41 replies to this topic

[Alleji]

Little bit of context: for the past 8 years I've considered GW1's pre-Nightfall PvP to be the best PvP among MMOs, no contest. In particular I think GW1's Alliance Battles were the best casual hot-join no-commitment PvP on the market.

Now, I've spent a few evenings in the past two weeks playing Arathi Basin (the other AB) on a private WoW server with instant lvl 60 characters and basic blue gear. I'm having a blast.

I didn't plan on coming back here or posting anything until a thought struck me out of nowhere last night:

"This is basically GW. You get an instant max level character, you get all the gear*, and you insta-join battlegrounds with random players to play a game of control-five-points. Why is this so fun and GW2 isn't?"

I'm not going to go into a long explanation here because I don't have one. This is a genuine question. I'm sure flames are incoming, but I'm also sure there are a lot of people here who share my view on GW2's PvP: I really, really, really wanted to like it. It was the sequel to the best PvP game ever. It was going to be amazing. But then... it just sucked. Why? What's the key difference that makes it tick?

(If you're not familiar with WoW or Arathi Basin, it's basically GW2's PvP fighting for 5 control points instead of 3, with a larger map, and without any special conditions such as the trebuchet or guild lord)

*there is gear progression, but it's minimal. Difference between your starter gear and high-end pvp gear is not gamebreaking. Theoretically, people can show up in highest-tier raid epics and 2-shot everyone, but they're either non-existent or rare enough to not bother you. Obviously, this isn't acceptable for a competitive game, but I'm talking casual PvP here.

Edited by Alleji, 14 February 2013 - 01:17 PM.

[Serris]

i think it's the map design and movement in wow. you can jump from LM straight to BS using a slowfall.
also the increased number of players. AB is 15 vs 15 on a reasonably large map, which allows for more tactic play.

[Waar Kijk Je Naar]

Why it's not fun (imo):

1. Small teams (or rather the lack of a larger match such as 12vs12 or 16vs16)
2. Small maps (it's often possible to look across the whole map)
3. Matchmaking (game matches on Glory, instead of win/loss ratio (or a combination of both))
4. Balancing is broken (2vs4 or 3vs5 matches are common)
5. "Hot Join" puts me in empty servers
6. Lack of different game modes (bring back Fort Aspenwood (or an equivalent))
7. Can't use PvE gear in PvP

[Zhaitan]

GW 2  needs  to  bring  back  alliance  battles, FA, JQ type  arenas  fairly  quickly.

[MightyJoeMoon]

Alleji, on 14 February 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Little bit of context: for the past 8 years I've considered GW1's pre-Nightfall PvP to be the best PvP among MMOs, no contest. In particular I think GW1's Alliance Battles were the best casual hot-join no-commitment PvP on the market.

Now, I've spent a few evenings in the past two weeks playing Arathi Basin (the other AB) on a private WoW server with instant lvl 60 characters and basic blue gear. I'm having a blast.

I didn't plan on coming back here or posting anything until a thought struck me out of nowhere last night:

<otherstuff>

"This is basically GW. You get an instant max level character, you get all the gear*, and you insta-join battlegrounds with random players to play a game of control-five-points. Why is this so fun and GW2 isn't?"
I really, really, really wanted to like it. It was the sequel to the best PvP game ever. It was going to be amazing. But then... it just sucked.

Ok so we're going to compare a private server WoW, non-max level map, where people get access to the crappy blue gear but no one comes in and destroys them in purples to GW2 sPvP...ok I will bite i guess.  I will point out to you though you are leaving out the reasons why WoW hot join maps are a complete joke in comparison to GW2.

You are playing on a private server.  Well most people are paying 15 dollars a month for an old worn out system that is played for nostalgia. They have long time friends there. They don't want to learn a new game and deep down most people have a hard time with change.  If WoW was free then you might have a decent argument.  Is 15 dollars a month a ton of money? nope.  2 bucks isn't a ton of money either but I still wouldn't touch a McDonalds hamburger.  Hell even if it was free I wouldn't eat that crap.  Now if all of my friends are drunk and want to go in there I will choke down some fries and a hot fudge sunday to join in on the fun but thats a pretty big stretch and I would give them all shit for weeks for dragging me there.

In your scenario you have left out the suckiest, crappiest, complete joke of WoW PvP.  You grind for gearz to be competitive.  Not only that, you might have to grind PvE to be competitive in PvP.   In the picture you have painted this has been left out, but 99.99% of people don't play on level 60 private casual servers.  If you walk into a live, hot join map in WoW, in blues, you will get owned.  In a rated BG? 2 shot? Umm...you will drop if someone looks at you funny.

