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Dual Axe build similar to Sonic Boon?


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#1 Talenthar

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:44 PM

Is there a way to do one?

As you may have seen in my other post I'm bored of GS and am looking for something more mobile. I am thinking dual axe as I ran it at lower levels and had a lot of fun with it.

That being said I have been running GS and Sonic Boon since 60 (now 72) and have done well with it.

Today at 71 I fell in with a group running from event to event all which were level 75+ and most of the people were higher levels than me. I almost never dropped below half health while I watched people of higher levels drop like flies.

I'm still learning which skills/traits work with each other and I don't feel confident in my ability to make a build of my own. Also working to figure out what gear stats work with specific builds.

TLDR: Looking for a Dual Axe build with the damage and survivability of Sonic Boon.Solo PVE with events.

Any help/advice would be appreciated.

#2 Lucav

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 05:54 AM

Sonic boon is fairly reliant on a might stacking mechanism, which axes lack.

#3 Minion

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:33 AM

Dual axes are very easy to survive actually, the best steps to take are:
1.full berserker/ruby/eagle/accuracy
2. kill all the enemies
3.????
4.profit

#4 Talenthar

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 07:12 AM

View PostLucav, on 15 February 2013 - 05:54 AM, said:

Sonic boon is fairly reliant on a might stacking mechanism, which axes lack.

I understand that. I was wondering if there was a dual axe build that had similar DPS and survivability.

#5 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:56 AM

20/10/0/10/30 with Berserker's Power and Dual Axe Mastery in Strength, Rending Strikes in Arms, Inspiring Banners in Tactics, Heightened Focus + Sharpened Axes + Quick Bursts in Discipline.

That build I just suggested outdamages Sonic Boon by a longshot, since SB wastes 30 into Tactics. If you use the Omnomberry Pie food (66% chance to Lifesteal 325 Health on a crit), you hit so frequently and have such a high crit chance that your survivability is absolutely amazing.

Also, spam Eviscerate.

#6 Talenthar

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 09:28 AM

That sounds like a good build Sithicus.

This is probably a stupid question but I'll ask anyway...what utility skills and gear stats am I looking for?

I'm guessing Banner of Discipline will be in there.Other than that just the standard.. For Great Justice, Shake it Off or On My Mark ,Sig of Rage?

Also I'll assume precision is the main stat I need so maybe Knight's gear?

Sorry for my ignorance...still learning the class even at this high of a level. I'm a slow leaner which is why I ask a lot of questions.

#7 Glexarn

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:08 AM

Quote

I'm guessing Banner of Discipline will be in there.Other than that just the standard.. For Great Justice, Shake it Off or On My Mark ,Sig of Rage?
FGJ/SIO are standard fare; FGJ is the highest DPS boost utility we have, and SIO is just generically good, efficient defensive utility.

OMM is basically a shout build thing. It doesn't provide enough on its own to really be worth it without traits.

SoR generally, Battle Standard (Warbanner) if your team needs it (incredibly helpful on a handful of fights where multiple people can get murdered by one mistake, for example Lupicus).

Quote

Also I'll assume precision is the main stat I need so maybe Knight's gear?
Berserker for more damage, Knight's for more survivability.

I'd recommend starting full Knight's, then transitioning into full Berserker as you get more comfortable.

#8 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:45 AM

View PostTalenthar, on 15 February 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

That sounds like a good build Sithicus.

This is probably a stupid question but I'll ask anyway...what utility skills and gear stats am I looking for?

I'm guessing Banner of Discipline will be in there.Other than that just the standard.. For Great Justice, Shake it Off or On My Mark ,Sig of Rage?

Also I'll assume precision is the main stat I need so maybe Knight's gear?

Sorry for my ignorance...still learning the class even at this high of a level. I'm a slow leaner which is why I ask a lot of questions.

