204 replies to this topic

[dss_live]

Kitanul, on 26 February 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

Take about 2 week for my small guild to built up 10k point, we have 10 ppl active everyday, up to 20 who play every week, and about 20 other ppl who log about once a month, oh and about 10 who stopped playing around 1 month after the release, i should kick those out... make the count, we have 50 member. Will see...

I just hope if we can make 2 or 3 group(our max) we will be able to do this stuff, if we need more, its gonna get wacky.

the guild i'm in has about 15 ppl in it, and about 3-5 ppl that are pretty much online msot of the time. We get enough influence to unlock these events in roughly a month. and we are okay with that, a monthly guild mission is great. So what if you can't grind it on a daily basis? was never the intention and if you want to anyway you can still get regular rewards for joining with others

Vancext, on 26 February 2013 - 06:04 PM, said:

Yeah, I have to echo the concern that my guild of 5 won't be able to participate. Even the influence for entry is fairly daunting. Hoping this doesn't end up being the case.

then save up the influence and when ou get the amount you can reach out to fellow small guilds and friends to join you on your guild mission. Sure it might take awhille to get the influence (if you don't buy any , since that can speed things up) but you'll still be able to do the content.

Traveller, on 26 February 2013 - 06:22 PM, said:

So basically smaller guilds are screwed. Earlier there was talk about people being able to join on missions others have created, is there any info on how this actually works? What kind of rewards do you get in those cases? Are smaller guilds just doomed to being locked out of this content since they can't earn enough influence?

Small guilds aer not screwed, think i've said it enough times to be clear about what i mean by that. These events happen in the open world, just like DE's. So you can just walk in like with any other DE.

Small guilds CAN earn the influence needed, it jsut takes a bit longer. ITs an MMO , ment to be played for awhile. Isn't it good that they added something ppl can't jsut rush through only to complain afterwards there is nothing to do?

[Khalija]

ZAM also has a pretty detailed article on guild missions: http://www.zam.com/s...tml?story=31921

[AsgarZigel]

Eon Lilu said:

Problem was Arena Net messed up those events where it does not take any organisation, everyone just spams 1 a zerg and wins the event...

You are definitely right with that, I'm not saying that they shouldn't fix their past mistakes, but I just don't see right now how the guild missions are bad for the game at large. Even for the small guilds, effectively not much changes, they have a new long-term goal or a reason to expand / make alliances with other guilds and at worst it just means new potentially fun events in the world to participate in for the usual rewards. (How fun they actually are remains to be seen)

I don't know, I just don't get the whole loot and reward craze. There is new content and they did something many players requested. (guild stuff and large scale content)
I don't get why you guys don't just say "It's not for me" and move on, I do the same with PvP updates. Not for me, but helps the game grow in the large scheme of things.

[Firstborn12]

I can honesty see guilds in LA or certain areas spamming " starting Guild Event, come join our guild to earn Full reward" I see it as win-win, guild gets more to help with MIssion and possiblly, people that might stay after the event, and people get full reward from event, if there is no limited on how many Guild MIssion a person can do per day, you could get 12 commendations in no time at all, you could prolly get more than that within a day than just 12.

And as far as earning enough Influence, all you need is 5 Guild members farmming in Orr. you get around 2g per hour with the loot you get at least. Put that into buying Influence and you got 5k worth, more if you count just doing the Events together.

[Sheepski]

dss_live, on 26 February 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

it wouldn't kill you to be social.

For me, it pretty much would... but that's my own problem in life

[Azure Skye]

dss_live, on 26 February 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

the guild i'm in has about 15 ppl in it, and about 3-5 ppl that are pretty much online msot of the time. We get enough influence to unlock these events in roughly a month. and we are okay with that, a monthly guild mission is great. So what if you can't grind it on a daily basis? was never the intention and if you want to anyway you can still get regular rewards for joining with others



then save up the influence and when ou get the amount you can reach out to fellow small guilds and friends to join you on your guild mission. Sure it might take awhille to get the influence (if you don't buy any , since that can speed things up) but you'll still be able to do the content.



Small guilds aer not screwed, think i've said it enough times to be clear about what i mean by that. These events happen in the open world, just like DE's. So you can just walk in like with any other DE.