From the raw "fun factor" of map design AB is fine. If people actually know what they are doing, and the teams are even in terms of gear, it is really fun.  I personally prefer it 10 v 10.  15 v 15 gets a bit crowded and a couple of well geared tanks can hold up large groups of people in between nodes and can really unbalance the points quickly if people don't stay focused.  Spriests and Ele Shams are silly up at LM and its either funny if you have them on your team or mindnumbingly stupid if you are trying to get rid of them.

For me no map in WoW would ever be fun because the skirmishing is just so dull.  I tried to go back for some giggles with friends a while ago and I felt like I was going to fall asleep. This is from a 2300 RBG player so...not like I never loved me some WoW. But sorry, I love the dodge mechanic and I love downed state and no amount of tweeking to WoW game play is ever going to add that in.  I love being able to try new builds every 30 minutes with completely new gear sets.  I love the no cast bar aspecto of it.  I love not loading and updating 323543 add ons to be competitive. I love that skirmishing actually means something.  To me all of those things contribute to the fun.

Are there huge opportunities with GW2 as far as fun factor...absolutely.  GW2 is not perfect by any means but in comparison to WoW PvP I have a ton more fun due to the fact of all of the things you are leaving out.

Edited by MightyJoeMoon, 14 February 2013 - 02:05 PM.

[Alleji]

MightyJoeMoon, on 14 February 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

In your scenario you have left out the suckiest, crappiest, complete joke of WoW PvP.  You grind for gearz to be competitive.  Not only that, you might have to grind PvE to be competitive in PvP.   In the picture you have painted this has been left out, but 99.99% of people don't play on level 60 private casual servers.  If you walk into a live, hot join map in WoW, in blues, you will get owned.  In a rated BG? 2 shot? Umm...you will drop if someone looks at you funny.

I think you might be off by a couple percent on that number, but there's a reason I'm not comparing GW to live WoW. (Also live WoW being garbage since Cata, but hey... different topic).

Getting gear isn't part of the BG game. It's metagame as far as actual PvP is concerned. It's a chore that needs to be completed in order to play the game and as such it's irrelevant to the discussion of the game mechanics themselves. They can exist just fine without it, as instant-60 servers prove.

Now dodging and cast bars and all - valid points. I'd gladly try WoW with dodge if such a thing existed. I like having cast bars, though. I think GW2 really made a mistake making so many skills instant, useable on the move and getting rid of the interrupt mechanic. Makes the game more action-y, sure... but also removes a ton of depth.

Edited by Alleji, 14 February 2013 - 02:23 PM.

[MightyJoeMoon]

Alleji, on 14 February 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

I think you might be off by a couple percent on that number, but there's a reason I'm not comparing GW to live WoW. (Also live WoW being garbage since Cata, but hey... different topic).

Getting gear isn't part of the BG game. It's metagame as far as actual PvP is concerned. It's a chore that needs to be completed in order to play the game and as such it's irrelevant to the discussion of the game mechanics themselves. They can exist just fine without it, as instant-60 servers prove.

Now dodging and cast bars and all - valid points. I'd gladly try WoW with dodge if such a thing existed. I like having cast bars, though. I think GW2 really made a mistake making so many skills instant, useable on the move and getting rid of the interrupt mechanic. Makes the game more action-y, sure... but also removes a ton of depth.

I totally hear you man and I respect what you are saying but what you deem "irrelevant" is part of the fun factor for me.

Couple of things -Interuppting is a huge aspect of GW2 pvp.  You just don't have an add on that broadcasts it to you and there aren't skills where the interupt is the only thing that it does. This adds more depth...not takes away from it.  If you're not interupting...well...I don't know what to say...maybe I am misunderstanding you.  I guess you are maybe wanting the skill to be on full CD if it gets interupted?  Not a good idea for the GW 2 system and frankly one of the things that makes WoW more boring IMO.

I am also not anti-Blizz (though D3 still chaps my ass).  I will be lining up for Titan just like the other 10 million lemmings when it finally comes out.  Hopefully Blizzard is taking note and playing GW2 to see how much better the combat system is.  But to say that WoW has more depth because there are more buttons to push is really selling GW2 short.  Especially when you factor in combo fields and the versatility that each profession offers.

