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WvW NA T1 Final score gaps between Gold and Silver


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#31 Herr_Gebrechen

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 01:57 PM

View Postchuckles79, on 20 February 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

It implies that SoS was never as stacked as people claimed.

It does? Maybe many of SoS just didn't like to have to fight for their badges. SoS was full in the first week after the patch. There was not a single map where you had outmanned buff - and I'm switching alot between borderlands.

SoS had some problems between specific timezones, but your server didn't lack people for wvw.

#32 DeagarFA

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 03:14 PM

View PostCirus, on 25 February 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

That's kind of true, however most of the matchups weren't decided until the final 24 hours, the rule of thumb was that if we had a 30k+ lead on the final day we could take it off and rest up and prepare for the next reset.

Saying that "ohhhh, none of those scores count cause SoS weren't trying", simply is not true. I know you never said that, but the people liking your post have ;) We'd always try our absolute hardest unless the match up was decided, that rule also applied when we lost the New Years matchup, which explains the 90k blowout.

Trust me, I've been on this server the entire time, the graphs in millenium.org also reflect this.

http://mos.millenium...vers/view/37/10

Note, the gradient of the total points earned for SoS often flattened on the final day, yet is rising steadily for the rest of the week.

If you look at the points history of all the other matchups, they will also indicate the exact same pattern.
I respect your opinion but I am forced to disagree. I think if we had participation/queue size charts they'd show that week49(Close victory for SoS) had much greater participation than week 50(Big victory for SoS) or 52(Huge victory for JQ). And I think if we had participation graphs throughout the week you'd notice a high correlation between close fights and high participation.

As for the 'scores don't count' argument that some people (not you) might propogate, the scores 100% count, but what matters is who wins and how many times they win. The score is just the independent variable that allows you to determine the winner.

#33 Cirus

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 06:04 PM

View PostDeagarFA, on 25 February 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

I respect your opinion but I am forced to disagree. I think if we had participation/queue size charts they'd show that week49(Close victory for SoS) had much greater participation than week 50(Big victory for SoS) or 52(Huge victory for JQ). And I think if we had participation graphs throughout the week you'd notice a high correlation between close fights and high participation.

As for the 'scores don't count' argument that some people (not you) might propogate, the scores 100% count, but what matters is who wins and how many times they win. The score is just the independent variable that allows you to determine the winner.

I agree with that.

However, you'll also find that the participation rates of organized guilds are the same throughout the week as long as the contest isn't yet won. And in SoS's case 90% of the time the outcome of the matchup wasn't safe until the final day.

Remember, we were involved in a matchup against SoR in tier 3 where the match swung by 70k points in 2 days. SoR had a 40k lead on the early Wednesday and we knew how comebacks can happen if you're not careful. We used this lesson on how to defend our leads, and we also used it to come back against SBI when you had the 25k lead in our second week of tier 1 (we all believed we could catch SBI by surprise and demoralize them in the process)

Who wins is the ultimate aim for every server, but the scores don't just tell us who win, but it also tells us how they won. Massive margins suggest uncompetitive matchups, tight margins suggest competitive ones.

Trust me, Sea of Sorrows always tried unless it was Thursday night with a 30k+ lead. If we didn't try, then guilds like MERC wouldn't be complaining of burn out after staying way past their primetime every night for the past 4 months, same goes for our Americans that stayed up past Oceanic primetime.

From the outside you can't see what we have done, but trust me, I was there as a witness every night, I know what we did.

Edited by Cirus, 25 February 2013 - 06:11 PM.


#34 Cirus

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 06:48 PM

View PostCalmLittleBuddy, on 20 February 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

Actually... they did. They bragged about running training or doing PvE Thursday and Fridays. They even used it as (yet another) excuse when JQ ALMOST made that 30k comback in 2 days. "Yeah, but we stopped playing on Wed and didn't start back up until you got close!"

I've read your shout boxes and your boards (until they were locked, which is smart), so I know for a fack who ON HERE and on OFFICIAL are totally lying about those matches. I saw all the 'lol JQ trying to come back. Wake me up if it gets close!" "Yeah, gonna work on fractals and holiday stuff. It's over!"

and the ever famous:

"Attention Guild X: Please stay out of WvW, except for jump puzzles to get seige. Let's have everyone get plenty of rest for reset in two days."

It was all on you board, bro. All of SBI and JQ were reading it and making cartoons and memes about it. The whol reason JQ even tried that comeback was because we got so pissed at your arrogance that we wanted to make sure you never slept on a lead again. But you still did.

Look, guys, it's a good pr to claim you never did this but HUNDREDS of players read your boards and SAW what you SAID and even made whole thread about how shitty that was of you! Many of thos player came to JQ so that wee could do the exact same thing to you.

So you know what? The joke's on you! You coasted for 6 weeks and it burned you forever after.

So here's to SoS! May your twisting of facts bring to you everything you desrve! It has so far!

