94 replies to this topic

[Omedon]

Kymeric, on 22 February 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

So what I'm getting from the thread is that ANet is not allowed to release content aimed at large guilds without also offering a scaled down version for small guilds.

I don't see why they need be mutually exclusive.  "Small guild content" can be done by large guilds too, only more often/powerfully/largely.

The reverse is not true, in the enabling and rewards sense of this implementation.

[stormofstatic]

Havn't read all posts, but just reading OP post its typical of Anet in GW2 they seem to like to lock out types of players, Nov patch (maybe cant remember) for dungeon lovers only FoTM. now they added something just for guilds(now reading big guilds) so what happened to "play the way u want to "? gw2 has a lot to offer in open world rewards and yet there is NONE(maybe feb fixes) to make a whole world and to funnel  ppl who like dungeons into FoTM and screw over ppl who hate dungeons now they doing it with guild only quests ? time to set dailys/zhasin quests for open world each day and up the rewards for non 80 area's and lets play in "the living world of tyria.

[Omedon]

I was always proud of GW2 for not going overboard on incentivizing the socially numbing practice of the "bigger is better" guild model.  WvW was a good token acknowledgement that "some people will still do it," but that was it.   Now, I am disappoint.

Options are good, it's a net plus for the game, but I don't like the subtext here.

Edited by Omedon, 22 February 2013 - 04:27 PM.

[Lordkrall]

And yet it is still possible to do the exact same things you have done since release with the very same guild. It is not like they are removing anything from smaller guilds or solo-players. They are simply adding stuff to a group that have had more or less NO content for their size since release.

[Omedon]

Lordkrall, on 22 February 2013 - 04:27 PM, said:

And yet it is still possible to do the exact same things you have done since release with the very same guild. It is not like they are removing anything from smaller guilds or solo-players. They are simply adding stuff to a group that have had more or less NO content for their size since release.

Everything we've done, and still do, they can do too.

[Lordkrall]

Omedon, on 22 February 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

Everything we've done, and still do, they can do too.

No they can't.
They can't take the whole guild running a dungeon together for one.
They will also have some issues with doing DEs together since they don't scale to an unlimited number of members, and any DE done with the more than max scalability numbers will be rather easy and boring.

[Kymeric]

Omedon, on 22 February 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

I don't see why they need be mutually exclusive.  "Small guild content" can be done by large guilds too, only more often/powerfully/largely.

In theory.

In theory, DEs scale, and a large guild can jump in and do them together.

In practice, you get twenty people together to do most DEs and they melt before you can even tell what they're about.  In order to truly challenge a large guild and still make it accessible to small guilds, you'd have to tweak the content and provide two different versions.

[Omedon]

Lordkrall, on 22 February 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

No they can't.
They can't take the whole guild running a dungeon together for one.
They will also have some issues with doing DEs together since they don't scale to an unlimited number of members, and any DE done with the more than max scalability numbers will be rather easy and boring.

I suppose.

I still don't like the semantics and the subtext generated by throwing this kind of stuff into their guild system that was pitched to accommodate small guilds and not leave them feeling "wrong."  Again, putting waypoint costs in the mix stings.

[Vihar]

Well, if the trend is any indication, I think the big WvW update in March will be the elimination of WvW altogether.

   The keeps and towers will be replaced with jumping puzzles, water slides, and multicolored turtles everywhere with a special turtle hat that you can buy.

    Pre-launch I was under the impression that GW2 was going to be a great open world PVP game.

    I was very, very wrong.

    They got one guys somewhere in the basement janitor's closet with a desk sign saying "WvW Developer", while everyone upstairs designs new versions of unicorns, rainbows, and quaggan backpacks to throw into new PVE content.

   Months from now we will still have culling, rendering, lag issues, on the same tiny, boring maps, and working on our "WvW Progression" which will have us doing jumping puzzles and chasing leprechauns farting rainbows to get a lucky green top hat drop.

  It's almost time to throw GW2 into the heap of 5,000 other PVE-centric MMO's without any worthwhile open world PVP.

  ANet can kiss my arse with these Guild Events. Too much "Hello Kitty" for me.

[Ritualist]

Kymeric, on 22 February 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

So what I'm getting from the thread is that ANet is not allowed to release content aimed at large guilds without also offering a scaled down version for small guilds.

