80 replies to this topic

[B3aT]

at least now they admit that killing harder mobs is useless, giving none or crap loot, after many months after release.
and the fix is ....still no loot or crap loot ..

[escada_assassin]

What they meant with this these notes is that they will do exactly nothing about it, but just saying they will, and everyone will still get the same crappy drops. As soon as they released this info, everyone started talking about DPS and yet my believe is that the problem will still be the same after the update - crappy drops, crappy rewards, no matter the DPS, char, professions, trinkets, boons, whatever. I hope not, but my trust in ANet is just...really low.

[Coren]

Question: they will make.certain areas more rewardable(real word?) ??? Isn't that like counter what they always said? That they want people.to revisit all areas? Why would we do that if some areas are more profitable than others?

Edited by Coren, 19 February 2013 - 07:44 AM.

[Illein]

The problem of damage being the only source of loot determination makes it hard for WvW to convince others to play more support orientated roles because all they see at the end of a raid evening is that they've got 20 Badges while everyone else might have gotten 50-70.

My problem isn't that champions don't drop the blue I want, my problem is that nothing in this game drops anything of relevance or value pretty much. I am not exactly sure how many hours /age I have - but I'd hazard a guess and say it's about ~1800 hours since August and I got exactly 3 exotic drops which weren't account-bound despite doing high lvl fractals, dungeons, temple events, dragons - you name it.

That's a pathetic loot system that doesn't need a little twiddling here and there it needs utter revision.

[omar316]

Illein, on 19 February 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

The problem of damage being the only source of loot determination makes it hard for WvW to convince others to play more support orientated roles because all they see at the end of a raid evening is that they've got 20 Badges while everyone else might have gotten 50-70.

My problem isn't that champions don't drop the blue I want, my problem is that nothing in this game drops anything of relevance or value pretty much. I am not exactly sure how many hours /age I have - but I'd hazard a guess and say it's about ~1800 hours since August and I got exactly 3 exotic drops which weren't account-bound despite doing high lvl fractals, dungeons, temple events, dragons - you name it.

That's a pathetic loot system that doesn't need a little twiddling here and there it needs utter revision.

Meh, I had 1 and that was a torch precursor from the Karka event.

[escada_assassin]

Nah, I don't believe that, you guys are just being mean. Everything's perfect in this game, rewards / loot / drops included.

[Lordkrall]

I love how people just attack ArenaNet when they actually admit that there are problems.
If they don't admit there are problems you attack them because they are blind. When they admit there are problems and trying to fix them you attack them because they haven't already done so.


It would probably be better if ArenaNet did not talk about anything with anyone and never even posted patch notes.
But then again in that case the very same people would complain about ArenaNet not telling us anything.

Clearly they can't win. The only thing that they could do to "win" would be to shut down the game, and I doubt anyone would thank them for that.

[Illein]

Lordkrall, on 19 February 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

I love how people just attack ArenaNet when they actually admit that there are problems.
If they don't admit there are problems you attack them because they are blind. When they admit there are problems and trying to fix them you attack them because they haven't already done so.


It would probably be better if ArenaNet did not talk about anything with anyone and never even posted patch notes.
But then again in that case the very same people would complain about ArenaNet not telling us anything.

Clearly they can't win. The only thing that they could do to "win" would be to shut down the game, and I doubt anyone would thank them for that.

I wonder if you sound this overly defensive too when we're usually on the same side of an argument...food for thought.

This is not tackling the problem, it's coat-brushing over it. The issue isn't that people seek out to kill Champions and get no blue, the issue is that across the entire game - whatever challenge you take on or whatever activitiy you like to do, unless it's standing in the Trading Post crunching numbers - it feels hardly rewarding.

That's an issue. Because people like to be rewarded for the time they put into playing a game (not exclusively, of course) but if it doesn't happen whatsoever, as is the status quo, then people will lose interest, quite frankly.

It helps that now they actually fix the issue that made the poor loot even worse - but unless they review their policy on loot in general, it won't make the game feel more rewarding, period.

And what do I have as a customer from them admitting problems and not acting upon it in a ridiculously long time by now? Initially gets your hopes up, but eventually feels more of a let down, I'd say.