[Locuz]

Waar Kijk Je Naar, on 14 February 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

Why it's not fun (imo):

1. Small teams (or rather the lack of a larger match such as 12vs12 or 16vs16)
2. Small maps (it's often possible to look across the whole map)
3. Matchmaking (game matches on Glory, instead of win/loss ratio (or a combination of both))
4. Balancing is broken (2vs4 or 3vs5 matches are common)
5. "Hot Join" puts me in empty servers
6. Lack of different game modes (bring back Fort Aspenwood (or an equivalent))
7. Can't use PvE gear in PvP

Big teams make pvp zergy and non skillbased. That is exactly why RBGs in wow are not that popular. Its for a big part about outzerging and outpressuring the opponent. Even if you win it doesnt feel like you won since you played good. You just did more damage untill their healers couldnt keep up anymore.

Nasty side effect is that people become lazy. Multiseason glads who let healers freecast right next to them etc.

I would actually prefer if they downsized the RBGs in wow to 7-8 man teams. So bring it closer to what GW2 offers.

[Mastruq]

MightyJoeMoon, on 14 February 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

Ok so we're going to compare a private server WoW, non-max level map, where people get access to the crappy blue gear but no one comes in and destroys them in purples to GW2 sPvP...ok I will bite i guess.  I will point out to you though you are leaving out the reasons why WoW hot join maps are a complete joke in comparison to GW2.

You are playing on a private server.  Well most people are paying 15 dollars a month for an old worn out system that is played for nostalgia. They have long time friends there. They don't want to learn a new game and deep down most people have a hard time with change.  If WoW was free then you might have a decent argument.  Is 15 dollars a month a ton of money? nope.  2 bucks isn't a ton of money either but I still wouldn't touch a McDonalds hamburger.  Hell even if it was free I wouldn't eat that crap.  Now if all of my friends are drunk and want to go in there I will choke down some fries and a hot fudge sunday to join in on the fun but thats a pretty big stretch and I would give them all shit for weeks for dragging me there.

In your scenario you have left out the suckiest, crappiest, complete joke of WoW PvP.  You grind for gearz to be competitive.  Not only that, you might have to grind PvE to be competitive in PvP.   In the picture you have painted this has been left out, but 99.99% of people don't play on level 60 private casual servers.  If you walk into a live, hot join map in WoW, in blues, you will get owned.  In a rated BG? 2 shot? Umm...you will drop if someone looks at you funny.

From the raw "fun factor" of map design AB is fine. If people actually know what they are doing, and the teams are even in terms of gear, it is really fun.  I personally prefer it 10 v 10.  15 v 15 gets a bit crowded and a couple of well geared tanks can hold up large groups of people in between nodes and can really unbalance the points quickly if people don't stay focused.  Spriests and Ele Shams are silly up at LM and its either funny if you have them on your team or mindnumbingly stupid if you are trying to get rid of them.

For me no map in WoW would ever be fun because the skirmishing is just so dull.  I tried to go back for some giggles with friends a while ago and I felt like I was going to fall asleep. This is from a 2300 RBG player so...not like I never loved me some WoW. But sorry, I love the dodge mechanic and I love downed state and no amount of tweeking to WoW game play is ever going to add that in.  I love being able to try new builds every 30 minutes with completely new gear sets.  I love the no cast bar aspecto of it.  I love not loading and updating 323543 add ons to be competitive. I love that skirmishing actually means something.  To me all of those things contribute to the fun.

Are there huge opportunities with GW2 as far as fun factor...absolutely.  GW2 is not perfect by any means but in comparison to WoW PvP I have a ton more fun due to the fact of all of the things you are leaving out.

I think you missed the point there. The question isnt about the gear grind or anything because its not regular WoW, which you then go on and on about.

To put in my miniscule opinion, I didnt like WoW BG PvP for long but it was fun from time to time, and I didnt like Arena PvP there at all. Havent played WoW much in the last 6 years though. GW2 PvP as presented isnt much fun either for me. Reason unknown tbh because after trying it out for a bit I didnt bother with it anymore. Its not that I'm a pure PvE player though but somehow GW2 PvP, both Spvp and WvW, didnt click with me.

[Gileas898]

Maps are too small, teams are too small, but most of all, the game has no "flavor", like using Levitate to go BS from LM for example.

That's what makes WvW so fun, you can portal bomb with mesmers, veil with mesmers and ninja keeps with... mesmers. The only problem is that they put all that flavor on one profession. If warrior banners actually did some cool stuff, or if rangers could track enemy movements by looking at their tracks, or if thieves could "spy" on enemy towers etc and have their upgrades permanently shown when hovering over their pin on the map, or if engineers could repair siege, it would go a long way towards adding more flavor to the game.