Hmmm, you say to never take the forums seriously but this reads like an emotion driven post with a tonne of likes.

First off, whoever said  "Yeah, but we stopped playing on Wed and didn't start back up until you got close!" was a complete idiot, I believe they said that on Guru? I slammed his post on here because it was so retarded, we were losing the second half of the week and it wasn't because we weren't trying. JQ almost won on that final day, you had all the momentum and we couldn't do anything to stop you. It was a damn stressful day and most people on SoS actually thought we had it lost as they felt powerless. It was the efforts of a few staying up the entire night that saved it, it was like a never ending nightmare.

I saw all the 'lol JQ trying to come back. Wake me up if it gets close!" "Yeah, gonna work on fractals and holiday stuff. It's over!"

Whatever is said on the shoutboxes was intended for SoS eyes, people joke around, say funny things and they may be at JQ/SBI's expense, don't take it personally. I'm sorry that our arrogance and hubris amongst ourselves offended you.


"Attention Guild X: Please stay out of WvW, except for jump puzzles to get seige. Let's have everyone get plenty of rest for reset in two days."

It is well documented that when the result is decided (PvE Thursday), we take it easy and have some fun and recharge for the next reset, don't see how this is offensive.

the whol reason JQ even tried that comeback was because we got so pissed at your arrogance that we wanted to make sure you never slept on a lead again. But you still did.

I'm glad we gave you the motivation, that produced the closest and arguably the most epic tier 1 matchup of all time.


So you know what? The joke's on you! You coasted for 6 weeks and it burned you forever after.
So here's to SoS! May your twisting of facts bring to you everything you desrve! It has so far!


Geez, harsh words to a server on it's death bed. There must be some deep psychological issues that we must have inflicted upon you guys, I'm sorry.

The people on the Sea of Sorrows have had the time of their gaming lives, it was a wonderful place to be and we worked hard to achieve what we did. We dethroned the most successful post HoD server (SBI) at it's own game on the battlefield. Off the battlefield they shit talked us, bullied us, 2v1'd us, infiltrated us with spies and trolls (this never happened in tier 2 and below)  and we kept quiet and made it blow up in their faces, the reaction of these guys losing are some of the funniest things I've ever seen. We even have some of their posts framed, Kelo is one that stands out :D The lists of excuses they said were even funnier. (The ONLY reason you win is because of the PvE event, the ONLY reason you win is because of PRX) :D

We created the most successful server in NA GW2 history, and did it by working hard and reaped the rewards. There were a tonne of factors involved, and even the guys such as PRX and the often scapegoated TSym played a big role in achieving this. I thank everyone involved!

Thanks for the good times everyone on SoS! It was well worth it!

As for Jade Quarry, you guys really improved yourselves and adapted to SoS while we were in tier 1, however it's a shame that the people behind the scenes on your server have resorted to nasty and toxic tactics. The lies, the rumours, the spies that you plant in every corner of our community. You took the easy way to victory by lying about your coverage and tricking as many people as you could to stacking on your server to "equal sos's coverage", even when it was clear that you had more than enough. You're already finding out how hollow your achievements are. Now that you're out of enemies, it won't be long before you start turning on each other, JQ style. Enjoy your zero contest WvWvW!

Edited by Cirus, 25 February 2013 - 07:02 PM.


#35 Kam8T88

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:08 PM

View PostBarab, on 20 February 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

Maybe, or that SoS would grab a big lead then sit on it while JQ kept bringing it to reset. If you did a graph of PPT stopping Wednesday morning you would see a vast larger ppt swing in SoS's favor.


You're saying SoS would take a break once victory was assured, while JQ kept fighting the whole time and still lost? That had to burn.

Yes, I remember guild mates calculating when we've mathematically won so we could do other things, so what? We're at fault for wanting to maintain server status AND wanting to do more than just WvW?

I'm not entirely convinced this isn't an indicator of which server was more stacked at their peak. But there's not enough information here to say either way. That's the problem with only presenting 1 statistic. Correlation does not imply causation. The problem is the person gathered only this information thinking it means something. This is the kind of stuff that drives statisticians nuts.

So ultimately, (like so many guru WvW threads) this is useless for anything other than a laugh. Troll away.

Edited by Kam8T88, 25 February 2013 - 07:10 PM.


#36 CalmLittleBuddy

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:16 PM

View PostCirus, on 25 February 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

Hmmm, you say to never take the forums seriously but this reads like an emotion driven post with a tonne of likes.

First off, whoever said  "Yeah, but we stopped playing on Wed and didn't start back up until you got close!" was a complete idiot, I believe they said that on Guru? I slammed his post on here because it was so retarded, we were losing the second half of the week and it wasn't because we weren't trying. JQ almost won on that final day, you had all the momentum and we couldn't do anything to stop you. It was a damn stressful day and most people on SoS actually thought we had it lost as they felt powerless. It was the efforts of a few staying up the entire night that saved it, it was like a never ending nightmare.

