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I'm trying really hard to like this game


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#61 Feathermoore

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 12:08 AM

Stay on topic. If you want to discuss issues you have with the game, this is not the thread to do it in. Let's get back on the topic and see if an actual conversation can evolve out of it.

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#62 omar316

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 02:59 AM

I love this dude.

View PostFeathermoore, on 26 February 2013 - 12:08 AM, said:

Stay on topic. If you want to discuss issues you have with the game, this is not the thread to do it in. Let's get back on the topic and see if an actual conversation can evolve out of it.
Honestly he just kicks so much logic into many people's ass.

My main reason is friends really. I got 1 guy I am trying to bring to the dark side but he put in so much effort in to his Necro getting the stuff he wants that he is still playing.

I got a few other friends I met, to wholm I gave away my T6 mats, yes shit loads of lodestones and ingots, oh and I basically funded 3 legendaries, which was the most fun I had playing this junk.
1 Frostfang, 1 rainbow shooting bow thingy, and a Twilight i think. They're done with their legendaries and I am out of fun things to do now.

Maybe you can be a sugar daddy/momma to someone else?

But I agree with alot of the other gamers sentiments.
If you're trying to find a reason to log in I think it would be better to simply quit honestly.

I don't even enjoy the dailies. In fact this is the first game I even intended to run dailies even, and that habit stuck to me and SWTOR keeps me invested in the variety of dailies.

#63 clipbord

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 05:42 AM

View Postomar316, on 26 February 2013 - 02:59 AM, said:

I love this dude.




But I agree with alot of the other gamers sentiments.
If you're trying to find a reason to log in I think it would be better to simply quit honestly.



I don't plan on quitting GW2, more of a break. Look I love GW1, and I have had moments like these in GW1, where i felt like I'm not enjoying the game anymore, and  I told myself to quit. But I would still keep up to date with the game check for new content, and stuff, I kept logging on and soon i find my self hooked again. I'm looking forward for new content for GW2, again, I don't dislike the game, I think its a fantastic game, that I know I can get hooked on again.

#64 Dasviidonja

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 06:20 AM

View PostDeConstruct, on 25 February 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

That's the thing though, you really do those things purely for your own satisfaction. They do not help you progress in the game, nor do they provide any meaningful challenge. You just go through the motions. Commonly referred to as a grind.

The "bored" players are expecting the game to react to their input. You could even substitute game by players if you are provided the right environments. In an MMO you typically have both sides. Challenging PvE content that takes a certain amount of skill to master and rewards you accordingly. And challenging PvP content. Whether it be literal fighting against eachother or competition on vanity items and cosmetics. Sadly the game has about a month's worth of content that meets these expectations. The combat system doesn't allow for the depth desired, and the item/cosmetic system fails to appeal to ones' vanity.

You mention it yourself, the almost compulsion to have things complete. The term OCD refers to this as a disorder for a reason. It is man's nature to do those things that provide tangible benefits. Ask a guy whether he would repaint an object no one would ever look at. He says no. Ask a guy the same thing, but now tell him he'll be judged by his peers and the answer will be different.

To simplify it, the bored players are missing carrots on the end of their sticks.

For me personally, the very notion of doing something daily to get to a disputable reward months down the line, disturbs me. If I cant use it to be better at the game or to show it off, there is no point in it for me. And even then the reward needs to be worth the time invested. You would think legendary items would be the ultimate carrot. But instead legendary owners are met with pity and the graphics attached are experienced as a hindrance.

Hope this helps you to "just understand there's nothing to do past 80" sentiment.

That ^ is one of the best posts I ever read describing what it's like in GW2. It just feels incomplete and boredom sets in early.
For me one of the big main problems is they tossed us a big bone in GW1 with heroes and coming to this game from that one with no sidekicks, no henchies, no heroes, no nuthin just made the game like a step backwards. I miss outfitting my heroes with skills and trying them out in certain areas. This was suppose to be GW2 not something out of leftfield.

#65 zwei2stein

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:02 AM

View Postinfisio, on 25 February 2013 - 04:19 PM, said:

1.) This isn't just a list of "things to farm."  I genuinely enjoy leveling characters, experimenting with different weapons and gear, and watching how the experience of playing the character develops as they level.  I love trying dungeons, fractals, and WvW with alts so I can have an entirely different experience in those parts.  I enjoy tweaking new builds to optimize my efficiency in all areas of the game.  

