16 replies to this topic

[Loperdos]

In my random stumblings around the vast interwebs, I ran across a discussion/article about Warcraft lore (not just WoW, but the entirety of the lore) compared to Lord of the Rings lore (all of it, not just the movies, or the game, or whatnot) and the conclusion that the author and some of the commenters came to was that Warcraft lore was far more in-depth and vast and complete as opposed to LotR lore.  This got me thinking and wondering...so in the spirit of the off topic section of the forum....

What say you?!

[Lordkrall]

Well, both of them are really based on already existing stories and such, so hard to say.

At least the LotR lore is consistent and don't change more or less with each new release.

[Arewn]

I'd hardly consider Warcraft lore to be that far up there. It's pretty solid, and extensive, but not particularly great (this is ignoring the more recent crap they've been churning out in WoW). I'd assume that conversation didn't have a LotR buff in it if that was the conclusion that was reached.

[Juanele]

I would say that warcraft lore is a mess, all over the place, kind of like fruitcake.

I imagine that a lot of those commentators haven't read books like the Silmarillion.

Edited by Juanele, 20 February 2013 - 09:28 PM.

[BuddhaKeks]

I can't judge Warcraft lore passed WoW since I never played it. I tried to read up on it, but it's way too much and they made quite some weird decisions in WoW.
As far as Tolkien lore goes, I haven't read the Silmarillion, I however did read about the content. The Simarillion goes far deeper into the religious aspect of Middle Earth, than both the Hobbit and LotR ever go. In fact, the tone and content of those 3 books is so incredibly different, that it almost feels like they were written by different authors.

I don't really think you can compare them. Middle Earth has a message, Warcraft is more about entertainment. But if you really go that way, I'd say, I prefer Tolkiens work, because, as I said, it has a message and that is for the most part, even the smallest can change the world. I think that is a wonderfully empowering idea.
Comparing how deep they go? Warcraft probably has more official stuff, so in quantity it wins easily. Quality? Well it does serve its purpose and it is interesting. The lore and great story made me invested in WC3, moreso than the good gameplay. But from a subjective point of view, I still prefer Tolkien, because this got me really interested in fantasy to beginn with (well I was kind of interested before, but LotR consolidated that).

So Tolkien wins, imo.

[Juanele]

Well, Middle Earth is a lot more coherent. Azeroth (wow's world) is all over the place, seemingly changed at a whimsy by the developers. There might be more stuff in there but quantity is not better than quality.

[Heart Collector]

Warcraft lore is based off Tolkien's work to a large extent apart from Warhammer (which in turn has drawn inspiration from Tolkien as well).

[Lordkrall]

Heart Collector, on 20 February 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

Warcraft lore is based off Tolkien's work to a large extent apart from Warhammer (which in turn has drawn inspiration from Tolkien as well).

And Tolkien's work is based on Norse and Germanic myths and stories

[Heart Collector]

Lordkrall, on 20 February 2013 - 11:52 PM, said:

And Tolkien's work is based on Norse and Germanic myths and stories

Yeah, the Kalevala (spelling?) and all, as well as Greek mythology to a lesser extent (Numenor is reminiscent of Atlantis and Tolkien did have a knowledge of ancient Greek I believe among other languages).

I liked Warcraft lore though, don't get me wrong. Well, at least until Blood Elves and Draenei happened.

Edited by Heart Collector, 20 February 2013 - 11:55 PM.

[lalangamena]

is it a troll post?

comparing Tolkien to warcraft  is like comparing Dostoevsky to fifty shades of grey....

[Loperdos]

lalangamena, on 21 February 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

is it a troll post?

comparing Tolkien to warcraft  is like comparing Dostoevsky to fifty shades of grey....

Lol, nope, not a troll post.  I actually found people discussing it and coming to the conclusion that Warcraft was more in-depth, complete and pervasive as opposed to LotR.  Part of me was amusing by the whole discussion, part of me was curious what people thought about the notion.

Heart Collector, on 20 February 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

Warcraft lore is based off Tolkien's work to a large extent apart from Warhammer (which in turn has drawn inspiration from Tolkien as well).

IIRC, a LOT of modern fantasy has been influenced by Tolkien.  The way that a lot of people and literature view parts of fantasy has changed quite a bit from before Tolkien.  Before Tolkien, fantasy was not really considered a "serious" endeavor, being largely relegated to fairy tales, fables and "cutesy" stories (outside of your epic poetry like Beowulf, The Odyssey, and some other mythological stories from various cultures).  Since then, fantasy has taken off and become quite popular, with stories of dragons, elves, dwarves and other creatures from fantasy (which Tolkien did not invent, but definitely described with quite a bit of detail) being written by an entire genre of authors.

