90 replies to this topic

[Peter Wu]

WvW NA T1 Final score gaps between Gold and Silver

Update




------ before ------

Half of matches scores gap are lower than 40K.


Final score gaps percentage.



All data from : http://mos.millenium...atchups#history
datasheet : https://docs.google....N3JIdnhtNTdJZGc

Edited by Peter Wu, 17 April 2013 - 11:27 AM.

[lollasaurus]

I still have nightmares about that Week 41 Matchup

[W Rod]

How time flies.

[CalmLittleBuddy]

Not to be the paranoid one here, but is there some sort of implication coming that goes with this?

[DeagarFA]

Week 49 was excellent.

[chuckles79]

CalmLittleBuddy, on 20 February 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

Not to be the paranoid one here, but is there some sort of implication coming that goes with this?

It implies that SoS was never as stacked as people claimed.

[DeagarFA]

You'd have to assume a lot of things to believe that's what the numbers indicate. One of the key factors is how much the WvW population on a server will fight if the result is more or less decided. SoS generally took it easy once victory was secured (Which is a preferred option because it prevents burnout), but JQ has a much more consistent fighting force that fights in heavy losses or victory.

[Barab]

chuckles79, on 20 February 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

It implies that SoS was never as stacked as people claimed.

Maybe, or that SoS would grab a big lead then sit on it while JQ kept bringing it to reset. If you did a graph of PPT stopping Wednesday morning you would see a vast larger ppt swing in SoS's favor.

[chuckles79]

Barab, on 20 February 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

Maybe, or that SoS would grab a big lead then sit on it while JQ kept bringing it to reset. If you did a graph of PPT stopping Wednesday morning you would see a vast larger ppt swing in SoS's favor.

The ability to bring a serious punch all week long is a sign of a server's overall strength.  It wasn't like SoS made a conscious decision to slack off after Wednesdays; but more like catching our breath after a hard push to make sure JQ or SBI would not make a comeback.

[Barab]

chuckles79, on 20 February 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

The ability to bring a serious punch all week long is a sign of a server's overall strength.  It wasn't like SoS made a conscious decision to slack off after Wednesdays; but more like catching our breath after a hard push to make sure JQ or SBI would not make a comeback.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

[CalmLittleBuddy]

chuckles79, on 20 February 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

The ability to bring a serious punch all week long is a sign of a server's overall strength.  It wasn't like SoS made a conscious decision to slack off after Wednesdays; but more like catching our breath after a hard push to make sure JQ or SBI would not make a comeback.

Actually... they did. They bragged about running training or doing PvE Thursday and Fridays. They even used it as (yet another) excuse when JQ ALMOST made that 30k comback in 2 days. "Yeah, but we stopped playing on Wed and didn't start back up until you got close!"

I've read your shout boxes and your boards (until they were locked, which is smart), so I know for a fack who ON HERE and on OFFICIAL are totally lying about those matches. I saw all the 'lol JQ trying to come back. Wake me up if it gets close!" "Yeah, gonna work on fractals and holiday stuff. It's over!"

and the ever famous:

"Attention Guild X: Please stay out of WvW, except for jump puzzles to get seige. Let's have everyone get plenty of rest for reset in two days."

It was all on you board, bro. All of SBI and JQ were reading it and making cartoons and memes about it. The whol reason JQ even tried that comeback was because we got so pissed at your arrogance that we wanted to make sure you never slept on a lead again. But you still did.

Look, guys, it's a good pr to claim you never did this but HUNDREDS of players read your boards and SAW what you SAID and even made whole thread about how shitty that was of you! Many of thos player came to JQ so that wee could do the exact same thing to you.

So you know what? The joke's on you! You coasted for 6 weeks and it burned you forever after.

So here's to SoS! May your twisting of facts bring to you everything you desrve! It has so far!

[DeagarFA]

chuckles79, on 20 February 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

The ability to bring a serious punch all week long is a sign of a server's overall strength.  It wasn't like SoS made a conscious decision to slack off after Wednesdays; but more like catching our breath after a hard push to make sure JQ or SBI would not make a comeback.

You're either mis-remembering or are poorly informed.

Resting after securing a victory is a sign of discipline and organization and should be lauded.

[Shiren]

I'm beginning to think half of the JQ posters don't even play the game. They just post in on the SM forums to spew bile all over the place and fuel each other's rage induced blindness. The would probably be surprised to hear there is a place called Stonemist in WvW, it's not just a name of a sub-forum. I don't even know what these JQ posters are trying to prove any more, all this shrill denying of the comparative strength of their server to the other tier ones (look at the score) every time the topic comes up.

