204 replies to this topic

[zwei2stein]

asbasb, on 26 February 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

Up until the announcement of guild missions, there were threads being created on a weekly bases criticizing the lack of incentives for joining a guild. People wanted to tangible rewards for being a guild. A good social experience, emblems and influence boosts were not enough. Sort of exclusive content and exclusive rewards(at least for the time being) satisfied the people.

And now they got incentive to let smaller guilds wither in exange for bigger annonymous ones.

Guess how people who were happy with guilds as they were feel?

[rukia]

The prices are a joke, I'm in a small guild of actual friends, not one of those insanely large guilds where you don't know anybody, where's the connection in that?

Can't say I'm not disappointed... but can't say that I am either... I expected no less from ANet, really. Just another fail to tally up, sorry for being so negative, but this is a huge blow to smaller parties.

Well, haven't been playing much anyways. *waits for next terrible patch* I feel bad for the people trying to stay in GW2 when ANet consistently punches them in the balls like this.

[Illein]

Have no gripe yet with the guild missions, our first one will unlock on Sunday I believe - will be curious to see how it goes and if it's fun and rewarding to do.

30.000 Influence to unlock it definitely is very steep for smaller guilds, true enough. Though I'd hope that people in micro-guilds (<10 concurrent players online) will organize themselves reasonably to attend these with other guilds until they can kick-off their own guild missions. I definitely like that there is an incentive now to join larger guilds as it benefits me personally and there wasn't anything that catered to larger guilds especially until now (albeit still being available to smaller ones).

The only negative might be that we won't roll every single guild buff 24/7 now to save up some influence (Weekly income lays around: 60.000 through member activity).

A sidenote: You can now buy 2x Influence Books at the Laurel Vendor for 16 Laurels - these give you 2.000 Influence, it's not great, but it's there, if someone doesn't have a use for their laurels.

[zwei2stein]

Red_Falcon, on 27 February 2013 - 05:19 AM, said:

Exactly.
Your people jump ship to get into a larger guild and it's... Arena Net's fault, clearly!
It's totally not that your guild is made by "fair weather guildies" that didn't actually give a damn about the guild.
Since you don't need to actually leave a guild to do missions with another, they weren't forced to leave, they wanted to.

Next time try to build a guild with people who actually care.

But it is not that easy.

Multiguild allows people to jump ship very gradually ... first, it is just for guild missions ... but then they discover they need to represent most of the time to see anouncements in guild chat or that dungeon runs with 4 people who that guold are quick and painless.

Basically, it is small rift that grows. It is not not caring, it is simply being absorbed to different group of people while loosing contact with your old guild.

It is illusion of having cake and eating it too that breaks small guilds, not simple desertions.

That does not mean those people are despicable *s that were just now given chance to show their colors and give you huge middle finger. It never happens like this.

It is not not caring, it providing fertile ground for stopping caring.

[Lordkrall]

rukia, on 27 February 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

The prices are a joke, I'm in a small guild of actual friends, not one of those insanely large guilds where you don't know anybody, where's the connection in that?

Can't say I'm not disappointed... but can't say that I am either... I expected no less from ANet, really. Just another fail to tally up, sorry for being so negative, but this is a huge blow to smaller parties.

Well, haven't been playing much anyways. *waits for next terrible patch* I feel bad for the people trying to stay in GW2 when ANet consistently punches them in the balls like this.

And yet you assume that these missions are made for your kind of guild. Which is quite clearly not the case.
The fact that the missions themselves does require a rather high amount of players should be a clear indicator. Such as the bounty missions that needs you to kill a certain number of Legendary tier mobs (in different zones) within a rather short period of time.
This is impossible without a rather high amount of players, since you need to split up.

Edited by Lordkrall, 27 February 2013 - 08:41 AM.

[Azure Skye]

Illein, on 27 February 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

Have no gripe yet with the guild missions, our first one will unlock on Sunday I believe - will be curious to see how it goes and if it's fun and rewarding to do.