How you would do this in sPvP I have no clue.

Edited by Gileas898, 14 February 2013 - 04:34 PM.

[Cube]

I don't play PvP in GW2. I hate it ^^ Actually, lol.

I feel rupting doesn't matter anymore(sure you can rupt but common, it's not like in GW where you have to wait for the monk/ele/nec/whatever to cast a specific skill because it matters a lot). There's no monks, which is my fav profession. Mesmers aren't mesmers, they are cloners, lol. I miss divertion and PI :I

I just don't enjoy the PvP, so I don't play it. The only thing I can enjoy is PvE, thought I have to take big breaks as I get extremely tired of PvE in the end

[lobotomies]

I think it's that there's no energy, or otherwise no penalty for misusing skills or incentive for maximizing order of skills. I go into any battle and because I have 5 skills with 1 weapon, I can switch to the other and use those 5, then by the time I switch back to the first the skills are reset. Those combined with the utility skills mean I'm just furiously using all of my skills and hoping that they all somehow come together and do something. I never have to second-guess using a skill, and I don't feel like PvP in my experience has challenged me, just made me confused and frustrated.

[Alleji]

Cube, on 14 February 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

I feel rupting doesn't matter anymore(sure you can rupt but common, it's not like in GW where you have to wait for the monk/ele/nec/whatever to cast a specific skill because it matters a lot). There's no monks, which is my fav profession. Mesmers aren't mesmers, they are cloners, lol. I miss divertion and PI :I

This x10.

Monks weren't my favourite profession and I was pretty bad at playing one, but I did appreciate how monks in GW with their variety of prot and utility skills were so much more interesting than any healers in other games that basically just push red bars.

Instead I loved mesmers... and yeah, it's a huge shame that GW2 as a system can't support mesmers (no energy, no cast bars, instant skills...)

[Cube]

Alleji, on 15 February 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

This x10.

Monks weren't my favourite profession and I was pretty bad at playing one, but I did appreciate how monks in GW with their variety of prot and utility skills were so much more interesting than any healers in other games that basically just push red bars.

Instead I loved mesmers... and yeah, it's a huge shame that GW2 as a system can't support mesmers (no energy, no cast bars, instant skills...)

Definitly, I had 3 monks and it's my fav profession, I just madly loved them! They where so interesting, and because of the fact that people had energy and not 10k hp, it really mattered how you played and how well you could manage your energy.

Me QQing a bit off topic:

Spoiler

However, now I feel everything is about numbers and I really miss just... Everything lol. And now I'm never gonna get that epic satisfaction from rupting WoH on that crucial moment and do an evil laughter while I enjoly the fact that I just fked it up for that monk and it's now dead. Or saving my bf from dying while he's frenzying around with some awesome patient with WoH! Or... or... I could go all day u.u GW had so much potential and it was a game that IMO could be made even greater, despite the fact that it was old. Actually, that doesn't even matter. Because the PvP was so superior to any other MMO I have ever played, all the people I knew stayed BECAUSE of the PvP, and skill system/classes, etc. When AB died a lot of those people went to either FA or quit, and now sadly I see all of those amazing PvP players just leave after tryingt GW2 as well Q_Q.

But maybe in the future, something will change. I just wish they didn't kill off everything that made Guild Wars epic. I like the PvE in GW2, tho I wish it was bigger teams and had monks and the skillsystem from Guild Wars, so for now I will just play the PvE and see how GW2 will turn out PvP wise

[Infuse]

Things in GW 1 that was better than GW2 : classes and mechanics :
- In pvp you could battle for 20 minutes and still be on equal foots while having so much fun ! (you can't do so on gw2 while having fun)
- There were spikes, infuses, pre prots and so much monk mechanics
- The interruptions !
- The choice of skills (I feel like they went lazy on these and they justified the fact that it's complicated to balance)
- So entertaining to watch !
- A real feeling of choices taken thanks to the cool downs and the mana bar, and the fact that you could get slapped with an interrupt or a diversion.
- EVERY skills had a great impact, had a real purpose and some of them had really deep twists in it (F-e the pact of rez of the ritualist, spiritual bond for the monk)
- A real feeling of classes, they were different and one could not play the other, we liked that.
Monk would support
rangers would interrupt and put conditions
mesmer would annoy peoples while with a evil laugh
warriors were potential atomic bombs that your team would have to support and the other team would try to negate (once free to act these were a real war machine)
ele could fit 2 roles support with nuke power or support with conditions
etc,,,
- A team synergy, everyone was dependant of the others in pvp. You could feel it when someone wasn't doing his job.
- Very nicely chosen ratio of hp and mana wich allowed spikes, prevented skills spams (unless you had a build for it), and gave a momentum to the game
- Easy to understand how your oppenent worked
- Skill incantation bars
- Click to move
- Overall view of the game while in action or while spectating understandable
- Casting a skills required to stay in place; which warrior could overcome and that was one of the traits that would make you skilled.
- The absence of the Z axe made the maps very linear, wich fitted really well with the game play
- Better maps, better map mechanics, better number of player balancement.
- Zergs (as seen like a massive stomp-train) were rare, unless there was a real difference in skills or handicap
- More casual friendly (yes yes!)

