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Should the cap have been level 20?


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#571 lazykoala

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 06:10 AM

All I continually wish for in an mmo is 10 bazillion different skills, talents, traits, etc.... All I want is tons of choices to choose how I want to play and I thought gw1 did that better than any other game. That's the reason I stopped enjoying wow when they circumcised the talent trees and that's why I don't enjoy gw2 as much as I want to. I don't care if it's harder to balance or if it results in build wars. I'd still rather have only 20 levels, but with tons of choices and things to do.

#572 XPhiler

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:15 AM

View PostFeathermoore, on 05 March 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

Mod Statement: Stop arguing about the definition of a word. Drop it and move on to actually discussion instead of wasting time.

/End Mod Statement



This is completely off topic, but I can't help but point out that the GW1 group of 8 heroes were not just normal people with no extra abilities. We were some of the Chosen. Not only were we Chosen, but we were the only group that successfully Ascended. Entire races attempted to Ascend and failed (some failing more spectacularly than others). Ascension gave us the blessing of the gods, allowing us to harness all magic types despite the influence of the bloodstones (something non-ascended person could not do lore-wise) and gave us True Sight without which we could never have even seen the Mursaat let alone kill them. It let us enter the Realm of The Gods.

Ignoring direct lore, being ascended also allowed the PCs to gain 15 more attribute points that were unable to be acquired without Ascending, further increasing their power above a normal person.

In factions, we were only able to defeat Shiro because we became "Closer to the Stars," allowing us to see him (amusingly a repeat of the Prophesies mechanic). In Nightfall, we were only able to defeat Abaddon because the 5 gods powered us up after the Gate of Madness mission.

GW1 characters were VERY special compared to the normal person of Tyria.

Yeah thats true, completely forgot about ascension, twice no less. thanks for reminding me.

View Postastromarmot, on 05 March 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

Actually some of the best of that sort of stuff(shared story vs shared gaming mechanics) I found was NWN( or 2, damn I can't remember which now) multiplayer as rough around-the-edges as it was...it was much more about the RPG than the mechanics, and there was some pretty awesome community content...
community generated content is a big plus in terms of RPG without a doubt. Its what makes me really interested in neverwinter mmo that should be releasing soon. Taking star trek online as an example there are some really good community generated missions there that are really enjoyable.

#573 XPhiler

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:20 AM

View PostEl Duderino, on 06 March 2013 - 01:04 AM, said:

Are we....actually...going to agree on something?!

I do understand and appreciate your opinion about the ability to jump in to a fight and actually feel more like you are fighting. (I still think some of the GW1 stuff could have been squeezed in there though ;).)

But, yes, the amount of time it takes to level really feels like nothing more than a good old grind fest. I have never been as bored in this game as when I was between levels 40-79.

Now that I have one character at 80, I am loathe to go level another alt, even though I want a D/D Ele in the worst way. I literally don't have enough time to do all the things I want to do with my 80 right now. The end game is a bit contrived for me still, but it is certainly there. And I have no plans on trying for a legendary.

If you really want to level an ele isnt there a way around what you hated in the lvl 40 - 79 area? if it was lack of group play can you continue leveling in the sub lvl 40 zones? use crafting? dungeons or perhaps do some WvW? apart from the personal story there is really not reason why you have to level in those zones if you dont enjoy yourself. I would just do the story missions cause they give out a ton of XP though.

#574 raspberry jam

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:50 AM

View PostXPhiler, on 05 March 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

Probably yes but then again nothing is stopping the 500 archers from going to pay him a visit personally either.
The 8 man party limit.

View Postlazykoala, on 06 March 2013 - 06:10 AM, said:

All I continually wish for in an mmo is 10 bazillion different skills, talents, traits, etc.... All I want is tons of choices to choose how I want to play and I thought gw1 did that better than any other game. That's the reason I stopped enjoying wow when they circumcised the talent trees and that's why I don't enjoy gw2 as much as I want to. I don't care if it's harder to balance or if it results in build wars. I'd still rather have only 20 levels, but with tons of choices and things to do.
Yes, exactly. This. Low power cap, loads of choices.

#575 Jump_N_Move

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:05 PM

Secretly I keep hoping GW2 turtles and dies, so I can start a Kickerstarter to buy out GW2 source-code and combine it with GW1. mhmmm GW1.5.

