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Lore behind legendary weapons?


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#31 Piippo

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:36 PM

While we're on the topic of legendary items and equipment, does anyone know what happened to the Scepter of Orr? It just kinda disappeared along with Livia after GW1. Has there been any hints regarding it's fate?

#32 draxynnic

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 11:48 PM

I think there's been a vague hint or two that it ended up in the care of the Krytan royal family, but nothing concrete. If they do have it, they're certainly not using it in any overt fashion.
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#33 Evans

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 08:26 AM

If they were in fact based on real (Tyrian) life weapons, we should see a small print "made in Cantha" on each and every one we wield. They would just be copies of the real thing because it would be impossible for there to be more than one of each. It's also fair to say that they are much less powerful than the real deal would be.

#34 Lordkrall

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 08:36 AM

View PostEvans, on 25 February 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

If they were in fact based on real (Tyrian) life weapons, we should see a small print "made in Cantha" on each and every one we wield. They would just be copies of the real thing because it would be impossible for there to be more than one of each. It's also fair to say that they are much less powerful than the real deal would be.

You are however assuming that every other PC actually exists in Lore. That is most likely not true in most cases. After all YOU are the one who killed Zhaitan if you completed the Personal Story, not all those million others that did it before you.

#35 Evans

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:54 AM

Mmmm true, but that's only for the main personal story. The dungeon story for example assumes you are a group of 5 adventurers that come aid the DE members.

Also, where do you stand with this arguement in WvWvW? You can't say all characters there are the same one hero who killed Zhaitan. I like my assumption better. ;)

#36 Konig Des Todes

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:36 AM

View Postdraxynnic, on 24 February 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

I think there's been a vague hint or two that it ended up in the care of the Krytan royal family, but nothing concrete. If they do have it, they're certainly not using it in any overt fashion.
We only know that Livia had it "for a time" - what happened to it or where it is was never really given a hint - vague or otherwise.

View PostLordkrall, on 25 February 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

View PostEvans, on 25 February 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

If they were in fact based on real (Tyrian) life weapons, we should see a small print "made in Cantha" on each and every one we wield. They would just be copies of the real thing because it would be impossible for there to be more than one of each. It's also fair to say that they are much less powerful than the real deal would be.
You are however assuming that every other PC actually exists in Lore. That is most likely not true in most cases. After all YOU are the one who killed Zhaitan if you completed the Personal Story, not all those million others that did it before you.
And you, Lordkrall, are forgetting that each race's three personal story paths occur whether or not you're experiencing it.

Which means there could be 15 heroes. Though I'd presume at least 5 - one per race.

However, you're both assuming that the existence of dozens of legendaries being wielded by adventurers - or even existing, or even any legendary is wielded by adventurers - is lore. To which I would say no, there's only one of each legendary (and for that matter, likely Ascended and uniquely named exotic gear piece) - similarly, I'd say that there's only one of each green weapon in GW1 (there couldn't be 100 Ghial's Staves in lore, could there?).

View PostEvans, on 25 February 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Also, where do you stand with this arguement in WvWvW? You can't say all characters there are the same one hero who killed Zhaitan. I like my assumption better. ;)
Same route Anet went with Underworld lore for Godslost Swamp and when Dhuum broke free - dozens/hundreds of never-named adventurers.

But there's only 1-15 hero(es) that killed Zhaitan (alongside the entirety of the Pact).

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#37 Desild

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:08 AM

Much like the Eternal Forgemaster used a seemingly unknown process to fuse Ectoplasm and Obsidian as a woundrous form of armor, using a process that was unknown to us players (a process which, unless you can refute, has become the mainstream method of crafting powerful magical armor and weaponry). A popular theory was that he ate the Ectoplasm and just wanted to vex our PCs into bringing him a delicious treat. Turns out this conjecture has a kernel of truth, as Ectoplasm is not only EDIBLE but it is also aparently a nutricious source of magical energy. Just ask Zhaitan.

Aparently a proper discussion on the subject concluded that Ectoplasm was just Magic in raw form, and a convinient ingredient to infuse magic to artifacts. And grant them special effects.

Legendary weapons are, just like the Obsidian armor before it, the pinnacle of magical crafting, which can only be crafted by an elusive Ultimate Blacksmith, in this case Zommoros.

The lore of Legendary weapons is up for our guessing, but my theory is that, in their current form, these legendary artifacts are actually  Zommoro's interpertation of events and customs of Tyria, as Miyani (and her predecessor whoever who he/she was or if he/she even existed) relays to him in their time together. As you all know, Miyani is fundamental in crafting these items, as it is she the one that teaches you the necessary "gifts" you need to provide Zommoro for him to craft your weapon. Not Zommoro himself.