GW2 is a non-casual-friendly, messed-up-gameplay game...

Edited by Infuse, 15 February 2013 - 08:10 PM.

[Cutthroat]

I like GW1's AB more than CoD fanboys like domination :3 Fortunately there are weekend events.

Double Luxon and Kurzick title points — 22 February 2013 = AB <3

Double faction in competitive missions — 1 March 2013 = FA

[TGIFrisbie]

Look...the bottom line on GW2 is everything is mediocre.  Every environment is a slog unless you are zerging/exploiting/glitching.  All the "fun" peeps talk about are centered around zerging/exploiting/glitching.  The skills are SO mediocre you have to stack the mediocrity to do jack crap.  The only time a skill stands out is when it's less mediocre than the skill you are comparing it too.

The environments in GW2 are precisely the same.  The encounters are the same.  The boss fights use cheap/cheesy mechanics to 1hit you so you can enjoy the downed-state skills Anet worked SO hard for you to enjoy that they can NOT let you get out of enjoying them.

There is nothing that can save this game at this point.  You either embrace the crap it is (like all of you who praise it and will respond to me with your crap rejections and worship at your anet fanboi shrines) or you move on to other games.  I left WoW over a year ago, fed up with the company Acti-Blizz more than the game itself.  I have gone back and playing F2P for twink PvP.  It's already far more fun than Gear Wars 2.

2 years from now the devs will admit the mistakes, as I have said so many times since launch.  It's the same self-depricating blind mode they enabled with their Nightfall mentality of "dying is part of the game experience" where you were expected to die repeatedly in order to progress through their over-infested mass swarm patrolled maps.

Just dropped in while waiting out a BG queue, toodles.

[Impmon]

Alleji, on 14 February 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

"This is basically GW. You get an instant max level character, you get all the gear*, and you insta-join battlegrounds with random players to play a game of control-five-points. Why is this so fun and GW2 isn't?"

1.  In WOW when you killed someone they were dead.  You didn't have to waste more time trying to kill them after downing.
2.  The graphics engine in WOW actually worked.
3.  You earned honour points that could be used to buy gear unique to that battleground that was pretty good for your level.
4.  You used to be able to earn a rank & corresponding armor

[Phigment]

I would say the best PVP game was DAOC...period, I've played just about any that has come out to compete since I started playing mmorpg's back in 01, but nothing compared to daoc when @ prime (even when not). It had the large zones which allowed for small game play, spots that would attract players near them, and characters had group synergy. GW2 wanted to get rid of that synergy, but what they created was a monster. This is something that WOW could never accomplish either...SYNERGY in groups with other characters, but thats because WOW was simply put a PvE game (think everquest), that added PvP into it. Remember when WOW came out, no /bgs, no honor system...They had dueling and on pvp servers you had constested zones that allowed you to attack other players...No reward, no point (but it was some of the best pvp WOW had once you get out of the zones that idiots would camp in large zergs)...

I love small scale fights. In daoc it was 8vs8, or solo (2 lone enforcer titles). In this game it does nothing but encourage zerging, the /bgs are confined to a small zone, 8vs8 setup...and you add similar reward system to zerging? Lets forget the points mean nothing, I have never spent any of them, I do want/need different armor skins....I can end a match under 100 points and think it was a great /bg if I end up with 1 or 2 good solo fights (since I do not attack the mob for 25 points, I dont bother doing any AoE and I really dont attack nodes unless someone is defending it....But someone that roams in a zerg, spams what ever Aoe they have...in this system is rewarded more. Who cares solo they typically run everytime you find them, its just that...The system is borked, and it rewards the mindless to continue to play mindless...If I wanted this system, I would've stayed in WOW for /BG's. I hated the constant new seasons when I had to visit /bgs to farm honor to get my gear..it was the reason I left the game

Edited by Phigment, 16 February 2013 - 11:22 PM.