2.) I max crafts so I can make things for myself rather than having to farm gold to just buy them from the TP.  And gathering mats while I am leveling a character and enjoying the points described in bullet #1 is hardly "farming."  Farming is "I'm doing this area over and over just to get large fangs."

You genuinelly enjoy leveling characters, but if you tell someone "go level character, you will enjoy it", this advice is going to fail because retort will be "why would i enjoy it?". To want to enjoy different perspective, you needed to enjoy you first one, otherwise you will lack motivation.

You max crafts to equip your fleet of alts, but if someone has no interest in having fleet of alts, he will know it is mostly wasted effort. And I think that we both know that eventually you will run out of materials for activator componenets and have to buy them.

#66 Heart Collector

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 12:12 PM

View Postclipbord, on 24 February 2013 - 02:13 AM, said:

I'm a big fan of Guild Wars, I have been playing the first one for 6+ years, and I got GW2 release day and I played for a good 2-3 months. It was really fun, got my character to 80 I did tons of dungeons deck my character out in exotic armor. Then it stop, I just lost interest in playing the game, I stopped for a few months.

Now I'm trying to get back, but I can't find myself to enjoy the game, and I'm really trying to spark an interest for the game again. How do you guys keep yourself playing?

Just to clarify things, GW2 is a great game, I stop enjoying it not because its not fun, I just grew tired of it, and I'm trying to get back into playing it.

Don't try. If you can't get into it, leave it... No matter how hard you try, it won't work :)

I'm taking a break too. I love the game, have had great fun with it almost non-stop since release (a week after to be precise). But I've reached the point where logging in holds little excitement for me, if any. And heck after so many months of constant play it's natural. I'll definitely be coming back to the game though, to check out new stuff! There's no sub restricting me either \o/

#67 infisio

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 02:47 PM

View Postzwei2stein, on 26 February 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

You genuinelly enjoy leveling characters, but if you tell someone "go level character, you will enjoy it", this advice is going to fail because retort will be "why would i enjoy it?". To want to enjoy different perspective, you needed to enjoy you first one, otherwise you will lack motivation.

You max crafts to equip your fleet of alts, but if someone has no interest in having fleet of alts, he will know it is mostly wasted effort. And I think that we both know that eventually you will run out of materials for activator componenets and have to buy them.

I wasn't saying "go level a character" or "go max a craft" - I was merely answering the OP's question.

"How do you guys keep yourself playing?"

This is what I do.  (Certainly someone's not going to make the discovery that they can make another character just from my post ;) ) I was saying that it was one of the many things I enjoy doing.  I am well aware that everyone has their different preferences in the game. Clearly, from my list, there are technically alot of things to do in the game.  I didn't even touch on Fractals or PvP.  To say there "is nothing to do in this game" - is just a way of saying "there's nothing I want to do in the game."  That's a fair, valid opinion. I'm not trying to convince anyone to do exactly what I do.

#68 Strawberry Nubcake

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 03:22 PM

View Postclipbord, on 26 February 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

I don't plan on quitting GW2, more of a break. Look I love GW1, and I have had moments like these in GW1, where i felt like I'm not enjoying the game anymore, and  I told myself to quit. But I would still keep up to date with the game check for new content, and stuff, I kept logging on and soon i find my self hooked again. I'm looking forward for new content for GW2, again, I don't dislike the game, I think its a fantastic game, that I know I can get hooked on again.
That's not a bad idea.  It got to the point where I felt like I needed a change of scenery just to maintain my sanity back when I was playing GW1.  Some of the games I played during my vacations were so bad that they made me love and appreciate the game even more once I returned!  It's amazing how much can be taken for granted. The lack of a subscription definitely makes it easier to take a break!

That won't work for everyone, though!  It's quite obvious that some people hate almost everything about GW2.  There isn't much that will help them besides accepting that it may not be the game for them and moving on.  (or they can continue to haunt the forums like a bunch of angry ghosts.  WTB Salt!  ;))

Edited by Strawberry Nubcake, 26 February 2013 - 03:23 PM.