-Dual-Profession
-5/5 split skill bar. Weapons skills get 5 and are de-linked from pre-set bars. Utility gets 5. Healing slot no longer mandatory, but self-heals are so good in GW2 you'd almost be silly not to use it. 1 Elite still non-mandatory.
-Primary profession would be minor traits. major traits de-link from specific lines and can pick from either profession.
-Reworked Boons/Conditions with more profession specific effects. aka Bring back hexes.
-Bring back single-target and ally targeting
-Leave Protection Healer neuteured. Instead buff generic conidition/boon/hex/defensive skills so that any class can take them as a counter.
-Energy is debatable. Its really just a secondary cooldown and really throws a wrench in calculating Damage vs Energy vs Time vs Skill Synergy. In the end it just limits over the top, all elite power skill bars. I think the same could be accomplished with just lengthening cooldowns on high power skills. Makes that skill usage and timing that more important.
-Remove armor tiers and prefixes all together. Give each class base stats, and then set amount of stat points to allocate manually. Armor grind is stupid.
-Low Level cap. More variance in post-max level zones. Pre-max level zones don't provide any experience in dealing with harder/complex combat mechanics as the focus is mainly still on leveling and just surviving. Quick ramp to max, and then a gradual climb in combat complexity afterward provides longer and more stable experiences in pve.

My imagination just runs and runs when I think about combining the two....oh one can dream.

Edited by Jump_N_Move, 06 March 2013 - 04:08 PM.


#576 omar316

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:48 AM

View PostJump_N_Move, on 06 March 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

Snip

I'd rather remove player levels completely.
I'd like to see a hybrid of the SWTOR and Diablo trees.

3 trees, maybe 2 for each weapon.
The more you use a weapon the more level your tree gains to unlock / purchase more abilities.

DPS tree, Support Tree and Utility Tree.

DPS tree is the standard fare, strictly single target.
Support tree has heal based/cleanse based abilities, bubble shields, a threat generator? defensive cooldowns.
Utility tree, just throw all kinds of bloody CC in there with some offensive AoEs.

Like you mentioned player can only choose a limited set of abilites, say 10, but the top of the tree has the elites.
So if you want an elite skill you need to complete max out the the tree for the elite, which would mean playing and training with the weapon for a set amount of time. Basically I want to feel like I am playing the game but I get better and more proficient with using the weapons for a long time.

Remove all stats from gear. Give gear bonuses to specific builds.
Also remove all kind of heavy/light/medium/leather/toilet paper armour classification.
So if I want to be a super threat generating cleansing AoE class i'd want to get gear with bonuses to say health, or defensive CD reductions.

Hell you can use bonuses as slot in gems to the armour, like how they can modify armour in SWTOR.
Keep gear bonuses and builds separate to offer more diversity for builds.
One should be able to choose to be a high health DPS, a player with lots of defensive options or a modifier to have more AoE options, say increase of range and damage.

#577 Jump_N_Move

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:27 AM

Eh see I prefer to expand beyond the trinity. I liked the 8v8 team builds of GW1 because of the diversity in the classes could combine for interesting things.
In your method, you ultimately need to remove classes altogether because they'd serve no purpose. You'd be better off having their current armor class and main trait tree combine to be their class name when viewed through the UI. That way everyone isn't just a character. That's part of the reason classes exist. To pre-tailor you for common set styles of play and give you a hint as to their party/teamwork capabilities.

I think some sort of level system is required to at least usher casual, and non-skilled players through the process of becoming acclimated with the game's mechanics. The level 20 cap in GW was really easy to obtain. But there were more max and near max level zones afterward that progressed in difficulty. Ultimately you need some sort of system to define player/monster power level as to indicate relative strength. Unless you go korean mmo style and just start showing straight hp and armor stat in the UI.

#578 Millimidget

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 05:36 AM

View PostXPhiler, on 06 March 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

community generated content is a big plus in terms of RPG without a doubt.
Absolutely, and I'm surprised developers have been so hesitant to make use of the playerbase. Amongst WoW's 3rd party attractions were the extensive mods players developed; not all of them were good for the game (some were downright terrible for the genre, and yet were adopted wholesale), but it's still indicative of the lengths players can go to supplement what the developers are willing to do or capable of doing.

View PostXPhiler, on 06 March 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

Taking star trek online as an example there are some really good community generated missions there that are really enjoyable.
My only complaint with STO's foundry system is that it seems to be locked away behind their lifetime membership program (or a comparable amount of time as a subscriber).

I'd love to get in there and start playing around with it, but I'm not spending hundreds of dollars to do so.




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