Small guilds CAN earn the influence needed, it jsut takes a bit longer. ITs an MMO , ment to be played for awhile. Isn't it good that they added something ppl can't jsut rush through only to complain afterwards there is nothing to do?

Its the small chance of precursor that people are looking at and not the long term.

[El Duderino]

Azure Skye, on 26 February 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

An another currencies now? o.O

Just another way to make it easier for everyone to get new gear as it progresses. I wonder why even bother having a vertical gear progression if they are just going to make it super easy to acquire new gear. Wouldn't it just be easier to nix the whole thing and work on fixing WvW or PvP or add new content?

[dss_live]

Sheepski, on 26 February 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

For me, it pretty much would... but that's my own problem in life

haha

Azure Skye, on 26 February 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

Its the small chance of precursor that people are looking at and not the long term.

damn people and their impatience (and i'm saying that as someone who is looking for a precursor himself too) enjoy the game, it aint going anywhere , no need to rush things

[MartianChild]

Thank goodness, so hard to get smaller guilds to do things together

[Mura]

They're putting the Guild in Guild Wars 2!  booyaaaaa

[Tyrantscreed]

Lol yep, one of the benefits of larger PvE guilds is that I don't have to wait and suck on my thumb to get a party rolling. Honestly, for people who have limited game time, waiting around for people to log-in or tag along with you can get pretty annoying.

Edited by Tyrantscreed, 26 February 2013 - 08:12 PM.

[dss_live]

Tyrantscreed, on 26 February 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

Lol yep, one of the benefits of larger PvE guilds is that I don't have to wait and suck on my thumb to get a party rolling. Honestly, for people who have limited game time, waiting around for people to log-in or tag along with you can get pretty annoying.

thats what orginizing is for discuss a date that works for all your guildies and you'll have the ppl  online needed to  do the mission. Never leave things like this to luck

[Tyrantscreed]

dss_live, on 26 February 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

thats what orginizing is for discuss a date that works for all your guildies and you'll have the ppl  online needed to  do the mission. Never leave things like this to luck

We do that We have forums, and calenders with event dates. I'm just a spontaneous person. I log-in and if I'm in the mood to do something, I do it.

Also some people have IRL obligations, so even set stoned date may not work out as intended.

EDIT: The good thing about that is, whenever I log-in (and fiddle with the TP a bit), everyone knows that a guild event is about to happen

WvW / Dungeons / Fractals / Temple Clears / World Bosses (if they are about to spawn) and now Guild Missions are on my to-do list.

Edited by Tyrantscreed, 26 February 2013 - 09:04 PM.

[Omedon]

Eon Lilu, on 26 February 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

Not liking how alot of it is based on time limits. I don't like time trial type gameplay...

100% with you here.  Most of my guild saw that and said "Yeeeaaah... never mind."

asbasb, on 26 February 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

Up until the announcement of guild missions, there were threads being created on a weekly bases criticizing the lack of incentives for joining a guild. People wanted to tangible rewards for being a guild. A good social experience, emblems and influence boosts were not enough.

Sociability that occurs as a result of incentives is poisonous, and dependant on said incentive.

Edited by Omedon, 26 February 2013 - 09:22 PM.

[Omedon]

asbasb, on 26 February 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

Players wouldn't do guild missions if they didn't feel they were worth it. 5% more gold per minute played compared to dungeons and dragons(lol) wouldn't have been a good enough incentive, just as ascended gear needs the be a significant amount more powerful than exotics to be worth the grind. That's the way most players work, or at least the ones GW2 wants to satisfy.

It does appear that incentive has taken the place of fun.

I miss this guy:

http://www.arena.net...easures-success

Quote

When your game systems are designed to achieve the prime motivation of a subscription-based MMO, you run the risk of sacrificing quality to get as much content in as possible to fill that time. You get leveling systems that take insane amounts of grind to gain a level, loot drop systems that require doing a dungeon with a tiny chance the item you want can drop at the end, raid systems that need huge numbers of people online simultaneously to organize and play, thousands of wash/repeat item-collection or kill-mob quests or dailies with flavor text support, the best stat gear requiring crazy amounts of time to earn, etc.
But what if your business model isn’t based on a subscription? What if your content-design motivations aren’t driven by the need to create mechanics that keep people playing as long as possible? When looking at content design forGuild Wars 2, we’ve tried to ask the question: What if the development of the game was based on…wait for it…fun?"

