204 replies to this topic

[rukia]

Lordkrall, on 27 February 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

And yet you assume that these missions are made for your kind of guild. Which is quite clearly not the case.
The fact that the missions themselves does require a rather high amount of players should be a clear indicator. Such as the bounty missions that needs you to kill a certain number of Legendary tier mobs (in different zones) within a rather short period of time.
This is impossible without a rather high amount of players, since you need to split up.

Oh ok, so much for dynamic scaling then right?

[Lordkrall]

rukia, on 27 February 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

Oh ok, so much for dynamic scaling then right?

Ah, yes because dynamic scaling is supposed to make a full-group event easily completed with less than a full group, right?

Group events don't scale lower than, you know, groups.

The events are SUPPOSED to be for big groups of players, they won't scale them down so a 5 man guild can complete it, just because they are a 5-man guild.

[rukia]

Lordkrall, on 27 February 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

Ah, yes because dynamic scaling is supposed to make a full-group event easily completed with less than a full group, right?

Group events don't scale lower than, you know, groups.

The events are SUPPOSED to be for big groups of players, they won't scale them down so a 5 man guild can complete it, just because they are a 5-man guild.

Way to exaggerate, I have 10 active players that are on every day, it doesn't have to be easy but doable. It's not fair to smaller guilds, especially without things like alliances. Like you said, it's not designed for smaller guilds, wasn't refuting that, it's simply not fair. You might not care because you are in a 500 player guild with a bunch of no names but trust me this will affect a lot of people.

[nenne86]

Hellspawn2323, on 27 February 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

My small guild cannot afford guild missions sad day for my guild and the game developement.

That's not true, I'm in a 2-people-guild and we just bought the 30 influence for 60 gold. Obviously a smaller guild has a harder time getting it (doesn't matter whether you buy it for gold or farm influence), but thats the case in the whole game.

And even if you got 0 influence and not even tier 1 in art of war it's less than 100 gold to buy it.

The only group of people I could think of are casual players in really small guilds that will be unable to do these things.

[Azure Skye]

rukia, on 27 February 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

Way to exaggerate, I have 10 active players that are on every day, it doesn't have to be easy but doable. It's not fair to smaller guilds, especially without things like alliances. Like you said, it's not designed for smaller guilds, wasn't refuting that, it's simply not fair. You might not care because you are in a 500 player guild with a bunch of no names but trust me this will affect a lot of people.

why do you need to do it now oppose of waiting to get it? Nothing has changed only adding content to the people that wanted Raids in GW2 and here they are.

[rukia]

Azure Skye, on 27 February 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

why do you need to do it now oppose of waiting to get it? Nothing has changed only adding content to the people that wanted Raids in GW2 and here they are.

I'm not, why are you opposed to equal footing?

[Lordkrall]

rukia, on 27 February 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

Way to exaggerate, I have 10 active players that are on every day, it doesn't have to be easy but doable. It's not fair to smaller guilds, especially without things like alliances. Like you said, it's not designed for smaller guilds, wasn't refuting that, it's simply not fair. You might not care because you are in a 500 player guild with a bunch of no names but trust me this will affect a lot of people.

So it is more fair that those big guilds have had nothing the whole guild could do together since release?
Everything in the whole game (until yesterday) was fully possible for your small guild to do without much trouble.

[nenne86]

rukia, on 27 February 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

I'm not, why are you opposed to equal footing?

it's equal... you both got the same choices (join a big guild or a small guild or even something in between - get the ascended gear by doing guild missions, by doing fractals or buy em for laurels)

[rukia]

Lordkrall, on 27 February 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

So it is more fair that those big guilds have had nothing the whole guild could do together since release?
Everything in the whole game (until yesterday) was fully possible for your small guild to do without much trouble.

Lol, that's my point.... so far everyone has been on equal ground, until now.

Small or big guild it doesn't matter in this aspect we had just as little to do as anyone else aside from the typical dungeon runs or WvW, spvp, etc.

Basically what you're saying is small guilds aren't as important or valid for the content when that's not true. If there were alliances, this entire problem wouldn't exist at all. Can't believe that hasn't made it into GW2, but then again nothing from GW1 is allowed.