I think adding new content is fantastic, the problem really is that A.Net doesn't have unlimited resources and they seem to have been providing content that slightly overlaps, with the game also simply lacking the players to support that much over-lapping content.
We have dungeons (which are ALSO getting reworked!) and we have dragons (and potentially even WvW!) to cater to the folk that the new guild missions seem to be designed for. And yet the game still completely lacks any kind of casual, repeatable, on-demand content (this content would need to also provide a solo-option), while the above mentioned content groves staler and emptier by the day.

[P4ndora]

Lordkrall, on 22 February 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

Nothing is actually stopping small guilds from unlocking these missions, it will just take more time. You make is sound as if you CAN'T unlock them at all unless your guild count is over a specific number.

So much this. Nobody is equal. Just like players who can play 8 hours a day will have much more money than players who play 1-2 hours a day. Some people got their precursors on first try, some people threw hunders of gold into the mystic toilet and didn't get anything back.

Personally I wouldn't really call a guild with less than 10 people a guild (no offense). They are more like a group, party or rather: a family. They can easily all gather up in any zone and do events together or just do dungeons without leaving out anyone... while large guilds can't really get everyone together as dungeons are 5-mans, and in zones they're much like a big zerg (which is not that fun).
Already 6 months passed since release and big guild had nothing really to do together (unless if it's a WvW one, but I'm a PvE person so I don't care). Sure they could gather up and do some crazy, pointless stuff but sometimes it could've been better if they can do fun things that's also rewarding. So I don't know why the small guild are so angry, it's basicly the big guilds that didn't get much love until now. And it's not like smaller guilds can't do guild missions, sure it'll take them a while to unlock everything but it's not that big deal imo.

[Doctor Overlord]

If these Guild Bounties missions are in the WvW zones then that makes sense. If these bounties are anywhere else, then that is counter-intuitive and I have to agree this is be a bad idea. PvE guild missions should require guild levels from PvE content, WvW content should lead to guild content directed at WvW.

[Omega X]

Vihar, on 22 February 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

Well, if the trend is any indication, I think the big WvW update in March will be the elimination of WvW altogether.

   The keeps and towers will be replaced with jumping puzzles, water slides, and multicolored turtles everywhere with a special turtle hat that you can buy.

Pre-launch I was under the impression that GW2 was going to be a great open world PVP game.

I was very, very wrong.

They got one guys somewhere in the basement janitor's closet with a desk sign saying "WvW Developer", while everyone upstairs designs new versions of unicorns, rainbows, and quaggan backpacks to throw into new PVE content.

   Months from now we will still have culling, rendering, lag issues, on the same tiny, boring maps, and working on our "WvW Progression" which will have us doing jumping puzzles and chasing leprechauns farting rainbows to get a lucky green top hat drop.

  It's almost time to throw GW2 into the heap of 5,000 other PVE-centric MMO's without any worthwhile open world PVP.

  ANet can kiss my arse with these Guild Events. Too much "Hello Kitty" for me.

Can I have what you're smoking? It looks potent.

[Vihar]

I'm sorry, but requiring Art of War 5 to do PVE events for guild progression just insults both communities.

  I would like to know what they were smoking when they came up with these ideas.

   How about require Art of War 5 to do some WvW Guild Events, and require Politics or something to do PVE Guild Events?

   Is that really so hard to grasp the concept?

   We didn't level our guild to Art of War 5 so we could run around in PVE land and kill mobs.

   If it isn't a WvW event, Art of War 5 should not be a pre-requisite for doing it.

   If Art of War 5 is a pre-requisite, then it should not be a PVE land event.

[Omega X]

According to the people around here, WvW isn't PvP despite the player killing. As for GW2 being a great openworld PvP game, it was never billed that way. What was billed however was this PvP Server vs Server aspect which turns out isn't PvP apparently.

I'll never understand why they seem to fall short on managing this game. They get these great ideas and the execution turns out to be just terrible.

I miss Jeff Strain being involved at ANET.

[rukia]

Gli, on 22 February 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

According to the wiki, it's actually 36,500 to unlock level 5.

And as a general remark, influence can be bought with gold. 73 gold buys the 36,500 influence you need. Any guild with a few moderately wealthy players can get it in seconds.

Not sure whether it's worth it though, for these guild missions.

Thinking about it that way, it's really not a problem. Even my small guild of friends, about 10 of us, could easily fork out 10g each, even less and instantly have lvl5...

It's nothing new though, MMO's focusing on bigger guilds. Small ones are ALWAYS left out, but not as bad in GW2.

[Vihar]

Omega X, on 22 February 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

According to the people around here, WvW isn't PvP despite the player killing. As for GW2 being a great openworld PvP game, it was never billed that way. What was billed however was this PvP Server vs Server aspect which turns out isn't PvP apparently.