I saw all the 'lol JQ trying to come back. Wake me up if it gets close!" "Yeah, gonna work on fractals and holiday stuff. It's over!"

Whatever is said on the shoutboxes was intended for SoS eyes, people joke around, say funny things and they may be at JQ/SBI's expense, don't take it personally. I'm sorry that our arrogance and hubris amongst ourselves offended you.


"Attention Guild X: Please stay out of WvW, except for jump puzzles to get seige. Let's have everyone get plenty of rest for reset in two days."

It is well documented that when the result is decided (PvE Thursday), we take it easy and have some fun and recharge for the next reset, don't see how this is offensive.

the whol reason JQ even tried that comeback was because we got so pissed at your arrogance that we wanted to make sure you never slept on a lead again. But you still did.

I'm glad we gave you the motivation, that produced the closest and arguably the most epic tier 1 matchup of all time.


So you know what? The joke's on you! You coasted for 6 weeks and it burned you forever after.
So here's to SoS! May your twisting of facts bring to you everything you desrve! It has so far!


Geez, harsh words to a server on it's death bed. There must be some deep psychological issues that we must have inflicted upon you guys, I'm sorry.

The people on the Sea of Sorrows have had the time of gaming their lives, it was a wonderful place to be and we worked hard to achieve what we did. We dethroned the most successful post HoD server at it's own game on the battlefield. Off the battlefield they shit talked us, bullied us, 2v1'd us, infiltrated us with spies and trolls (this never happened in tier 2 and below)  and we kept quiet and made it blow up in their faces, the reaction of these guys losing are some of the funniest things I've ever seen. We even have some of their posts framed, Kelo is one that stands out :D The lists of excuses they were even funnier. (The ONLY reason you win is because of the PvE event, the ONLY reason you win is because of PRX) :D

We created the most successful server in NA GW2 history, and did it by working hard and reaped the rewards. There were a tonne of factors involved, and even the guys such as PRX and the often scapegoated TSym played a big role in achieving this.

Thanks for the good times everyone on SoS! It was well worth it!

As for Jade Quarry, you guys really improved yourselves and adapted to SoS while we were in tier 1, however it's a shame that the people behind the scenes on your server are very nasty and toxic, the lies, the rumours, the spies that you plant in every corner of our community. You took the easy way to victory by lying about your coverage and tricking as many people as you could to stacking on your server to "equal sos's covergae". You're already finding out how hollow your achievements are. Now that you're out of enemies, it won't be long before you start turning on each other, JQ style. Enjoy your zero contest WvWvW!

Has there ever been a post I've made you didn't respond to?

These achievements don't feel hollow. Not to me. And your server's not 'dying. See, this is the SoS attitude we all have had to suffer through. You are still in T1. Even if you drop, it will only be to T2.

Blackgate didn't roll over and die. SBI died, but NEVER acted like the victim. SoR barely says a word. They just keep fighting on.

And you might notice I rarely have a thing to say that's negative towards them. That's because they play hard even when they're losing. Even when they have NO CHANCE of winning.

I'm starting to feel badd for Agg, FoE, Merc et al who had to endure all the crap that came after the flag waving stopped. I feel bad for the average players on your server who did everything they were asked, only to be left holding the bag on losing weeks. I feel bad that good people waited a few weeks to long and now have to spend money just to get away from SoS.

I spent a lot of time on your forums when they were open. I didn't post often. Maybe 1 or 2 tiimes. I used to hang at other server's boards too, to gte to know the players, so I saw what it was like. Not just the shoutbox either. I made many friends aon all the boards I've gone to. I get along with some folks on SoS and some that are leaving SoS.

You? I don't know you. Yet somehow you respond to every post I make as if I'd been talking directly to you. I've even tried a little humor with you. No. Guess not.

Well, soon you will be busy in the T2 threads and this strange relationship of yours will stop (I hope). Until then, I'll still be out there having fun, revelling in these hollow achievments in a meaningless game, and thinking of oh so clever things to post on all the forums to anger folks I don't even know...

Or, I'll go have a soda.

Edited by CalmLittleBuddy, 25 February 2013 - 07:17 PM.


#37 Torick

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 08:52 PM

View PostCirus, on 25 February 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

We created the most successful server in NA GW2 history, and did it by working hard and reaped the rewards. There were a tonne of factors involved, and even the guys such as PRX and the often scapegoated TSym played a big role in achieving this. I thank everyone involved!

Wasn't HoD the most successful server in NA GW2 history?

#38 Treble

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:11 PM

View PostCirus, on 25 February 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

We created the most successful server in NA GW2 history
Here we have an example of someone who hasn't been around for very long, has a warped sense of memory, or simply doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

Maybe all 3.

Edited by Treble, 25 February 2013 - 09:13 PM.