[Heart Collector]

Loperdos, on 21 February 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

IIRC, a LOT of modern fantasy has been influenced by Tolkien.  The way that a lot of people and literature view parts of fantasy has changed quite a bit from before Tolkien.  Before Tolkien, fantasy was not really considered a "serious" endeavor, being largely relegated to fairy tales, fables and "cutesy" stories (outside of your epic poetry like Beowulf, The Odyssey, and some other mythological stories from various cultures).  Since then, fantasy has taken off and become quite popular, with stories of dragons, elves, dwarves and other creatures from fantasy (which Tolkien did not invent, but definitely described with quite a bit of detail) being written by an entire genre of authors.

True that. Even grim, darker fantasy like A song of Ice and Fire is influenced by Tolkien, Martin himself has cited him as an influence I believe. Indeed Tolkien combined a lot of different myths, legends and languages to create his world. I guess that's why it resonated with so many people worldwide, everyone saw a little bit of their own history in the world and a little bit of themselves in at least one character

[Treble]

I'm a huge fan of Warcraft lore. It's probably the best video game lore so far IMO.

Tolkien bored me to tears, but the lore itself is very interesting. I'd rather read LOTR Wiki than the actual books, and I'm an avid reader.

[Arewn]

Loperdos, on 21 February 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

IIRC, a LOT of modern fantasy has been influenced by Tolkien.  The way that a lot of people and literature view parts of fantasy has changed quite a bit from before Tolkien.  Before Tolkien, fantasy was not really considered a "serious" endeavor, being largely relegated to fairy tales, fables and "cutesy" stories (outside of your epic poetry like Beowulf, The Odyssey, and some other mythological stories from various cultures).  Since then, fantasy has taken off and become quite popular, with stories of dragons, elves, dwarves and other creatures from fantasy (which Tolkien did not invent, but definitely described with quite a bit of detail) being written by an entire genre of authors.

Just to add, orcs were invented by Tolkien if I'm not mistaken.
Further more, Tolkien didn't invent elves, dwarves, etc, but played a pivotal role in defining them in the modern fantasy setting. That is to say, their current common iteration in fantasy is largely based off of Tolkien's work.

You can also go on to make arguments such as Tolkien -> Warhammer -> Warcraft
Since warhammer fantasy is heavily influenced by Tolkien's work, and Warcraft in turn literally WAS warhammer until Blizzard failed to acquire the license.
Though that's not to say a copy can't evolve to surpass the original.

[FoxBat]

Loperdos, on 20 February 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

In my random stumblings around the vast interwebs, I ran across a discussion/article about Warcraft lore (not just WoW, but the entirety of the lore) compared to Lord of the Rings lore (all of it, not just the movies, or the game, or whatnot) and the conclusion that the author and some of the commenters came to was that Warcraft lore was far more in-depth and vast and complete as opposed to LotR lore.

That's just saying that there's a lot more published Warcraft lore than Tolkien lore. And there better be with that many people working on it for that many years. It's not really arguable, and it's still no comment on the relative quality of said lorebases.

Edited by FoxBat, 22 February 2013 - 12:29 PM.

[Impmon]

Loperdos, on 20 February 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

In my random stumblings around the vast interwebs, I ran across a discussion/article about Warcraft lore (not just WoW, but the entirety of the lore) compared to Lord of the Rings lore (all of it, not just the movies, or the game, or whatnot) and the conclusion that the author and some of the commenters came to was that Warcraft lore was far more in-depth and vast and complete as opposed to LotR lore.  This got me thinking and wondering...so in the spirit of the off topic section of the forum....

What say you?!

Tolkien being British equates anything of importance to royalty.  Therefore in LoTR lore anything in the story that is even remotely important is in some way descended from royalty.  Everything.  I wrote an essay on it back in college.  The only one who isn't happens to be Frodo/Bilbo & even then everyone (other characters) comment on how someone with such common ancestry is able to perform great deeds as if that was uncommon with no royal lineage.

[BuddhaKeks]

Impmon, on 24 February 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

Tolkien being British equates anything of importance to royalty.  Therefore in LoTR lore anything in the story that is even remotely important is in some way descended from royalty.  Everything.  I wrote an essay on it back in college.  The only one who isn't happens to be Frodo/Bilbo & even then everyone (other characters) comment on how someone with such common ancestry is able to perform great deeds as if that was uncommon with no royal lineage.

Before Tolkien there was no fantasy as we know it today. Where modern fantasy writers look at Tolkien for inspiration, he himself looked at myths and fairy tales. These however originated in times were royals were beliefed to be better than average people, mostly because they had the divine right to rule. Therefore such legends usually have royal or semi-divine protagonists. Naturally this is a common theme in Tolkiens work too, but he averts it, by making non-royals the main heroes. This makes the contrast better and adds to the message, that even the smallest can change the world.