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#31 Flaming_Foxx

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 01:01 AM

It sounds as if they have been told by NCSoft execs not to include any Canthan (and by extension Asian) related content. Canthan/Chinese New Year is encompassed in this.

Keep in mind that NCSoft is a South-Korean based company and someone there may have seen it as inappropriate to include content that is based on the mixing of a whole lot of different Asian cultures. (Obviously it's a more sensitive issue over there since us Westerner's are rather used to the complete mish-mashing of cultures and mythologies). So yes, you will still find Canthan NPC's in GW2 and references to Cantha, but they've been quite careful not to put in anything that is culturally specific beyond what had already been included in GW1.

In the future it is definitely possible that Cantha might be opened up, but at the moment it's closed and Anet quite likely aren't actively working on it. If/When Cantha is put back on the table that is when we would see Canthan NY celebrated in Tyria. Until then it isn't going to happen.

As to why 'minor' holiday events aren't included in GW. Can you imagine how taxing it would be on Anet to have to try and conjure up something (even if that is just changing drops or adding NPC's, all of which has to be coded, tested, scripted etc) for a whole lot of things that aren't relevant to the GW universe.

The reason we have Halloween and Wintersday is because they've been grounded in the GW lore. Halloween relate to the story of The Mad King and WIntersday has it's roots in the changing of the seasons and a rivalry of sorts between Dwayna and Grenth.

As for someone bringing up Chinese New Year being a widely celebrated event. It is, but the vast majority of those who celebrate it are people who live in China. People who at the moment cannot play the game. It's probably important to point out that a different company will be handling the Chinese GW2 release so it won't impact our version of GW2 in the slightest. They will be playing on seperate servers and some of the lore most likely will be changed to better accommodate them. So even a Chinese release of GW2 isn't likely to bring Chinese New Year onto the calendar.

The only thing that will bring CNY is Cantha. Which we presently do not have.

#32 NuclearDonut

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 01:29 AM

I normally try to be understanding and reasonable, but I really don't understand the reasoning behind Cantha being put on hold. Are people really that sensitive about their cultures that a shitstorm would be created from Cantha combining a few aspects of different cultures? That's a serious question, because I think NCSoft may just be playing it too safe. I can't see how anyone would get that offended over a small thing in a video game, but I know people have before lol.

#33 Flaming_Foxx

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 01:35 AM

View PostNuclearDonut, on 10 February 2013 - 01:29 AM, said:

I normally try to be understanding and reasonable, but I really don't understand the reasoning behind Cantha being put on hold. Are people really that sensitive about their cultures that a shitstorm would be created from Cantha combining a few aspects of different cultures? That's a serious question, because I think NCSoft may just be playing it too safe. I can't see how anyone would get that offended over a small thing in a video game, but I know people have before lol.

You realize that China is a communist country where you aren't even allowed to bring newspapers from other countries in and they can throw you in jail for using Twitter.
So yeah, I can imagine them actually taking huge offense with having their culture mashed together with Japanese and Korean culture etc. (although I do still think it's extremely ridiculous)

In GW1 they originally intended to have Panda's in game as charmable animals for the release of Factions but had to remove it because it would be considered offensive to Chinese people to have a protected species represented in a way that it could die. I think recently they put Panda's back in because they no longer run GW1 in China. But still, pretty huge. Especially considering that Tigers are also an endangered species yet nobody threw a shitstorm about them being charmable animals/killable in GW xD.

Edited by Flaming_Foxx, 10 February 2013 - 01:38 AM.


#34 FoxBat

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 01:51 AM

View PostFlaming_Foxx, on 10 February 2013 - 01:01 AM, said:

It sounds as if they have been told by NCSoft execs not to include any Canthan (and by extension Asian) related content.

I don't know why people keep quoting execs, it's the asian focus groups (i.e. test customers) that reacted poorly to it, according to Anet. Surely the execs would've stepped in at the concept art stage before Anet bothered to model the Canthan district.

Quote

It's probably important to point out that a different company will be handling the Chinese GW2 release so it won't impact our version of GW2 in the slightest. They will be playing on seperate servers and some of the lore most likely will be changed to better accommodate them. So even a Chinese release of GW2 isn't likely to bring Chinese New Year onto the calendar.

Can you point me to this? As I recall all they announced was a specific distributor for GW2 boxes in China. Such a company wouldn't touch the game content at all, they just move boxes to local stores.

Edited by FoxBat, 10 February 2013 - 01:52 AM.


#35 Flaming_Foxx

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 01:59 AM

View PostFoxBat, on 10 February 2013 - 01:51 AM, said:

I don't know why people keep quoting execs, it's the asian focus groups (i.e. test customers) that reacted poorly to it, according to Anet. Surely the execs would've stepped in at the concept art stage before Anet bothered to model the Canthan district.