#39 MrZero

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:35 PM

View PostTreble, on 25 February 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

Here we have an example of someone who hasn't been around for very long, has a warped sense of memory, or simply doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

Maybe all 3.

Irving......


Seriously, they are the same people that can't fathom that SBI really lost as many people as they did to fractals.

#40 Global_GW2

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 12:51 AM

View PostTreble, on 25 February 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

Here we have an example of someone who hasn't been around for very long, has a warped sense of memory, or simply doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

Maybe all 3.

We (well I) missed you around here Treble. Are you playing again or just lurking the forums?

#41 Treble

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 01:05 AM

View PostGlobal_GW2, on 26 February 2013 - 12:51 AM, said:

We (well I) missed you around here Treble. Are you playing again or just lurking the forums?
Just lurking. Combination of being too ridiculously busy to play anything for more than an hour a week, and waiting for something to lure me back into the game. Hopefully something WvW-related, since I couldn't care less about PVE in this game.

Though, I did get into a certain closed beta, of which I was also in the alpha and enjoyed, where I'll be getting my PVE fix, assuming I get any time at all to play.

But I'll be around. <3

#42 Cirus

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 03:03 AM

CalmLittleBuddy,

Your humour was never lost on me and you made me laugh a lot of times, liking your posts was an indication of this. Sadly the mods don't take kindly to humour in these forums and like to remove anything funny that doesn't "add to the discussion" :P

This is the first time I've responded to you in a quite a while, I responded in this case because you were sticking the boot into my server and sneering at it's collapse, your post was directed to everyone on this server and that includes me.


Treble,

You sound like someone that hasn't been around for the last 3 months. I've been playing since release and I'm fully aware of HoD and it's achievements, it's regarded as the most highly organized and powerful server to have existed in the game, never to be repeated. However it also lasted the shortest period of time, they got bored of their success quickly and they broke up. Sea of Sorrows won for 15 weeks (105 days!)in a row. Comparing HoD to SoS is like comparing Alexander the Great to the Roman Empire.

Edited by Cirus, 26 February 2013 - 03:20 AM.


#43 Shiren

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 03:45 AM

View PostTreble, on 25 February 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

Here we have an example of someone who hasn't been around for very long, has a warped sense of memory, or simply doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

Maybe all 3.

OK this thread is full of trolling and people who are only interested in tearing down other servers so I don't plan to stay for long but I'd like to add some perspective.

Guild Wars 2 was released on August the 28th. The website http://mos.millenium.org has been tracking the competition since (I believe) the 22nd of September. According to their tracking of NA tier placements (http://mos.millenium...ps/evolution/na), even if you assume HoD won every "week" (most of HoD wins were before the weekly matches) that's a maximum of I believe five or six weeks in first place for HoD before they disbanded. I could be wrong on this, but SoS has won first place nine times. That's three more times more than the maximum for HoD according to my maths (I am bad at maths but I believe the information has enough leeway to give SoS the edge, even if I am off a bit). I don't believe my numbers are the same as Cirus (I only counter tier one wins, I had trouble determining the number of weeks HoD won in tier one) but to my understanding, SoS held the server together in first place a lot longer than HoD. With the exception of one week, they also did it consecutively.

Of course it all comes down to what you define success as (subjective). You could say JQ has been in tier one the longest, it's not the same as winning, but it's still something other servers have been able to do. Most people consider first place more successfuly than constantly getting second or third but it's still an accomplishment. You could say SoS has won in tier one for the longest, even if they are to follow the same fate as HoD. You could say HoD won in tier one at the height of the game's launch, when numbers were the greatest (although the meta was also yet to be established and players were still learning to play the game). This thread isn't about success, but trolling someone for having a "short memory" when the numbers don't support your point of view isn't creating a very healthy forum dicussion regardless.

@Calm, it's incredibly ironic to me that you complain about suffering through the SoS attitude of the server is dieing and then say you feel sorry for the guilds leaving the server when those guilds are leading the charge on the attitude that the server is dieing. I've got to stop reading your posts because they rarely make sense and often will contradict themselves like this one. Maybe you truly don't know what's going on with SoS right now and you are posting with ignorance but the actual situation is very different from what you seem to think it is.

Edited by Shiren, 26 February 2013 - 03:53 AM.


#44 Treble

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 03:48 AM

View PostCirus, on 26 February 2013 - 03:03 AM, said:

Treble,

You sound like someone that hasn't been around for the last 3 months. I've been playing since release and I'm fully aware of HoD and it's achievements, it's regarded as the most highly organized and powerful server to have existed in the game, never to be repeated. However it also lasted the shortest period of time, they got bored of their success quickly and they broke up. Sea of Sorrows won for 15 weeks (105 days!)in a row. Comparing HoD to SoS is like comparing Alexander the Great to the Roman Empire.
Umm... SoS only won T1 9 weeks in a row. You guys only started winning after PRX, a huge HoD guild, along with a bunch of followers from both HoD and SoR, and an EU alliance IIRC, filled your vacant time slots. 2 of those weeks were JQ rebuilding after the whole MMAC shenanigans (and an entire IP ban on their massive Chinese population). Regardless, basically all those matches were fairly close.