Nothing is a stupid question here :)

And you're spot on, as Glexarn says, FGJ, SIO Disc Banner and SoR (most of the time). Glexarn has the same opinion as I do on armour as well, Knight's is a great set, you get so much Toughness, but you also get Power and Precision. You can get creative with transitioning in some Crit Damage as you become more confident (start with Accessories though).

Here's the thing about Crit Damage, since it is awarded in small Percentages (i.e. 3% on Boots) it isn't necessarily in line with other stats, i.e. you cannot accurately compare between Knights Boots and Berserker Boots, since comparably a Minor stat on the Knights Boots is worth more than the Crit Damage you gain on the Zerker Boots. However if you look at your accessories, the Exquisite Ruby Orb you can put in your jewellery has 3% Crit damage, which is the same as BOOTS. You can see how disproportionately high that is, you get 3% just for a simple socket, and in relation to the other stats on the Orb, the 3% is comparitively more.

What i'm trying to say basically is you want to transition yourself roughly in this order: Substitute Exq Ruby Orbs into your Accessories -> Switch to Berserker Accessories -> Gradually switch out best proportional Crit Damage pieces of Armour.

I had a chart somewhere which had all armour pieces listed along with accessories, and which ones provide a better ratio of Crit Damage for the piece. Among the highest efficiency were the Accessory slots, and the worst were Weapons. So make sure you swap your accessories before your weapons or you will be losing out! :) Depending on how you get on you might just want to keep Knight's Armour/Weapons and just use Berserker Accessories. Running full berserker is quite tricky.

Edited by Sithicus Dias, 15 February 2013 - 10:47 AM.


#9 Talenthar

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 05:41 PM

Thanks Glexarn and Sithicus. Very helpful.

#10 Thorfinnr

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:00 PM

View PostSithicus Dias, on 15 February 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Nothing is a stupid question here :)

And you're spot on, as Glexarn says, FGJ, SIO Disc Banner and SoR (most of the time). Glexarn has the same opinion as I do on armour as well, Knight's is a great set, you get so much Toughness, but you also get Power and Precision. You can get creative with transitioning in some Crit Damage as you become more confident (start with Accessories though).

Here's the thing about Crit Damage, since it is awarded in small Percentages (i.e. 3% on Boots) it isn't necessarily in line with other stats, i.e. you cannot accurately compare between Knights Boots and Berserker Boots, since comparably a Minor stat on the Knights Boots is worth more than the Crit Damage you gain on the Zerker Boots. However if you look at your accessories, the Exquisite Ruby Orb you can put in your jewellery has 3% Crit damage, which is the same as BOOTS. You can see how disproportionately high that is, you get 3% just for a simple socket, and in relation to the other stats on the Orb, the 3% is comparitively more.

What i'm trying to say basically is you want to transition yourself roughly in this order: Substitute Exq Ruby Orbs into your Accessories -> Switch to Berserker Accessories -> Gradually switch out best proportional Crit Damage pieces of Armour.

I had a chart somewhere which had all armour pieces listed along with accessories, and which ones provide a better ratio of Crit Damage for the piece. Among the highest efficiency were the Accessory slots, and the worst were Weapons. So make sure you swap your accessories before your weapons or you will be losing out! :) Depending on how you get on you might just want to keep Knight's Armour/Weapons and just use Berserker Accessories. Running full berserker is quite tricky.

I'm gonna make a suggesiton, and Sith, please correct me if the math would be off...but I think this synergizes pretty well.

I would go this route for armor:

Helmet -> Knight's
Shoulder's -> Beserker
Chest -> Knight's
Gloves -> Beserker
Legs -> Knight's
Boots -> Beserker

I also concur on Utility: FJG, SIO...swap Banner of DIsc, Balanced Stance, Etc based on need...Elite: SoR or Battle Standard, again based on what would be best in a given situation.