[Azure Skye]

Lordkrall, on 27 February 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

So it is more fair that those big guilds have had nothing the whole guild could do together since release?
Everything in the whole game (until yesterday) was fully possible for your small guild to do without much trouble.

Hold that thought, we have did have WvW but everyone complains they are getting killed alot without playing with people or group. Atlas not everyone wants to WvW at all unless its for the badges for the legendary and only going to the JP to get them and not help out the relam a bit.

[Lordkrall]

rukia, on 27 February 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

Lol, that's my point.... so far everyone has been on equal ground, until now.

Small or big guild it doesn't matter in this aspect we had just as little to do as anyone else aside from the typical dungeon runs or WvW, spvp, etc.

Basically what you're saying is small guilds aren't as important or valid for the content when that's not true. If there were alliances, this entire problem wouldn't exist at all. Can't believe that hasn't made it into GW2, but then again nothing from GW1 is allowed.

Incorrect. Not everyone have been on equal footing. Bigger guilds have been at an disadvantage, seeing the whole guild could not do stuff together without making it completely trivial.

Azure Skye, on 27 February 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

Hold that thought, we have did have WvW but everyone complains they are getting killed alot without playing with people or group. Atlas not everyone wants to WvW at all unless its for the badges for the legendary and only going to the JP to get them and not help out the relam a bit.

Queues did stop big guilds though.

[rukia]

Lordkrall, on 27 February 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

Incorrect. Not everyone have been on equal footing. Bigger guilds have been at an disadvantage, seeing the whole guild could not do stuff together without making it completely trivial.

That's a scaling problem though, and it's a problem for any decent amount of players running around together, general mob HP needs to be massively buffed in events except for champs and vets, along with rewards. The shrines in Orr take a good amount of people.

[d_fens]

nenne86, on 27 February 2013 - 09:39 PM, said:

That's not true, I'm in a 2-people-guild and we just bought the 30 influence for 60 gold. Obviously a smaller guild has a harder time getting it (doesn't matter whether you buy it for gold or farm influence), but thats the case in the whole game.

And even if you got 0 influence and not even tier 1 in art of war it's less than 100 gold to buy it.

The only group of people I could think of are casual players in really small guilds that will be unable to do these things.

You know, 60 gold is alot of cash to dump just to unlock the content. And it's only the first step. Next unlocks cost more influence and merits. Your 2 ppl guild might just wasted money on this, as you won't be able to complete missions you unlocked on your own. Sure, other ppl might help, especially if they count to get full rewards (which they won't get).

[Jump_N_Move]

I dont mind the 30k influence but why did they have to put it at tier 5 of art of war. That just doubles the cost.

[beadnbutter32]

Traveller, on 26 February 2013 - 06:22 PM, said:

So basically smaller guilds are screwed. Earlier there was talk about people being able to join on missions others have created, is there any info on how this actually works? What kind of rewards do you get in those cases? Are smaller guilds just doomed to being locked out of this content since they can't earn enough influence?

Only the members of the guild that pulls the mission, get the good rewards.  You can help all you want, but when the rewards are laid out, if your not a member of the guild that started the mission, you get zilch.  Yea that's really gonna make inter guild cooperation happen.

[Hellspawn2323]

Lordkrall, on 27 February 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

And yet you assume that these missions are made for your kind of guild. Which is quite clearly not the case.
The fact that the missions themselves does require a rather high amount of players should be a clear indicator. Such as the bounty missions that needs you to kill a certain number of Legendary tier mobs (in different zones) within a rather short period of time.
This is impossible without a rather high amount of players, since you need to split up.

Your 100% Wrong heres why. Guild Missions are suppose to be 20+ man thats not ALOT of players Infact a Small guild usually has 20-30 active members... The problem is your average small guild only produces around 2000 Influence a day. But the Requirement too unlock Guild Missions is 300,000 Influence which means it would take 150 days (average) nearly 5 months of Grinding too be able to them even though they have more then enough players.

Plus dont forget some guilds who have more then enough players to do the content also have lives like work families and other responsibilities. So why should a community of 50 members be punished just because they dont have the time too NEEDLESSLY grind Influence so they can do "The Fun Stuff".

The Challenge of a Guild Mission shouldnt be in the aquasition of obtaining permission to enter one... The Challenge should be the content itself!!!