30.000 Influence to unlock it definitely is very steep for smaller guilds, true enough. Though I'd hope that people in micro-guilds (<10 concurrent players online) will organize themselves reasonably to attend these with other guilds until they can kick-off their own guild missions. I definitely like that there is an incentive now to join larger guilds as it benefits me personally and there wasn't anything that catered to larger guilds especially until now (albeit still being available to smaller ones).

The only negative might be that we won't roll every single guild buff 24/7 now to save up some influence (Weekly income lays around: 60.000 through member activity).

A sidenote: You can now buy 2x Influence Books at the Laurel Vendor for 16 Laurels - these give you 2.000 Influence, it's not great, but it's there, if someone doesn't have a use for their laurels.

Its still alot of influencet to use on the guild mission and bounties, if you want to speed it up it still cost alot of influnce or you can wait. Lol

Edited by Azure Skye, 27 February 2013 - 08:44 AM.

[Illein]

Azure Skye, on 27 February 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

Its still alot of influencet to use on the guild mission and bounties, if you want to speed it up it still cost alot of influnce or you can wait. Lol

Well to complain about the entry fee is one thing - totally on board with that. But to complain that it costs a lot to speed it up...not so much

If you want it as fast as possible, pay or wait the 3 damn days.

[dss_live]

Resolve, on 27 February 2013 - 03:45 AM, said:

That.Is.The.Problem.

its not a big problem at all. you get influence for everything you do and you can even buy it.

[omar316]

Eon Lilu, on 26 February 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

The problem is no alliances in GW2, something they had in GW1, the other issue is sure you can team up with smaller guilds but only one guild will get the rewards and that guilds players will get the new individual rewards making it pointless for any smaller guild to team up...since only one guild would be rewarded the guild mission rewards and the merit rewards....all the other small guilds would get a big * you....

Having an Alliance of smaller guilds where they all are able to get the rewards no matter what guild triggers the missions, that would solve the smaller guilds issue.

Right now, smaller guilds have no chance of doing most of this content or getting the best rewarded content in the game without helping other larger guilds but without getting the same rewards....in effect, you would be slaves to the other guild...while getting none of the same rewards on an individual level or on a guild level.

I see your point but if you can actually make friends with other smaller guilds then I'd suggest joining them and represent to be eligible for the rewards.

Though there is a lack of alliance and cross guild chat the work around is there, you can simply join another guild while being in yours.

[Darkobra]

Shiren, on 27 February 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:

No, your example is ridiculous and has very little in common with a guild. This is a game not a relationship.

Before this update it didn't matter what size my guild was, the bonuses provided by having a larger guild were very easy to ignore, choosing to be in a smaller guild came at a very small sacrifice. Now ArenaNet has made the primary method of acquiring some of the best rewards in the game require resources gathered by guild events, but they've placed the entry level for these guild events so high, small guilds can't compete with large guilds.

Now small guilds can't offer what big guilds can. In the past, this wasn't a big deal - by being in a small guild you missed out on occasional  15% karma or similair bonuses. Most people can easily ignore those things. Now you are missing out on a large chunk of the guild mission system and the most viable path to ascended accessories. ArenaNet has done this by design with no consideration to small guilds. You have a dramatic advantage over smaller guilds when you are able to offer more content and rewards to them simply because you are bigger and have more influence.

Wanting to participate in the new content and have a good chance at accessing the new rewards doesn't make you a fair weather player. Even if they had stayed, they are in a guild which is going to access this content at a much slower pace - weeks away from doing any of it.

You know why it's ArenaNet's fault? Because they designed a guild content and reward system which is almost completely unusable by the majority of small guilds at a pace which comes remotely close. It dramatically favours the bigger guilds and the rewards are highly desirable. You can only be in four guilds and many guilds (especially the big ones wanting to pump out influence) have stict repping requirements. The design of this system is undeniably harmful to small guilds regardless of how you contest my anecdotal experience with it.

It's not an issue of whether your guild has fair weather players in the first place, it's the fact that ArenaNet has created a system which forces them to make a choice at all.