I'm very interested in this idea...be a nice change from GS...I enjoy running Sonic Boon...but this would be awesome for a little change of pace now and then...I'm gonna throw an example build in a calc and post it, and then see what tweaks we can all suggest. :)

#11 Ninja Battle Lion

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:01 PM

View PostSithicus Dias, on 15 February 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

20/10/0/10/30 with Berserker's Power and Dual Axe Mastery in Strength, Rending Strikes in Arms, Inspiring Banners in Tactics, Heightened Focus + Sharpened Axes + Quick Bursts in Discipline.

Alright! I wonder if I can ask you this question Sith: if one were to take both Disc V and VI, which would be better suited for adrenaline management: IX or XII?

#12 Strife025

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:13 PM

You can basically look at my Axe/Mace build which already covers everything in this thread, including the breakdown of all gear and how the stat point loss relates to 1% crit damage to min-max your stats if you aren't running full berserker.

Edited by Strife025, 15 February 2013 - 06:14 PM.


#13 Thorfinnr

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:21 PM

Here it is...

http://gw2buildcraft....a5.0.a5.u59b|e

Now, this does not show any Utility Skills or anything...straight Weap/Gear/Trinket/Traits

Only thing I used verbatim was the Trait point layout suggested by SIthicus, and I laid out the armor in a mix of Knight and Zerker.. Rune I put in is open and just one I grabbed...no rhyme or reason.I just just whipped  this up, and it will be able to be improved. It just gives us a place to start.

Looking forward to seeing how this develops. :)

Edited by Thorfinnr, 15 February 2013 - 07:55 PM.


#14 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 07:11 PM

View PostNinja Battle Lion, on 15 February 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

Alright! I wonder if I can ask you this question Sith: if one were to take both Disc V and VI, which would be better suited for adrenaline management: IX or XII?

Good question, I prefer IX myself. In my experience I've found with auto-attacking my adrenaline fills up again pretty much exactly as Eviscerate comes off cooldown (and this is using XI, Quick Bursts for a 2 second reduction on Evisc), give or take a fraction of a second. Although hitting multiple enemies and/or using things like Whirling Axe fill your Adrenaline faster anyway. In a nutshell you get to use Eviscerate more often with the cooldown reduction, so XII doesn't seem worth the slot if you all the way to Grandmaster. :)

#15 Thorfinnr

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 07:20 PM

Made a slight change to Strength Trait Line...changed Dual Wield to Axe Mastery...this took Crit Damage up to 101%. Mis-interpreted what SIth listed in Traits above.

More gooder. :)

http://gw2buildcraft....a5.0.a5.u59b|e

Edited by Thorfinnr, 15 February 2013 - 08:17 PM.


#16 Strife025

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 07:42 PM

Couple points.

Dual Wield is better then Axe Mastery on high crit % builds (i.e. dps builds) because the 5% base damage translates into more damage then 10% crit damage.

Also the reason you take XII is to hit the heightened focus and berserker power traits more quickly. After an Eviscerate with a 20-10-0-10-30 build you are back up to 15/30 adrenaline immediatly if your run a Axe/Mace + Axe/Axe build since you constantly swap weapons every 5 seconds.

You are also using two traits for a single target attack which really doesn't do much more damage then using Signet Mastery + XII, but hurts you for probably half of the encounters in dungeons which aren't single target because you don't use Eviscerate in them.

Taking 2 traits specifically for adrenaline imho is too much of a waste compared to the loss of might duration from signet mastery and berserker/h. focus traits since it only takes ~5 seconds to hit 30 adrenaline using XII anyways.

Edited by Strife025, 15 February 2013 - 09:23 PM.


#17 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 07:52 PM

View PostStrife025, on 15 February 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

Dual Wield is better then Axe Mastery on high crit % builds (i.e. dps builds) because the 5% base damage translates into more damage then 10% crit damage.

Good to know, thanks, I hadn't thought to check that properly.

#18 Thorfinnr

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:12 PM

View PostStrife025, on 15 February 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

Couple points.