As for the process in which he creates these Legendary weapons, it is not too different from how we can create a Corrupted weapon by taking a basic template, an Etched weapon, and infusing it with a conglomerate of magical energy, pieces of condensed energy from Jormag, the Corrupted Lodestones. It's the process for Legendary weapons that becomes the much more convulted.

Nearly every expression of magical enery is tossed to the forge in order to create a Legendary weapon you see. A piece of the Bloodstone, thousands of animal body parts, badges of honor infused with mystic energy straight from the mists, crystalized power from one particular Elder Dragon, bucket loads of Ectoplasm, Clovers (a shout out of how much luck is part of owning these weapons, really), Obsidian shards and raw materials. As well as the basic template, a Precussor, which the process of obtaining one is as cryptic as the one involved in making the final product.

Bottom line? We are jumping over ourselves by wanting to "know" the Lore of Legendary weapons. It is already there, we just think it is imcomplete and simplistic. Well, that's because it is. Because there is nothing Legendary about a weapon forged by a blacksmith that lives inside a cooking pot. In the middle of the capital of the known world no less! Long gone are the days in which we had to travel to the center of a realm of a God to ask a blacksmith to craft our artifacts of power, and that is just a sad state of affairs.

We should probably just call them Artifact weapons or Legacy weapons. Their current name isn't descript of the actual nature... It's us the players that make them Legendary, not themselves on their own.

Edited by Desild, 25 February 2013 - 11:15 AM.


#38 Evans

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:25 PM

View PostKonig Des Todes, on 25 February 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

We only know that Livia had it "for a time" - what happened to it or where it is was never really given a hint - vague or otherwise.

And you, Lordkrall, are forgetting that each race's three personal story paths occur whether or not you're experiencing it.

Which means there could be 15 heroes. Though I'd presume at least 5 - one per race.

However, you're both assuming that the existence of dozens of legendaries being wielded by adventurers - or even existing, or even any legendary is wielded by adventurers - is lore. To which I would say no, there's only one of each legendary (and for that matter, likely Ascended and uniquely named exotic gear piece) - similarly, I'd say that there's only one of each green weapon in GW1 (there couldn't be 100 Ghial's Staves in lore, could there?).

Same route Anet went with Underworld lore for Godslost Swamp and when Dhuum broke free - dozens/hundreds of never-named adventurers.

But there's only 1-15 hero(es) that killed Zhaitan (alongside the entirety of the Pact).

The named greens and items are indeed tricky but I still think you could have copies of the original, especially those coming from vendors or the mystic forge. It might very well be that there's only one original Eternity, wielded by god knows who, but it might be in the power of Zommorros, should he choose so, to make a copy of this weapon. Do we even know how the mystic forge works anyway? Seems like Zommorros can call anything into being if he makes the effort. (I assume this because the rarer stuff usually requires a component that 'pleases' Zommorros. Lets call it a bribe)

I know the legendary weapons aren't part of the lore. As far as I know I haven't seen any reference to the rarity of items in the game conversations. I would just say that these things are extremely rare items in the world of Tyria, but not from history. These items probably mean nothing to the common Tyrian other than "wow that's amazing, I've never seen such a thing in my life".

The real legendary weapons are the likes of Magdaer and Sohothin.

#39 duncanmix

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 12:07 PM

When you trying to figure out legendary, you should consider every aspect of it. Not only name, but looks as well what items are used to create it. It's all probably connected somehow. Also detail especially in looks could be important.

After I saw each and every weapon, I only got interested in 2 legendaries: Shield and Scepter. Since I main warrior I made shield, and at first I didn't have idea whats it about. But later I found out its connected with Glint from gw1 and is part of the lore.

Reason why I find scepter maybe even more interesting is that is looks like some sort of planet system. Could it be that one of those planets is Tyria and that whole thing is actually solar system of Tyria, I guess we might find or not in future.

#40 Zahk

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 01:01 PM

I wish the would add something like the Bonus Mission Pack of GW1 for each legendary weapon (or for the precursors), explaining the story behind it :| (eg: "you have to equip the weapon in order to know its story")

Edited by Zahk, 26 February 2013 - 01:03 PM.


