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Lore behind legendary weapons?


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#1 Geralt Romalion

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 09:27 AM

I was wondering if there is anything we know about the legendaries currently in the game lorewise.
The wiki only lists the weapon stats, skin, and what mats are needed to make them.
But what makes legendaries so legendary?
What heroic acts have been performed with these weapons, or what great hero wielded them?
Why are they legendary?
What happened in the 250 years between GW1 and GW2 that caused these weapons to become legendary?
Perhaps I am thinking to much into this, but I want to know why a legendary weapon deserves its legendary status lorewise ( and not just " because Anet makes them legendary / they are legendary because you need legendary patience to grind all mats for them ).

#2 Yski

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 09:44 AM

From what I've understood, the mighty hero wielding the weapon and making it legendary is you. That's pretty much it.

#3 HederaHelix

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:31 AM

I know a lot of them take inspiration from ouitside game things.  Like The Dreamer being rumored to have something to do with a song.

#4 Just Horus

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:40 AM

I always thought no one knew the Flameseeker Prophecies fully (Did Glint know all of it or just more than the Lich?). If this is the case, is the tome on the Flameseeker Prophecies shield the written script? If so, how does Zommorros know?

#5 Mexay

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:44 AM

I'd hazard a guess and say The Moot is a norn thing.

Flameseeker prophecies is easy enough to figure out.

Sunrise/Twilight/Eternity is probably something to do with the Gods or the High Priest of Orr.

Frostfang is most likely a Jormag thing.

Kraitkin is probably some kind of Krait artifact.



There is no official law, but we can make educated guesses.

#6 raspberry jam

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:35 AM

View PostGeralt Romalion, on 18 February 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

What heroic acts have been performed with these weapons, or what great hero wielded them?
(...)
What happened in the 250 years between GW1 and GW2 that caused these weapons to become legendary?
But most (all?) of the legendaries are never mentioned in GW1 or in the two novels or in any of the texts we've seen... So those 250 years didn't cause them to become legendary.
And the hero is your own character.

View PostHorus Moonlight, on 18 February 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

Did Glint know all of it
IIRC Glint was the author of the text? Doesn't mean that she knew all that would happen in the Prophecies storyline, just that she wrote it.

#7 Nabuko Darayon

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:40 AM

Yeah I'm interested about the lore behind these legendaries too.... just like Caladbog...

#8 Speno

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:45 PM

My Dreamer came from Unicorn poop, infused with children's tears, and baby quaggan bones.

#9 The_Blades

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:08 PM

I can only think of some really legendary weapons: magdaer and sohothin (swords from rurik and Adelbern which got named in gw2) the scepter of orr, shiro's blades, the spear of Archemorus (?) and Saint Viktor's Urn (luxon and Kurzick heros who slain Shiro)

Lore-wise, the flameseeker prophecies are pretty much self evident, since its the name for the adventure in gw1 prophecies.

also rodgort is a well known name for gw1 players, since there were at least 2 elementalist skills named after Him/it.

there are probably many other weapons but those are the ones i can think of right now. someone with better lore knowledge can say a lot more.

The weapons labeled as legendary in gw2 mean nothing to me lorewise tbh. not much legend in buying from the tp.

Edited by The_Blades, 18 February 2013 - 04:09 PM.


#10 Trei

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:22 PM

If you are talking about lore of a weapon as in say Frostmourne or Excalibur and their stories etc...

Well, there can't possibly be any lore behind your legendary(tier) weapon when as far as your own story continuum is concerned, it only just came into being because you just crafted it.

The legends likely refer to rumors or myths of supposed methods and recipes to creating such weapons with special magical properties and you, the hero, proved the legends true.

Such weapons are not meant to be completely unique in lore since obviously someone would have supposedly made one before for the legend to come about in the first place.
Only thing is that your predecessor's Twilight may not have looked like your Twilight in appearance. Maybe his was shaped like a scimitar instead, for example.

Edited by Trei, 18 February 2013 - 04:42 PM.


#11 Beta Sprite

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:37 PM

View PostTrei, on 18 February 2013 - 04:22 PM, said:

Well, there can't possibly be any lore behind your legendary(tier) weapon when as far as your own story continuum is concerned, it only just came into being because you just crafted it.

You don't craft them.  You get them as a gift from Zommoros in the mystic forge for giving him certain items.

