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Clueless Engineer, are kits just a gimmick?


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#1 Elysen

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:08 AM

Hello.

I'm looking for a very versatile profession to play when I'm sick of playing my "OP" professions (Guardian & Mesmer). I instantly limited this to Ele & Engie. Having a Mesmer & Necro, Ele wasn't on the table so I'm looking to start an Engineer.

I shall not lie, I tend to know a lot about all the professions. But Engineer? Not a sodding clue.

I constantly hear "Engineers suck, nobody should be them" or "Engineer has no place in dungeons or WvW". This has always worried me, as I don't want to be a profession because they're "OP", but I certainly don't want to be a profession that is downright useless. Of course, I know Engies take a long time to master, so perhaps this is where all the negative feedback is from.

Looking past all this, I'll be looking to play around with Grenades most the time, but would also like to try out Bombs & Flamethrower. Turrets, Elixirs etc. don't concern me. But will kits provide me with the versatility I seek, or are they just a gimmick to create an excuse for a different profession?

Finally, for the sake of not wanting to be useless, where does an Engie excel at that other professions fall below? I have heard they are competent ranged AOE dps, and can provide some incredible support, but where does this lie in comparison to what other professions bring.

I've been contemplating trialing an Engineer for about 2 months now, but I couldn't enjoy it if I am constantly kicked from groups. This is why I am asking the latter question. Thanks for your time.

Edited by Xephenon, 11 February 2013 - 02:12 AM.


#2 Coren

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:41 AM

View PostXephenon, on 11 February 2013 - 02:08 AM, said:

Hello.

I'm looking for a very versatile profession to play when I'm sick of playing my "OP" professions (Guardian & Mesmer). I instantly limited this to Ele & Engie. Having a Mesmer & Necro, Ele wasn't on the table so I'm looking to start an Engineer.

I shall not lie, I tend to know a lot about all the professions. But Engineer? Not a sodding clue.

I constantly hear "Engineers suck, nobody should be them" or "Engineer has no place in dungeons or WvW". This has always worried me, as I don't want to be a profession because they're "OP", but I certainly don't want to be a profession that is downright useless. Of course, I know Engies take a long time to master, so perhaps this is where all the negative feedback is from.

Looking past all this, I'll be looking to play around with Grenades most the time, but would also like to try out Bombs & Flamethrower. Turrets, Elixirs etc. don't concern me. But will kits provide me with the versatility I seek, or are they just a gimmick to create an excuse for a different profession?

Finally, for the sake of not wanting to be useless, where does an Engie excel at that other professions fall below? I have heard they are competent ranged AOE dps, and can provide some incredible support, but where does this lie in comparison to what other professions bring.

I've been contemplating trialing an Engineer for about 2 months now, but I couldn't enjoy it if I am constantly kicked from groups. This is why I am asking the latter question. Thanks for your time.

Ok I'll go all out on this one :)

First of all, there's two types of kit engineers out there. There's the guys like me who believe that one kit defines your role and who believe that more than one kit spreads you too thin. Others believe that 2 or more give you the flexibility that's required.

Both are valid, it's down to what you prefer. Personally I prefer taking one kit and filling the rest with elixirs or, rarely, gadgets (gadgets are more useful in PvP, as they are situational).

Here's my breakdown of kits and their uses:

Grenades: best AoE DPS in the game as far as I am concerned, especially once you trait to get 3 grenades per toss with 1500 range. I normally go.for condition damage because you can easily stack bleeds, poison and fire (if.traited). Stacking vulnerability is easy too, more so on crits. Great for WvW too thanks to extra range and AoE.

Bombs: my tanky kit. Immobilize and perma 5 second blinds? Yes please. Can be used for healing too if traited.

Flamethrower: half way between bomb survivability and grenade flexibility. It's mid range AoE with a constant stream of burning. If traited, you get extra toughness and a permanent stack of 7power (8 if you put points in boon duration). Can push, blind (once) and only condition that damages is fire, so most go beserker for that kit. Those numbers sure fly high on crits :)

Tool kit: very situational and mostly used with turrets, since it allows to repair them. Has decent cc, I mostly used it as a bunker.

Elixir gun: conditions and healing, elixir gun is the support kit, but can be also used for condition damage do a.degree. I mostly use it when AoE healing is necessary and condition (weakness, poison, bleeding) is necessary.

