy to think that weak-ass orb is actually worth anything in the grand scheme of things.  It's even worse for elementalist fireball, that skill sucks.  You are also not even factoring in all the relevant guardian traits and stacking on elementalist stuff that doesn't even matter, like extra damage against knocked down foes, and you aren't accounting for the extra sigil on the 1H weapon either.  Also, your guardian traits aren't optimal, the ideal setup for raw DPS is 20/30/20/0/0 or 20/30/0/20/0 with a Strength and Force sigil.  Even with all this the scepter is still coming out ahead by a significant margin in your numbers.  That says a lot.

If you were curious, I ran the number for staff a while ago but I didn't write it down; if I remember correctly though it was around 2k/s.  By comparison guardian scepter hits over 3k/s.  The optimal guardian DPS setup for scepter is 20/30/0/20/0,

Also, when does AOE ever even matter?  I can't think of any bosses offhand that are affected by AOE and which need to be ranged.

Edited by GuanglaiKangyi, 19 February 2013 - 06:17 PM.

[AzureRogue]

I factored in speed in literally the same paragraph - so calm down.  And the reason I didn't include speed at first was to demonstrate that staff does more damage PER HIT, so there was a point.  Especially since some people like to see HOW you arrive at certain numbers (unlike many of your posts where you just post numbers and ask people to believe you're right).

And I only noted the +dmg while knocked down trait to tell you that THAT's what I took.  I also skipped the 20/30/20 setup for guard because I figured you'd whine that I was giving Ele full 30/30 setup with it's +% stacking but skipping guardian's +% trait for scepter.  (EDIT: To be clear, the damage numbers I posted didn't include the +20% on KD trait, I just included it so you knew what I took.  My damage numbers were only against burning foes, and I gave those numbers to both guard and ele.  As for not stacking relevant guardian traits I don't know what you're talking about.  I had +dmg to burning, +dmg to conditioned foes, +scepter dmg, and was largely basing it on YOUR RHS build - which takes 20 from my Zeal line and puts it in Honor - which only ups DPS through Empowering Might and as I note below, I skipped that but I also skipped Pyromancer's Puissance which can stack more might individually and would only skew the numbers towards ele more).

On top of that, Smite will not hit all hits against a moving boss (and the immo on it's own doesn't last long enough).  And if we start to include Smite, then you need to include Staff's other 3 damaging skills.

And yes, Rulerdragon, I skipped Puissance (even though it would be in my traits if I were making a real build) because I skipped empowering might on the guardian as well.

Back to when AoE matters?  Well, the OP asked which class would deal best ranged DPS in PvE/WvW - so I'm not sure why you're focusing solely on bosses.  It matters pretty much all the time in open world PvE, often in WvW, and it's handy to have in many dungeon scenarios.  And if you're going to claim that smite benefits hugely from large hit-box enemies then you need to acknowledge how amazing Meteor Storm gets in those situations as well.

Bottom line is you criticize my numbers using your opinion - not opposing numbers.  As soon as there is more than one enemy in a 130 radius Staff beats Scepter every time.  Thanks.

Edited by AzureRogue, 19 February 2013 - 07:09 PM.

[Rulerdragon]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 19 February 2013 - 06:11 PM, said:

You didn't even think to factor in attack speed by default?  Dude.

You also didn't factor in Smite, which is pretty much the entire reason why guardian scepter is so good.  You'd be crazy to think that weak-ass orb is actually worth anything in the grand scheme of things.  It's even worse for elementalist fireball, that skill sucks.  You are also not even factoring in all the relevant guardian traits and stacking on elementalist stuff that doesn't even matter, like extra damage against knocked down foes, and you aren't accounting for the extra sigil on the 1H weapon either.  Also, your guardian traits aren't optimal, the ideal setup for raw DPS is 20/30/20/0/0 or 20/30/0/20/0 with a Strength and Force sigil.  Even with all this the scepter is still coming out ahead by a significant margin in your numbers.  That says a lot.

If you were curious, I ran the number for staff a while ago but I didn't write it down; if I remember correctly though it was around 2k/s.  By comparison guardian scepter hits over 3k/s.  The optimal guardian DPS setup for scepter is 20/30/0/20/0,

Also, when does AOE ever even matter?  I can't think of any bosses offhand that are affected by AOE and which need to be ranged.

If you think aoe doesnt mather you are doing some very interresting dungeons and fractals, also you doing loads of comparisions wrong, the elementalist got more dmg boosts actualy we can get 5% vs burning twice + 10 % on fire + 20% when the mob is under 33, pyromanancers puissace is a weak choise for dagger and will add alot more that empowering might as the might given lasts twice as much, the auto atack on glass in 2,5k no crit, no under 33%.

While i understand you are trying to prove that guardians are superior all the time that is not true, at the least when you compare ranged dps with a elementalist.

Edited by Rulerdragon, 19 February 2013 - 08:02 PM.

[Rulerdragon]

AzureRogue, on 19 February 2013 - 07:02 PM, said:

And yes, Rulerdragon, I skipped Puissance (even though it would be in my traits if I were making a real build) because I skipped empowering might on the guardian as well.