(bold added by me)

Edited by Omedon, 26 February 2013 - 09:37 PM.

[Khalija]

Quote

Sorry for the confusion guys. Here’s the way it works:

• When your guild activates a bounty mission, it will be displayed in the new missions tab with a list of targets to kill in a 15 minute window (2 – 7 depending on tier).
  
• The targets are NPCs who already spawned on the maps. There is a clue as to what map they’ll be on for each target. They can be ANYWHERE on the map. Some of them are easier to find than others.
  
• Only guilds with the mission active can start a fight with a bounty. Everyone else will see them as a non-combatant.
  
• When the bounty is killed, it is respawned somewhere else for immediate re-use.
  
• If you participated in the event to take the bounty down, you will immediately receive your personal reward for guild bounties for that week and your guild will receive completion credit for that target.
  
• Once your guild completes all the targets (within the time limit) merits will be awarded to the guild.
  
• Merits are used to unlock new upgrades and other types of missions, so it pays to successfully complete your bounty hunts.

[Source]

[Omedon]

Wow, I just looked at the rewards for doing guild missions and... I suddenly almost feel sorry for large guild leaders who will have the membership knocking on their foreheads to run missions early, often, and "when I can make it" for the precursors and other personal rewards.  Not to mention all of the new guild temp perks are rather pricey and will require crazy influence income to maintain with any degree of regularity.

I suddenly am almost relieved that it's not even worth it for my guild to even go near activating this content, and look forward to assisting in whatever guild missions I see popping up around me, with no pressure, timer, or sense of urgency to "get the karma's worth" out of the encounter.

Good luck, O ginormous guild leaders.  Seriously, I'm not being ironic, I do not envy the role this content puts you in.  I certainly am glad I don't have to compose the policies that would fairly govern the use of these features.

Edited by Omedon, 26 February 2013 - 10:34 PM.

[Shiren]

This has been a terrible week for me. First the SoS server is practically disbanding over WvW issues so the community is being torn apart by that with guilds disbanding all over the place, and now my small PvE guilds have begun to disband. People were looking at the new ascended items (ascended trinkets, so now all trinkets can be ascended) and they quickly realised that the best way to obtain them was through Guild Commendations earned from guild missions. They also quickly realised even if our small guilds could complete one or two of them, they would be far better off in a massive guild that builds multiple at the same time, already has multiple trees unlocked and can trigger as many as possible (because the grind to build the ability to have guild missions, never mind the time period to build them all is simply crazy for some guilds, there are like three or four barriers of entry before you even reach the content). In a short period of time I've seen several people log in and decide to join the bigger guilds on the server in hopes they would be better provided for there.

Good job ArenaNet.

[Omedon]

Shiren, on 26 February 2013 - 10:50 PM, said:

This has been a terrible week for me. First the SoS server is practically disbanding over WvW issues so the community is being torn apart by that with guilds disbanding all over the place, and now my small PvE guilds have begun to disband. People were looking at the new ascended items (ascended trinkets, so now all trinkets can be ascended) and they quickly realised that the best way to obtain them was through Guild Commendations earned from guild missions. They also quickly realised even if our small guilds could complete one or two of them, they would be far better off in a massive guild that builds multiple at the same time, already has multiple trees unlocked and can trigger as many as possible (because the grind to build the ability to have guild missions, never mind the time period to build them all is simply crazy for some guilds, there are like three or four barriers of entry before you even reach the content). In a short period of time I've seen several people log in and decide to join the bigger guilds on the server in hopes they would be better provided for there.

Good job ArenaNet.

See... and, I'm so not smiling at your funeral here, but hear me out...

That's the genius of this system.  I'm suddenly seeing it, and I am pulling a complete 180 on the emergent community dynamic of this.

Those "guilds," those "communities" that are dissolving as a result of this decision of "friends or loot," choosing loot over friends, are doing two things:

1) They are self filtered.  You know who your friends really are.  Nothing, NOTHING being offered by this new system, is worth ditching your friends for.  So those that ditch... that's revelatory self filtration.  Soak it up and consider your inner circles cleansed and purged.