#69 Blixcoe

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 07:51 AM

Bloggi has a really good point there. I stopped playing this game not only because I didn't feel like I had any to do, but because my only friend that I had awaited the game with for 1 year and 2 months, never really got into the game. I have a nice guild, but I don't really know any of them in real life, and my guild is drama every day. I've played 600 hours total, but after hitting 80 and finding out that legendaries were the only things to aim for (and jesus christ I'm not aiming for that, considering how poor I am) I slowly started playing less and, quit the game a few months later.

My friend never got into the game, and I bet I would've still played if he liked the game. Sadly, that's not how it is.

WvWvW bores me, a massive zerg fest. And don't come with the "just go with a smaller group and do the smaller objectives" because my guild isn't really into that. Not dungeons either. Well, dungeons suck imo though. And rewards are still meh.

In the end, this game didn't turn out as fun as I wanted. And not having any irl friends to support, it can't be helped.

Edited by Blixcoe, 01 March 2013 - 07:54 AM.


#70 lazykoala

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 07:53 PM

It's free. That is the best thing about it. You don't have to feel obligated to play 24/7 like with a subscription game, but like most people have said....it is a good not great game and I also have some high hopes for the first expansion.

#71 Dasryn

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 07:59 PM

View Postlazykoala, on 03 March 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

It's free. That is the best thing about it. You don't have to feel obligated to play 24/7 like with a subscription game, but like most people have said....it is a good not great game and I also have some high hopes for the first expansion.

^this

i was gw2 heavy about 2 months ago for a good 3 months or so but i got a new job and had to focus on that.  i wasnt really able to play so i dropped off but now im back with a new profession and really feeling the fire again.

never paid a dime during that hiatus and good ol gw2 was waiting for me like a loving mother.

i dont try to like this game it is CLEARLY the best and most perfect mmorpg on the market atm moment.  WoW is catering to the asian market and hath forsaketh thine westerners, swtor is a TOTAL joke right now, seriously i logged in two weeks ago to check out the f2p nonsense and its really sad folks like those people playing that game KNOW its dead and when i called it out they said: we got our money's worth, TESO is a joke, watch gameplay, clearly has a long ways to go, rift is a good contender but the storyline and game world are just uninspired, and defiance is a shooter so reference planetside2. oh and the secret world is copying gw2 model of obvious reasons.

gw2 is the new golden standard folks, betterget on board.

gw2 is the best mmorpg on the market, if you dont want to acknowledge that you are in straight up denial.

#72 omar316

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 12:24 PM

View PostRickter, on 03 March 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

^this

i was gw2 heavy about 2 months ago for a good 3 months or so but i got a new job and had to focus on that.  i wasnt really able to play so i dropped off but now im back with a new profession and really feeling the fire again.

never paid a dime during that hiatus and good ol gw2 was waiting for me like a loving mother.

i dont try to like this game it is CLEARLY the best and most perfect mmorpg on the market atm moment.  WoW is catering to the asian market and hath forsaketh thine westerners, swtor is a TOTAL joke right now, seriously i logged in two weeks ago to check out the f2p nonsense and its really sad folks like those people playing that game KNOW its dead and when i called it out they said: we got our money's worth, TESO is a joke, watch gameplay, clearly has a long ways to go, rift is a good contender but the storyline and game world are just uninspired, and defiance is a shooter so reference planetside2. oh and the secret world is copying gw2 model of obvious reasons.

gw2 is the new golden standard folks, betterget on board.

gw2 is the best mmorpg on the market, if you dont want to acknowledge that you are in straight up denial.

GW2 is hardly a golden standard. Anything stardard about it is its prolonged grind of anything.
There is nothing in game which doesn't get accomplished without grind.
Everything screams simplicity and uninspired common crap.

Most of the guildies who left for gw2 are back on swtor or some other games and they all say the same thing; I already grinded the same crap for my end game gear, I just want to have some fun not bore myself to death with more grind.

#73 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 01:25 PM

View Postomar316, on 04 March 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

GW2 is hardly a golden standard. Anything stardard about it is its prolonged grind of anything.
There is nothing in game which doesn't get accomplished without grind.
Everything screams simplicity and uninspired common crap.