While i understand why you did it, taking empowering might compared to puissance is a diference at the very least of 200 or so power, as they need to lose 10 trait points +10 power and empowering might gives 5s might vs 10s of puissace wich makes puissace far superior.

[GuanglaiKangyi]

There's a very easy way to resolve this:

Elementalist: 30/30/0/10/0 - Internal Fire, Pyromancer's Alacrity, Pyromancer's Puissance, Bolt to the Heart, Vital Striking
Divinity Runes and Sigil of Force
Pyromancer's Puissance = ~6 stacks = +210 power = ~9.5% damage
Crit chance = 52%, crit damage = +104% --> Crit modifier = 180%
Damage boosts: 10% (Internal Fire), 5% (Burning Rage), 20/3% (Bolt to the Heart), 10% (Vital Striking), 5% (Sigil of Force) = +42%
Fireball: 754 per 1.33s = 567/sec
Lava Font: 2840 total, .83s cast, 5.63s CD = 2370 net, +421/s
Meteor Shower: 1154 per hit, 5s cast, 29s CD = +627 net damage with 3 hits, +1154 for successive hits = +22/s + 40/s extra hit over 3
Total damage = 567 + 421 + 22 + 40 per extra MS hit = 988 + 22 + 40 base, 2525 + 56 (for 3 meteors) + 102 (per extra meteor hit) overall

Guardian: 20/30/20/0/0, Fiery Wrath, Scepter Power, Radiant Power, Retributive Armor, Right-Hand Strength
Divinity Runes and Sigil of Force, Sigil of Strength (~4 stacks)
Crit chance: 73%, crit damage +95% --> crit modifier = 206%
Damage boosts: 10% (Fiery Wrath), 10% (Radiant Power), 5% (Scepter Power), 5% (Sigil of Force), 6.7% (Sigil of Strength) = +42.3%

Orb of Wrath: 503 per .83s = 606/s
Smite: 3810 per .83s, 6.83s CD = +469/s
Total = 606 + 469 = 1075 base, 3151 overall

That means the difference is about 600 damage between scepter and staff, so Meteor Shower needs to hit 9 times before it makes equivalent damage.  That's not impossible (I'm averaging about 8 on an oakheart) but it isn't particularly likely either.  There's also the fact that you have to keep your health above 90%, which isn't always possible, and in the situations where it is (i.e. you're not getting attacked because you're at 1200 range) a guardian could take Unscathed Contender, which would put his overall damage at 3645.

And again, I would like you to name a situation where AOE DPS is actually useful, outside of clearing large groups of trash mobs which die in two seconds anyway regardless of DPS output.

[AzureRogue]

And again, I would like to name any of open world PvE, defending/attacking any non-camp structure in WvW, high level fractals "trash" mobs, and general dungeons (because if no one is dealing AoE then you're going to kill one mob at a time - which is a waste).

[Rulerdragon]

You forgot to acount for signet of fire  4% crit, piromancer is ~10 not 6 , arcane blast is used on cd aprox +150 dps there and thats just a quick look at your maths.

i am not saying for sure elementalist single target ranged dps is superior or not to the guardian, what im trying to saying is that the when you consider aoe potencial is extremently superior and as said if the post above theres a whole range of places when it is priceless.

Think for example the grawl fractal last boss, the fight is considerably simpler if you can aoe the crap down of the lava elemental or the dredge fractal army wave parts.

Edited by Rulerdragon, 20 February 2013 - 12:48 AM.

[Westwater]

Rulerdragon, on 20 February 2013 - 12:40 AM, said:

Think for example the grawl fractal last boss, the fight is considerably simpler if you can aoe the crap down of the lava elementals.

Or a guardian could just wall of reflection and have them kill themselves.  They don't have a lot of health, and after they go down that aoe damage doesn't help kill the boss any faster.

[GuanglaiKangyi]

Rulerdragon, on 20 February 2013 - 12:40 AM, said:

You forgot to acount for signet of fire  4% crit, piromancer is ~10 not 6 , arcane blast is used on cd aprox +150 dps there and thats just a quick look at your maths.

i am not saying for sure elementalist single target ranged dps is superior or not to the guardian, what im trying to saying is that the when you consider aoe potencial is extremently superior and as said if the post above theres a whole range of places when it is priceless.

Think for example the grawl fractal last boss, the fight is considerably simpler if you can aoe the crap down of the lava elemental or the dredge fractal army wave parts.

Or the guardian could just switch to greatsword and spin to win.  AOE on the elementals is pointless anyway unless you can pull them together.  In fact, in pretty much any dungeon situation you're better off just meleeing with pretty much any melee weapon with cleave (i.e. anything but dagger) than relying on ranged AOE.  Range is only particularly useful on bosses, which is kind of the point.  If you're bringin an elementalist to range the big dredge mobs in fractals or the grawl shaman spawns you're doing something wrong.

Also, 6 stacks is right.  It's 10s of might but you're not going to be casting at 1 per second given fireball's super slow cast time.