I'll never understand why they seem to fall short on managing this game. They get these great ideas and the execution turns out to be just terrible.

I miss Jeff Strain being involved at ANET.

  Agreed.

   I simply use "open world PVP" as a catch all for anything not structured as team vs team. I find that stuff pretty dull, repetetive, and I can get that in many, many other MMO's, after all.

   WvW is really one thing that separates GW2 from contemporary MMO's, and yet their focus seems to be away from WvW and toward all the other crap that every other MMO already has.

[Bryant Again]

So it's raid attunement, like what WoW used to do?

I don't get it.

[AKGeo]

Tyrantscreed, on 22 February 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

Games been out for almost 6 months now - any guild that was been founded since game launch should have everything unlocked by now :\

Perhaps if that guild didn't bother with banners and other consumable upgrades until they did the full tier upgrades. My small guild (15 people online max, half repping) doesn't even have AoW tier 4 unlocked, and the only reason we have 3 is because I wanted to prep for the WvW reset and have some bonuses available. When the reset didn't happen, we went back to banners. Now we're at 5k influence and still on AoW 3.

A small guild typically isn't going to be focusing on big WvW upgrades, because they don't have the numbers to take advantage of it. But hey...let's give this guild content to WvW guilds only (at least at the start) and the little guys can just sit in the corner and pout. Genius.

Edited by AKGeo, 22 February 2013 - 09:47 PM.

[AKGeo]

Lordkrall, on 22 February 2013 - 04:27 PM, said:

And yet it is still possible to do the exact same things you have done since release with the very same guild. It is not like they are removing anything from smaller guilds or solo-players. They are simply adding stuff to a group that have had more or less NO content for their size since release.

Yeah, lower waypoint costs among other things that large guilds get to benefit from that the little guy can't.

[Lordkrall]

AKGeo, on 22 February 2013 - 10:43 PM, said:

Yeah, lower waypoint costs among other things that large guilds get to benefit from that the little guy can't.

A trivial thing.
And yet about 90% of the game is restricted for big guilds making it more or less impossible for them to do things together.

[asbasb]

AKGeo, on 22 February 2013 - 10:43 PM, said:

Yeah, lower waypoint costs among other things that large guilds get to benefit from that the little guy can't.

Well, there have been complaints on the official forums since launch that there is no reason to party up or be part of a guild. Yes, there were WvW bonuses and banners, skins and the like, but people wanted something tangible that gives them an edge in some respect, even if it's just a perceived edge. Same reason why long term gear progression is part of GW2.

[Kymeric]

https://forum-en.gui...e/5#post1492059

Apparently Art of War isn't intended to just be a WvW line.  They say their trying to put stuff for every guild in every line, so there's a reason to develop them.  Level 5 is because they want some of these things to be long term goals.

[jirayasan]

Guild missions and guild rewards will encourage players to stick with one guild.

[Gli]

jirayasan, on 23 February 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

Guild missions and guild rewards will encourage players to stick with one guild.

Unless they're in small guilds, in which case they might encourage people to stop bothering with those.

Edited by Gli, 23 February 2013 - 03:32 PM.

[jirayasan]

Gli, on 23 February 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

Unless their in small guilds, in which case they might encourage people to stop bothering with those.

How small? 5 members? no PvE guild should have 5 players and if they're only 5 they are doing something wrong. 5 members in a TPvP guild is normal though.

It's not even hard to get influence, the guild i'm in have over 1 million influence.

Guild missions are for big/medium guilds, not for 5-10 players.

[Gli]

jirayasan, on 23 February 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

How small? 5 members? no PvE guild should have 5 players and if they're only 5 they are doing something wrong. 5 members in a TPvP guild is normal though.

It's not even hard to get influence, the guild i'm in have over 1 million influence.

Guild missions are for big/medium guilds, not for 5-10 players.

What's wrong with just 5 people in a PvE guild?

[jirayasan]

Gli, on 23 February 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

What's wrong with just 5 people in a PvE guild?

It's not wrong, but don't expect guild missions unless you play alot and got the moeny for it.

[Azure Skye]

Gli, on 23 February 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

What's wrong with just 5 people in a PvE guild?

Why be anti-social in a MMO?  If i want to be anti-social, ill play console games or play offline. o.o

[Gli]

Azure Skye, on 23 February 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

Why be anti-social in a MMO?  If i want to be anti-social, ill play console games or play offline. o.o

What does being in a small guild have to do with being anti-social in an MMO? That sounds like a connection suspiciously similar to: "if she floats, she's a witch".