A guild is like a relationship. Or rather, you should have a relationship with your guild. I know every single person in mine. I know their names. What they do for a living. What their hobbies are. What kind of things they like to do in the game. I also build my guild to what they want because we don't just do one thing.

If people leave your guild, then they never cared for your guild and you never truly knew them at all. You can't offer them greener pastures and have never really aimed to, so they leave yours and join another. After all, if you did make the effort, you'd have a lot more loyal people and people wouldn't just up and leave in a game where you can actually have multiple guilds.

Is the problem with the rest of the game or just you?

[Resolve]

I don't see why you should have to pick between being loyal to your guild and playing content in the game in the first place.

The lengths you guys go to defend these constant bad decisions is mind blowing.

[Lordkrall]

And the lengths you guys go to attack every single thing ever made or said by ArenaNet is just as mind blowing.


I sure wonder how it can be so extremely hard to simply read up on these missions.
Nothing is stopping ANYONE from taking part in these new events. They are not exclusive to the guild that starts them.

[omar316]

Red_Falcon, on 27 February 2013 - 05:19 AM, said:

Exactly.
Your people jump ship to get into a larger guild and it's... Arena Net's fault, clearly!
It's totally not that your guild is made by "fair weather guildies" that didn't actually give a damn about the guild.
Since you don't need to actually leave a guild to do missions with another, they weren't forced to leave, they wanted to.

Next time try to build a guild with people who actually care.



That's like saying: "I was having a tough time and my girlfriend cheated on me with another guy, it must totally be that guy's fault! He offered greener pastures and she went for it, can you blame her?".

Get down to the real world, you had shitty people in your guild who didn't give a damn.

Falcon, while you point out the most glaring of points, the game is a fair weather game. There is no pull to make it such that they need to stay on, its a free to play, pick up and give up any time model.

Which is to say, these heavy restrictions, and raid level content is pretty taxing on people like me.
True I don't really play that much, given the fact my guilds also broken up, and many went to Kaineng, most quit, and the rest got bored over PvE, but for me to pick this up and try to even enjoy this content is hard.

1st gating is to find a guild, 2nd is to be included/make new clics, and lastly I am from JQ the most retarded WvW server ever. Worst I also do not see much chat, read the other thread where people all claim they are talking in guild chat/VoIP/or don't find the need to talk in map even.

Again, I am not looking at the loot here but a social experience to enjoy content. Anet is going the correct direction but why are they dropping the ball at every attempt. Huge raids are awesome but is there any type of small group content? They should have started it small, instead of putting these huge system.

For example, a guild mission would be like doing a set of dailies together. It unlocks more influence. Then trying to put it to the next level by doing a weekly, say run 5 dungeons in 1 week for more influence/karma. Each activity rewards influence and finally there can be a point where these tasks turn mundane and the huge raids need to be activated to ramp up the challenge.

Every thing should be progressive. We are simply getting gated and slammed with huge chunks of random shit instead of progression.
I like raids, I am always looking to run 8 mans and 16 mans in SWTOR. But it is progressive. It is not like you can never achieve the gear from these raids, there are dailies and weeklies to help you earn tokens to get the same gear which would take a longer route.

These Anet devs are doing the extremities, almost as if just listening to the fanbois and whiners and dumping content. Who plans these shit really?

[Gli]

Darkobra, on 27 February 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

A guild is like a relationship. Or rather, you should have a relationship with your guild. I know every single person in mine. I know their names. What they do for a living. What their hobbies are. What kind of things they like to do in the game. I also build my guild to what they want because we don't just do one thing.

All of this holds completely true for my guild. This won't split it up. It did cause us to agree upon finding a different game though, and perhaps get back to this one when some interesting new content is added.

Another update without significant content to reinvigorate our desire to play was one too many.

[Coren]

My guild is basically a group of.friends who have been in GW1 since the very beginning, and our number is a grand total of 6, with only 2 who are active every day (me and an other). We barely make 8k in q month, how the hell are we supposed to get enough influence for level 5 and the missions?

ANet wants to promote friends and guildies playing together? Weird way of showing it.