Now, some may not agree, but I tend to prefer elixirs for PvE, since they are less situational than gadgets. My favorites being elixir b (fury, haste and power) and grants one of these three to others when thrown via toolbelt and elixir s, giving you complete immunity to everything for four.seconds, but I admit it's thrown version sucks.

Main weapons are quite straightforward. Rifle for.crit builds, dual pistols for conditions (bleed, burning, confusion, blind, immobilize, poison), pistol and shield for tank (shield gives projectile reflection and stun).

hope it helps a bit :)

Edited by Coren, 11 February 2013 - 07:29 AM.


#3 ben911993

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:14 AM

I've recently started playing an engineer as well, and I'm quite in love with it. The engie offers a lot of versatility and flexibility that other professions (aside from ele) lack. I've found kits to be a great help in normal pve so I can deal with whatever situation I find myself in. I use the bomb kit when facing a lot of melee, grenades for ranged, and the elixir gun for good single target damage.

Personally, I prefer the bomb kit over grenades. Stacking a lot of power with the bomb kit makes you hit like a truck, while the grenade's auto attack is pretty lack luster for damage. That said, my engineer is only level 25, so I don't have a full grasp on what is truly strong and what isn't. I've heard though that grenades are excellent for stacking aoe vulnerability, which is a huge help to your group.

However, once I'm familiar with a particular place and know what to expect, I can build more accordingly, meaning I only need one kit and my other utilities are free. Like Coren, I usually use elixirs or the occasional gadget. One of my favorite combinations right now is to use Elixir B, Elixir U, and then spam the hell out of the bomb kit auto attack. It rips melee mobs to shreds, and chews through a pretty good chunk of a veteran's health in 5 seconds.

So far I find, though, that the engineer doesn't really excel at any one particular thing. If you build for it, they can do good direct damage, but it won't top a warrior. An engineer can do some pretty great offensive and defensive support, from what I've seen, but it won't beat a guardian. And the engie can do pretty gnarly condition damage as well...I'm actually almost inclined to say they can do it best, since they have so many options for it, and they can inflict every condition. In fact, I'd definitely say condition damage will be a help for you. The only way it wouldn't add to your build is if you plan on only ever using the rifle. =P And even then, there's still a bleed on the rifle.

Overall I'd say the advantage the engineer has is being able to switch between any of those roles mid-combat with just the press of a button. Imo, engies are there to grease the wheels, to support the group and fill in the gaps the group is missing.

But this is all coming from an amateur engineer, so take it with a grain of salt. =)

#4 Coren

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:31 AM

View Postben911993, on 11 February 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

I've recently started playing an engineer as well, and I'm quite in love with it. The engie offers a lot of versatility and flexibility that other professions (aside from ele) lack. I've found kits to be a great help in normal pve so I can deal with whatever situation I find myself in. I use the bomb kit when facing a lot of melee, grenades for ranged, and the elixir gun for good single target damage.

Personally, I prefer the bomb kit over grenades. Stacking a lot of power with the bomb kit makes you hit like a truck, while the grenade's auto attack is pretty lack luster for damage. That said, my engineer is only level 25, so I don't have a full grasp on what is truly strong and what isn't. I've heard though that grenades are excellent for stacking aoe vulnerability, which is a huge help to your group.

However, once I'm familiar with a particular place and know what to expect, I can build more accordingly, meaning I only need one kit and my other utilities are free. Like Coren, I usually use elixirs or the occasional gadget. One of my favorite combinations right now is to use Elixir B, Elixir U, and then spam the hell out of the bomb kit auto attack. It rips melee mobs to shreds, and chews through a pretty good chunk of a veteran's health in 5 seconds.

So far I find, though, that the engineer doesn't really excel at any one particular thing. If you build for it, they can do good direct damage, but it won't top a warrior. An engineer can do some pretty great offensive and defensive support, from what I've seen, but it won't beat a guardian. And the engie can do pretty gnarly condition damage as well...I'm actually almost inclined to say they can do it best, since they have so many options for it, and they can inflict every condition. In fact, I'd definitely say condition damage will be a help for you. The only way it wouldn't add to your build is if you plan on only ever using the rifle. =P And even then, there's still a bleed on the rifle.

Overall I'd say the advantage the engineer has is being able to switch between any of those roles mid-combat with just the press of a button. Imo, engies are there to grease the wheels, to support the group and fill in the gaps the group is missing.

