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What would you change/add to Zhaitan's battle?


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#1 Red Intensity

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 02:13 AM

I (and many others) thought this particular boss battle was lacking something, like for example: a battle. Hop on ship, kill some trash and wait for mahlazor to fire, then pelt dragon with fireballs until dead. I've seen some crappy final battles, but this tops my personal chart in "worst boss battles". What would I add if money/time/permission/code weren't issues? A battle with phases:

1. Standard trash fight on ship.

2. Laser hits dragon and we pelt it with fireballs.

3. Zhaitan hops from tower to ship's deck; Destiny's Children Edge come up on deck with barrels filled with laser rifles/rocket launchers/flamethrowers. Pact forces join in with said weaponry and we're killing trash + fighting Zhaitan. After enough health has dropped, Zhaitan's weight causes the ship to split in two and fall from the sky.

4. After the crash, Zojja informs the PC that her buddies are unconscious but so is Zhaitan for the moment. She has her golem search through the wreckage to find something useful (this part's the intermission to the quest) and during the intermission, her golem finds 5 battlesuits (if one remembers this quest) and Zojja orders the golem to charge them and once fully charged, the PC's enter them, which ends the intermission.

5. Zhaitan wakes up as the PC's burst out of the wreckage, lasers blazing. Halfway through the fight, Zojja tells the PC that her crew have woken up, but Eir and Caithe are too badly injured to help themselves. Once Zhaitan's health drops to 20%, Zojja informs the PC that she's found and activated an emergency evac beacon within the wreckage. Zhaitan throws up a temporary barrier that makes it invincible and now sends waves of trash mobs with a champion or two in the mix, and the PC's are defending the ship from the trash. Once the evac chopper arrives, PC's escort Destiny's Edge to the chopper while holding back the trash mobs.

6. The chopper leaves, and the beacon is destroyed. Zhaitan lowers barrier and fight continues. Halfway through the fight (again), the battlesuits run out of juice, forcing the PC's to get out. Zojja informs PC via radio that the battlesuits have auxiliary power supplies that have just enough juice to act as beacons for artillery, and recommends the PC's to lure Zhaitan to each of the beacons. The artillery attacks make Zhaitan sluggish until enough of them knock it out. An evac chopper piloted by Trahearne (how he learned to fly, we'll never know) arrives and we hop on, and as we're leaving, orders any megalaser-equipped airships to blast it to hell. As the chopper flies away, lasers begin firing and nuking Zhaitan. (the blasts are so blinding we end in a fade to white).

Looking at my idea, no wonder all we see are points 1 and 2. Anyway, what would you guys change/add to the battle if you could?

#2 Waar Kijk Je Naar

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:10 AM

Wrote this a couple of months ago. I think it's still relevant:

View PostWaar Kijk Je Naar, on 06 September 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

I'm not opposed to fighting him with cannons and a 5-man party but right now the fight is boring. It should be an epic-boss fight.

Right now it's like:
  • Shoot down lieutenant dragons while killing smaller monsters.
  • Watch cutscene.
  • Kill small monsters, possibly a veteran or 2.
  • Watch cutscene.
  • Press F to mount a cannon, press your 2nd skill till he falls down.
It's easy and there's just not enough action for this type of combat. I don't know if the game is limited by the engine at this point, but why can't I aim/shoot at the lieutenants when they fly around? Why is Zhaitan stationary at the end? It's like he wants to be killed.

What it should be like:
  • Dragon lieutenants assault the ship and will break it down piece by piece. Npc's fight the small adds, players focus on the dragons and possibly some larger monsters. Shoot down the dragons with skill shots, NOT just when they stop flying and want you to shoot them. If dragons are not killed in time, ship crashes down and players have to take an alternative path.
  • Cutscene.
  • Zhaitan appears, after a short fight his wing gets roasted by the big cannon (forgot its name).
  • Cutscene. Players or npc's (depending on what happened in part 1) crash down a ship on him.
  • Players finish him off or some other epic stuff.
Ofcourse this is just an example. I am neither a game-designer nor a storywriter.


#3 scaur

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:51 AM

nothing to add, i will want to make the dungeon shorter

#4 Darkobra

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:52 AM

This actually tops how terrible the final boss of Final Fantasy 10 was.

#5 Sandpit

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:33 PM

More Zhaitan and less dungeon getting to him. Less garbage to wade through, except maybe some stuff he summons directly in the battle.

But most important, personal story not team of 5, I was gob-smacked to find the last event was just a "go do that standard dungeon". You play the whole personal story on your own then they dump that on you at the end!