#41 raspberry jam

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 01:12 PM

View PostDesild, on 25 February 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

Much like the Eternal Forgemaster used a seemingly unknown process to fuse Ectoplasm and Obsidian as a woundrous form of armor
That's not what he uses the ecto for! ;)

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#42 Desild

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 01:14 PM

View PostZahk, on 26 February 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

I wish the would add something like the Bonus Mission Pack of GW1 for each legendary weapon (or for the precursors), explaining the story behind it :|

I know this might be hard to interiorize but, we have to face the possibilty that there's no actual story to Legendaries other than they were made by Zommoros. He doesn't pull them from thin air you know. You give him the materials as if they came from a shopping list and he shapes them into a weapon. Like any Legendary Blacksmith in the history of ever does.

These aren't replicas of some higher form of weapon wielded by the Heroes of Old. They are the genuine article. Woundrous artifacts made for your hero to wield. The similarity and the reason there's more than one, is because the guy who made them lives in the middle of the capital of the world! Well duh.

Mindboggling concept, I know, but beats the common the old gambit of "it's a replica" that plagues other games. They are not replicas. Like the Stradivarius aren't replicas of an original Godviolin made by someone, these "Legendaries" aren't replicas of anything. They are unique and rare. That's it.

View Postraspberry jam, on 26 February 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

That's not what he uses the ecto for! ;)

View PostDesild, on 25 February 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

A popular theory was that he ate the Ectoplasm and just wanted to vex our PCs into bringing him a delicious treat.

I liked my theory but that one is actually a better one! Heheh.

Edited by Desild, 26 February 2013 - 01:27 PM.


#43 Zahk

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 01:23 PM

View PostDesild, on 26 February 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

I know this might be hard to interiorize but, we have to face the possibilty that there's no actual story to Legendaries other than they were made by Zommoros. He doesn't pull them from thin air you know. You give him the mateterials as if it came from a shopping list and he shapes them into a weapon. Like any Legendary Blacksmith in the history of ever does.

I know, but, well... they could add some missions in order to make them more interesting XD

#44 Konig Des Todes

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:25 PM

View PostEvans, on 25 February 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

I know the legendary weapons aren't part of the lore. As far as I know I haven't seen any reference to the rarity of items in the game conversations. I would just say that these things are extremely rare items in the world of Tyria, but not from history. These items probably mean nothing to the common Tyrian other than "wow that's amazing, I've never seen such a thing in my life".

The real legendary weapons are the likes of Magdaer and Sohothin.
While Magdaer and Sohothin are definitely more well known legendary weapons, I highly disagree with the claim that the Legendary tier weapons are completely loreless.

Many Exotic weapons hold historical lore ties - be it in name, appearance, or both. The rest of the exotic weapons are more of having lore _references_.

Ascended items are the same - except for the quiver packs.

So why wouldn't the even rarer tier not have it when the next two highest tiers do?

As I presented in my first post in this thread, the legendary weapons do seem to have ties to lore - and at the very least, they hold thematic ties to things presented in lore or GW's player history, if not ties to the lore directly.

View PostDesild, on 26 February 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

I know this might be hard to interiorize but, we have to face the possibilty that there's no actual story to Legendaries other than they were made by Zommoros.
We know at least one has strong lore ties, and many others hold thematic ties to pre-existing stuff in the game. As I pointed out in my first post in this thread. The strongest ties are Eternity, Frostfang, The Flameseeker Prophecies, and Kraitkin.

View PostKonig Des Todes, on 19 February 2013 - 01:33 AM, said:

Twilight/Sunrise/Eternity is wielded by the RIsen High Wizard who guards the gates of Arah. So they may be of Orrian origin.

Frostfang utilizes a Corrupted Skeggox (the axe) for its precursor and Frostfang itself has a draconic appearance; with the ice effects Frostfang seems to be a "furthered corrupted" form of the Corrupted Skeggox (furthermore, it's made from Honor of the Waves tokens which is heavily dealing with Jormag's influence).

The Flameseeker Prophecies holds a New Krytan transcription of Meerak the Shouter's... shouts from post-Searing GW1 Prophecies.

The Moot is, as said, likely a norn thing. The Bifrost too.

Kraitkin is likely something similar to the Blue Orb found during the Apatia storyline (fear that you'd have to cause harm to another), which is heavily implied to be tied to the deep sea dragon and is believed by the krait to be tied to their prophets.

Rodgort likely has ties to fiery charr/a dragon given the shape, but may just be a reference to the GW1 fire elementalist skills which in turn were a reference to Trogdor.

Kamohoali'i Kotaki is clearly named after the elusive artist of grandeur, Kekai Kotaki.

I suspect Kudzu is tied to the sylvari somehow.

Given design, I suspect that Frenzy and Quip hold shared origins.

Based on their looks, The Predator and Incinerator seem to be of charr origins.

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