This is the sign of poor development and lack of content design. The introduced a Grind for guilds too keep us online so they can string out this small content update over a long period of time.

This is no diffrent then raid lock outs in WoW or other time sinks in other MMO's with a lack of content to drive it player base into being active...

[Craywulf]

The notion that there's a small guild vs big guild issue is entirely moot considering that player has the opportunity to join multiple guilds. In other words if you feel guild missions unfairly cater to large guilds then you have 3 options.

1. join/represent a larger guild.
2. help recruit more players to your understaffed guild
3. don't bother with guild missions.

[Gli]

You forgot one:

4. find game that doesn't discourage your play style.

[Azure Skye]

Gli, on 28 February 2013 - 01:42 AM, said:

You forgot one:

4. find game that doesn't discourage your play style.

Why do you want to do the guild missions now? o.O

[Xai]

rukia, on 27 February 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

Lol, that's my point.... so far everyone has been on equal ground, until now.

Not really. Solo players are still shafted in terms of drops.

I don't know what Anet has against people who don't party it up all the time.

Edited by Xai, 28 February 2013 - 01:59 AM.

[Tregarde]

Xai, on 28 February 2013 - 01:58 AM, said:

Not really. Solo players are still shafted in terms of drops.

I don't know what Anet has against people who don't party it up all the time.

It's not as bad after the patch. If you read the patch notes, they say they made adjustments so people not grouped will not be left out on loot. From my experience just last night, this looks to be true. I don't know if people in a group will still have better loot, but running solo I did notice a definite improvement.

[Millimidget]

asbasb, on 26 February 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

Up until the announcement of guild missions, there were threads being created on a weekly bases criticizing the lack of incentives for joining a guild.

There were threads being made on a daily basis about the ridiculous costs of precursors.

Just another case of the developer seeing what they want to see, I guess.

[Gli]

Azure Skye, on 28 February 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

Why do you want to do the guild missions now? o.O

Why do you waste time writing bullcrap non sequiturs in a vain attempt to make a clever point about someone you don't know the first thing about?

[Azure Skye]

Gli, on 28 February 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

Why do you waste time writing bullcrap non sequiturs in a vain attempt to make a clever point about someone you don't know the first thing about?

Why are you still here, when you clearly hate the game? There are ways around it to get it, the Guild Misson. It just take time.

[Trei]

I cannot think of a single good reason to not have entry level missions be unlockable at tier 1.

Higher tiers could be for larger scale missions that smaller guilds could choose not to upgrade to.

[Gli]

Azure Skye, on 28 February 2013 - 03:33 AM, said:

Why are you still here, when you clearly hate the game? There are ways around it to get it, the Guild Misson. It just take time.

I "clearly" hate the game? Please, you're doing it again, assuming you know something about me.

I'm disappointed with the game. Two months running with no substantial, accessible new content. I don't even care about the guild bounties, actually. They sound boring. Running around for a bit and zerg a few bosses? That's, like, what we've been doing for 6 months in the open world. So now there's a timer on it, big deal.

[Magi]

Craywulf, on 28 February 2013 - 01:39 AM, said:

The notion that there's a small guild vs big guild issue is entirely moot considering that player has the opportunity to join multiple guilds. In other words if you feel guild missions unfairly cater to large guilds then you have 3 options.

1. join/represent a larger guild.
2. help recruit more players to your understaffed guild
3. don't bother with guild missions.

I'll address your three points.

1. Most large guilds require 100% representation. That isn't going to happen for most players who are satisfied with their guild, but want to do missions.

2. Quality vs. Quantity. Spam recruit lowbies and bads to farm influence off of them, sure, but I would wager that the majority of small guilds are small to avoid this.

3. That's an asinine statement. Look at all of the rewards you can gain via commendations. Ascended trinkets being the most prominent. Yes, I'm aware that you can purchase them with Laurels, but it would take several months to get the trinkets you need, as opposed to a few weeks with the current system.

It's unreasonable, broken, and poorly thought-out. People should stop defending such a terribly prohibitive content update.

[drkn]

Quote

1. Most large guilds require 100% representation. That isn't going to happen for most players who are satisfied with their guild, but want to do missions.