[escada_assassin]

Actually fixing this problem should be pretty easy, so it wouldn't take them months to talk about it, trying to fixing it and actually fixing it. Just next time anyone kills a vet / champion, make it so they wouldn't get a blue or even a lower tier item as a drop or even no drop at all, but start with green items and above. Was that so hard? That would be somewhere in between. Not exotics or rares (or maybe just a chance like 0.0X chance of getting exotic / rare items), but not blues or whites either. Same thing goes for end chests for certain events that take longer to complete or need more people and coordination etc (like the Grenth event or the Bathazar event) - why do they consider as normal or rewarding a handful of blues dropping from the end chest? That is simply beyond me. I, speaking for myself here, stopped doing any of those 2 events because of that exact reason - after 30 mins or more I get 3-4 blues which are worthless. I'm not expecting exotics, a rain of precursors either or even rares too often, but greens and / or above that tier would be nice. What bothers me is that they're not DOING anything, just talk about it, admit the problem and more talk about trying to fix it. Just fix it already! Stop talking, think about what's there to be done and do it. I want it in game, not on paper.

[Nembool]

Illein, on 19 February 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

The problem of damage being the only source of loot determination makes it hard for WvW to convince others to play more support orientated roles because all they see at the end of a raid evening is that they've got 20 Badges while everyone else might have gotten 50-70.

My problem isn't that champions don't drop the blue I want, my problem is that nothing in this game drops anything of relevance or value pretty much. I am not exactly sure how many hours /age I have - but I'd hazard a guess and say it's about ~1800 hours since August and I got exactly 3 exotic drops which weren't account-bound despite doing high lvl fractals, dungeons, temple events, dragons - you name it.

That's a pathetic loot system that doesn't need a little twiddling here and there it needs utter revision.

QFT.

Loot is poor across the board.

Fix please.

[Eon Lilu]

Kurosov, on 19 February 2013 - 02:50 AM, said:

The damage threshold for events is so low that auto attacking alone will net you enough damage to get gold medal, so i wouldn't expect support based builds to suffer.

It's not based solely on just tagging a mob with damage though, it's what percentage of damage you did to that enemy, if say a warrior with berserker did 90% of the damage but your support guardian did only 10%, chances are you will get no loot or worse loot than the warrior.

Alot of us have tested this over and over, we found warrior / high damage aoe classes = alot more loot and alot more higher quality loot.

It seems to be based both upon tagging aswell as what percentage of overall damage you contributed.

Illein, on 19 February 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

My problem isn't that champions don't drop the blue I want, my problem is that nothing in this game drops anything of relevance or value pretty much. I am not exactly sure how many hours /age I have - but I'd hazard a guess and say it's about ~1800 hours since August and I got exactly 3 exotic drops which weren't account-bound despite doing high lvl fractals, dungeons, temple events, dragons - you name it.

That's a pathetic loot system that doesn't need a little twiddling here and there it needs utter revision.

It's been said 1000 times and still they will not increase drops even by a small amount. You can play 1500+ hours and still without grinding the same thing or using your credit card or using the trading outpost for market trading, you will only make a few hundred gold....and only be half way to your legendary. The game is solely made to push players towards the trading outpost, any other way of making money is heavy grind or repeating dungeons hundreds of times but wait you can't because of diminishing returns.

There is no way to get rarer materials on a more accessible basis making buying them the only option. So you can no longer just get the items you need by just "playing the game" anymore which for some makes the game not worth playing at all with such heavy restrictions. The game just becomes nothing but gold grinding which is why you see so many players doing this..."COF FARM $$$$ NO NEWBS WAR / MES ONLY 7 min runs!!11!"

Redhawk2007, on 19 February 2013 - 12:35 AM, said:

Sounds like typical Anet BS. We got the same story for the dye nerf. It's getting old. Look how fast they fixed the unintentional increased drop rate on dyes which most likely occurred as a result of trying to nerf it. Now it's wait until the end of February for the "fix" to crap loot drops. It is unclear whether this will effect drop rates from all mobs or just vets and champions. The pathetic drop rate of pathetic loot occurs across all mobs and in WvW as well. They say it will still possible to kill a vet and get no loot. This is a fix?

They went from admitting that drop rates were "abysmal" to what appeared to be two different stealth nerfs. The end result of a fix should be somewhere above "abysmal" not below it. This looks like the old Blizzard tactic of over-nerfing something then buffing it back up halfway "in response to player input" when in fact they never buff it above what it was before.