Now take HoD, which led from game release, to about Week 39, and it wasn't even close. You can mention 1-day matches etc., but at the end of the day, no one came close to beating HoD even after 1-week matches started. Look what happened when you guys lost PRX. Funny how the "greatest server in NA WvW history" is so dependent on a guild from the server you're claiming to have been better than.

Yeah, you're trippin' bud. Pretty sure everyone here who knows their shit, and doesn't have the memory capacity of a gnat, agrees with me.

Edited by Treble, 26 February 2013 - 03:55 AM.


#45 MrZero

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 04:05 AM

Dear everyone,




    <3, SoS

#46 Cirus

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 04:09 AM

Treble, get your reading glasses out buddy, I didn't say SoS won tier 1 for 15 weeks in a row, I said they won for 15 weeks in a row.

Look what happened after we lost PRX? We won tier 1 for 6 weeks in a row, including our biggest t1 winning margin.

HoD's 1 day qualifiers and their undefeated streak are perfectly valid wins, as was SoS's winning streak.

#47 Shiren

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 04:24 AM

View PostTreble, on 26 February 2013 - 03:48 AM, said:

Umm... SoS only won T1 9 weeks in a row. You guys only started winning after PRX, a huge HoD guild, along with a bunch of followers from both HoD and SoR, and an EU alliance IIRC, filled your vacant time slots. 2 of those weeks were JQ rebuilding after the whole MMAC shenanigans (and an entire IP ban on their massive Chinese population). Regardless, basically all those matches were fairly close.

Now take HoD, which led from game release, to about Week 39, and it wasn't even close. You can mention 1-day matches etc., but at the end of the day, no one came close to beating HoD even after 1-week matches started. Look what happened when you guys lost PRX. Funny how the "greatest server in NA WvW history" is so dependent on a guild from the server you're claiming to have been better than.

Yeah, you're trippin' bud. Pretty sure everyone here who knows their shit, and doesn't have the memory capacity of a gnat, agrees with me.

Can you please try to qualify your posts with numbers and figures, or at least try to be clear on what you are saying. After the guild you mentioned left, SoS continued to win. Your statement that the server was dependant on one guild is completely baseless and completely disproved by the score afterwards.

As I said before, week 39 (which references the week of the year, not the number of weeks the matches have been going for) is not that long after launch. You seem to have ignored all the information (and references) I've made available in my post and continued to post nonsense. The collection of guilds and coverage you've attributed the rise in the ranks of SoS to is also far from reality. The only person who seems to have a false memory around here is you. I hope the disucssion outside of tier one isn't as inane as this one.

#48 Treble

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 04:51 AM

View PostShiren, on 26 February 2013 - 04:24 AM, said:



Can you please try to qualify your posts with numbers and figures, or at least try to be clear on what you are saying. After the guild you mentioned left, SoS continued to win. Your statement that the server was dependant on one guild is completely baseless and completely disproved by the score afterwards.

As I said before, week 39 (which references the week of the year, not the number of weeks the matches have been going for) is not that long after launch. You seem to have ignored all the information (and references) I've made available in my post and continued to post nonsense. The collection of guilds and coverage you've attributed the rise in the ranks of SoS to is also far from reality. The only person who seems to have a false memory around here is you. I hope the disucssion outside of tier one isn't as inane as this one.
I'm in class atm, so I'm rushing my responses. I'll provide numbers in a bit. But I forgot PRX left SoS around the same time WM left SBI (and SBI was already suffering from attendance problems since Halloween), so the impact of that move was nowhere near what it could have been. Not sure what was happening with JQ around that time, but I recall them rebuilding and also having population problems (we still beat them despite the our low pop).

Compare that to HoD, who fought T1 from Day 1. The best servers at the time were HoD, JQ, NS, SBI, and BG. We ALL had full coverage then, especially NS.

Name a guild on SoS that is the cause of its rise to power, if not for PRX (HoD), Tsym and its allies (Dragonbrand), VOTF (IoJ?), which firmly cemented you guys in T1.

#49 Super Sic

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 05:21 AM

View PostTreble, on 26 February 2013 - 04:51 AM, said:

I'm in class atm, so I'm rushing my responses. I'll provide numbers in a bit. But I forgot PRX left SoS around the same time WM left SBI (and SBI was already suffering from attendance problems since Halloween), so the impact of that move was nowhere near what it could have been. Not sure what was happening with JQ around that time, but I recall them rebuilding and also having population problems (we still beat them despite the our low pop).

Compare that to HoD, who fought T1 from Day 1. The best servers at the time were HoD, JQ, NS, SBI, and BG. We ALL had full coverage then, especially NS.