Can you point me to this? As I recall all they announced was a specific distributor for GW2 boxes in China. Such a company wouldn't touch the game content at all.

Cannot find. Unfortunately I don't keep track of every website I visit on the internet so, no quote. Would be just as easy for you go out and find it than for me to.

But I'm certain there will be a separate company handling GW2 in China. Anet doesn't have the staff to manage running it in China as well and there is a pretty massive language barrier. They did the same thing for GW1, I don't see it being any different for GW2. I don't see China reacting very well at all to the Sylvari's sexuality, taking into consideration that when Westerns films or novels with non-hetero content are taken to China they are edited heavily. Cloud Atlas has had such scenes removed from it for the Chinese release. They are hardly going to let GW2 through without removing the gay relationships that are featured pretty heavily within the Sylvari storylines (which is depressingly disappointing in my opinion)

#36 NuclearDonut

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:02 AM

View PostFlaming_Foxx, on 10 February 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

You realize that China is a communist country where you aren't even allowed to bring newspapers from other countries in and they can throw you in jail for using Twitter.
So yeah, I can imagine them actually taking huge offense with having their culture mashed together with Japanese and Korean culture etc. (although I do still think it's extremely ridiculous)

In GW1 they originally intended to have Panda's in game as charmable animals for the release of Factions but had to remove it because it would be considered offensive to Chinese people to have a protected species represented in a way that it could die. I think recently they put Panda's back in because they no longer run GW1 in China. But still, pretty huge. Especially considering that Tigers are also an endangered species yet nobody threw a shitstorm about them being charmable animals/killable in GW xD.

I see. China, you have disappointed me and made me a sad panda on this day.

#37 Darkobra

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:09 AM

View PostKhrushchev, on 09 February 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

https://forum-en.gui...ion-of-humanity

This post on the official forums is relevant. Official response on the second page. (https://forum-en.gui...e/2#post1385108)

My friend was always thinking about a refund. This was the nail in the coffin for him. I'll still hold on to faith and hope one day they'll change it and make things better universally, getting more and more jaded with each update.

I find it ridiculous that it's "culturally insensitive" to add an Asian-like continent when it's actually celebrated and not ridiculed within the Guild Wars world! Everything was done tactfully! Surely any valid complaints about Cantha would have been addressed 7 years ago?

#38 NuclearDonut

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:14 AM

View PostDarkobra, on 10 February 2013 - 02:09 AM, said:

My friend was always thinking about a refund. This was the nail in the coffin for him. I'll still hold on to faith and hope one day they'll change it and make things better universally, getting more and more jaded with each update.

I find it ridiculous that it's "culturally insensitive" to add an Asian-like continent when it's actually celebrated and not ridiculed within the Guild Wars world! Everything was done tactfully! Surely any valid complaints about Cantha would have been addressed 7 years ago?

I normally disagree with most of your comments, but I wholeheartedly agree. I think the sensitivity here is a bit ridiculous. Cantha was by far my favorite area of GW1, and if it doesn't make it into GW2 I will be beyond disappointed.

#39 AKGeo

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:18 AM

View PostDaesu, on 10 February 2013 - 12:03 AM, said:

If you want to go by the lore, Cantha already exists in GW2.

Cantha already existed in GW1, and was even more prevalent in Prophecies before Factions was released. In GW2 lore, Cantha is closed off completely. No Xunlai order, nothing. So it makes even LESS sense to celebrate Canthan new year in GW2. Try again.

#40 MrIllusion

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:49 AM

I think it needs to be said that everything here is speculation.

No one knows the real reason they dropped Cantha.

#41 I'm Squirrel

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 04:59 AM

I didn't even know they dropped Cantha. I probably would have gotten a refund if I knew. :(

View PostAKGeo, on 10 February 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

Cantha already existed in GW1, and was even more prevalent in Prophecies before Factions was released. In GW2 lore, Cantha is closed off completely. No Xunlai order, nothing. So it makes even LESS sense to celebrate Canthan new year in GW2. Try again.

Yes but, Tyria knew Cantha existed for a long time. It would make sense that they would celebrate it for the sake of the Canthans living in Tyria, and i'm pretty sure there Canthans who immigrated to Divinity's Reach.


View PostKorra, on 09 February 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

sorry to bring the bad news but Anet is not allowed to put any kind of asian reference in the game. They have even been forbiden by Ncsoft to do cantha for what we know, this might change in the future.

What about the Tengu, and their terrible voice-over fake japanese accents?