Dual Wield is better then Axe Mastery on high crit % builds (i.e. dps builds) because the 5% base damage translates into more damage then 10% crit damage.

Also the reason you take XII is to hit the heightened focus and berserker power traits more quickly. After an Eviscerate with a 20-10-0-10-30 build you are back up to 15/30 adrenaline immediatly if your run a Axe/Mace + Axe/Axe build since you constantly swap weapons every 10 seconds.

You are also using two traits for a single target attack which really doesn't do much more damage then using Signet Mastery + XII, but hurts you for probably half of the encounters in dungeons which aren't single target because you don't use Eviscerate in them.

Take 2 traits of adrenaline instead is too much of a waste compared to the loss of might and adrenaline traits since it only takes ~5 seconds to hit 30 adrenaline using XII anyways.

Just a note, I really like Strife's build thread, and recommend it as Axe/Mace can be a lot of fun.

OK...adjusted I adjusted the Strength line the way Strife suggested...but I did leave Quick Bursts in Disc line...simply because in playing a warrior...I recharge adrenaline really fast anyway...and I use Healing Surge for my heal, which is an instant Adrenaline recharge if I need it, so shortening the CD on the Burst skill seems more practical. (Again, that's just my play experience, YMMV.) The change Strife suggested is a good idea if you DON'T use Healing Surge and go with Healing Signet.

http://gw2buildcraft....a5.0.a5.u59b|e

Link was not updating...fixed.

Edited by Thorfinnr, 15 February 2013 - 08:18 PM.


#19 Talenthar

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 09:57 PM

I'm currently playing with the build Sith made changing to Dual Weilding instead of Axe Mastery as suggested. I'm not level 80 yet so I don't have access to the full build or gear yet but it's going well.

I feel a lot more squishy than I was but the mobility and damage are much better than what I had with Sonic Boon.

Not to take anything away from Sonic Boon cause it's a great build. I was just bored with GS.

Edited by Talenthar, 15 February 2013 - 10:05 PM.


#20 Brand

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:04 AM

I would like to point out, Talenthar, that by running a build like this you are increasing your mobility and survivability, but decreasing that of your teammates. Also, if Omnoberry Pies/Ghosts get their long over due nerf, this build will not be anywhere near as survivable as it is. It might even be *gasp* balanced :P

Edited by Brand, 16 February 2013 - 09:04 AM.


#21 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:28 AM

You big up a little bit of team support like it's the end of the world but trust me you can live without some team support in Dungeons. It's only deep Vigorous Shouts builds that really provide massive support. The rest isn't as critical as you make it out to be Brand.

Talenthar, your teammates will be fine, just cut things.

#22 Talenthar

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 05:58 PM

View PostBrand, on 16 February 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

I would like to point out, Talenthar, that by running a build like this you are increasing your mobility and survivability, but decreasing that of your teammates. Also, if Omnoberry Pies/Ghosts get their long over due nerf, this build will not be anywhere near as survivable as it is. It might even be *gasp* balanced :P

So far I haven't run any dungeons. I'm usually not playing full time when I'm playing if that makes sense. I'm pretty casual and I have to AFK a lot as I play so losing the ability to help others isn't a deal breaker for me. I'm mainly solo but I will jump into group events as I find them and jump in with roaming groups doing events as I can leave them when I need to.Also as I'm not 80 yet I'm not able to use the Omnomberry foods so I guess this build is balanced for me atm.

Also I had said with this build I have more mobility and damage but I feel pretty squishy compared to running the Sonic Boon build. I'm sure I'll go back to it at some point if i get bored with dual axe. I get bored fast playing with just one playstyle.

View PostSithicus Dias, on 16 February 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

You big up a little bit of team support like it's the end of the world but trust me you can live without some team support in Dungeons. It's only deep Vigorous Shouts builds that really provide massive support. The rest isn't as critical as you make it out to be Brand.