Name a guild on SoS that is the cause of its rise to power, if not for PRX (HoD), Tsym and its allies (Dragonbrand), VOTF (IoJ?), which firmly cemented you guys in T1.

VotF joined SoS on January 23. Which was also the last week that SoS won. PRX left SoS on December 7 and WM left SBI on December 25.

#50 Kam8T88

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 05:25 AM

I'd love to see one of these magic guilds I keep hearing about that are the sole reason x or y server rise to the top.

#51 Shiren

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 05:28 AM

View PostTreble, on 26 February 2013 - 04:51 AM, said:

Name a guild on SoS that is the cause of its rise to power, if not for PRX (HoD), Tsym and its allies (Dragonbrand), VOTF (IoJ?), which firmly cemented you guys in T1.

View PostTreble, on 26 February 2013 - 03:48 AM, said:

You guys only started winning after PRX, a huge HoD guild, along with a bunch of followers from both HoD and SoR, and an EU alliance IIRC, filled your vacant time slots.

These two quotes look different even though they are from you making the same point about the same thing. I wasn't aware of the precise origin of many of the transfers I knew that TSym and its allies were core parts of it, the HoD guild you mention as essential is actually the only one proven to be irrelevant to the continued success of SoS (SoS continued to win tier one for several weeks without them, so calling them essential to continued success is fundamentally disproven). If we are talking pure rise in the ranks, transfers are the obvious difference between where SoS started rising and when they were the top, but if you are talking success of the server, you've missed the biggest and most important factor (and why SoS received so many transfers in the first place - many unguilded who saw it as the next power server) and that's the oceanic coverage. The huge oceanic presence is the backbone that SoS was built on and it's where the server has always been the most competitive. Not to mention after the intial wave of transfers, SoS recieved many more on their rise to the top, and even once they got to the top. Most people don't know the names of these guilds because, and this is the real hillarious thing about WvW, they are native to SoS, they didn't gain fame by posting in tier one threads and server hoping to construct some carefully managed reputation of being a tier one guild. People don't know about them because they didn't transfer to gain success (so they aren't seen as factors which changed the server, they were an innner strength that was always there) and they didn't play during the NA prime time. The reputation of a guild is usually built on transferring (PRX does it, Agg and FoE do it, ND does it, TSym did it). Some transfer more than others and thus have more tier one wins (they leave before they lose and they go to a location they know will win through careful research) but transferring is the fastest way to make a name for yourself and to always be around (where would PRX, TSym, Agg and FoE be today if they had never transferred?). People seem to forget that transfers go to servers that already have strength on them.

I could be really wrong on this (and I apologise to VotF if I am) but my understanding is that VotF has been on SoS for a very short period of time and had nothing to do with the rise in the ranks, and very little to do with the wins. My understanding is they were recruited shortly before the end of transfers.

The rest of your posts are splitting hairs about victory (WM left when PRX left - I'm not sure if those times even match up as evenly as you might believe, WM wasn't JQ, nor did PRX keep them in check because PRX is NA and WM was Oceanic/SEA a time zone we were already winning) and that kind of weasley arguing is a simple waste of time. I'm sick of reading people talking about events which impacted all servers - Halloween (SoS had Halloween too), Southsun Coves/FotM (we have those on our server too), New Years, population/morale problems (overtime was the norm on SoS, coverage outside oceanic wasn't natural, people worked for it). This forum pissing conests is worth less than an actual pissing contest and this particular discussion has little to nothing to do with the thread topic.

If you're going to aggressively call out someone for having a short memory and imply they are misinformed, it's best to counter them with actual information, not a bunch of antagonising and unfounded statements. If you have nothing informed to post, perhaps wait until you have time to become informed before you post. If you want to contest success, define success, otherwise you are going to be arguing that HoD is the best apple and your opponent is arguing that SoS is the best orange. Which is better out of apples and oranges is also a fairly pointless argument (they are both different) but at least you will be on the same page (which will still be ironic because the thread is neither about apple or oranges, it's about fluffy pillows and the apples and organses discussion is certainly off topic). I think I've wasted enough time on this forum today.

Edited by Shiren, 26 February 2013 - 05:34 AM.


#52 Treble

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 06:07 AM

Head start was on August 25, 2012.

HoD was at the top of that bracket, having already beaten SBI, JQ, NS, and BG (BG so bad that people started abandoning ship already). That was 21 resets worth of extremely competitive (Read: completely full queues and no chance for population disparity to set in) matches. Note: they weren't close. Even Northern Shiverpeaks at its prime, which had Ascension and Ruin, plus all the little zergling Tales of Tyria fanboys -- I'm tempted to say NS outnumbered HoD at the time.

This lasted until September 14, 2012, which is when 1-week matches began

http://www.guildwars...d-vs-sbi-vs-jq/

They held 1st place, never coming close to defeat, until Titan disbanded on the week of October 6, 2012.

