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#1 FireOfFerocity

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:51 AM

This is my first topic/post here, just because this is something I've been pondering about for quite some time now ( And I assume many people have already asked this before so my apologies for asking it again but I haven't found any decent answers so far while quick-searching )

I recently reached level 80 on my first character( which is an elementalist, because let's be honest, elementalist was the coolest class in GW1 ,  I played it for 6 six years there on my main character and never got bored of it )

So I chose to wield a staff because I really wanted to do AoE damage ( especially Meteor Shower because that brought up some nostalgic feelings ).
And I assume it's best for a elementalist to stay in the back to avoid damage and deal massive damage so I usually tend to go for armour that improves my power and condition damage.

But on the other hand, my elite skill is Fiery Greatsword ( which I love to use because it deals massive damage to groups when combined with decent skills )

So now I'm wondering, should I invest in toughness/vitality or is it just stupid to do so and just stop rushing into battle ?
Because I do like to rush into battle when facing large groups, lure them all around me and cast a lot of AoE spells, which often gets to the point that I'm down but then again, once I'm down it's easy to just kill enemies because they're health has already diminished by 90%.
But on the other hand , it works fine on groups but it's harder when facing a tough enemy when I'm all on my own.

#2 BlaineTog

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:53 PM

It's counterintuitive, but Staff actually isn't the Eles damage weapon.  It's more for support and range.  In open-world PvE, my preference is Scepter/Dagger, but a lot of people like Dagger/Dagger.  You'll get way, way more damage and won't waste most of the weapon's power when enemies get close to you (which they will) or when you're only facing one boss (Staff is really bad at single-target nuking, and I only use it for that against bosses who murder you if you get close enough to use Scepter skills).

That said, if you're dead-set on using a staff in PvE, I'd stick Glyph of Lesser Elemental on your bar permanently (it should probably be there anyway, to be honest) and go for that Power/Toughness/Vitality gear.  You can't realistically prevent most mobs from closing in on you without an unfeasible amount of kiting.

#3 turkashi

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:13 AM

Had the same thinking as you, I've played ele like crazy in GW1, but things had changed a bit. You can't see ele as a 5ton nuclear missle that can single hand kill Lupi (one of the most frustrating/fun/hardcore/easy/... boss in Arah).

Ele become more a support class: you do quite nice among of healing (even without healing gear/trait), you do "ok" dmg, you give sh#tload of boons.
As BlaineTog said, Staff is more suitable for AOE/support, but on boss I'm using D/D for single target + support

About your question: It depend how your play style, are you playing with friends that can take some dmg so you can stay behind, then you probably can drop vit/thg or both and invest some more in healing/dmg.If you solo, then vit+thg will be nice.
When I hit lvl 80 I got pwr/vit/thg (AC set) because that a quit easy dungeon to get my first exotic gear. Now I'm using Balthazar set, COF set and Arah set.

#4 Geschan

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:40 PM

View PostBlaineTog, on 15 February 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

It's counterintuitive, but Staff actually isn't the Eles damage weapon.

Now that's just wrong. People are underestimating the staff. With fire attunement and a proper play style Elementalist can dish out a lot of damage while supporting the party with defense/healing and a lot of might.
The trick with Elementalist is that you don't need a lot of defensive stats. Especially with a staff equipped. I'm running with 50/50 Knight Soldier Armor and all other Items Berserker and I have no problems surviving anything at all. Elementalist can take quite a beating considering their low health and armor. And the reason for that are traits and spells.
I'm running with Earth Embrace and Renewing Stamina. That means that if i get low an Armor of Earth Proc will make sure my next heal gets through properly and I have a 100% uptime of vigor.
The trick is to find some kind of balance between defense and offense. Since the staff is rather defensive (Frozen Ground, Stoning, Magnetic Aura, Burning Retreat etc.) even with Bosses (Stuns and Dazes don't work there). It is possible to really go almost full Berserker if you throw in some defensive traits. (For example the ones i use) But that means you have to fully utilize all skills that can save your butt.
If you are doing everything right, it is possible to maintain at least 10 stacks of might for the whole group, a solid uptime of weakness and protection and dish out considerable amount of damage.

My Build for Dungeons:
http://gw2skills.net...IwoQIiCWUeMTO2A with Rune of Altruism

Edited by Geschan, 18 February 2013 - 11:45 PM.