Most of the guildies who left for gw2 are back on swtor or some other games and they all say the same thing; I already grinded the same crap for my end game gear, I just want to have some fun not bore myself to death with more grind.


As I said in the other thread - I still believe that GW2 is the best thing on the MMO market. But I also believe that MMOs aren't amazing games, so GW2, not as an MMO but rather as a game, falls a bit flat.
GW2 fixes a number of things that make MMOs into poor games - but simply not implementing dumb-ass ideas doesn't make a game into a great game, it just means it's a game that doesn't have (too many) dumb-ass ideas. You actually need to make a good game rather than just omit mistakes.

I think that GW2 reflects the MMO genre - if GW2 is the best thing in the genre, clearly the genre needs changing because the best thing in the genre isn't an amazing game.

Edited by Ritualist, 05 March 2013 - 03:54 PM.


#74 El Duderino

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 02:47 PM

View PostRitualist, on 04 March 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

As I said in the other thread - I still believe that GW2 is the best thing on the MMO market. But I also believe that MMOs aren't amazing games, so GW2, not as an MMO but rather as a game, falls a bit flat.
GW2 fixes a number of things that make MMOs into poor games - but simply not implementing dumb-ass ideas doesn't make a game into a great game, it just means it's a game that doesn't have (too many) dumb-ass ideas.

I think that GW2 reflects the MMO genre - if GW2 is the best thing in the genre, clearly the genre needs changing because the best thing in the genre isn't an amazing game.

What's funny is that I think ANet made GW1 as an experiment to see if they could make a unique and different MMO and see if it could sell. And it did. A lot.

Then, I think they still had this idea of breaking the mold and making something unique and different - but they tried way too hard to make everyone happy at the same time. And what they got was something that is a cluster-f**k of unique mechanics combined with too many WoW-like similarities that doesn't really mesh well.

It is a like a jack of all trades, but master of none kind of game. Nothing is really spectacularly well done, but it all still works fairly well.

I think that is one of the reasons we have so much dissent about the game. If this game was as spectacular as people make it out be, there would far less criticism than there is currently. Or at the very least, the critics would hate the game enough to leave it alone - yet it is still just good enough for people to keep playing but not good enough to keep them from being critical.

#75 Gamidragon

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:04 PM

View Postclipbord, on 24 February 2013 - 02:13 AM, said:

Now I'm trying to get back, but I can't find myself to enjoy the game, and I'm really trying to spark an interest for the game again. How do you guys keep yourself playing?

I was here once, although I didn't stop playing for the same amount of time, maybe a month.  Honestly, when I first came back, I could not find the spark of interest.  I was just bored.  Now I play almost every single day, and I have always fun every single day I play.

I found a really awesome guild.  For me, that really made the difference.  Maybe you just need to find some like minded people to play with?

#76 raspberry jam

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:18 PM

View PostEl Duderino, on 04 March 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

What's funny is that I think ANet made GW1 as an experiment to see if they could make a unique and different MMO and see if it could sell. And it did. A lot.

Then, I think they still had this idea of breaking the mold and making something unique and different - but they tried way too hard to make everyone happy at the same time. And what they got was something that is a cluster-f**k of unique mechanics combined with too many WoW-like similarities that doesn't really mesh well.
I too think that they idea of GW1 was to create something new and unique. And that idea stayed for the sequel. However to create something that is new and unique, you need to have a new and unique idea. And that is sorely lacking in GW2. Instead we see a game filled with failed variations of ideas that have been around from the very beginning of MMOs.
I understand and appreciate what ANet was trying to do. Interestingly there were things being said before the release that made little warning bells ring in the back of my mind. But I ignored those... Well most of them. Actually my main concern was that there would be no meaningful gameplay outside of dynamic events. I made a thread about it, where people would tell me that dynamic events would happen so frequently that there would be no in-between time. I tried to explain that with no reason to travel, we'd have to rely on events that happened locally. That a too high intensity of events would make the game too chaotic. Of course i was right, and it turned out that all assumptions in the thread were wrong: waypoints turned out to require fees, hearts and gathering/crafting is a sizeable part of leveling, and dungeon runs and farming is a sizeable part of endgame.

I agree with your conclusion. GW2 is decent. For an MMO I'd even say it's one of the best. Unfortunately that says nothing.