The original statement was that SoS won 15 in a row, and that it's the best server in the history of NA. When did SoS start consistently winning? Was it before, or after TA disbanded? All signs point to October 20, 2012. That's when you guys started winning matches. I recall the Dragonbrand guilds started moving into SoS as early as October 12. I'm looking at the guilds on SoS and almost none of those that are making the headlines are original SoS guilds. DiE and PRX were from HoD, Tsym and the other Dragonbrand guilds (Sexy and MERC I think were from Dragonbrand too, but correct me if I'm wrong -- I just know Tsym brought other guilds with them that formed the original backbone of Dragonbrand's WvW players), FoE (used to be in Eredon Terrace and were the only guild on that server who actually consistently fought hard), and apparently DEYS alliance more recently, are constantly being mentioned.

So, how is it that SoS was somehow winning through your Oceanics, when you guys were basically nonfactors until you got full coverage (surprise surprise)? I'll have to dig up threads during (I think) Week 38 when SoS first got into T1. I'm pretty sure I remember your Oceanics being fairly even with SBI's (JQ's was suffering due to that weird Chinese IP ban), but your EU and NA were demolishing us. Hopefully the score updates are still there.

So, yes, you guys acquired some great guilds and held the lead in T1. My point is that you guys did it with numbers from other servers, just like some of you are now accusing JQ of having done. The difference is that JQ was already in T1 well before those transfers ever came in.

In fact, funny enough, I think JQ is actually the only T1 server that didn't acquire any significant Titan Alliance presence in their push to first place. Blackgate got ELTE, TRF, ULTD, GIN, and RMA (I think) when they made the push into T1. SBI (despite already being a perennial T1 server) got SYN, NYS, and Yaki when we made the push to first place in T1. SoS got DiE and PRX when you guys made the push to T1 and first place. Interesting, isn't it?

Edited by Treble, 26 February 2013 - 06:23 AM.


#53 Stei

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 06:24 AM

View PostTreble, on 26 February 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

Head start was on August 25, 2012.

HoD was at the top of that bracket, having already beaten SBI, JQ, NS, and BG (BG so bad that people started abandoning ship already). That was 21 resets worth of extremely competitive (Read: completely full queues and no chance for population disparity to set in) matches. Note: they weren't close. Even Northern Shiverpeaks at its prime, which had Ascension and Ruin, plus all the little zergling Tales of Tyria fanboys -- I'm tempted to say NS outnumbered HoD at the time.

This lasted until September 14, 2012, which is when 1-week matches began

http://www.guildwars...d-vs-sbi-vs-jq/

They held 1st place, never coming close to defeat, until Titan disbanded on the week of October 6, 2012.

The original statement was that SoS won 15 in a row, and that it's the best server in the history of NA. When did SoS start consistently winning? Was it before, or after TA disbanded? All signs point to October 20, 2012. That's when you guys started winning matches. I recall the Dragonbrand guilds started moving into SoS as early as October 12. I'm looking at the guilds on SoS and almost none of those that are making the headlines are original SoS guilds. DiE and PRX were from HoD, Tsym and the other Dragonbrand guilds (Sexy and MERC I think were from Dragonbrand too, but correct me if I'm wrong -- I just know Tsym brought other guilds with them that formed the original backbone of Dragonbrand's WvW players), FoE (used to be in Eredon Terrace and were the only guild on that server who actually consistently fought hard), and apparently DEYS alliance more recently, are constantly being mentioned.

So, how is it that SoS was somehow winning through your Oceanics, when you guys were basically nonfactors until you got full coverage (surprise surprise)? I'll have to dig up threads during (I think) Week 38 when SoS first got into T1. I'm pretty sure I remember your Oceanics being fairly even with SBI's (JQ's was suffering due to that weird Chinese IP ban), but your EU and NA were demolishing us. Hopefully the score updates are still there.

So, yes, you guys acquired some great guilds and held the lead in T1. My point is that you guys did it with numbers from other servers, just like some of you are now accusing JQ of having done. The difference is that JQ was already in T1 well before those transfers ever came in.
Our SEA coverage was hurting not because of IP ban's exactly but Internet restrictions which forced many people to use Proxy networks (which a lot of gold farmers etc used which put them at an increased risk because most of Anet's ban's are based on ip). Thus it put us in a tough spot and only recently have we started to see the number shift back to normal levels due to one reason or another.

#54 Jackiepro

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:48 AM

View PostTreble, on 26 February 2013 - 04:51 AM, said:

Name a guild on SoS that is the cause of its rise to power, if not for PRX (HoD), Tsym and its allies (Dragonbrand), VOTF (IoJ?), which firmly cemented you guys in T1.

Nope. We have achieved a lot of things, but taking SoS into T1 was not one of them, cant take credit for things we did not do.