But this is all coming from an amateur engineer, so take it with a grain of salt. =)

True, leveling up bombs are better than grenades, but in the end that extra grenade from traits make the difference. Bombs are good, but I always saw them more as a.tanky kit, although I'm sure others would disagree.

Also, I agree elixir u is a great source of damage and thrown version adds a nice blind wall. For full dps options it's a must.

Edit: here's a build I've been using for a long time, and it's never let me astray (didn't put in armor or.jewels, because it's down to.preference, criticals or conditions).

http://gw2skills.net...eJSxjRZfe8WtFEC

Here's also a leveling build (level 30) which is pretty basic for leveling engineering. You get perma swiftness and vigor when swapping out for a kit. It also uses the bomb kit to maximum effect until you can put 30 points in explosives for grenades (provided you still want grenades).

http://gw2skills.net...1VUviEjK0ZRFyPA

Edited by Coren, 11 February 2013 - 08:46 AM.


#5 FoxBat

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:51 AM

To add to the support angle, one niche thing they are very good at is deep condition removal on allies. Elxir gun with Fumigate will pull 5 conditions off of every ally you can get into a breath cone, and it can recharge in 12 or 9 seconds. With that you get lots of other support options like making two healing light fields which each remove a condition on application, an escape that also does decent damage/time to someone stuck in place, cripple/speed buff, weakness, etc.

A major reason the grenade spec is so loved is it can max vulnerability stacks while still doing decent DPS, which is a great way of supporting the rest of your party, particularly in boss fights. Grenades + elixir gun + whatever is a cookie cutter dungeon build for a reason. Another area of excellence is AoE CC (particuarly with multiple kits), albiet less valued in boss fights.

#6 Gecko

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:19 AM

Engineer is fantastic. You can do almost anything once you get a semideep understanding of it. Try it now, you won't regret it.

#7 Coren

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:37 AM

View PostFoxBat, on 11 February 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

To add to the support angle, one niche thing they are very good at is deep condition removal on allies. Elxir gun with Fumigate will pull 5 conditions off of every ally you can get into a breath cone, and it can recharge in 12 or 9 seconds. With that you get lots of other support options like making two healing light fields which each remove a condition on application, an escape that also does decent damage/time to someone stuck in place, cripple/speed buff, weakness, etc.

A major reason the grenade spec is so loved is it can max vulnerability stacks while still doing decent DPS, which is a great way of supporting the rest of your party, particularly in boss fights. Grenades + elixir gun + whatever is a cookie cutter dungeon build for a reason. Another area of excellence is AoE CC (particuarly with multiple kits), albiet less valued in boss fights.

To remove conditions I prefer using the trait which allows to remove a condition on elixir toss, and since I often have 3 elixirs on me at all times, it's a great advantage. Also, that trait removes a condition on yourself when you drink an elixir.

#8 The_Blades

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:56 AM

hey, im just going to talk about my experience with engie.

I started out thinking it would be awesome, when i first made one, back on pre-release day.

It turned out not so good for me when leveling up, so i barelly ever played it when i hit 80. However, as of latelly, i've been having a blast, literally, i hate the grenades, dont know exactly why, so i mainly use bomb kit and elixirs.

It has a good survivability, decent dps, and good CC, big ol' bomb is great to get a few precious seconds, kiting and dropping glue is also a life saver.

As for the other kits, i mainly use them in dungeons elixir gun is great and flamethrower has it uses, i dont like it particularly though, Havent used the tool kit yet.

You can also use a different playstyle, for instance turrets are great to tag sparks near arah, dropping them in both sides ensure you get loot from almost every spark if there are other guys there farming.

Edited by The_Blades, 11 February 2013 - 09:57 AM.


#9 Reaper3354

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:59 AM

I won't get big on explanations, as there are plenty here that are quite justified. One that I haven't seen though, is that if you are indeed serious about being an Engineer, it is my opinion that, no matter what, you should always take that Elixir (H/C/B/F/W/meh) that grants a regain of your energy when consumed, as well as, my favorite part, revives an ally when thrown.

Now mind you, it Rallies, rather than revives, so you have to bear that in mine 200%, but it is in fact one of the Engineers most trusty skills out there. No joke, it has the range of a traited Grenade, and it rallies allies within its circle, no Engineer should ever pass up that sort of support.

#10 Calebrus

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 12:51 PM

I play a 0/30/0/20/20 build for one reason: I can change my major traits and utilities on the fly to completely change my role.
Need DPS? I can do it.
Need support? I can do it.
Need control? I can do it.
No matter what the party needs, I can fill that role.  If the party doesn't need anything particular, I'm spec'd as a hybrid DPS/support.