Basically that is what I think they are doing also.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 19 February 2013 - 09:00 AM.

[Shiren]

sambombe, on 18 February 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

Loot reward based in damage imput??? WTF Anet, what an epic fail. What about the support professions/build, that keep spamming boons for the party and does not sufficient damage??

I was running a support guardian in WvW the other day and while I really enjoyed what I was doing, it felt really bad to hear about all the loot bags my friends were getting while I was getting nothing. Really bad. We are seeing the meta shift towards "glass cannon" (the word means different things to different classes) warriors that push out insane DPS that kills things faster than anyone else. On top of that, the game isn't rewarding the rest of us who perform all the other roles by giving us a roll on loot unless we are partied up (and do DPS to the target - sometimes mobs will be killed while I'm laying down control fields or reviving a downed player while the warrior swings away). I like playing other classes and other play styles but I hate that so much of this game is stupidly in favour of putting out as much direct damage as possible. It's broken and has been since launch and they can't even admit it's a problem, despite it flying in the face of the concept they pushed that you could play how you wanted to play.

As far as hoping for loot improvements, you can take five minutes to down a champion and get one roll at a more than likely blue item, or you can spend that give minutes mowing down undead at one of the numerous defend events and qualify for 30+ loot chances on mobs, are champions really worth killing then?

Edited by Shiren, 19 February 2013 - 12:18 PM.

[chullster]

Why are people wanting green drops from champions? Greens are just like blues: vendor trash. Should be a rare at least.

GW2 is pretty one dimensional it seems, glass cannons make fastest runs in fractals, dungeons and open world PvE, now it turns out they have higher chances of better loot.

Me and my gf kind of thought along similar lines when her full glass war gets as many rares as my guardian in full MF gear/trinkets/armour and food while farming in Oor. She also got 3 charged lodestones in 90 mins of spark farming too.

This is all just our own feelings, nice for it to be proved correct.

When people whine they want to play tank or support, tell them besides it being a waste of time, it's costing them drops too.

Edited by chullster, 19 February 2013 - 12:38 PM.

[beadnbutter32]

Take your typical zerg on Champion situation, support type builds don't have to be teamed, but just close by other players to give them boons and heals.  The game is registering those acts, Add a branch in the reward decision making to include boons and heals given to allies who did over x% damage to the champion etc.

That would be fair for support builds.

Blues are vendor junk.  According to Anet on a Champ drop your chances were split between white, blue, green, yellow and orange.
Buy claiming to remove whites from the reward calculation, you chances of getting something better than a blue, went from 1 in five to 1 in four, that depends first on whether anything other than beans drop.

[Waar Kijk Je Naar]

And good news for support players.

Quote

The fix we’re implementing should make it much easier for characters who trait/build for support to gain credit for loot drops in particular.

"Share" button doesn't seem to work so here's a link.
http://www.guildwars...for-loot/#post8

Edited by Waar Kijk Je Naar, 19 February 2013 - 03:04 PM.

[P4ndora]

chullster, on 19 February 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

Why are people wanting green drops from champions? Greens are just like blues: vendor trash. Should be a rare at least.

GW2 is pretty one dimensional it seems, glass cannons make fastest runs in fractals, dungeons and open world PvE, now it turns out they have higher chances of better loot.

No thanks, I don't want to see "lfg champion hunting" in LA. Champions are not that 'oh so hard' to kill in group, giving each member guaranteed rare item is wrong. Deflation is as bad as inflation.
Maybe greens would be good, but tbh I don't have problems with blues as minimum, there will be an higher chance to get better loot (at least should be) since most of my loot is either trash or white item now.

Also, higher damage doesn't mean you'll get better loot. Of course you have to deal enough dmg to tag the mobs which might be harder for support characters. Above it's said that they are implementing a system that helps supporters, I wonder how they'll do that though.

[Korra]

Maybe i go back to pve. HA

[tfckmk988]

P4ndora, on 19 February 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

No thanks, I don't want to see "lfg champion hunting" in LA. Champions are not that 'oh so hard' to kill in group, giving each member guaranteed rare item is wrong. Deflation is as bad as inflation.
Maybe greens would be good, but tbh I don't have problems with blues as minimum, there will be an higher chance to get better loot (at least should be) since most of my loot is either trash or white item now.