Edited by Beta Sprite, 18 February 2013 - 04:38 PM.


#12 Trei

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:44 PM

View PostBeta Sprite, on 18 February 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

You don't craft them.  You get them as a gift from Zommoros in the mystic forge for giving him certain items.
Oh...

Ah... well that changes things.. :zip:

#13 Konig Des Todes

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 01:33 AM

This has got to be the tenth thread I've seen asking about Legendary lore (third, I think, on Guru2)...

Anyways:

Overall, there's no lore to them. However, there are themes that many hold.

Twilight/Sunrise/Eternity is wielded by the RIsen High Wizard who guards the gates of Arah. So they may be of Orrian origin.

Frostfang utilizes a weapon with the Corrupted Skeggox skin for its precursor and Frostfang itself has a draconic appearance; with the ice effects Frostfang seems to be a "furthered corrupted" form of the Corrupted Skeggox (furthermore, it's made from Honor of the Waves tokens which is heavily dealing with Jormag's influence).

The Flameseeker Prophecies holds a New Krytan transcription of Meerak the Shouter's... shouts from post-Searing GW1 Prophecies.

The Moot is, as said, likely a norn thing. The Bifrost too.

Kraitkin is likely something similar to the Blue Orb found during the Apatia storyline (fear that you'd have to cause harm to another), which is heavily implied to be tied to the deep sea dragon and is believed by the krait to be tied to their prophets.

Rodgort likely has ties to fiery charr/a dragon given the shape, but may just be a reference to the GW1 fire elementalist skills which in turn were a reference to Trogdor.

Kamohoali'i Kotaki is clearly named after the elusive artist of grandeur, Kekai Kotaki.

I suspect Kudzu is tied to the sylvari somehow.

Given design, I suspect that Frenzy and Quip hold shared origins.

Based on their looks, The Predator and Incinerator seem to be of charr origins.

The Minstrel is all that's left of Helder Torlack, a minstrel who was done in by a mesmer. Its his flesh and bones forged into a weapon to eteranlize his musical voice. Also, The Dreamer comes from Canterlot, made by Princess Celestia with the aid of Twilight Sparkles. (yes, I'm joking on this)

The rest are still a mystery.

View PostNabuko Darayon, on 18 February 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

Yeah I'm interested about the lore behind these legendaries too.... just like Caladbog...
Caladbolg is a sword crafted from the bark of the Pale Tree. Originally given to Riannoc to slay Mazdak the Accursed, who's a lich and thus immune to being killed by most means of damage (like Joko and Khilbron). It's basically an anti-lich weapon.

The Pale Tree said she'd never make another weapon again, given the power of Caladbolg, which is capable of enhancing an individual's characteristics (both positive and negative) , and kind of breaks the law of the Bloodstone what with having abilities seen by elementalists, guardians, and mesmers.

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#14 HawkofStorms

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 03:06 AM

Zommos the Djinn of the Mystic Forge doesn't really exist.  He's a construct built by an asura.  The Captains Counsel of Lion's Arch have developed a system where people throw their valuable items into the mystic forge to run a secret mercantile ponze scheme.  In exchanged for hundreds of incredibly rare items fueling the elite's mansions and many servants, you are given a regular weapon that has a few shiney bobbles on it because the common folk are basically skritt.

Edited by HawkofStorms, 19 February 2013 - 03:07 AM.


#15 Daenerys

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 03:23 AM

Darn it, Konig. I got all excited about the Dreamer. (also joking, it's been a solid eight years since I was obsessed with My Little Pony. Would it ruin any street cred I have if I admit I once had a birthday party partially involving My Little Pony?)

Where is Caladbolg now?

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#16 draxynnic

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 04:59 AM

Regarding Caladbolg (endgame spoiler):

Spoiler

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#17 Saul Spotter

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 10:30 PM

I really like it when there's a blerb about the weapon I'm wielding, but I understand that it can make things astheticly unbalanced.  So it'd be cool if you could take named exotics and legendaries and display them in player housing, like you could in the HoM.  Only when you do it in this game a blerb shows up.  A quote from its previous wielder or about the weapon.

The Dreamer's quote ought to be about its creator, an Asura who was a perticularly vibrant shade of green, and ultimately accepting of that fact despite having trouble growing up as such.

