94 replies to this topic

[Omedon]

Gli, on 23 February 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

What does being in a small guild have to do with being anti-social in an MMO? That sounds like a connection suspiciously similar to: "if she floats, she's a witch".

That small guild turned me into a newt!

Edited by Omedon, 23 February 2013 - 09:21 PM.

[AKGeo]

Azure Skye, on 23 February 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

Why be anti-social in a MMO?  If i want to be anti-social, ill play console games or play offline. o.o

You're one of those people who spams guild chat with LOLOLOLOL I JUST GOT DIS WEAPON *pings random level 77 exotic* WUTS IT WORTH? WTS 3G LOLOLOLOL" aren't you?

[Azure Skye]

Gli, on 23 February 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

What does being in a small guild have to do with being anti-social in an MMO? That sounds like a connection suspiciously similar to: "if she floats, she's a witch".

I've been in a small guild (1 to 5 people daily), I loved the people but i didn't like they weren't on all the time. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't helpful when i need it. If you called a PUG, most likely you will get ignored, you will still get it in the guild but it won't be as high as asking a random PUG to help you. I like being helpful when i can do it and i can ask for help when i need it. Plus, you can multi-guild in here, so i don't get what is the problem is.  I'm just a social butterfly, even if its a small guild or large one.  

AKGeo, on 23 February 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

You're one of those people who spams guild chat with LOLOLOLOL I JUST GOT DIS WEAPON *pings random level 77 exotic* WUTS IT WORTH? WTS 3G LOLOLOLOL" aren't you?

I haven't done that since my noobs days in GW1, when i didn't know where to look to get a price check. So thank you for misrepresenting me. Thank you, my good sir. =)

Edited by Azure Skye, 24 February 2013 - 12:09 AM.

[AKGeo]

Azure Skye, on 24 February 2013 - 12:02 AM, said:

I haven't done that since my noobs days in GW1, when i didn't know where to look to get a price check. So thank you for misrepresenting me. Thank you, my good sir. =)

The point I'm making is that large guilds tend to attract the attention-seekers who can't go 30 seconds without saying something in guild chat, and gets upset if someone doesn't reply. That's not being social, that's being annoying. A guild with 5 actively regular players who get along and converse is plenty social. I don't need to wade through a bunch of tween BS in order to get my communication fix.

[Omedon]

AKGeo, on 24 February 2013 - 03:00 AM, said:

The point I'm making is that large guilds tend to attract the attention-seekers who can't go 30 seconds without saying something in guild chat, and gets upset if someone doesn't reply. That's not being social, that's being annoying. A guild with 5 actively regular players who get along and converse is plenty social. I don't need to wade through a bunch of tween BS in order to get my communication fix.

True story: last "larger guild" I was in, the officers had to "put their foot down" about people saying "goodnight, logging out!" and then logging before people could respond.  The people whose responses fell on deaf ears would complain about such "ninja logging," and so people had to be aware of the feelings of those they were offending by not waiting for a reply.

This is reason number infinity why I've stuck to the same smaller, tight knit group ever since.  Some of us have memories of that old guild, and we laugh about it now.

Edited by Omedon, 24 February 2013 - 03:32 AM.

[Jentari]

I am in a larger guild and I can say that the chat on most nights with 75-100 on is empty.  If people want to socialize they do so in our voice client not in chat.  Now back to topic, I do see where people are coming from in this thread.  Even being in a large guild I do not like the idea that this is being released that caters more to the large guilds then the small ones.  This really is the first time and only 6 months in, that something is being released that a portion of the population might not be able to do.

[Tyrantscreed]

AKGeo, on 24 February 2013 - 03:00 AM, said:

The point I'm making is that large guilds tend to attract the attention-seekers who can't go 30 seconds without saying something in guild chat, and gets upset if someone doesn't reply. That's not being social, that's being annoying. A guild with 5 actively regular players who get along and converse is plenty social. I don't need to wade through a bunch of tween BS in order to get my communication fix.

Lol what kind of large guilds have you been to? Clearly not the right ones. The two med/large PvE guilds I’m in is with people who are 20+ and a lot between the ages 30-40 (not sure about my WvW guild) and we tend to have a lot of engaging and entertaining conversations in guild chat. Oh right, we must be tween attention seekers now.

And no, we don’t have any “LOOK I GOT THIS L33T ITEM GAIS” people in our guild. We just love conversing while playing given that a lot of us work and have limited gaming time.