Except that big guilds are comprised of circles, and circles within circles, and circles that merrily overlap each other and mix up. It's not a big zergish blob that will automatically dumb you down the moment you join it with your friends. I really never understood the reasoning behind keeping to a small guild or playing solo in a game where you have guild influence you build over time, and in MMOs in general. Tiny guilds simply never ever work to enjoy the game to its fullest, while you are not torn away from your friends and thrown into a wicked maelstrom of strangers in a big guild.
More elaborate arguments behind my reasoning can be found here, please read if you intend to argue so i don't need to repeat myself.

[WrathfulForce]

drkn, on 28 February 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

Except that big guilds are comprised of circles, and circles within circles, and circles that merrily overlap each other and mix up. It's not a big zergish blob that will automatically dumb you down the moment you join it with your friends. I really never understood the reasoning behind keeping to a small guild or playing solo in a game where you have guild influence you build over time, and in MMOs in general. Tiny guilds simply never ever work to enjoy the game to its fullest, while you are not torn away from your friends and thrown into a wicked maelstrom of strangers in a big guild.
More elaborate arguments behind my reasoning can be found here, please read if you intend to argue so i don't need to repeat myself.

I read your arguments in the post you linked. I disagree with a lot of them.I've got experience of different sized guilds so I know how good the large guilds can be but also know the downsides.
Here's few reasons why people don't want to be a megaguild: a) noise b)no commitment c)guild can be full of strangers that may not be the type of players you want to be around with at all.

A lot of players want to be in a guild that have the same type of mindset (ie. pvp, wvw, pve focused, dungeon running focused guild and so on) and even though you can form your own "circle" inside a megaguild, it's not the same as being a guild only with players that share your mindset. Alliances were awesome for this in GW1 as you could have your rather small ~25-50 player guild and still be a part of a bigger picture without having to "suffer" from the negative aspects of  megaguild (don't get me wrong, megaguilds have a lot of great advantages but there are also disadvantages).

So, to briefly go through to abc reasons. Noise: sure you can just turn guild chat off if you don't want to see it but what's the point of guild chat then? No commitment and guild members can be entirely different type of players that you want to really hang around with. This is essentially the idea why some people don't want to be in megaguilds as they feel that they are just a part of a hub where they know only their close friends, not everyone wants to use guilds as hubs. They want to get to know most of the players within the guild and to my experience that is very difficult inside a very large guild because of the small circles that people are already part of.

Overall, to me it seems that the idea of large guild's advantages are basically the same as they are in GW1 alliances (minus the guild buffs which are not all that essential). The small groups (as you presented, circles) of megaguilds would just be their own guilds and as a whole they'd form an aliance with an alliance chat and all that good stuff.

So in the end I simply wanted to bring up few reasons why people want to be in their own less populated guilds. Feel free to disagree with them but in the end I feel that when it comes to guild missions it's just silly that they kind of require a player to be a part of a large guild (even though I'm in a lovely position where my guild can afford these upgrades).

I simply cannot understand why the tier 1 missions didn't have very small requirements (or no requirements at all) and higher tiers would have been aimed only at larger guilds. The way they currently are is very depressing for a lot of small guilds and is most likely to cause some small guilds to break down simply because the rewards are too attractive to most players.

edit: not to mention how silly it'd be for the big guilds themselves. People join just to be able to do guild missions with no other intentions :\

Edited by WrathfulForce, 28 February 2013 - 10:53 AM.

[Traveller]

I’m a member of a small guild that fairly often can get a 5-man dungeon group together but sometime has to PUG one or two people. We’re a group of friends that has played other games together before and joined GW2 as well. We’ve looked into recruiting people, but every nice person I’ve met while PUGging has usually had a guild already. Merging with some other guild in a same situation is something we’ve thought about, since none of us really wants to be in a really huge guild (which, ironically enough, would have no trouble doing guild missions.)

The thing is, I don’t feel comfortable at all to leaving my guild and joining a huge one just to be able to do these missions. I wouldn’t feel right towards that other guild either to pop in whenever they’re doing a mission and then just leave. I feel that I should be able to do these things with my own guild.

If you have content that requires 15 people to do, that’s fine, we can always get a group going with other people. But if you have GUILD missions, it sure would be nice to be able to do them with our GUILD, however small it would be. Otherwise ANet needs to say this content is for large guilds only, unless you’re willing to guildswap.