Also, higher damage doesn't mean you'll get better loot. Of course you have to deal enough dmg to tag the mobs which might be harder for support characters. Above it's said that they are implementing a system that helps supporters, I wonder how they'll do that though.

it might be that they just lower the threshold for tagging as that would probably be the easiest way or they might have a more complicated idea in mind who knows lol

[Bonana]

Korra, on 19 February 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

Maybe i go back to pve. HA

Ain't Nobody got time for that!

[Kovares]

Eon Lilu, on 19 February 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

It's not based solely on just tagging a mob with damage though, it's what percentage of damage you did to that enemy, if say a warrior with berserker did 90% of the damage but your support guardian did only 10%, chances are you will get no loot or worse loot than the warrior.

I don't know where you got that and I'd be highly surprised if it were true. First, judging by as much as we know about the system there is no "worse loot", the mob is either tagged or not tagged, there is no scaling with damage anywhere. Second, even support builds should do *some* damage at least, there simply are not enough support abilities to be using only those full time even if you tried, meaning you will have to deal some damage at some point at least.
If you can make this damage enough to cross the threshold, then you're in and thats it. If the threshold is low enough, I don't really see a problem with that (barring condition builds of course, but thats another matter entirely).

[Kymeric]

SnowmanRelic, on 18 February 2013 - 10:03 PM, said:

While I can see that you must also understand just how easy it is to get a champ to kill, if the minimum is a green and you stay in queensdale for awhile a rare or better wouldnt be hard to come by in return for little work.

I don't run across people doing Champs that often.

If people are going to seriously farm Champs, then it would make sense to pick up a rare appropriate for the area's level after doing so for a significant amount of time.

[Captain Bulldozer]

Lordkrall, on 19 February 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

I love how people just attack ArenaNet when they actually admit that there are problems.
If they don't admit there are problems you attack them because they are blind. When they admit there are problems and trying to fix them you attack them because they haven't already done so.


It would probably be better if ArenaNet did not talk about anything with anyone and never even posted patch notes.
But then again in that case the very same people would complain about ArenaNet not telling us anything.

Clearly they can't win. The only thing that they could do to "win" would be to shut down the game, and I doubt anyone would thank them for that.

I think you miss the point (although I do agree with you that some people will complain no matter what).  IN this case anet has noted the "abysmal" drops months ago, taken a look at the problem with champs/vets and tried to make a fix.  No they admit that there's a problem with champs/vets and claim to be making another fix.... but what they describe as a "fix" is basically how it already is in game.  It is not exciting to ANYONE to hear that, for killing a champ in the future you'll get at least a blue.  I can get dozens of blues without the effort it takes to kill a champion and without needing other players to be there to help kill one.  The issue is that NO ONE past level 10 or so wants to get a blue drop if they can help it (let alone white).  

In GW1 there were, as I'm sure you know, five levels of rarity drop:  White (common), Blue (common with upgrade), Purple (uncommon), Green (max stats but not moddable) and Gold (Rare).  How many people in GW1 ever used white, blue or purple weapons past a certain point?  How many people got excited and felt rewarded for getting them?  What made things work in GW1 was that you got usually several rare drops per hour from just normal play (more in Hard mode).  That felt rewarding, even if the drops themselves were merchant material.  

In GW2, greens are relegated to the status of barely usable (they're not so different from purples in GW1), while anythign higher drops extremely rarely (and often not even at max level). How many rares and exotics do you get in an hour of normal play in GW2?  For myself, I have been playing since BW2 and have received a grand total of 1 actual exotic drop (not counting the Karka Chest) and all the rest I have either gotten from zone completion (none above lvl 78 despite completing all the exotic rewarding zones in the game on multiple chars), karma vendors (these cannot even be salvaged) or dungeon tokens.  That does not feel rewarding at all.  As for rares, I get those slightly more often, but why would anyone get super excited about a rare when they already know that it's not even max (other than hoping to get an ecto or 2 out of it).  

Look at it this way.  When there are literally achievements in game for salvaging as much stuff as you can (500 for this month's monthly achievement)  what that's actually saying is,"We know that basically everything you get is crap, so here's an achievement point and some laurels for also spending money to get rid of that crap".  In my opinion, Anet should have made the drops feel rewarding (exotic  stuff should drop on average once every few hours or so for each player rather than a few times per 1000 hours. They should also get rid of zone completion rewards that are below the level of the zone (I'm looking at your cursed shore) and blues should drop no more than 10% of the time from dungeon chests/champions.  That might actually start to feel rewarding.