Before people.say that I should deserve the unlocks clearly don't remember the supposed philosophy.

rukia, on 27 February 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

The prices are a joke, I'm in a small guild of actual friends, not one of those insanely large guilds where you don't know anybody, where's the connection in that?

Can't say I'm not disappointed... but can't say that I am either... I expected no less from ANet, really. Just another fail to tally up, sorry for being so negative, but this is a huge blow to smaller parties.

Well, haven't been playing much anyways. *waits for next terrible patch* I feel bad for the people trying to stay in GW2 when ANet consistently punches them in the balls like this.

My guild is pretty much this. We were hoping to get new content to do as a guild, well that dream sure didn't last long.

Illein, on 27 February 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

Have no gripe yet with the guild missions, our first one will unlock on Sunday I believe - will be curious to see how it goes and if it's fun and rewarding to do.

30.000 Influence to unlock it definitely is very steep for smaller guilds, true enough. Though I'd hope that people in micro-guilds (<10 concurrent players online) will organize themselves reasonably to attend these with other guilds until they can kick-off their own guild missions. I definitely like that there is an incentive now to join larger guilds as it benefits me personally and there wasn't anything that catered to larger guilds especially until now (albeit still being available to smaller ones).

The only negative might be that we won't roll every single guild buff 24/7 now to save up some influence (Weekly income lays around: 60.000 through member activity).

A sidenote: You can now buy 2x Influence Books at the Laurel Vendor for 16 Laurels - these give you 2.000 Influence, it's not great, but it's there, if someone doesn't have a use for their laurels.

So basically you're saying small guilds like mine should hang onto the skirts of big ones just to get crumbs as a treat? Some guilds are small on purpose.

If destiny's edge was a real guild active in gw2, they would be even smaller than mine, and so would get close to zip in terms of notoriety.

[Illein]

Coren, on 27 February 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

My guild is pretty much this. We were hoping to get new content to do as a guild, well that dream sure didn't last long.

So basically you're saying small guilds like mine should hang onto the skirts of big ones just to get crumbs as a treat? Some guilds are small on purpose.

If destiny's edge was a real guild active in gw2, they would be even smaller than mine, and so would get close to zip in terms of notoriety.

So, you are a two people guild and participating in those guild missions kicked off by other guilds with actual members is beneath you? Well then I guess you're excluding yourself from that new content.

2 people being online isn't a guild on which content should be tailored on - that's the inner circle of my RL acquaintances playing Guild Wars 2 with me O_o

Edited by Illein, 27 February 2013 - 12:56 PM.

[Ritualist]

Illein, on 27 February 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

So, you are a two people guild and participating in those guild missions kicked off by other guilds with actual members is beneath you? Well then I guess you're excluding yourself from that new content.

2 people being online isn't a guild on which content should be tailored on - that's the inner circle of my RL acquaintances playing Guild Wars 2 with me O_o

http://www.reddit.co...te_their_guild/
Based on this, only people in the guild that started the mission get the guild mission rewards.

[Coren]

Illein, on 27 February 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

So, you are a two people guild and participating in those guild missions kicked off by other guilds with actual members is beneath you? Well then I guess you're excluding yourself from that new content.

2 people being online isn't a guild on which content should be tailored on - that's the inner circle of my RL acquaintances playing Guild Wars 2 with me O_o

The other four come sometimes when something is organized, because we are a group of friends. And besides, if we were there all 6 of us every day we'd still be severely under manned for points. Should we be punished for wanting to stick together? No. Why should our guild be excluded?

Joining an other guild isn't an option. We could if we wanted to just for those runs, but still beyond moronic because these missions should be done as a guild, by the guild.

[Coren]

Ritualist, on 27 February 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

http://www.reddit.co...te_their_guild/
Based on this, only people in the guild that started the mission get the guild mission rewards.

Wow, well at least they do support guild support and being faithful to it.

Seriously, how hard is it to have mutli leveled guild missions? Small guilds can do smaller missions (with less rewards, why not).