#18 Konig Des Todes

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:03 AM

View PostHawkofStorms, on 19 February 2013 - 03:06 AM, said:

Zommos the Djinn of the Mystic Forge doesn't really exist.
Truth.

Zommoros, however, does. :P (I talked to him!)

View PostSaul Spotter, on 19 February 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

I really like it when there's a blerb about the weapon I'm wielding, but I understand that it can make things astheticly unbalanced.
Don't see how, if by blerb you mean like all those heart vendor items. Or the Ascended book backpieces and amulets.

You know, it's kind of weird how the Ascended gear and some Exotics have more lore to them than the legendaries.

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#19 Orual Fox

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:14 PM

Honestly, I tend to keep some of the skins around just for those little blerbs.  Like the Skritt Neutralizer mace skin.  

"I find that the best way to deal with skritt is to hit them hard in the head before they throw something at you."

#20 Sword Hammer Axe

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 02:24 PM

View PostHederaHelix, on 18 February 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

I know a lot of them take inspiration from ouitside game things.  Like The Dreamer being rumored to have something to do with a song.

Probably Dream Mare by Uriah Heep.

#21 Trei

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 02:49 PM

Hmmm, wait a min...

So the djinni, upon receiving the specific gifts, simply just dig into his endless storage and pulls out a specific legendary weapon to give it to the player? Implying that the legendary weapon actually already existed but simply kept by the djinni all along?

Then why do we need precursors?
They must be called that for a reason.

I think I stand by what I previously said in the thread - a legendary is magically "forged" by the djinni using the gifts and the precursor weapon and then given to the player.
Therefore, it did not actually exist prior to the player getting it forged.

#22 Orual Fox

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:57 PM

I believe that the name "precursors" were a name given to the weapons by players, not the actual developers.  So I wouldn't look too deep into the name "precursor."  I am not 100% sure on that, but I think I remember reading something during the beta that it was a slang developed by the community that has then become the common phrase for it.

As for Zomorros forging the weapons, I don't know.  I mean, based on Miyani (the chick at the forge) where she talks about the "gifts" you bring Z and basically how you are trying to please him, and 3 out of the 4 reqs are "Gifts of x", I feel you are proving to Z that you are capable or worthy of having the Legendary weapon.  Djinns in Nightfall were always guarding vast amounts of treasure, so why not Z?  Sure, he's a captured Djinn, but perhaps he still has some magical connection to the treasures he protected at one time.

Edited by Orual Fox, 21 February 2013 - 06:00 PM.


#23 Konig Des Todes

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:38 PM

Actually, precursors are given by the devs - they have little blurb-like descriptions that say "Precursor for <legendary name>." But I take this to be a mechanical thing more than anything.

I still don't think they're crafted, though, given as said - djinn are greedy little sentient elementals that often hoard treasures. Zomorros is just a... humble merchant, who's willing to give a weapon of great appearance and semi-great power to those who feed his hunger.

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#24 Trei

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 01:23 AM

View PostKonig Des Todes, on 21 February 2013 - 11:38 PM, said:

I still don't think they're crafted, though, given as said - djinn are greedy little sentient elementals that often hoard treasures. Zomorros is just a... humble merchant, who's willing to give a weapon of great appearance and semi-great power to those who feed his hunger.
I do not think djinns are greedy, only possessive or protective by nature. I know of no record of greed being a characteristic of the race. In fact, information from the wiki indicates the direct opposite since ancient individuals of great power chose djinns to guard their wealth or land.

But let's say for argument's sake that at least Zom is greedy.
The generic gifts of fortune and/or magic may likely be actual gifts/bribes to the djinni, gifts that he'd keep for himself as the price to "forge" the legendary weapon requested by the player with the rest of the weapon-specific gifts and the precursor.

Is it only a coincidence that one makes a gift with a unicorn statue to get a shortbow with a unicorn statue head on it?
Precursor sword + gift of lightning = legendary sword with lightning on it?
Precursor staff + gift of rainbow = rainbow staff?
etc

If not, then where did Zommoros himself get the legendary weapons from?

Why are legendary weapons so frequently referred to as being crafted?
"... The mystic forge has various uses, ranging from transmuting weapons to higher level versions to the crafting of legendary weapons...."
"...Legendary weapons are a set of high end weapons that have unique appearances. They are crafted in the Mystic Forge...."
"...This strange object holds the imprisoned djinn Zommoros, who hails from distant Elona. If you offer him the proper gifts, he will create new items for you...."