Every time there is a discussion about the population of JQ post transfers (and for as long as it's the primary factor in why the server wins tier one, it's going to be discussed, it's a fundamental flaw of competitive servers in WvW), or even a discussion about comparative populations of tier one servers and their relevance to the score, the same old JQ posters descend like a flock of shrieking birds.

"JQISNOTSTACKEDNOTASMUCHASSOSWASYOUGUYSWERESOSISFULLOFARROGANTPIGSWHOTOOKITEASYLOLNOWWEWATCHYOULOSECAUSEWEARESTACKEDEVENTHOUGHWEJUSTDENIEDBEINGSTACKEDBUTIDONTCAREABOUTMAKINGSENSEORCONSISTENCYCAUSEICANTSEEPASTMYRAGEAGAINSTSOSTROLOLOLOL!!!!"

The sad part is, no-one, not even the mods, expect or hope for these people to behave in any way other than their trolltastic selves. They flood the tier one thread week after week with their hateful and ingnorant "opinions" and poor sportsmanship (they exists on all servers, but we have the regulars to tier one) and they deprive everyone else of having some kind of intelligent or constructive conversation. The tone is set by these people and if pressure to perform week after week in tier one isn't going to burn people out, reading the threads certainly will.

As far as painting the whole SoS community with the same brush goes, I wouldn't mind betting 80% of the active WvW player base doesn't even read the SoS forums (or this one for that matter). A lot of people who WvW don't do it for the score, they do it cause they want to play their game. Even if some guilds took training days, a handful of guilds do not make a tier one server (and the only guild I know that regularly has training days is TSym).

[Midgets]

Even tho I'm not into zvz much, all it proves the OP knows how to use office?

Whilst i can take women as time travelers, should zvz be brought into it?

Discus ^.^/

[CalmLittleBuddy]

Just because you disagree with a message doesn't mean it's trolling. So no matter how many folks from JQ post, as long as they are not attacking anyone personally or derailing a thread is well within their rights to post.

[Barab]

Shiren, on 20 February 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

I'm beginning to think half of the JQ posters don't even play the game. They just post in on the SM forums to spew bile all over the place and fuel each other's rage induced blindness. The would probably be surprised to hear there is a place called Stonemist in WvW, it's not just a name of a sub-forum. I don't even know what these JQ posters are trying to prove any more, all this shrill denying of the comparative strength of their server to the other tier ones (look at the score) every time the topic comes up.

Every time there is a discussion about the population of JQ post transfers (and for as long as it's the primary factor in why the server wins tier one, it's going to be discussed, it's a fundamental flaw of competitive servers in WvW), or even a discussion about comparative populations of tier one servers and their relevance to the score, the same old JQ posters descend like a flock of shrieking birds.

"JQISNOTSTACKEDNOTASMUCHASSOSWASYOUGUYSWERESOSISFULLOFARROGANTPIGSWHOTOOKITEASYLOLNOWWEWATCHYOULOSECAUSEWEARESTACKEDEVENTHOUGHWEJUSTDENIEDBEINGSTACKEDBUTIDONTCAREABOUTMAKINGSENSEORCONSISTENCYCAUSEICANTSEEPASTMYRAGEAGAINSTSOSTROLOLOLOL!!!!"

The sad part is, no-one, not even the mods, expect or hope for these people to behave in any way other than their trolltastic selves. They flood the tier one thread week after week with their hateful and ingnorant "opinions" and poor sportsmanship (they exists on all servers, but we have the regulars to tier one) and they deprive everyone else of having some kind of intelligent or constructive conversation. The tone is set by these people and if pressure to perform week after week in tier one isn't going to burn people out, reading the threads certainly will.

As far as painting the whole SoS community with the same brush goes, I wouldn't mind betting 80% of the active WvW player base doesn't even read the SoS forums (or this one for that matter). A lot of people who WvW don't do it for the score, they do it cause they want to play their game. Even if some guilds took training days, a handful of guilds do not make a tier one server (and the only guild I know that regularly has training days is TSym).

You mad bro ?

Here is a little tiddy you may not know. JQ has fought servers with greater coverage and numbers as well as held a coverage and numbers advantage over the WvW weeks. It is what it is but it has never changed JQ's approach to WvW.