[Kymeric]

After thinking about it more, part of the prolem is that it still comes down to RNG.

Kill Champs, get at least a blue and a better chance a better loot isn't going to feel rewarding because it's so obscured by the randomness.  Any given Champ is still going to reward you with vendor trash part of the time, so you aren't going to see a Champ up in game and think, "Better get over there and pitch in".

"Vets have a better chance at higher tier rewards, and Champs will drop at least a blue" is looking at things from the farmer's point of view.  Over several dozen vets and half a dozen Champs, you'll get something worthwhile!  Great for someone who is out looking for a farm, because they can set up a vet/champ route and get better rewards than just killing random mobs.

For the player who is just playing through the game (which seems to be the way ANet wants people to play), exploring the world and jumping into the DEs they encounter, it's not going to feel all that difference.  Do a vet, you might get something good, but you'll probably still come away with whites or blues.  Join a Champ fight, you can remind yourself there's a better chance, but when you get another blue it's going to feel like you just fought an ordinary mob, but with a lot more effort put into it.

[AKGeo]

Hey, we made drops abysmal on purpose to keep people grinding away in our no-grind game. We were hoping people would get over it and just get on with the grind. I guess we were wrong, so now we have to fix it by changing the loot tables, but in order to not appear evil, let's make up a story about an easily-determined discrepancy between two bits of code dealing with the same mechanic: reward for killing something.

Really Anet? 6 months into the game and you still didn't realize that the damage restrictions on both event participation and loot eligibility were different? Even after "fixing" the loot tables on the champions? What a bunch of bull.

Anet's ALREADY given me and my guildmates reason to believe that higher-rate drops have in return been coded to give less chance of a return on ectos/sigils/t6 materials when salvaged. I even accurately predict a very high percentage of the time what I'll get when I salvage a fractal reward account bound exotic drop...which would be zero ecto and one or two tier 5 common materials. Sure, the drop rates for these exotics and rares are much higher, so that would translate into a faster ecto gain rate, right? Newp. I gained ecto at a faster rate before doing fractals by salvaging open-world rare drops or crafted rares. Now I'm lucky if I get even one ecto from an exotic in fractals. These exotics don't drop with runes or sigils, either. Why even make them account-bound? The skins aren't even that good, prompting me to salvage them rather than slag them off on my alts. Why not just give me a couple mithril ore or elder wood logs instead of getting my hopes up.

Edited by AKGeo, 19 February 2013 - 07:08 PM.

[pumpkin pie]

blue for killing a Champ?? come again?  and nothing for killing that irritating Champion Giant at Nageling.

[Minami Kaori]

Captain Bulldozer, on 19 February 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

I think you miss the point (although I do agree with you that some people will complain no matter what).  IN this case anet has noted the "abysmal" drops months ago, taken a look at the problem with champs/vets and tried to make a fix.  No they admit that there's a problem with champs/vets and claim to be making another fix.... but what they describe as a "fix" is basically how it already is in game.  It is not exciting to ANYONE to hear that, for killing a champ in the future you'll get at least a blue.  I can get dozens of blues without the effort it takes to kill a champion and without needing other players to be there to help kill one.  The issue is that NO ONE past level 10 or so wants to get a blue drop if they can help it (let alone white).  

In GW1 there were, as I'm sure you know, five levels of rarity drop:  White (common), Blue (common with upgrade), Purple (uncommon), Green (max stats but not moddable) and Gold (Rare).  How many people in GW1 ever used white, blue or purple weapons past a certain point?  How many people got excited and felt rewarded for getting them?  What made things work in GW1 was that you got usually several rare drops per hour from just normal play (more in Hard mode).  That felt rewarding, even if the drops themselves were merchant material.  

In GW2, greens are relegated to the status of barely usable (they're not so different from purples in GW1), while anythign higher drops extremely rarely (and often not even at max level). How many rares and exotics do you get in an hour of normal play in GW2?  For myself, I have been playing since BW2 and have received a grand total of 1 actual exotic drop (not counting the Karka Chest) and all the rest I have either gotten from zone completion (none above lvl 78 despite completing all the exotic rewarding zones in the game on multiple chars), karma vendors (these cannot even be salvaged) or dungeon tokens.  That does not feel rewarding at all.  As for rares, I get those slightly more often, but why would anyone get super excited about a rare when they already know that it's not even max (other than hoping to get an ecto or 2 out of it).  