It’s ok that you prefer “smaller” guilds, don’t worry you will eventually get all the available guild perks, it’s not going anywhere. Like others said before you can also attend the event triggered by other guilds, so don’t bash on large guild due to whatever bad experience that you might have had.

I respect the small guilds that try to stay together in their “closed” group, but honestly, this is an MMO, try to get to know others – who knows, you might even have fun.

Edited by Tyrantscreed, 25 February 2013 - 03:02 PM.

[infisio]

AKGeo, on 24 February 2013 - 03:00 AM, said:

The point I'm making is that large guilds tend to attract the attention-seekers who can't go 30 seconds without saying something in guild chat, and gets upset if someone doesn't reply. That's not being social, that's being annoying. A guild with 5 actively regular players who get along and converse is plenty social. I don't need to wade through a bunch of tween BS in order to get my communication fix.

I think that's generalizing just a tad.  It all depends on the personalities in the guild.  A guild of 5 could have one person who wants to jabber all night long while I'm in the middle of a dungeon, and a large guild could be full of people that are "strictly business."   Our officers are very good at tamping down non-game talk in guild chat - they just remind them that there is private chatting to continue their discussion.  

Omedon, on 24 February 2013 - 03:31 AM, said:

True story: last "larger guild" I was in, the officers had to "put their foot down" about people saying "goodnight, logging out!" and then logging before people could respond.  The people whose responses fell on deaf ears would complain about such "ninja logging," and so people had to be aware of the feelings of those they were offending by not waiting for a reply.

Hmmm... I guess I would be one of the ninja loggers.  I try to make sure that I say goodnight and log off, so people I've been chatting with/playing with, would know I'm no longer around.  But saying goodnight, then waiting around to see everyone else wish me goodnight seems a little ego-ish.  If someone signs off, I may reply, but I certainly wouldn't be offended if the were offline and didn't see my reply.

[Gruunz]

I kinda felt somewhat confused why these "bounty" missions come from Guild unlockables and aren't actually a part of the Order exclusive choices.

They seem like the GW1 Zhaisen bounty but they are only exclusive to guilds. Thought this would have went well to slot them into the orders, so the Orders actually have something interesting going on instead of simply buying armor/weapons.

[Lordkrall]

Gruunz, on 25 February 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

I kinda felt somewhat confused why these "bounty" missions come from Guild unlockables and aren't actually a part of the Order exclusive choices.

They seem like the GW1 Zhaisen bounty but they are only exclusive to guilds. Thought this would have went well to slot them into the orders, so the Orders actually have something interesting going on instead of simply buying armor/weapons.

Keep in mind though that they aren't really exclusive to guilds. They are only startable by guilds, sure, but they are in the open world and everyone can join them after they have started.
Another thing to keep in mind is that they do seem to be rather dangerous encounters not possible to do without a rather large group of players.

[AKGeo]

infisio, on 25 February 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

I think that's generalizing just a tad.  It all depends on the personalities in the guild.  A guild of 5 could have one person who wants to jabber all night long while I'm in the middle of a dungeon, and a large guild could be full of people that are "strictly business."   Our officers are very good at tamping down non-game talk in guild chat - they just remind them that there is private chatting to continue their discussion.  

And it has to get to that point, doesn't it? I wouldn't be in a small guild with a jibber-jabber. A small guild that endures a jibber-jabber is probably going to be all jibber-jabbers anyway. A large guild has a much higher chance of at least one jibber-jabber joining up. And oftentimes it only takes one or two lines of jibber-jabber to get on my nerves...because those lines tend to have the telltale signs: caps lock on, excessive punctuation, LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL for days, horrific spelling and grammar, etc.

I'm not against conversationalists. But if they're vomiting keystrokes into the guild chat, that's where I draw the line.

[zwei2stein]

Real question is: Will even big guilds bother with starting/doing them after inital experimenting/trying new shinies?

[DarkGanni]

Azure Skye, on 23 February 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

Why be anti-social in a MMO?  If i want to be anti-social, ill play console games or play offline. o.o

You're quiet wrong there.

I'm not sure where you got the console games not being social idea, they have online features too you know? Unless you're playing PS1 you're way off.

Secondly I know many guilds that are small and mostly composed of friends. I happen to be in a small guild too but that doesn't mean I play alone, actually I've got a long friends list with whom I play often and it's a shame American and Europe servers can't play with each other.