#6 matsif

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:49 PM

it just needs an extra few phases after you start shooting him with fireballs.

phase 1: laser hits him, party shoots him with the cannons.  goes until about 75% hp, then a cutscene plays of zhaitan flying in close and swiping the laser, damaging it.

phase 2:   semi-inspired from FFX airship fights of evrae and sin.  zhaitan moves between being in close (so full party can hit him with regular attacks) and moving away so only ranged can hit him.  while zhaitan is at range, he launches risen from his wings in pods similar to tequatl, so melee has to kill the mobs while ranged hit zhaitan.  This goes until about 40% hp, with zhaitan switching ranges every 7% hp, making 5 total switches of range.  cutscene of a repaired laser hitting zhaitan again, knocking off a wing while he lands on the deck of the airship.

phase 3: Logan puts up his bubble (like in CoF story), but it's not up all the time.  The party cannot attack from behind the shield, and when Zhaitan does the typical dragon scream, Logan loses the shield for a time.  Zhaitan gains the typical 3 attack spots of other dragons, and other than the screams has a petrify/poison breath and hard hitting aoe smashes with his arms.  Can also put up the walls like Claw of Jormag that push the party back.  At 10% hp, a cutscene plays with Zojja saying something about overcharging the laser, blah blah blah, laser fires and shoots off one of Zhaitan's arms and his lower jaw, but the laser is destroyed.

phase 4: tank and spank until Zhaitan dies.  Logan no longer has shield, but Zhaitan can no longer do his breath moves or scream.  Basically easy mode for the final 10% of his HP as Zhaitan's only attack is a 1 armed aoe smack.

of course I'm no game designer, but I think this would be much more interesting and engaging to the players.

Edited by matsif, 16 February 2013 - 09:51 PM.


#7 Alex Dimitri

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 10:31 PM

Get him out of the stupid Arah and put him into open world make him crazy badass (single daily encounter, and exotic and up drops only) he is after all antagonist no.1 of this game right !
Entire last mission is kind of bad and useless, honestly thrash mobs are harder to kill then Zhaitan.....which is just plain `ol wrong.

#8 Aeris130

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 02:10 AM

Skip the whole dungeon straight to the fight. Trahearne suggests beating Zhaitan using a 15 minute long turret sequence and gets thrown off the ship as punishment.

DE&C:o rams the ship into Zhaitans torso, plunging him onto the pillar. After that the party ascends his body JP-style as he bleeds champions and exotics out of every orifice. Finishes at the top with a series of fights against hs mouth-snakes or whatever to buy time as the rest of the fleet charges their lasers. Everyone gets a legendary and credits roll.

Edited by Aeris130, 17 February 2013 - 02:13 AM.


#9 Auenwing

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 02:38 AM

<inserts tongue in cheek>

Trahearne needed to be part of the fight.

I'd like him to utter the phrase "this won't end well" before putting him into a cannon and shooting him straight into Zhaitain's mouth.

As Trahearne is continuing to babble in flight, Zhaitan  swallows him whole, spits the legendary Caladbolg (the sword) back at you (for your use), grabs his scaly throat, eyes bulging, promptly chokes on Trahearne and  falls into the Abyss.

Two unwelcome characters gone with one flash.

With possibility of resurrection from the Abyss.

If they decide to bring back the slime-covered zombie Trahearne who wants  vengence on you (and his sword back), it would be a pleasure to slay the corrupted vegetable for all eternity.

<dry look>


ps: just posted this on the official forum. That would make the fight feel more "epic" ;)  And one I would level multiple characters to see over and over.

Edited by Auenwing, 17 February 2013 - 02:45 AM.


#10 Sword Hammer Axe

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:09 PM

I would scale the difficulty back to how it was before, because now it's just ridiculously easy, fighting off 3 silver eyes and the black pools do zero damage.

Other than that, I'd probably give Zhaitan the ability to reach us in his final stage. Give him a wing sweep attack and some claw attacks and a breath attack, let him summon some minions (like those tentacles, only stronger), and have the ship circle around him while fighting him or otherwise make it necessary to aim the cannons, because now it's just press a button.

#11 omar316

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:17 AM

Shorten the whole dungeon by 10 to 15 mins.
Who wants to ride a rail with nothing interesting but trying to avoid some giant spit crap with cannon shields which doesnt even make you fail. Completely boring.

The 3 sub bosses with the giant fatty, Black ghost and stupid bird should each drop unique dungeon items.
These dungeon items are keys to 3 door ways/portals to reach Zaithan.

Create 3 different branching paths to 2 final paths. Each path should have 1 final boss. Give the player to choose which one of the 3 he wants to take. One path should be melee focused, another would be ranged and the final would be a gimmick/mechanic based path.

The Dragons can be the gimmick/mechanic path.