I've played them all to at least 30.  No other profession is as fun.  No other profession has that kind of flexibility.
During beta I absolutely hated the Engineer because I didn't really give kits a try.  After launch I decided that I'd give it another shot, really looked at the kits and tried them out, and around level 20-25 I started having a blast.  By the time I was 40 it had become my favorite and that opinion never changed.

The difference was the kits.  So are kits a gimmick?
Hell no.  The kits are what make the class so versatile and fun.

Edited by Calebrus, 11 February 2013 - 01:18 PM.


#11 Coren

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:24 PM

View PostCalebrus, on 11 February 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

I play a 0/30/0/20/20 build for one reason: I can change my major traits and utilities on the fly to completely change my role.
Need DPS? I can do it.
Need support? I can do it.
Need control? I can do it.
No matter what the party needs, I can fill that role.  If the party doesn't need anything particular, I'm spec'd as a hybrid DPS/support.

I've played them all to at least 30.  No other profession is as fun.  No other profession has that kind of flexibility.
During beta I absolutely hated the Engineer because I didn't really give kits a try.  After launch I decided that I'd give it another shot, really looked at the kits and tried them out, and around level 20-25 I started having a blast.  By the time I was 40 it had become my favorite and that opinion never changed.

The difference was the kits.  So are kits a gimmick?
Hell no.  The kits are what make the class so versatile and fun.

The swapping of kits for multiple roles is.easily done no matter what trait points you use. I also can use either bombs or elixir gun with a 30/20/0/20/0 disposition. That's one of the beauties of the engineer, you can easily give yourself the... Taste you want no matter the distribution.

#12 Solo Too

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 04:46 PM

The kits are what makes the Engi so much fun.  

Depending on your mood you can change kits to suit your style of play.  The Engi doesnt "excel" at any one thing but they can do everything very well.  All the other classes can do something better than the Engi but are less versatile.  The only thing that an Engi can do better than all classes is probably the condition removal.  But don't hold me to that as I have yet to play all the classes.  

A majority of folks like the grenades of the Engi which is understandable as it provides the largest DPS for the class.  I personally prefer the Bomb kit and Elixir Gun.  For me this is a perfect combo of semi decent tanking(bombs) with a good single target DPS (EG).  I can also provide great support with this build.  

I think what turns most people off about the Engi is the extra work that comes with the kits.  You have to swap out more often and many players just want to be lazy and face-roll everything.  I did that with Guardian and it got boring real quick.  This is a class where you have to be quick on your feet (and requires brain cells), because even one mistake can be costly.  

I certainly hope you give the Engi a try because I think a team of all Engi would just be unstoppable.  Hope this was of benefit to you.

#13 matsif

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:04 PM

kits are simply put the best thing about the class.  turrets are lackluster, gadgets are situational, the random effects of elixirs turn some off, but kits are awesome.  outside of tool kit (which is kinda gimmicky at best, although it has some uses in situations), all the other kits are completely viable.

grenades - an argument can be made that they are the best bleed spam in the game.  I personally tie them with necro, but easily holding 20+ stacks of both bleed and vulnerability on a boss is awesome.  and all at 1500 range giving you great survivability in any encounter.  direct dps isn't as good as it used to be, but a zerker glass cannon setup can also yield good results while still stacking the vulnerability since it is a minor trait.  by far the best underwater weapon in the game as well.

flamethrower - mid range semi-tank kit.  great at proccing sigil of blood and omnom pies, and with juggernaut you get a perma 7 stacks of might and +200 toughness.  I personally pair it with the elixir gun when I run it since I'm normally in closer and can use the skills on it for support as well and some synergy between elixir gun #4 and flamethrower #2.  mainly a power kit, but running knight's gear makes it a life stealing machine as I already mentioned.

elixir gun - pairs well with flamethrower as many traits effect both it and the flamethrower.  not great damage, but awesome support with condition removal and heals.  has a jump back that pairs well with flamethrower #2 skill, which needs around max flamethrower range to get its full damage, and it does damage when you use it.

bomb kit - admittedly I'm still slightly inexperienced with this kit, but a bomb healing build can make you a tanking machine with front line support.  has a blast finisher with big ol' bomb, and with skill #2's fire field make's it a decent might stacker.  personally I don't like being that close and prefer the 600 range buffer flamethrower gives me or the 1500 range on grenades, but it is by no means a bad kit and as others mentioned is great when leveling.

med kit - great if you're running runes of altruism as you can proc it on recharge for the might.  skill 5's fury buff is awesome as well.  I rarely use elixir h over it anymore unless I need extra condition removal from the trait cleansing formula 409.