We really need an MMO that is also an actually good game.

#77 christiansoldier

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:42 PM

I have found some of the information shared in these thread very insightful. For those that are leaving the game or taking a break, can you post the number of hour you have played and when you started? The mood I get when I read these threads sound similar to burnout when people are overworded.

#78 Heart Collector

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 09:54 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 04 March 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

I agree with your conclusion. GW2 is decent. For an MMO I'd even say it's one of the best. Unfortunately that says nothing.

We really need an MMO that is also an actually good game.

I consider GW2 to be a very good game, not perfect but still enjoyable enough for me to have poured lots of hours into it. However, I understand what you mean. I had that very same feeling about WoW.

I think that GW2 has an identity - but it's not too strong or unique. And that comes from it being a more casual oriented game that tries to appeal to as many people as possible. Mainstream MMOs in general tend to do this, and it leads to a more homogenized feel.

It takes a niche, hardcore MMO to really stand out as a unique game, maybe even a classic, despite any flaws it may have. And the same could be said for any game genre really.

#79 raspberry jam

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 08:57 AM

View PostHeart Collector, on 04 March 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

I consider GW2 to be a very good game
Really? I don't. As I said, it's top class when it comes to MMOs. But seen side by side with other games, it's not really that impressive. I mean, yes, it has its good points; nice graphics and a detailed world. But compared to the likes of Dark Souls, Skyrim, hell even Mass Effect (1), or Civilization V to take a completely different genre, it almost feels like a waste of disk space.

GW1 stood out, and while it was "niche", that niche was pretty big (7 million units sold); while the PvP was (and, I'd say, still is) best in the genre it could also be played very casually. All you really need to stand out is to have a really good idea.

Edited by raspberry jam, 05 March 2013 - 08:58 AM.


#80 Heart Collector

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 09:35 AM

View Postraspberry jam, on 05 March 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

Really? I don't. As I said, it's top class when it comes to MMOs. But seen side by side with other games, it's not really that impressive. I mean, yes, it has its good points; nice graphics and a detailed world. But compared to the likes of Dark Souls, Skyrim, hell even Mass Effect (1), or Civilization V to take a completely different genre, it almost feels like a waste of disk space.

GW1 stood out, and while it was "niche", that niche was pretty big (7 million units sold); while the PvP was (and, I'd say, still is) best in the genre it could also be played very casually. All you really need to stand out is to have a really good idea.

Well... Somehow I've played it for over 400 hours so it must be good! For me at least :P

I agree though that MMOs tend to be "less good" as games. They seem to sacrifice some things that make a good game stand out in the hopes that community will make up for that loss. And many times, it does.

For example I consider WoW, my first MMO, to be an average game at best, and worse than GW2 in most respects - but I still played it for a couple hundred hours. At first it was because of the novelty of having so many people online at the same time doing stuff in a persistant world. Nothing like the usual lobbies, co-ops and deathmatches I was used to! And when that grew stale, it was a few small guilds - some of them RP - with really nice, creative people that kept me going.

You may say that it is the same with GW2 since I play quite a bit with my buddy, but oddly enough it's not the case. In fact, I often enjoy my solo play sessions more because my buddy is much more focused and driven - I'm more laid back and all over the place, as if I were on a lazy holiday on an island :lol:

It comes down to the playstyle, I feel relaxed when I play GW2. As I said, I consider it to be a very good game. But I don't consider it a classic or a unique experience. It's not Privateer, nor GK2 The Beast Within, nor AvP2, nor Gothic... It scores high marks for its entertainment value, but not for uniqueness or flair.

Edited by Heart Collector, 05 March 2013 - 09:35 AM.


#81 AsgarZigel

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:05 AM

View Postraspberry jam, on 05 March 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

Really? I don't. As I said, it's top class when it comes to MMOs. But seen side by side with other games, it's not really that impressive. I mean, yes, it has its good points; nice graphics and a detailed world. But compared to the likes of Dark Souls, Skyrim, hell even Mass Effect (1), or Civilization V to take a completely different genre, it almost feels like a waste of disk space.

GW1 stood out, and while it was "niche", that niche was pretty big (7 million units sold); while the PvP was (and, I'd say, still is) best in the genre it could also be played very casually. All you really need to stand out is to have a really good idea.