[Resolve]

Tyrantscreed, on 22 February 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

Games been out for almost 6 months now - any guild that was been founded since game launch should have everything unlocked by now :\

Might be difficult for newer guilds or small 5-10 man guilds but w/e you can still buy influence if you are in such a hurry.

Ok so even if we assume that's true(It isn't), then why even make the guild missions require any unlocks to do? Anet want to stop the guilds that weren't around at launch to do this content? Why would they do that?

Kymeric, on 22 February 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

So what I'm getting from the thread is that ANet is not allowed to release content aimed at large guilds without also offering a scaled down version for small guilds.

Why can't they just release content and not have these silly requirements? What benefit is there from having guilds required to buy these upgrades if they want to do the missions?


Zero. There is zero benefit to this system. it's just more artificial grind. No player should be supporting this, regardless of what sized guild you are in.

Can the people defending this please say what the positives for the players are?

[Gli]

Some more information. including some numbers, here:

http://www.guildwars...-guild-missions

Definitely not for my guild it seems.

[Tyrantscreed]

Resolve, on 26 February 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

Ok so even if we assume that's true(It isn't), then why even make the guild missions require any unlocks to do? Anet want to stop the guilds that weren't around at launch to do this content? Why would they do that?

If you could cared to read my previous post, you would have found your answer. Anet is not stopping any guild.

"Like others said before you can also attend the event triggered by other guilds"

Also the link that Gli posted above, says

What does benefit smaller guilds is the fact that Merits are fundamental to unlocking higher tiers and are restricted to a set number you and your guild can earn each week. The key here is the fact that larger guilds can’t just use up all their influence to buy their way into higher tiers, they have to earn them through Merits which don’t come easy.

Resolve, on 26 February 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

Can the people defending this please say what the positives for the players are?

It allows for difficulty tiers to be implemented.

Gli, on 26 February 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

Some more information. including some numbers, here:

http://www.guildwars...-guild-missions

Definitely not for my guild it seems.

Why not? You just have to save your influence! WvW if you must, it's the fastest way to get influence!

Edited by Tyrantscreed, 26 February 2013 - 02:33 PM.

[Resolve]

Tyrantscreed, on 26 February 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

If you could cared to read my previous post, you would have found your answer. Anet is not stopping any guild.

"Like others said before you can also attend the event triggered by other guilds"

Oh so if it's that easy then why even have it as an unlockable thing? Why not just allow any guild to do it when they want to?

[Gli]

Tyrantscreed, on 26 February 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

Why not? You just have to save your influence! WvW if you must, it's the fastest way to get influence!

It takes 50,000 influence to unlock a guild mission if that article is correct. My guild hasn't made that much in the 6 months since release. We're also still without any levels in Art of War, which will take an addition 36,500.

As I said, not for my guild.

[Tyrantscreed]

Resolve, on 26 February 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

Oh so if it's that easy then why even have it as an unlockable thing? Why not just allow any guild to do it when they want to?

Um, because the reward has a chance to give precursor? You don't the whole market instantly crashing due to influx of precursors.

Gli, on 26 February 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

It takes 50,000 influence to unlock a guild mission if that article is correct. My guild hasn't made that much in the 6 months since release. We're also still without any levels in Art of War, which will take an addition 36,500.

As I said, not for my guild.

Well, just throwing out ideas, but - have gold donations to up your influence? Fully unlocked & completing all the guild mission gives 4g a week PER member, according to your article.

Edited by Tyrantscreed, 26 February 2013 - 02:47 PM.

[infisio]

Gli, on 26 February 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

It takes 50,000 influence to unlock a guild mission if that article is correct. My guild hasn't made that much in the 6 months since release. We're also still without any levels in Art of War, which will take an addition 36,500.

As I said, not for my guild.

LOL - not even the "large" guild I'm in has collected 50,000 influence yet (we have over 100 members, but only 10-20 on at any given time).  My small guild doesn't even have a chance.  I guess I won't be able to participate unless I join a third guild.

[Lordkrall]

Let's all keep in mind that nothing is official until the release or ArenaNets say so. It would not be the first time an article comes out before a release with incorrect information.

[Azure Skye]

DarkGanni, on 26 February 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

You're quiet wrong there.

I'm not sure where you got the console games not being social idea, they have online features too you know? Unless you're playing PS1 you're way off.

Secondly I know many guilds that are small and mostly composed of friends. I happen to be in a small guild too but that doesn't mean I play alone, actually I've got a long friends list with whom I play often and it's a shame American and Europe servers can't play with each other.