Edited by I'm Squirrel, 10 February 2013 - 05:01 AM.


#42 hellcast_pdr

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:02 AM

Chill out. it's still the game's first year. i still don't understand why a lot of people want thing that took almost 5 years to get into GW1 to be in GW2 right NOW.

View PostI, on 10 February 2013 - 04:59 AM, said:

I didn't even know they dropped Cantha. I probably would have gotten a refund if I knew. :(

really? a refund for 1 area in 1 expansion from the previous game? it might get in, it might not. or it might be something interely different. They have references to it so nothing is sure.

I was really happy that halloween and wintersday were in so close after release, as i believe they should be focussing on correcting stuff instead of making festivals and mega-events (altough i like them :) ), but that's my opinion.

Edited by hellcast_pdr, 10 February 2013 - 05:05 AM.


#43 Captain Bulldozer

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:14 AM

View PostLordkrall, on 09 February 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

Having a few NPCs and decoration is not what I would consider "celebrating". Every quest and the final took place in Cantha around Shing Jea Monastery.

True, the few Canthan refugees could fix something up, but they are quite few and it is quite possible that most of their traditions are forgotten, seeing as they most likely fled several generations ago.

I have yet to hear or see anything about this supposed prohibition from NCSoft so I call BS until something links a source for it.

Wrong again.  There were CNY quests in Elona as well as Cantha.  Also, the refugee status of the Canthans in Tyria might very well make them MORE likely to band together and celebrate such a festival.  Also, the tradition of celebrating the event in L.A. and Kamadan could very well have caught on with the locals (and would be adapted to suit the local flavor the way holidays like Christmas have been in our own world).  If NCSOFT had not axed the Canthan quarter of D.R. you can bet that anet would have definitely had some sort of celebration in GW2 for this...  If you want to learn more about the official decision to keep Asian themed elements out of GW2, read up on it at the official forums (someone has already posted a link to a thread that even has some developer response about it)

Honestly,  Canthan New Year was by far my favorite celebration in GW1.... the thought of it not coming back, but of more toy-makers and clock-tower puzzles is really depressing.

#44 Yumiya

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 11:19 AM

Being Chinese myself, besides celebrating in real life, I also sent everyone in my friendslist a red bag (hong bao), Noodles (for long life), orange (luck in finances), doubloon (lucky coin) and a Heavy Bag of Coins.

I didn't really expected it'd be an event in GW2. It would have been fun, but like mentioned, the game just started out, and then I'm not even mentioning that Cantha issue. With some imagination you can easily set up a festival on your own.

I'm still running around setting off fireworks in LA. OvO

#45 FoxBat

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 12:54 PM

View PostMrIllusion, on 10 February 2013 - 03:49 AM, said:

I think it needs to be said that everything here is speculation.

No one knows the real reason they dropped Cantha.

http://wiki.guildwar...lincolncast34-0

#46 JulianCasablancas

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 04:49 AM

View PostLordkrall, on 09 February 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

...What?
They have a Canthan New Year in GW1 which concluded just a few days ago.

We don't have Cantha as a continent (isolated from Tyria for... 250 years?). It doesn't get any clearer than this lol. Also back in GW1 only Kaineng/Shing Jea would have the decorations for Chinese New Year. This also gives ANET more time to hopefully improve the game.

I'm actually Chinese IRL so I got to celebrate anyway :P

#47 Azure Skye

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 05:37 AM

View PostFoxBat, on 10 February 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

You got to remember Anet isn't isn't the only one that changed content on their game. Remember WoW WoTLK?

http://news.mmosite....version,1.shtml

Now we know that we are going to Elona or somewhere else new in the next expansion. .

#48 Runkleford

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:42 AM

Well this is disappointing. One of the biggest things I was looking forward to in GW2 was an expansion to Cantha, especially since it's my favorite continent in GW1. So my interest in any future expansions has been severely diminished by this news.

#49 Kymeric

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:24 PM

There could be a Canthan New Year festival in Divinity's Reach.  The Canthan district collapsed, but there are supposedly plenty of displaced Canthans in DR.

It could easily be written as a story about the triumph of the human spirit, as the homeless Canthan population pulls together to celebrate their New Year even though they have recently experienced such tragedy.  It could also be an act of solidarity on the part of the rest of DR in joining their Canthan neighbors in the celebration.  The fact that they are homeless would make it easier to avoid the original sticking point, which is that NCsoft didn't want a blending of Korean and Chinese architecture.

I don't expect it will happen, but it could be pretty awesome.

Until the information on why the Canthan district was wiped out came to light just recently, I always wondered why we didn't see more story throughout DR about those displaced Canthans and how they are dealing with having to flee their homes before the collapse.