Not necessarily... well except Dark Souls maybe, but that one is really just extraordinarily well designed.
I wouldn't say that GW2 lacks good ideas and a good idea REALLY doesn't make a game, a well-executed conventional idea simply sells way better. Not to mention that time-tested ideas are generally easier to implement.
The problem is not the lack of ideas in general, there are a LOT of small improvements in the game. I tried to play Tera after playing GW2 and while I enjoyed the combat system way more, I just burned out after 2 days because the leveling is so boring. That is what GW2 gets right with it's event system - it's way more fun to level up a character once you get out of the "laundry list" mentality... which they introduced again with the daily system but that's a whole other can of worms.

The big problem with GW2 is that it does have many small good ideas that are at least implemented competently. But it doesn't have the one big gimmick that sells the game. It doesn't have a focus and tries to please everyone... which pretty much never works. Yes, you initially attract lots of different people to the game, but to keep them playing is... challenging to say the least.
All the other big names have at least one Gimmick/Feature that sells them. (even if it doesn't do it all that well)
World of Warcraft is THE PvE / Raiding game, Warhammer Online concentrated on PvP/RvR, Guild Wars 1 also had it's PvP focus and the unusual instanced world, SWTORs selling point was the Bioware story (which I still think is a stupid idea for an MMO).

Of the other games you mentioned, Dark Souls has his infamous difficulty, Skyrims main storyline isn't all that great, but nobody cares because just roaming and exploring the huge world is fun enough, Mass Effect had the story, characters and interesting world, while Civ... it's pretty much the same game over and over again, but always improves upon it's design and adds a new spin on things, like introducing religions or overhauling the combat system. (Which is exactly what people want out of a sequel)

GW2 has lots of small improvements... but it does improve upon a general protomatter of "MMORPG" instead upon Guild Wars 1, which alienates many of the old fans. At the same time it doesn't really have any big feature that it advertises as the main selling point. That's also while that life action trailer was so terrible, the main point they sold it on was "Oooohhh, it's new and unusual!" (Maybe the main PR guy is a Quaggan?)

Right now they seem to push the "living open world" as the main selling point... which I really don't like all that much, because it is one of the weaker parts of the game. The thing they did best, in my opinion, were the jumping puzzles and dungeons, simply because they make me feel like an explorer and adventurer... instead of a boy-scout or Thrahearnnes personal bitch. (Can't judge the PvP modes because I don't play them much), that's also why I still play it, it's fun  for me to play dungeons with friends.

So, bottom line: it's not the lack of good ideas that makes GW2 more meh than awesome. It's more the inability to focus on a core theme / message / gameplay element that kind of borked it up. Basically feature creep on a grand scale, but with a team that still is competent enough to create a game that's at least pretty good in MMORPG terms.

#82 Heart Collector

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:10 AM

View PostAsgarZigel, on 05 March 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:


<snip>

So, bottom line: it's not the lack of good ideas that makes GW2 more meh than awesome. It's more the inability to focus on a core theme / message / gameplay element that kind of borked it up.

Very good read. And indeed I agree that its more spread out nature and lack of focus does bring it down a couple of notches, and I think it's the reason that I consider it to be very good but not a classic, as I said before.

#83 raspberry jam

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:29 PM

View PostAsgarZigel, on 05 March 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

Not necessarily... well except Dark Souls maybe, but that one is really just extraordinarily well designed.
I wouldn't say that GW2 lacks good ideas and a good idea REALLY doesn't make a game, a well-executed conventional idea simply sells way better. Not to mention that time-tested ideas are generally easier to implement.
The problem is not the lack of ideas in general, there are a LOT of small improvements in the game. I tried to play Tera after playing GW2 and while I enjoyed the combat system way more, I just burned out after 2 days because the leveling is so boring. That is what GW2 gets right with it's event system - it's way more fun to level up a character once you get out of the "laundry list" mentality... which they introduced again with the daily system but that's a whole other can of worms.