Look at it this way.  When there are literally achievements in game for salvaging as much stuff as you can (500 for this month's monthly achievement)  what that's actually saying is,"We know that basically everything you get is crap, so here's an achievement point and some laurels for also spending money to get rid of that crap".  In my opinion, Anet should have made the drops feel rewarding (exotic  stuff should drop on average once every few hours or so for each player rather than a few times per 1000 hours. They should also get rid of zone completion rewards that are below the level of the zone (I'm looking at your cursed shore) and blues should drop no more than 10% of the time from dungeon chests/champions.  That might actually start to feel rewarding.

You sir, are COMPLETELY right!

I've been saying this since beta, and all I get back from blind fanboys is "you should feel rewarded enough just by playing the game!!11!"
Comments like that are so incredibly ignorant, it's not even funny.

Kudos to you for writing it out so nicely here!

[Shroomhead Fred]

Shiren, on 19 February 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

I was running a support guardian in WvW the other day and while I really enjoyed what I was doing, it felt really bad to hear about all the loot bags my friends were getting while I was getting nothing. Really bad. We are seeing the meta shift towards "glass cannon" (the word means different things to different classes) warriors that push out insane DPS that kills things faster than anyone else. On top of that, the game isn't rewarding the rest of us who perform all the other roles by giving us a roll on loot unless we are partied up (and do DPS to the target - sometimes mobs will be killed while I'm laying down control fields or reviving a downed player while the warrior swings away). I like playing other classes and other play styles but I hate that so much of this game is stupidly in favour of putting out as much direct damage as possible. It's broken and has been since launch and they can't even admit it's a problem, despite it flying in the face of the concept they pushed that you could play how you wanted to play.

I feel this should be highlighted as another major problem with loot in the game.

You shouldn't feel gimped loot wise for playing supportive roles, people will eventually get sick of it unless they're the small minority that are fine with receiving nothing for all their efforts.  You could be the game changing player in the group keeping everyone alive, buffing everyone's DPS, a crowd controlling beast, but at the end of it all what are you rewarded with besides your own personal satisfaction?

If ANet want everyone to role a DPS toon, they're going the right way about it.

[Roybe]

I would point out to those trying to compare Gw2 loot drops to Gw1...remember, there were only 20 character levels in that game.  It was always a chance to kill a boss and get nothing to write home about or an imperfect drop.  It took people I knew weeks to get a perfect Elemental Sword on one of the most overfarmed bosses ever.  They would have 30 greens, one or 2 imperfect elemental swords for their efforts, but the one worth the $$$ and effort eluded them.

Now add to this the complexity of 80 levels, the area related to drops, etc. and it becomes apparent that the loot tables are several orders of magnitude bigger than GW1, with far more variety to them, etc.  which leads to leaner picking for the same amount of time put into the game.

[AKGeo]

more variety? The only variety in a large percentage of the weapons in this game are in name only. There was much more variety both in skins AND rarity for those skins in GW1. The only variety we have here is the fact that you can wear armor that drops from enemies. But even then, in any given area, a certain rarity and level range armor is going to be the same skin set, period. you can't get banded heavy armor in anything other than rare, for example. If you want a certain skin in exotic, you need to transmute it. Money into the gem shop. The stats variety is also lacking, both in combinations AND availability with a certain skin. Again, transmutation.

I'm 100% fine with the top-stat items coming with exclusive skins to match. So you KNOW that whomever is wearing that duelist armor has at the very least owned an exotic piece in order to have it, whether it's transmuted down in stats or not. But there should be options for various fine or master skins to be available in rare and exotic as well.

It's painfully obvious what the common denominator here is.

Edited by AKGeo, 20 February 2013 - 01:56 AM.

[Bloggi]

Waar Kijk Je Naar, on 19 February 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

And good news for support players.


"Share" button doesn't seem to work so here's a link.
http://www.guildwars...for-loot/#post8

That's interesting. I'm even more interested to hear about *how* the new system would calculate the contribution made by 'support' builds.