Most of the QQ over the engy come from people that don't fully understand what you can do with the class, and only look at the fact that it isn't a faceroll easy class like the warrior.  and you aren't pigeon holed into kits either, running a rifle build with static discharge traited can yield good results for dps as well.  it takes some time to get used to, but it is imo the most fun class to play and allows enough variation in play that you really will never get bored with the class.

#14 Elysen

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:03 PM

So "jack of all trades, master of none" applies to an Engineer?

#15 matsif

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 05:33 AM

View PostXephenon, on 11 February 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

So "jack of all trades, master of none" applies to an Engineer?

definitely, although the gap isn't as far as the QQers would have many believe, the class is completely viable in just about any role.  

I would consider the class a master in condition builds though with grenade bleed build.  the only thing on the same level is the necro.

#16 Coren

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 06:04 AM

View PostXephenon, on 11 February 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

So "jack of all trades, master of none" applies to an Engineer?

I don't know if you played the ritualist in GW1, before ANet made him a spirit spammer (more so than before). Well the engineer is like that. You can basically do anything well but not as well as others, except conditions and AoE, there we excel in my opinion.

What makes the profession fun are.the kits and.gadgets too, they're whacky.

#17 Elysen

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 06:33 AM

View PostCoren, on 12 February 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

I don't know if you played the ritualist in GW1, before ANet made him a spirit spammer (more so than before).

Just for the record, no I didn't. I briefly played factions, but the game never clicked with me. Which makes it all the more unusual this game was on my radar since betas :)

#18 Little Bird

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 06:47 AM

I've never been unwelcome in a dungeon party and have never heard any disparaging remarks about Engineer. The kits aren't a gimmick  they're where your strength comes from. While other professions are static in their role during a dungeon run, an engineer can change his easily just by stepping out of combat and choosing different kits.

Admittedly I haven't gotten anything other than my engineer to level 80 so I don't exactly know how it compares to the other professions. I haven't been able to get anything else past level 35!

#19 Coren

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 07:03 AM

View PostXephenon, on 12 February 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:



Just for the record, no I didn't. I briefly played factions, but the game never clicked with me. Which makes it all the more unusual this game was on my radar since betas :)

Not unusual at all. GW and GW2 are very different gameplay wise, except for the skill based combat. Complexity wise GW will always be harder than GW2, but GW2 has many charms as well, otherwise I'd never play it :)

The engineer is one of the reasons I play gw2:)

Edit: if you ever want tips on engineers and builds, pm me, I'm on Gandara too.

Edited by Coren, 12 February 2013 - 07:05 AM.


#20 Solo Too

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:29 PM

View PostXephenon, on 11 February 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

So "jack of all trades, master of none" applies to an Engineer?

Yes and No!

The Engineer can be setup as a jack of all trades.  This is what I do.  I can do decent DPS with some condition spam, party support via condition removal and healing, all in one build.  This is one the strengths of the Engineer.  On the otherhand you can spec into DPS only, such as Grenade spam or go as a Tankcat for more tanking.  I think it all depends on your play style.

#21 Redfeather

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 07:13 PM

Kits can synergize with each other. I find bomb kit and tool kit work well together.
Both apply confusion which is nice if you want to do a confusion application burst.
Magnet pull is good for getting people into your Big Ol Bomb.
Box of Nails keeps people from getting to far if you are laying down bombs like bricks.
Smoke Bomb is nice cover if you want to safely troll for confusion procs.

#22 Ferrall Stark

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 10:27 PM

View PostCoren, on 11 February 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

Ok I'll go all out on this one :)

First of all, there's two types of kit engineers out there. There's the guys like me who believe that one kit defines your role and who believe that more than one kit spreads you too thin. Others believe that 2 or more give you the flexibility that's required.



I agree with Coren when he says this, and I believe that an Engineer is defined by one kit and not multiple. I think you should grab a kit and buff it as much as possible. Making yourself effective as possible.

http://en.gw2skills....TUAA2CoY2SgzgCA

That is the build I run in PvE Dungeons and WvW. It works very well but I'm sure could use revision.
My main point is pick a kit, and own it.




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