The big problem with GW2 is that it does have many small good ideas that are at least implemented competently. But it doesn't have the one big gimmick that sells the game. It doesn't have a focus and tries to please everyone... which pretty much never works. Yes, you initially attract lots of different people to the game, but to keep them playing is... challenging to say the least.
All the other big names have at least one Gimmick/Feature that sells them. (even if it doesn't do it all that well)
World of Warcraft is THE PvE / Raiding game, Warhammer Online concentrated on PvP/RvR, Guild Wars 1 also had it's PvP focus and the unusual instanced world, SWTORs selling point was the Bioware story (which I still think is a stupid idea for an MMO).

Of the other games you mentioned, Dark Souls has his infamous difficulty, Skyrims main storyline isn't all that great, but nobody cares because just roaming and exploring the huge world is fun enough, Mass Effect had the story, characters and interesting world, while Civ... it's pretty much the same game over and over again, but always improves upon it's design and adds a new spin on things, like introducing religions or overhauling the combat system. (Which is exactly what people want out of a sequel)

GW2 has lots of small improvements... but it does improve upon a general protomatter of "MMORPG" instead upon Guild Wars 1, which alienates many of the old fans. At the same time it doesn't really have any big feature that it advertises as the main selling point. That's also while that life action trailer was so terrible, the main point they sold it on was "Oooohhh, it's new and unusual!" (Maybe the main PR guy is a Quaggan?)

Right now they seem to push the "living open world" as the main selling point... which I really don't like all that much, because it is one of the weaker parts of the game. The thing they did best, in my opinion, were the jumping puzzles and dungeons, simply because they make me feel like an explorer and adventurer... instead of a boy-scout or Thrahearnnes personal bitch. (Can't judge the PvP modes because I don't play them much), that's also why I still play it, it's fun  for me to play dungeons with friends.

So, bottom line: it's not the lack of good ideas that makes GW2 more meh than awesome. It's more the inability to focus on a core theme / message / gameplay element that kind of borked it up. Basically feature creep on a grand scale, but with a team that still is competent enough to create a game that's at least pretty good in MMORPG terms.
A good idea makes a game stand out, is what I said. Standing out doesn't mean that it is good or that it'll sell well, and selling well certainly doesn't mean that it's good or that it stands out (GW2 already sold well despite not being good). You are right though, what Dark Souls depend on, its "novel" idea (not really novel, but not many other devs dare to attempt it on this scale these days) is its high level of difficulty, together with its peculiar form of PvP. Both Skyrim and Civ V draws upon being sequels to good games, it's more and better of what was already there (or in the case of Civ V, less and better). But IMO that especially makes these last two games not stand out. They sell well, yes, but ultimately Skyrim is just Oblivion with better graphics. That doesn't mean it's not good though. But it will be forgotten when the next Elder Scrolls game comes out.

GW2 has a couple of good ideas in it, but they are not very well executed. IMO the events system is absolutely not a novel idea - that has been seen before in various ways, the GW2 version is just one possible way to do this kind of content. I do agree though on that GW2 is just a bunch of small improvements on the typical generic standard MMO gameplay.

To keep people playing is not challenging. Gimmicks to make people stay does not work. Good, solid, fun gameplay does. The reason is that if the root of attraction is in the gameplay itself, the game lasts as long as people enjoy the gameplay, while if the attraction is due to a gimmick, it lasts until the next game with a gimmick catches people's interest.

I think your analysis is almost correct. I'd say that yes, there were good ideas in GW2. And yes, they messed up and focus on the wrong thing, and many of the things they could have done right they did wrong. But the most important failure though, is that GW2 is a generic MMO. It is not Guild Wars, part 2.
It's almost literally as if they just reused the name without caring about what it meant.

#84 Millimidget

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 03:41 PM

View PostRitualist, on 04 March 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

I think that GW2 reflects the MMO genre - if GW2 is the best thing in the genre, clearly the genre needs changing because the best thing in the genre isn't an amazing game.
I can certainly agree that the genre has designed itself into the crapper.

#85 aspi

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 05:51 PM

View PostAsgarZigel, on 05 March 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:


Of the other games you mentioned, Dark Souls has his infamous difficulty, Skyrims main storyline isn't all that great, but nobody cares because just roaming and exploring the huge world is fun enough, Mass Effect had the story, characters and interesting world, while Civ.




DS is only fun for diehards, MMORPG is nothing like that because there are not enough of those "freaks" around. And Skyrim is utterly boring with a big world full of nothing.