[chuckles79]

CalmLittleBuddy, on 20 February 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

Actually... they did. They bragged about running training or doing PvE Thursday and Fridays. They even used it as (yet another) excuse when JQ ALMOST made that 30k comback in 2 days. "Yeah, but we stopped playing on Wed and didn't start back up until you got close!"

I've read your shout boxes and your boards (until they were locked, which is smart), so I know for a fack who ON HERE and on OFFICIAL are totally lying about those matches. I saw all the 'lol JQ trying to come back. Wake me up if it gets close!" "Yeah, gonna work on fractals and holiday stuff. It's over!"

and the ever famous:

"Attention Guild X: Please stay out of WvW, except for jump puzzles to get seige. Let's have everyone get plenty of rest for reset in two days."

It was all on you board, bro. All of SBI and JQ were reading it and making cartoons and memes about it. The whol reason JQ even tried that comeback was because we got so pissed at your arrogance that we wanted to make sure you never slept on a lead again. But you still did.

Look, guys, it's a good pr to claim you never did this but HUNDREDS of players read your boards and SAW what you SAID and even made whole thread about how shitty that was of you! Many of thos player came to JQ so that wee could do the exact same thing to you.

So you know what? The joke's on you! You coasted for 6 weeks and it burned you forever after.

So here's to SoS! May your twisting of facts bring to you everything you desrve! It has so far!

Shiren answered this in part of his post.  I wasn't reading our server or it's shoutbox, and my decision to WvW or not is not guided by our server's page.

What I knew was that no one ever took JQ lightly and we knew that our path to victory lied in making really strong pushes on the weekends in order to stay ahead when JQ pushed hard during the week.

Even now the same trend prevails, where JQ gets it's point spreads during the week.

Which goes back to my original point, which shouldn't have gotten ANYONE riled but this is the guru forums after all: The ability of a server to continue to keep pressure on during the week is a factor in it's overall strength.

[EvilSinzGW2]

The smallest percentage of players on a server post they take a break when a lead is secured and apparently the speak for the entire server.  A larger percentage of the JQ posters here are just flat out dumb and post bs but I don't think anyone would/should claim the entire server is dumb as a stump.  
JQ has more active WvW on their server.  Flat out fact.  If 40% took a break on Wednesday they would still win running away.  Not even a topic to discuss.  Other servers are beating a dead horse trying to draw this picture.  JQ will always deny everything because they feel it lessens their accomplishment.

[Krill]

The ratings indicate a similar trend of JQ winning big.

I'm tired of the long rants and pointless bickering. The current balance of power in T1 is not healthy in the long run. Every week since trasfergeddon has been uncompetitive and there's little hope of that changing in the near future. We have people working their asses off trying to change that, but for now, it's reality.

The only upside I see to this is that it may force anet to rethink the viability of week long battles, and perhaps go with more radical changes to the format down the road.

[Jackiepro]

Dont really understand why what it was matters with regards to what it is. If anything at all matters, it is the state of WvW now, and what it will be going forward.

You shouldnt draw any assumptions from that chart, but perhaps it is worth a little thinking through.

[Sulking]

Week 49 looked pretty exciting!

[MrZero]

Tier one has never been competitive. Week 49 may have looked exciting but if I recall, some guilds from all servers took a holiday for well, the holiday.

[Peter Wu]

MrZero, on 21 February 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

Tier one has never been competitive. Week 49 may have looked exciting but if I recall, some guilds from all servers took a holiday for well, the holiday.

Few hours before the Week 49 beginning, PRX left SoS, so I guess no server took that holiday.

About competition : 2012 WeeK 42, 2012 Week 49, 2013 Week 03

[CalmLittleBuddy]

chuckles79, on 20 February 2013 - 09:47 PM, said:

Shiren answered this in part of his post.  I wasn't reading our server or it's shoutbox, and my decision to WvW or not is not guided by our server's page.

What I knew was that no one ever took JQ lightly and we knew that our path to victory lied in making really strong pushes on the weekends in order to stay ahead when JQ pushed hard during the week.

Even now the same trend prevails, where JQ gets it's point spreads during the week.

Which goes back to my original point, which shouldn't have gotten ANYONE riled but this is the guru forums after all: The ability of a server to continue to keep pressure on during the week is a factor in it's overall strength.

Of course points during the week win match ups. Of course JQ always pushes hard during the week. Of course you personally never gave up.

But your server did. Oh yes it did.

Folks on JQ admit, numbers win match ups. It takes no skill to win on the scoreboard. All of our victories are due to greater numbers.