As for the conversation, its a bit circular at this point. Guilds help servers. Guilds also transfer. This causes shifts in power to keep the game dynamic. Proud server natives point fingers but then request for transfers because magically, those who pick their server are above all the low lifes who transferred to the enemy server.

Anyways JQ has more players now, this has caused T1 to not be as competitive anymore. In order to rectify the situation players have done the only thing they can do, transfer to another server who with their coverage is capable of competing against JQ.

Why does it matter which server was the best in the game? Arenanet themselves has said, as any player will agree, WvW is not and never will be a balanced game format. So again, where exactly is the pride in boasting about being the best at an unbalanced game format? Because I for one am missing the point.

You are, and always will be a fool to sit and talk about "my server is awsumz cause we won t1 xx times". As HoD won with imbalance and after it SBI and after it SoS and now JQ, rarely has anybody *ever* outskilled the opponent, so nothing to boast about.

Edited by Jackiepro, 26 February 2013 - 07:50 AM.


#55 J E R I C O

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:04 AM

View PostJackiepro, on 26 February 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

Nope. We have achieved a lot of things, but taking SoS into T1 was not one of them, cant take credit for things we did not do.

As for the conversation, its a bit circular at this point. Guilds help servers. Guilds also transfer. This causes shifts in power to keep the game dynamic. Proud server natives point fingers but then request for transfers because magically, those who pick their server are above all the low lifes who transferred to the enemy server.

Anyways JQ has more players now, this has caused T1 to not be as competitive anymore. In order to rectify the situation players have done the only thing they can do, transfer to another server who with their coverage is capable of competing against JQ.

Why does it matter which server was the best in the game? Arenanet themselves has said, as any player will agree, WvW is not and never will be a balanced game format. So again, where exactly is the pride in boasting about being the best at an unbalanced game format? Because I for one am missing the point.

You are, and always will be a fool to sit and talk about "my server is awsumz cause we won t1 xx times". As HoD won with imbalance and after it SBI and after it SoS and now JQ, rarely has anybody *ever* outskilled the opponent, so nothing to boast about.

Well said, young padawan.

#56 CalmLittleBuddy

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 02:15 PM

Thread begins with vaguely suggestive chart showing point differentials, probably intended to show how JQ 'ruined the game', and that 'WvW will never be competative again.'

Then somehow the thread becomes a discussion of which server was more dominant, HoD or SoS.

So, basically, SoS is the most dominant server ever unless we're trying to prove the point that JQ has ruined competition. Even though HoD never lost. Even though SoS won 15 weeks in a row.

Boy don't we all miss the good old days when first place was up for grabs?

EDIT to add: Cirus, my apologies for pushing and shoving. I just think the whole thread is a joke from the start. I never begrudged SoS for winning. I took my hat off many a time and said GG. The reason I bang on SoS is only two of your regulars ever gave us a nod for any win we've gotten (without attaching a laundry list of reasons why it really had nothing to do with JQ winning so much as circumstances). I understand that numbers win matches, but I said GG to you guys 8 weeks running and never put a 'but...' on it. It has been disappointing that only Blackgate did so when JQ won. Nothing on you, mate. All my own perception of it. Nothing personal towards you specifically.

Edited by CalmLittleBuddy, 26 February 2013 - 02:23 PM.


#57 Cirus

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 05:22 PM

All good mate, I wish you all the best! :)

#58 Kam8T88

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:43 PM

View PostJackiepro, on 26 February 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:


Anyways JQ has more players now, this has caused T1 to not be as competitive anymore. In order to rectify the situation players have done the only thing they can do, transfer to another server who with their coverage is capable of competing against JQ.


Does blackgate have the numbers to compete with JQ? Wouldn't they be climbing the ranks faster if they did? I think the bandwagon crowd is in for a rude awakening when they get to T1. Or maybe you're referring to another server?

#59 Global_GW2

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:07 PM

View PostKam8T88, on 26 February 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

Does blackgate have the numbers to compete with JQ? Wouldn't they be climbing the ranks faster if they did? I think the bandwagon crowd is in for a rude awakening when they get to T1. Or maybe you're referring to another server?

I'm sure Jackie is referring to BG, but climb the ranks faster? I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Either way, whether we will have the numbers or not to compete with JQ is impossible to know until we face them.

#60 Kam8T88

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:05 AM

View PostGlobal_GW2, on 26 February 2013 - 10:07 PM, said:

I'm sure Jackie is referring to BG, but climb the ranks faster? I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Either way, whether we will have the numbers or not to compete with JQ is impossible to know until we face them.

What I mean is we (SoS) don't have the numbers to compete with them. If Blackgate has the numbers, shouldn't blackgate have overtaken us in the ranking by now? It looks like that will happen next week, but why has it taken so long if BG is really able to compete with JQ?

Unless there's a ton of transfers coming, if people are transferring to BG thinking they'll have a better chance against Stacked Quarry, I think they're going to be disappointed.




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