Edited by Trei, 22 February 2013 - 01:29 AM.


#25 Ottoman

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 01:53 AM

Not sure if mentioned yet, but I kinda liked in WoW when you were going for a legendary weapon it would involve alot of travelling around and quests - killing certain bosses etc. Made forging a legendary into an adventure of its own.

#26 Konig Des Todes

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 10:01 AM

View PostTrei, on 22 February 2013 - 01:23 AM, said:

I do not think djinns are greedy, only possessive or protective by nature. I know of no record of greed being a characteristic of the race. In fact, information from the wiki indicates the direct opposite since ancient individuals of great power chose djinns to guard their wealth or land.
*coughs*

Quote

Beware the path of vice, my friend. Many rebellions have been caused by the greed of a single soldier, mad for power. Many a djinn has been bound in service because of their own avarice, lust, and sin.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Julyia

View PostTrei, on 22 February 2013 - 01:23 AM, said:

If not, then where did Zommoros himself get the legendary weapons from?
That's the million dollar question.

View PostTrei, on 22 February 2013 - 01:23 AM, said:

Why are legendary weapons so frequently referred to as being crafted?
"... The mystic forge has various uses, ranging from transmuting weapons to higher level versions to the crafting of legendary weapons...."
"...Legendary weapons are a set of high end weapons that have unique appearances. They are crafted in the Mystic Forge...."
"...This strange object holds the imprisoned djinn Zommoros, who hails from distant Elona. If you offer him the proper gifts, he will create new items for you...."
You do realize that each and every quote you just made is written by players, right?

Mechanically, it functions the same as crafting. But that's not lore.

Now, if you want lore, you should take this:

Quote

Zommoros offers the chance to improve items, but he can be wildly inconsistent. Toy may get a wondrous item. Or, you may get garbage.

[...]

Place items in it that you want Zommoros to transform. He might improve them greatly, or give you back dreck. Genies are...unpredictable.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Miyani

That's the closest to any lore mention of "crafting" at the Mystic Forge there is. And it's just about when you toss random stuff in, rather than actual recipes (the whole unpredictable bit shows that).

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#27 Trei

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 01:54 PM

It is called the Mystic Forge, after all.
Why not the Mystic House? Mystic Cauldron? Bowl? Casino?

You have some valid points, but I cannot deny all these clues and hints in the names used for all the related items and whatnot, in the processes... even if, as you said, the information available to us are albeit written by other players.

Sometimes the results are unpredictable, but there can also be certain specific ones are fixed, like the legendary weapons and the gifts.
I don't see that as a stretch by any means nor is it against the argument that bestowed items are newly created by Zom as opposed to being pulled out of his personal stash.

Not to mention that NPCs' words should not always be taken as the truth or factual either; they are only saying what they "know".
Even if Julyia was right, would it make all humans foolish or dumb by nature if many a human had indeed died due to foolishness? Would the statement that "all humans are known to be stupid" be fair because of that?

Anyway, what I am merely saying is that everything I am seeing or reading about right now does not point to legendary weapons being in existence prior to the player giving Zom the gifts and subsequently receiving one.
They come into being after the player pleases Zom enough for him to bestow this grand favor of transmuting the gifts and the precursor into the new legendary weapon.

The weapon itself need not necessarily be what "legendary" refers to, but could simply be the myth of the components required and the forging process, "legends have it that if you do this with that and that, you would get this!"

Finally, I am not at all arguing for anything I said to be lore.
There is no lore about any of these, only speculations until Anet's writers confirm or deny them.
I am merely stating what I currently am inclined to believe based on available info.

Edited by Trei, 22 February 2013 - 02:06 PM.


#28 Konig Des Todes

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 07:15 PM

GW1 dialogue was written in a vastly different degree, style, and viewpoint than GW2 dialogue. What NPCs in GW1 say has always been objective (until retconned into subjectivity via "history was wrong"), whereas GW2 NPCs are from the get go talking about a subjective view. Even GW2 NPCs should be taken "truthful until proven or implied otherwise" (like how Thruln's wrong in some things, so the rest of what he says is less credible).