Talenthar, your teammates will be fine, just cut things.

Sithicus,thanks for being so supportive and helpful to a new (ish) warrior and someone who wants to try something a little different from time to time.

Edited by Talenthar, 16 February 2013 - 06:40 PM.


#23 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 06:17 PM

View PostTalenthar, on 16 February 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

Sithicus,thanks for being so supportive and helpful to a new (ish) warrior and someone who wants to try something a little different from time to time.

No worries, feel free to whisper me in game if you want to chat about stuff :)

#24 Ninja Battle Lion

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:14 AM

View PostStrife025, on 15 February 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

Also the reason you take XII is to hit the heightened focus and berserker power traits more quickly. After an Eviscerate with a 20-10-0-10-30 build you are back up to 15/30 adrenaline immediatly if your run a Axe/Mace + Axe/Axe build since you constantly swap weapons every 5 seconds.
It feels like I'm back on max adren faster with IX than with XII.

#25 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:47 AM

No, it's definitely faster with XII, are you weapon swapping every 5 seconds? You get a good chunk of Adrenaline for doing that.

#26 Talenthar

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:02 PM

I hit 80 and am finding I feel MUCH less squishy now that I am able to use Omnomberry Pie. I just wish it wasn't so expensive.

I am having fun with the dual axes even more since I hit 80 and get to use the full build as well.

#27 Ninja Battle Lion

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:43 PM

View PostSithicus Dias, on 18 February 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

No, it's definitely faster with XII, are you weapon swapping every 5 seconds? You get a good chunk of Adrenaline for doing that.
Nope, I'm not. But that's because I'm Axe/Axe/Horn instead of Axe/Axe/Mace - I'm missing out on Strength VIII whenever I'm on Horn. This isn't much of an issue during the first rotation, because activating Horn 4 and 5 takes some time, but the second rotation feels awkward because those are on CD. I'll have to look deeper into this.

Edited by Ninja Battle Lion, 19 February 2013 - 12:13 AM.


#28 cold2

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 12:39 AM

View PostTalenthar, on 18 February 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

I hit 80 and am finding I feel MUCH less squishy now that I am able to use Omnomberry Pie. I just wish it wasn't so expensive.

I am having fun with the dual axes even more since I hit 80 and get to use the full build as well.
Try out Mixed Berry Pies or Blackberry Pies for a cheap alternative.

View PostNinja Battle Lion, on 18 February 2013 - 10:43 PM, said:

Nope, I'm not. But that's because I'm Axe/Axe/Horn instead of Axe/Axe/Mace - I'm missing out on Strength VIII whenever I'm on Horn. This isn't much of an issue during the first rotation, because activating Horn 4 and 5 takes some time, but the second rotation feels awkward because those are on CD. I'll have to look deeper into this.
Just out of curiosity, why horn instead of mace?

Edited by cold2, 19 February 2013 - 03:35 PM.


#29 Talenthar

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 04:22 AM

View Postcold2, on 19 February 2013 - 12:39 AM, said:

Try out Mixed Berry Pies of Blackberry Pies for a cheap alternative.

Thanks for the info.

#30 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 08:47 AM

View PostNinja Battle Lion, on 18 February 2013 - 10:43 PM, said:

Nope, I'm not. But that's because I'm Axe/Axe/Horn instead of Axe/Axe/Mace - I'm missing out on Strength VIII whenever I'm on Horn. This isn't much of an issue during the first rotation, because activating Horn 4 and 5 takes some time, but the second rotation feels awkward because those are on CD. I'll have to look deeper into this.

Ah I see, in that case Sharpened Axes may well be faster for you then. I found using SA that in the 8 second cooldown of Eviscerate (with Quick Bursts) my Adrenaline was always just about full when it came off cooldown, and that was auto-attacking a single enemy, so if there are two, or if you use other things like #5, you should keep your adrenaline pretty high,




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