I've played up to ps2 and xbox 1, all had crappy online features and its "quite wrong" not quiet. Only the last generation of consoles make it feasible to play with people that aren't physically there. Thats when i switched from console to pc because i wanted to play with other people that aren't physically here, where i live. I didn't make myself clear, sorry for that.

[infisio]

Actually, it's 50,000 to unlock PLUS to cost of the upgrades to the 4 categories in the guild panel.  How much are those upgrades?  500? 5,000?

http://www.guildwars...-guild-missions

I really wonder what they consider to be a "small guild"

[tfckmk988]

infisio, on 26 February 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

Actually, it's 50,000 to unlock PLUS to cost of the upgrades to the 4 categories in the guild panel.  How much are those upgrades?  500? 5,000?

http://www.guildwars...-guild-missions

I really wonder what they consider to be a "small guild"

we only (think we)*know the cost for the bounty mode the other modes may have a lower cost and easier prereq's (maybe not but maybe)

EDIT: added think we to remind people that this was an unoffical post and that the number could be wrong

Edited by tfckmk988, 26 February 2013 - 03:16 PM.

[Resolve]

Tyrantscreed, on 26 February 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

Um, because the reward has a chance to give precursor? You don't the whole market instantly crashing due to influx of precursors.

I don't see how that would be a problem. A LOT of people hate the current precursor market. It would actually be quite nice to see precursors at a smilar price to the one after the karka event.

So far the 'positive" reasons for having an unlock cost so far are: It will crash the precursor market. Keep them coming lol.

[tfckmk988]

Resolve, on 26 February 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

I don't see how that would be a problem. A LOT of people hate the current precursor market. It would actually be quite nice to see precursors at a smilar price to the one after the karka event.

So far the 'positive" reasons for having an unlock cost so far are: It will crash the precursor market. Keep them coming lol.

just throwing it out there maybe they are seeing guilds that avoid  getting more than guild bank and some buffs and hope this will encourage guilds to get every upgrade available

[Resolve]

tfckmk988, on 26 February 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

just throwing it out there maybe they are seeing guilds that avoid  getting more than guild bank and some buffs and hope this will encourage guilds to get every upgrade available

That's what Anet are doing yes.

I don't see how that's a good thing though.

[kendro1200]

The_Blades, on 22 February 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

Why would you even comment in this thread when you obviously dont have a guild?

people in small guilds that actually like to play with each other should not have an obstacle like this to surpass.

I have a small guild, with 4 other RL friends, and i'm also part of a big guild. what if i want to do the content with my small guild? my only hope is that the combining of guild efforts can be done in such a way that it doesnt require for every guild to have the upgrades maxed.

His input was useful, he pointed that out that the sky isn't falling, like every small guild is trying to make it seem like.  You can unlock the content if you want to.  Eventually you will be able to start it if you want to.  Literally nothing is stopping you other than yourself.
The ability for you to complete the content doesn't change by the AoW level 5 pre-req, if they had not even had the pre-req the body count and difficulty of the mission would have been just the same.

The content isn't even out yet, no one has tried it yet, there is no reason to pass harsh judgement against it until it is tried.  By the way 73 gold is actually pretty easy for one person to make in a week with fairly casual play and without playing the TP.  A week before the semester started I was able to buy a full t3 cultural set (and a set of exotic weapons to go with it) starting from scratch only playing 3 hours a night, basically of just fractals and CoF exp on my necro.  There is absolutely no reason why a group of people can't pool together a similar sum in less time.

If it turns out that guild mission isn't for your guild you at least have it unlocked.  You could then charge other guilds that don't have it unlocked to start the event, either gold (which your guild could put back into either gaining more influence to open something else, or even a commander book for the guild) or just have them represent your guild while they do that content, re-earning the influence and possibly recruiting new members.

There are plenty of solutions to this problem, and it's a soft gate at worst, a small speed bump at best.

[tfckmk988]

Resolve, on 26 February 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

That's what Anet are doing yes.

I don't see how that's a good thing though.

why do you see it as a bad thing?

[Resolve]

tfckmk988, on 26 February 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

why do you see it as a bad thing?

Because this shuts out smaller guilds?

Imagine that these guild missions didn't cost any influence. Just imagine that for a second.

What are the pros and cons of that? What does the game gain and lose?

Now do the same for the current system. Anyone with half a brain should be able to see why it's a negative thing.