#5 turkashi

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 03:46 PM

Geshan, is it possible to show me/us some footage about it?
I'm using staff too in 99% of the dungeons, but I can't do what you say "playing defensive" (if I read I suppose you're doing the controlling/tanking) while have 10stack of might on you and your allies. (I can't even get 5stack of might for myself)

thx!

#6 Thaddeuz

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 04:53 PM

View PostGeschan, on 18 February 2013 - 11:40 PM, said:

Now that's just wrong. People are underestimating the staff. With fire attunement and a proper play style Elementalist can dish out a lot of damage while supporting the party with defense/healing and a lot of might.
The trick with Elementalist is that you don't need a lot of defensive stats. Especially with a staff equipped. I'm running with 50/50 Knight Soldier Armor and all other Items Berserker and I have no problems surviving anything at all. .

Don't take it as an attack, but how can you say you do a lot of damage with the Staff with your build. I don't say your build is bad at all. I'm just saying that I don't understand how you can say its a lot of damage. You got 100 Power/Precision and 10% Critical Dmg from your trait, and you are using Knight and Soldier armor. You have about 50% less critical damage, 12% critical chance and about 250 less power than a Glass Canon Ele. I don't say a glass canon Ele is better than your build, but a glass canon ele have a lot of damage, you don't since you sacrifice offensive stats for defensive ones.

#7 Geschan

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 07:20 PM

10 Stacks of Might is actually quite easy: Start in Earth. Place an Eruption. Switch to Fire. Place a Lava Font. Arcane Wave (1 Might from Fire, 3 from Eruption, 3 from Arcane Wave = 7). Place Lava Font. Switch to Earth. Roll into the Lava Font -> Another 3 Stacks of Might. All in a window of 10 seconds. Rinse repeat. All but the one Might from the Attunment should stay for about 30 seconds.

@ Thaddeuz: A glass canon ele can definitly dish out a lot more damage. BUT a glass canon dies a lot faster. And dead people don't do damage. Most likely it is possible to run my build with berserker gear, but at least for me full berserker was too fragile. As I posted the trick is to find balance. In the end you are comparing drag racing (glass canon) to the 24 Hours of Le Mans (balanced).

#8 BlaineTog

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 09:15 PM

View PostGeschan, on 18 February 2013 - 11:40 PM, said:

Now that's just wrong.
You can do damage with staff, but I stand by my characterization.  You can lay down decent DPS in staff, but that doesn't make it the Ele's "damage weapon."  There's a difference there.  Any profession can deal damage with any weapon, but each weapon is intended to have a niche where it's the better choice.  Because the staff has such good AoE, it's not as good at single-target or small-group fights as other Ele weapons.  Because it has such good range, it isn't as good at close-up fights as the others.  Because it has such strong support and control, its damage is weaker.  That's just a matter of trade-offs, and trade-offs are what make for interesting choices.

Now, PvE isn't very hard and the game was designed to give you options, so you can get by running a staff Ele in open-world PvE and it'll work fine, especially if you build for it very carefully.  You're fighting up hill somewhat, but you can still do it if it's what you find fun.  We can quibble over whether to accomplish such a build by slipping defenses into items or traits but if we agree that glass cannon staff eles are too risky in PvE, it ultimately doesn't matter where your defense comes from as long as you have it in the right amount.

The Staff is actually my favorite weapon set for the Ele, but when it comes to single target damage and personal protection, it's just night and day compared to the other sets.

Edited by BlaineTog, 19 February 2013 - 09:28 PM.


#9 Bloggi

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 10:32 PM

View Postturkashi, on 19 February 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

Geshan, is it possible to show me/us some footage about it?
I'm using staff too in 99% of the dungeons, but I can't do what you say "playing defensive" (if I read I suppose you're doing the controlling/tanking) while have 10stack of might on you and your allies. (I can't even get 5stack of might for myself)

thx!

In addition to what Geshan mentioned, consider also Superior Sigil of Battle for your staff. There is a cooldown on the sigil but it does offer might stacks to yourself while switching attunements. I personally also use runes that boost boon duration which makes it easier to maintain those might stacks for longer, along with a bonus to boon duration in general (eg. with the trait Elemental Attunement, but you need to be close to your allies to boon them in this manner) which appears to be helpful if you are in to 'support'.

#10 turkashi

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 11:50 AM

Thx both for this information.




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