View PostTrei, on 22 February 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

You have some valid points, but I cannot deny all these clues and hints in the names used for all the related items and whatnot, in the processes... even if, as you said, the information available to us are albeit written by other players.
Every clue and hint is made by the players, purely, except for the name Mystic Forge and the term precursor.

The amount of credibility as official in that is 0.

View PostTrei, on 22 February 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

Anyway, what I am merely saying is that everything I am seeing or reading about right now does not point to legendary weapons being in existence prior to the player giving Zom the gifts and subsequently receiving one.
They come into being after the player pleases Zom enough for him to bestow this grand favor of transmuting the gifts and the precursor into the new legendary weapon.
Nothing says or implies Zommorros has the ability to transmute. And while nothing really solidly shows that the weapons are from some stash, nothing implies they're crafted (or just simply not from some stash).

Edited by Mockingjay74, 22 February 2013 - 11:05 PM.
Removed flaming, non-contributing text.

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#29 Trei

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 12:49 AM

View PostKonig Des Todes, on 22 February 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

GW1 dialogue was written in a vastly different degree, style, and viewpoint than GW2 dialogue. What NPCs in GW1 say has always been objective (until retconned into subjectivity via "history was wrong"), whereas GW2 NPCs are from the get go talking about a subjective view. Even GW2 NPCs should be taken "truthful until proven or implied otherwise" (like how Thruln's wrong in some things, so the rest of what he says is less credible).


Every clue and hint is made by the players, purely, except for the name Mystic Forge and the term precursor.

The amount of credibility as official in that is 0.

Nothing says or implies Zommorros has the ability to transmute. And while nothing really solidly shows that the weapons are from some stash, nothing implies they're crafted (or just simply not from some stash).
I only used "transmute" for lack of a more appropriate word since no one other than the djinn himself has an idea of what was done.
Let me correct it to "magically create" if you have to be like that. But that's not the important point here, is it?

Point:
I believe a legendary weapon does not exist until a player gives the mystic forge djinn what is needed to create it, in other words it is not pulled out of the djinn's own collection of treasures in exchange.

Unless there is also lore that actually shows that djinns have such trading habits too?
Is it even confirmed officially that Zommoros does indeed actually have his own treasure stash?

The clues and hints I referred to are precisely only the name Mystic Forge, the precursor moniker for the seed weapons and the actual components required to make the Gifts (gift of lightning -> Bolt, unicorn statue -> Dreamer etc)

Does it really seem sensible to believe the djinn would give you a Gift in exchange when you give him the correct mats for it, then turn around and take the Gift back when you then use it as mats for the actual legendary weapon?

It makes a whole lot more sense to me for Zom to actually fuse/craft/conjure/transmute/meld/forge/or-whatever-other-magical-means-of-creation a Gift for the player. Maybe the materials as stated in the recipe are indeed used, why else would they officially be called Recipes?
So if we assume that to be true, we have precedence that Zom creates for the player rather than trade with.
It is the simplest conclusion after we apply the Razor.

Anyway, I have presented my view on the origins of the legendary weapons.
I don't really see the need to continue a debate where neither side has enough official lore facts to back itself up.
Believe or disagree... it is up to the reader.

Edited by Trei, 23 February 2013 - 01:04 AM.


#30 draxynnic

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 11:31 PM

View PostTrei, on 23 February 2013 - 12:49 AM, said:

I don't really see the need to continue a debate where neither side has enough official lore facts to back itself up.
Believe or disagree... it is up to the reader.
That was pretty much my thinking - we don't really have anything either way, and I don't think any of the legendaries are something that we've seen before to be able to point at and say 'There it was!'. Okay, we've got the Risen high Wizard apparently wielding Sunrise, but that's pointing more towards the legendaries not being unique since Sunrise for players is independently obtained, not granted as loot from the High Wizard.

The precursors do seem to point towards the legendaries being created by Zommoros - but it's not 100% certain. It could be that the precursor is actually a kind of 'material link' to the legendary itself - an earlier work by the same creator, for instance - which Zommoros can use along with the Gifts to summon the legendary itself. Another possibility in between the two theories is that the precursor is the legendary in a dormant form, and the Gifts are needed in order to reawaken it - thus, in a way you're forging it, but more in a 'reforging the shards of Narsil' sense than the player being the first wielder of the legendary.

When push comes to shove, though, we simply don't know.
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