#86 Millimidget

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:57 AM

View Postraspberry jam, on 05 March 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

Civilization V to take a completely different genre, it almost feels like a waste of disk space.
That's saying alot, because CiV actually is a waste of disc space. CIV, on the other hand, was a terrific game.


View Postaspi, on 05 March 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

And Skyrim is utterly boring with a big world full of nothing.
I take it you're not big on exploring game worlds.

Edited by Millimidget, 06 March 2013 - 11:58 AM.


#87 Coren

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:10 PM

You know what they say. Doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition if insanity.

And if someone tells me to stop quoting Far Cry 3, I'll say that I knew that saying before phylosophical psycho Vaas came round.

#88 raspberry jam

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:54 PM

View PostMillimidget, on 06 March 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

That's saying alot, because CiV actually is a waste of disc space. CIV, on the other hand, was a terrific game.
I assume that you are talking about V and IV, respectively. Or maybe the original Civilization, which was awesome in its own right. I actually think that V isn't that bad, especially with Gods & Kings. Some things, I think, are actually improvements over IV.

#89 Ship Soo

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:58 PM

So much anger in this thread.

Someone states their opinion on the game (I hate it, there is nothing to do), to which someone replies with a possible solution (work towards your legendary, do WvW, etc) only to have the previous poster get even angrier with a "don't tell me how to play the game".

Look, its nearly impossible with most people to change their opinion. No one on here is going to convince me I like or don't like this game.

It happens that I love GW 2.

I also happen to hate cauliflower. None of you will ever convince me to like it. No amount of forum chat will ever get me to like it.

I guess I just don't understand for one iota, the amount of anger this game is causing people.

ITS A FREAKING GAME PEOPLE. Reality check

Its sole purpose is to provide you with entertainment. Period. All those posters who were talking about "tangible benefits" and "real achievements" "worthwhile goals"...ITS A FREAKING VIDEO GAME.

What do you WANT ? An MBA when you are done with that dungeon? A 6-pack of abs when the fractal is done?

The moment the game becomes boring to me, I'm gone (just like Diablo 3...shudder).

Everyone saying " oh but you just don't get it! The game has massive flaws !" YES, to YOU it does. I disagree completely. Which one of us is right ? Let's take a poll ! That will settle it !

Or better yet, let's just do what Infisio suggested and go play the games we actually like. There is nothing wrong in that.

Edited by Ship Soo, 06 March 2013 - 01:04 PM.

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#90 raspberry jam

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:41 PM

View PostShip Soo, on 06 March 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

So much anger in this thread.

Someone states their opinion on the game (I hate it, there is nothing to do), to which someone replies with a possible solution (work towards your legendary, do WvW, etc) only to have the previous poster get even angrier with a "don't tell me how to play the game".

Look, its nearly impossible with most people to change their opinion. No one on here is going to convince me I like or don't like this game.

It happens that I love GW 2.

I also happen to hate cauliflower. None of you will ever convince me to like it. No amount of forum chat will ever get me to like it.

I guess I just don't understand for one iota, the amount of anger this game is causing people.

ITS A FREAKING GAME PEOPLE. Reality check

Its sole purpose is to provide you with entertainment. Period. All those posters who were talking about "tangible benefits" and "real achievements" "worthwhile goals"...ITS A FREAKING VIDEO GAME.

What do you WANT ? An MBA when you are done with that dungeon? A 6-pack of abs when the fractal is done?

The moment the game becomes boring to me, I'm gone (just like Diablo 3...shudder).

Everyone saying " oh but you just don't get it! The game has massive flaws !" YES, to YOU it does. I disagree completely. Which one of us is right ? Let's take a poll ! That will settle it !

Or better yet, let's just do what Infisio suggested and go play the games we actually like. There is nothing wrong in that.
It has a lot to do with what ANet told us that the game would be, and what it could have been, or even what it could become.

Also, people paid for something, and spent a lot of time on something, which now turns out to be shit. Are they supposed to just walk away from their investment? Video games is probably the only area where consumer rights get the "but if you don't think it's fun, just don't do it" treatment. Like, say you buy a loaf of bread and you find that it isn't properly baked?

"Bread is supposed to taste good, if you don't like it then don't eat it lol"

Really? :rolleyes:




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