Consequently, all of SoS's victories were due to their greater numbers. Not skill. Not strategy. Numbers.

None of that has changed since day 1.

Charts showing the glory days of close match ups are bogus. There were 3 really close weeks. And they were all around the time that free transfers were about to end.

EDIT to add: Oh and numbers aside, win or lose, I know which players and guilds have skill and could cut it on any server. I also know the ones who are walking Bagde Banks. Then, there are folks like you who I don't know at all. Anyways, skill will out.

Edited by CalmLittleBuddy, 21 February 2013 - 02:10 PM.

[Pathiss]

We should all know by now that coverage in the upper tiers it what wins weekly matchups. There really is no point in arguing about it.

I know we all wish it were different, but unless they change something, this will always be the case.

[Treble]

I thought it was established a long time ago that numbers win WvW.

Oh how the times change. Well, not really, since the arguments are all exactly the same since I left.

When you're winning: "Oh we're very skilled and show good sportsmanship! We are the paragons of server pride and organization! Look at us!"

When you're losing: "X server is only winning because they have huge numbers! Who plays for points anyway? We play to have fun and no one actually looks at the score on our awesome server! X server only knows how to zerg!"

Do people STILL really believe winning WvW is anything but numbers? It seems like just yesterday, quite literally since I quit while SoS was on top, that SoS was bragging about their superior skill and superior guilds, while everyone else was telling them it was numbers on a stacked server. But, hey, now they're doing it to JQ. That's cool too, I guess.

All I know is that JQ has always been competitive, aside from the one week they got pushed into T2. So to cry about their numbers now to try and discredit them is pretty stupid, and this is coming from a longtime rival of theirs.

Edited by Treble, 22 February 2013 - 03:32 PM.

[Krill]

Well, the difference is now we can't go shopping for mass transfers to mix up T1 when it gets stale. I really wouldn't care about the score and losing if not for the fact that protracted periods of outmanned defense are boring and often demoralizing, but if you don't do it, having all your assets reset to paper just makes it that much harder. It doesn't help either when you finally realize that things will probably not be measurably better next week, or the week after, or the week after that...such was the SBI conundrum that ultimately led to their collapse.

[Tyrantscreed]

Treble sums it up perfectly.

In other regards, some people still don't understand why JQ has been the most consistent T1 server ever.

We. Love. WvW. No matter if we are kicking ass or getting our ass kicked, we still fight.

Let’s re-iterate:

• Numbers win.
  
  
• SoS won because they had the numbers and the skill to push hard, and then they took a little break to do PvE or training. No one is taking out the fact that you guys deserved to win, stop with the qq (directed at the forum warriors, not the ones who actually fight hard in WvW)
  
  
• JQ won because we have the numbers and the skill to push hard. Newsflash: SOME WVW’ERS HERE ALSO DO PVE OMG! – We have high number of people around in WvW even if we have the lead, persistency is our strong trait.
  
  
• Guess what? Numbers win.

So what you people need to do is to get your head out of your butt and realize that the trash talkers don’t even make up 1% of the total WvW server population.

P.S. I’m waiting for BG to come back to T1 with their two new guilds. Should be fun!

Edited by Tyrantscreed, 22 February 2013 - 06:08 PM.

[cjskater]

The only answer is JQ loves WvW more than the rest of us.

[Cirus]

DeagarFA, on 20 February 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

You'd have to assume a lot of things to believe that's what the numbers indicate. One of the key factors is how much the WvW population on a server will fight if the result is more or less decided. SoS generally took it easy once victory was secured (Which is a preferred option because it prevents burnout), but JQ has a much more consistent fighting force that fights in heavy losses or victory.

That's kind of true, however most of the matchups weren't decided until the final 24 hours, the rule of thumb was that if we had a 30k+ lead on the final day we could take it off and rest up and prepare for the next reset.

Saying that "ohhhh, none of those scores count cause SoS weren't trying", simply is not true. I know you never said that, but the people liking your post have We'd always try our absolute hardest unless the match up was decided, that rule also applied when we lost the New Years matchup, which explains the 90k blowout.

Trust me, I've been on this server the entire time, the graphs in millenium.org also reflect this.

http://mos.millenium...vers/view/37/10

Note, the gradient of the total points earned for SoS often flattened on the final day, yet is rising steadily for the rest of the week.

If you look at the points history of all the other matchups, they will also indicate the exact same pattern.