2) They become public content generators.  Let the giant guilds amalgamate and grow to ridiculous levels.  They're just creating public content for everyone to enjoy.

So look left, and look right.  The one that is no longer to your left because they wanted gear/precursors, they weren't your friend to begin with.  The one on the right, smile, and walk out with them into a world that will now have more events running.

ArenaNet did it again. They took our worst traits, and used them against us to the betterment of the game.

Good job indeed!

Edited by Omedon, 26 February 2013 - 11:00 PM.

[Mockingjay74]

Omedon, on 26 February 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

Wow, I just looked at the rewards for doing guild missions and... I suddenly almost feel sorry for large guild leaders who will have the membership knocking on their foreheads to run missions early, often, and "when I can make it" for the precursors and other personal rewards.  Not to mention all of the new guild temp perks are rather pricey and will require crazy influence income to maintain with any degree of regularity.

I suddenly am almost relieved that it's not even worth it for my guild to even go near activating this content, and look forward to assisting in whatever guild missions I see popping up around me, with no pressure, timer, or sense of urgency to "get the karma's worth" out of the encounter.

Good luck, O ginormous guild leaders.  Seriously, I'm not being ironic, I do not envy the role this content puts you in.  I certainly am glad I don't have to compose the policies that would fairly govern the use of these features.

Guild missions are essentially GW2's raids - we finally have content for large groups!! Gotta admit, I really like the idea of having that sort of pressure. OCD for the win!

I'm really excited to see what this means for future guild-related content. ANet hopefully won't just let the added stress on guild leaders go unnoticed. Chances are they'll add more organizational facets to the guild panel. Wasn't that originally on the table during the betas, some sort of calendar on the guild interface? If not, the new changes will definitely prune out the best guild leaders and those who really shine under pressure. Not to mention that it seems like something that will do wonders for guild cooperation and interaction between people who have to plan all this stuff.

[Azure Skye]

DAMN! The build times for these are alot. @.@

[Resolve]

dss_live, on 26 February 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

There is an entry cost to it, ye.

That.Is.The.Problem.

[Daesu]

There is a bug with the guild bounty mission.  Hold off on that!

https://forum-en.gui...ty-Missions-Bug

[Kitanul]

So, back on the new, my guild need 50 000 influence pts to unlock the first bounty thing... thats more than a month work for us maybe 2 ?. The fifth and last perk in art of war wasnt unlock, it was the last on the list to do, we have almost everything else, and my guild have been running since the game launch with always at least 10 ppl active.

So no new content for us small active team-player for more than a month.
SHould i join this big guild... 210 member with 600 000 free point to use, who have already everything else, just to be able to try the new guild stuff. Its no fun for now, sure we can participate in other guild who have started the thing, but thats if we bump on it when its actually going on.
Its not like its going to be announced on the map or anything.

[Azure Skye]

Shiren, on 26 February 2013 - 10:50 PM, said:

This has been a terrible week for me. First the SoS server is practically disbanding over WvW issues so the community is being torn apart by that with guilds disbanding all over the place, and now my small PvE guilds have begun to disband. People were looking at the new ascended items (ascended trinkets, so now all trinkets can be ascended) and they quickly realised that the best way to obtain them was through Guild Commendations earned from guild missions. They also quickly realised even if our small guilds could complete one or two of them, they would be far better off in a massive guild that builds multiple at the same time, already has multiple trees unlocked and can trigger as many as possible (because the grind to build the ability to have guild missions, never mind the time period to build them all is simply crazy for some guilds, there are like three or four barriers of entry before you even reach the content). In a short period of time I've seen several people log in and decide to join the bigger guilds on the server in hopes they would be better provided for there.

Good job ArenaNet.

Do you understand the word, "fair weather players." They do come back to bite you in the ass.

[Shiren]

Azure Skye, on 27 February 2013 - 04:10 AM, said:

Do you understand the word, "fair weather players." They do come back to bite you in the ass.

Three words, not one. The only thing biting me in the ass is this update, it's making small guilds less attractive to people. Can you honestly falt people for moving onto greener pastures when the game is designed in a way that makes it harder for them to achieve the new gear if they stick with a small guild?