[Larsen]

WoW has game mechanics that are satisfying to play with. The combat feels crisp and responsive while GW2 is the exact opposite: weak and sluggish. This makes a world of difference for PvP enjoyability. GW2 just hasn't got that visceral, satisfying combat experience.

[Condiments7]

Hah.

Keep in mind WoW barely had a coherent PvP system until the release of its expansion, which had before had preyed on no-lifers to grind endlessly for a useless title so they can one-shot under-geared noobs who wouldn't relinquish themselves to the soul devouring descent to hades known as vanilla WoW endgame.

Even afterwards the game has struggled through its years maintaining a balance between catering to their PvE players and throwing PvP players only enough bones so that it wouldn't piss them off obtaining "welfare" epics. A game that artificially locks gear that would level the playing field between players because it wants the players "to work for their gear like the PvE  players" means that PvP to them wasn't even a side-dish, it was the scraps brushed off to the table to sate the begging dog to thank him for his loyalty.

While this sounds terribly scathing, I really did have fun with WoW in PvP after getting burned out raiding in vanilla through the expansions. Unfortunately, it was a continuous unbalanced mess that no forced "PvP stats" like resilience, radical balance shifts, etc. could ever save in a competitive context.

The only worthwhile PvP the MMO genre has ever been able to turn out has been in large scale conflicts where balance isn't a huge issue nor individual skill, just grand coordination mixed in with some tactics. The closest PvP system that came to being good was in the pseudo-MMO GW1, which was fun but at the same time not very watchable if you want to push it in terms of E-sport. GW2 had the potential for both watch-ability, and good balance but there hasn't been any support so far. Most of the current systems are terrible like hotjoin, but tournament PvP is fun. Unfortunately new players will get smashed there before they learn the game which prevents it from growing.

[Alleji]

Cutthroat, on 15 February 2013 - 10:44 PM, said:

I like GW1's AB more than CoD fanboys like domination :3 Fortunately there are weekend events.

Double Luxon and Kurzick title points — 22 February 2013 = AB <3

Double faction in competitive missions — 1 March 2013 = FA

Will people actually play during those weekends? Like... every time I logged into GW1 during the past ~3 years, I've found the AB zones empty. Completely empty. As in, not a single person other than myself in the outpost.

But if people still play during the bonus weekends, i'll totally be there!

Quote

1. In WOW when you killed someone they were dead. You didn't have to waste more time trying to kill them after downing.

Yeah, I hate the downed state too. It's cool for group PvE, but just annoying in PvP and shouldn't have been included at all IMO.

[Gilles VI]

Alleji, on 20 February 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

Will people actually play during those weekends? Like... every time I logged into GW1 during the past ~3 years, I've found the AB zones empty. Completely empty. As in, not a single person other than myself in the outpost.

But if people still play during the bonus weekends, i'll totally be there!

Since the introduction of imperial faction AB is pretty full at peak hours.

[JaxSilven]

Gilles VI, on 20 February 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

Since the introduction of imperial faction AB is pretty full at peak hours.

With awful players, it's no fun.

[Gilles VI]

JaxSilven, on 21 February 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

With awful players, it's no fun.

AB always was the PvP for awfull players who couldn't handle running a real build or surviving some pressure..

[JaxSilven]

Gilles VI, on 21 February 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

AB always was the PvP for awfull players who couldn't handle running a real build or surviving some pressure..

liiiiike ICE

[Gilles VI]

JaxSilven, on 21 February 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

liiiiike ICE

Yeah I get that remark alot, but I'm not in that ICE, hell my ICE guild isn't even a PvP guild.
I played GvG in 8x8 and ZOO.

Edited by Gilles VI, 21 February 2013 - 05:26 PM.

[JaxSilven]

Gilles VI, on 21 February 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

Yeah I get that remark alot, but I'm not in that ICE, hell my ICE guild isn't even a PvP guild.
I played GvG in 8x8 and ZOO.

Fair enough, all GvG was 8v8.

[Gilles VI]

JaxSilven, on 21 February 2013 - 08:17 PM, said:

Fair enough, all GvG was 8v8.

No, I played GvG in 8x8, a korean guild.

[JaxSilven]

Gilles VI, on 21 February 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

No, I played GvG in 8x8, a korean guild.

Never heard of either.