#50 Korra

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:30 PM

Too much people losing faith on arenanet while they are just the lowest tier in what we call guild wars 2.

#51 BrettM

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:13 PM

View PostKymeric, on 11 February 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

The fact that they are homeless would make it easier to avoid the original sticking point, which is that NCsoft didn't want a blending of Korean and Chinese architecture.
It sounds to me like the architecture is only part of the sticking point. Everything involved in a blend of Asian cultures, such as names and clothing styles, is part of the problem. I suppose the only way we're ever going to see Cantha is if ANet can do the impossible and come up with an "Asian" culture that contains no recognizable element of any actual Asian culture of the past or present. Good luck with that!

#52 fatrodmc

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 05:43 PM

Wow what an incredibly stupid move by NCSoft...

#53 Karuro

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:08 PM

Quite disappointing to hear about the No-Cantha stuff.
Makes me surprised that you can still be of Canthan descent in the Personal Story.

If the Canthan quarters were still intact (and the testgroup not being oh so sensitive), CNY could've been kept as a small festival in only that district.

#54 Verelia

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 07:33 PM

...Not wanted to be pedantic but didn't they effectively mix a whole bunch of west European cultures together in Ascalon and Kryta? In fact they did worse as whereas in Prophecies Kryta felt very jungle-like and Mediterranean by War on Kryta effectively they pushed it back to being distinctly west European and that's stayed in GW 2 as well. Didn't they in a sense mix up Africa, Turkey, Arabia etc in Elona? It's sort of what Guild Wars did. My apologies if any of this seems over generalised and crass, it's getting late here.

From what I gather they're mainly showing that it's peaceful in Cantha now, well, provided you aren't a tengu or another non human. Isn't there any chance of just showing you can have a distinct culture whilst being at peace? I'd say that could be a very positive message if given a fantastical flair.

Also as someone else said, no Cantha would be a shame. That's the one thing I was looking forward to bar seeing Palawa Joko again (crazy old undead king, you). Hoping they find some way of making it work...

#55 Korra

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 08:23 PM

I'm pretty sure eventually we will end up getting cantha.

#56 AKGeo

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 08:29 PM

So my last post was deleted for being "racially insensitive" and "off topic". Which is bogus. It was about China being hypocritical and overly pandered to. Which is directly related to this subject. They whinge about the content yet even after it's removed, ban the game from their country. Well, Anet should re-introduce the Canthan district to Divinity's Reach, and stop pandering to a nation (not racially motivated, it's simply about the leaders of China and their idiocy) that offers nothing to the world other than cheap goods and a whole lot of drama. Anet's not going to get anything from China anyway.

#57 FoxBat

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:27 PM

View PostVerelia, on 12 February 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

...Not wanted to be pedantic but didn't they effectively mix a whole bunch of west European cultures together in Ascalon and Kryta? In fact they did worse as whereas in Prophecies Kryta felt very jungle-like and Mediterranean by War on Kryta effectively they pushed it back to being distinctly west European and that's stayed in GW 2 as well. Didn't they in a sense mix up Africa, Turkey, Arabia etc in Elona? It's sort of what Guild Wars did. My apologies if any of this seems over generalised and crass, it's getting late here.

Taking the moral high road isn't always a good way to sell a product. In fact it's often more effective to pander to people's preconceived notions than try to push them outside their comfort zone. (See: American cable news networks. Or hell, London newspapers.) East asia just has different prejudices to pander to. Europeans may be comfortable with fantasy worlds mixing and mashing their own cultures, and yet modern Kryta has still inexplicably turned mostly white in just 250 years.

Edited by FoxBat, 12 February 2013 - 11:30 PM.


#58 Arshay Duskbrow

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:36 AM

More importantly, how will they do the Tengu and Dominion of Winds without asian elements? I don't mind losing Cantha, but I have to have my playable Tengu.

#59 Evans

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:54 AM

Bah, let a dragon blow up Cantha for all I care, then it will must certainly be the empire of the dragon. So much commotion over nothing. Is this the same at Blizzard with their "Pandarians"?

I loved Cantha but should I be offended because they had "Asian" Germans or Greeks?

#60 WinterSnowblind

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:15 PM

Not sure I buy into this whole "they can't do Cantha" thing, nothing by the staff member in that forum posts indicates anything, except that they aren't currently working on it.

As for Canthan New Year, I'm sure the main reason to leave it out is that we already just had Halloween and Wintersday.  I know GW1 ended up with a lot of festivals, but they were added over a number of years.  Doing another big festival in GW2 would have felt far too soon, like the only type of new content we're getting is festivals that can be reused each other.  I'm pretty sure this will change later.




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