[Azure Skye]

Shiren, on 27 February 2013 - 04:53 AM, said:

Three words, not one. The only thing biting me in the ass is this update, it's making small guilds less attractive to people. Can you honestly falt people for moving onto greener pastures when the game is designed in a way that makes it harder for them to achieve the new gear if they stick with a small guild?

People should think long time stability then instant gratification.  Loot > Friends, i pick friends over loot, i don't really want to be leet to get a small percentage advantage then stabing people in the back but thats me.

[Red_Falcon]

Azure Skye, on 27 February 2013 - 04:10 AM, said:

Do you understand the word, "fair weather players." They do come back to bite you in the ass.

Exactly.
Your people jump ship to get into a larger guild and it's... Arena Net's fault, clearly!
It's totally not that your guild is made by "fair weather guildies" that didn't actually give a damn about the guild.
Since you don't need to actually leave a guild to do missions with another, they weren't forced to leave, they wanted to.

Next time try to build a guild with people who actually care.

Shiren, on 27 February 2013 - 04:53 AM, said:

Three words, not one. The only thing biting me in the ass is this update, it's making small guilds less attractive to people. Can you honestly falt people for moving onto greener pastures when the game is designed in a way that makes it harder for them to achieve the new gear if they stick with a small guild?

That's like saying: "I was having a tough time and my girlfriend cheated on me with another guy, it must totally be that guy's fault! He offered greener pastures and she went for it, can you blame her?".

Get down to the real world, you had shitty people in your guild who didn't give a damn.

Edited by Red_Falcon, 27 February 2013 - 05:20 AM.

[Shiren]

Red_Falcon, on 27 February 2013 - 05:19 AM, said:

Exactly.
Your people jump ship to get into a larger guild and it's... Arena Net's fault, clearly!
It's totally not that your guild is made by "fair weather guildies" that didn't actually give a damn about the guild.
Since you don't need to actually leave a guild to do missions with another, they weren't forced to leave, they wanted to.

Next time try to build a guild with people who actually care.



That's like saying: "I was having a tough time and my girlfriend cheated on me with another guy, it must totally be that guy's fault! He offered greener pastures and she went for it, can you blame her?".

Get down to the real world, you had shitty people in your guild who didn't give a damn.

No, your example is ridiculous and has very little in common with a guild. This is a game not a relationship.

Before this update it didn't matter what size my guild was, the bonuses provided by having a larger guild were very easy to ignore, choosing to be in a smaller guild came at a very small sacrifice. Now ArenaNet has made the primary method of acquiring some of the best rewards in the game require resources gathered by guild events, but they've placed the entry level for these guild events so high, small guilds can't compete with large guilds.

Now small guilds can't offer what big guilds can. In the past, this wasn't a big deal - by being in a small guild you missed out on occasional  15% karma or similair bonuses. Most people can easily ignore those things. Now you are missing out on a large chunk of the guild mission system and the most viable path to ascended accessories. ArenaNet has done this by design with no consideration to small guilds. You have a dramatic advantage over smaller guilds when you are able to offer more content and rewards to them simply because you are bigger and have more influence.

Wanting to participate in the new content and have a good chance at accessing the new rewards doesn't make you a fair weather player. Even if they had stayed, they are in a guild which is going to access this content at a much slower pace - weeks away from doing any of it.

You know why it's ArenaNet's fault? Because they designed a guild content and reward system which is almost completely unusable by the majority of small guilds at a pace which comes remotely close. It dramatically favours the bigger guilds and the rewards are highly desirable. You can only be in four guilds and many guilds (especially the big ones wanting to pump out influence) have stict repping requirements. The design of this system is undeniably harmful to small guilds regardless of how you contest my anecdotal experience with it.

It's not an issue of whether your guild has fair weather players in the first place, it's the fact that ArenaNet has created a system which forces them to make a choice at all.

Edited by Shiren, 27 February 2013 - 06:19 AM.

[d_fens]

Does anyone know what kind of rewards you get if you help with a bointy, but are not in the guild that started it ? Full rewwrd including rares and 50 silver or just normal DE reward?