The 2 final bosses here should be of some importance to Zhaitan's dominance/power/existence.
Zhaitan swoops down after he dies and a land fight ensues.
Create 4 phases. 1 for logan, 1 for Zojja 1 for the dumb ranger and finally 1 for us players.
Logan can be a tank and spank where you need to attack Zhaitan till a certain threshhold and Logan is required to stun him to do true damage, like how Link needed protect Zelda while she charged up her light arrow to shoot the giant pig in PHG.

Zhaithan takes flight and tried to lure you in to an epic looking cavern for some ranged fight where he pigeon holes all your 5 asses into a single valley. But Zojja come to your rescue. She drops a few cannons with super kamehameha spirit energy powers although her ship drop aiming sucks so they are scattered all over the valley walls. They each got hit points and 2 of them need to be manned at all times, 1 for distraction/weakening his threshhold, the other to damage him. He also got a whip attack to dismount you. You need to move to the next phase before all 5 dragonball cannons are destroyed.

Dumb ranger phase.
Zhaitan is tired. So he calls minions and puts up some magical walls like in Jormag's 2nd stage with ice blocks. You need to clear these minions and walls so the dumb ranger can call her stupid wolf to deliver a targetting device on his head.

Finally in that same stage if you can manage to complete it within the time limit, our super awesome * cat Charr Mr Rytlock Mufasa( Please dont tell me you missed the reference in him falling into the lava in CoF) would roll in with a fing awesome looking tank with a bloody 800mm cannon and shoot his face.

Zhaithan is completely tired and is on the verge of death. He does some mojo to rejenerate health. If he gets it past a certain point you fall back to stage 3. Of course Mufasa came in with extra munitions.

If not throw in some black pools of death some eyeballs and exploding fatties while dpsing Zhaitan.

Epic ending with him exploding and stuff. Explosion does damage and if you all die you're *ed and need to redo the whole dungeon.

#12 Trei

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:56 AM

Oh just add one thing:

For a stray shot from nowhere to hit Trahearne square in the face and kills him in the chopper *pit during evac, then have the player drag him out and throw the dead weight off, then commandeer the chopper himself and saves the day.
Yeah.

If Trahearne could fly a chopper, well so can I.

On second thought, our great Marshall does not necessarily need to be dead when we throw him off.

#13 Asomal

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:52 AM

I'd change the whole fight to something like this:



Ok, not exactly like this, but you got the picture.

#14 DarkGanni

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:37 PM

A real challenge maybe? Compared to GW1's Prophecies last mission, Zhaitan's fight is like one of Uwe Boll's movies.


Spoiler


I'd keep the same route minus the airship battle. Having the last fight taking place on the ground and make it as hard as Lupicus before the patch. Since Logan and the others were part of Destiny's Edge I think it would have been ideal to help them prepare some form of spell or trap to kill the boss.

One thing's for certain, I don't like the airship battle and personally I'd remove it.

Of course I doubt ANet is gonna do something about this, there's more important matters to focus on.

#15 Airwolf

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:49 AM

Lets begin small, lasers that actually fire in the general direction of zhaitan.

Make them feel more like a treb with left, right, up, down and fire. The battle is crap, but those cannons are the part I really hate.

Edited by Airwolf, 21 February 2013 - 01:51 AM.


#16 Westwater

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 03:55 AM

I was sorely disappointed at what can only be described as a bait-and-switch in the design of the weird ass helicopters you use in Arah.
http://oi45.tinypic.com/28a2mp0.jpg

How the hell did that thing NOT become the head of a giant robot?

#17 Pariah

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:15 AM

View PostWestwater, on 21 February 2013 - 03:55 AM, said:

I was sorely disappointed at what can only be described as a bait-and-switch in the design of the weird ass helicopters you use in Arah.
http://oi45.tinypic.com/28a2mp0.jpg

How the hell did that thing NOT become the head of a giant robot?
Wait until we get to fight the other Dragons :P

#18 Jentari

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 12:40 PM

Start by removing about 1/2 of the dungeon (way to long and if you do cut scenes forget it), next remove the requirement to have 4 other people in your party to do this story.  Haven't needed them up to this point, don't need them now.  Now get Destiny's Edge more involved, remove the airship, fight on ground.  Now after getting it to this point then you can start looking at other options.

#19 two maces

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 02:14 PM

Should be allowed to climb on Zhaitan and slay the individual heads he has.

Then when he is weakened, crash onto a tower, you jump onto the airship and escape before the laser goes hypothermic and explode with zhaitan killing it.

#20 Desild

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 02:32 PM

At the very least, they could add an Avatar of Zhaitan that fights us directly on deck, instead of three Eyes, and have him go down in phases, so we can pelt Zhaitan's health while his avatar gets on its feat.

They did it in Fractals so it's not a question of lacking the tech to do so. Just ask the Collossus.




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