[dzanikken]

Since I have no need for a Legendary and all my characters are fully developed, I simply converted a large portion of my funds into influence. So did a bunch of my friends. Our guild has 25 players, with one third active at any given time.

We don't mind. And we're more than happy to wait until we have enough influence to unlock all missions.

I'm not providing my view on anything or giving suggestions, I simply described the path we decided to take to tackle this "small guild deficiency" issue.

[d_fens]

Ritualist, on 27 February 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

http://www.reddit.co...te_their_guild/
Based on this, only people in the guild that started the mission get the guild mission rewards.

Aww, that sucks bigtime. Guilds selling temporary membership incoming

Edited by d_fens, 27 February 2013 - 03:16 PM.

[Magi]

Bit of context. Guild of ~10 people, 5 or 6 of us actually active. We transferred from Yak's Bend to Maguuma because the WvW atmosphere on YB was insulting to a player's intelligence. We had been on YB since release, and had 100% completion on all the buffs and upgrades. Naturally, we now have nothing on Maguuma. It'll also take us several months to re-build what we had because of limited play time due to school and work. Are you aware that it takes 15.6 consecutive days of building to unlock a guild mission from scratch? That's assuming you have perfect timing on queuing upgrades and have no influence restrictions. Obviously, a small guild such as ours cannot hope to complete this. In essence, ANet is telling us to join a Wal-Mart guild and frolic with the lowbies and the bads. Either that or spam recruit in newbie zones to inflate the numbers and farm influence contributions off of new players.

I can understand why you wouldn't get credit for another guild's guild mission; players would be able to fully gear themselves in hours, rather than days, if that were the case. I don't care if it requires lots of players, but I do care that I'm being barred from completing content that rewards Ascended trinkets because of a poorly-thought-out game mechanic. It's absurd and needs to be fixed.

dss_live, on 27 February 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

its not a big problem at all. you get influence for everything you do and you can even buy it.

"You can even buy it." What an asinine statement. You can spend absurd amounts of gold and/or laurels for it, sure. Is that reasonable? Not in the slightest. Stop defending a crappy implementation because you can resolve it by investing in another crappy implementation.

[dss_live]

Magi, on 27 February 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

"You can even buy it." What an asinine statement. You can spend absurd amounts of gold and/or laurels for it, sure. Is that reasonable? Not in the slightest. Stop defending a crappy implementation because you can resolve it by investing in another crappy implementation.

actually, i don't spend money on influence at all. I listed it as an option to gain influence becoze it is one.  ISn't it so you can buy influence? so why shouldn't i include it in the list that 's about with what you can gain influence.  Its not an 'asinine' statement. Is a fact. If you want to speed up things you can pay for it. Thats jsut how it is. Get over it.

Influence is easy enough to get, your insane impatience on the otehr hand is ridiculous. Why is it so important to do everything to minute it comes available? its supposed to be content that lasts a long term (hence larger guilds being unable to unluck it all at once)

Edited by dss_live, 27 February 2013 - 03:35 PM.

[Gli]

dss_live, on 27 February 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

Influence is easy enough to get, your insane impatience on the otehr hand is ridiculous. Why is it so important to do everything to minute it comes available? its supposed to be content that lasts a long term (hence larger guilds being unable to unluck it all at once)

I'd have preferred a long term series of options and goals, with a low-threshold entry point.

What's the point of new content if you can't get to it without first repeating stale old content for a few more months?

[Lordkrall]

Gli, on 27 February 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

I'd have preferred a long term series of options and goals, with a low-threshold entry point.

What's the point of new content if you can't get to it without first repeating stale old content for a few more months?

I take it you hate expansions then?

[Gli]

Lordkrall, on 27 February 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

I take it you hate expansions then?

So glad you joined us with one of your fabulous non sequiturs.

[dss_live]

Gli, on 27 February 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

I'd have preferred a long term series of options and goals, with a low-threshold entry point.

What's the point of new content if you can't get to it without first repeating stale old content for a few more months?

i too hope tehre will come more conent with low treshold entry points, but this is not that. It never was and it was clear from the beginning.

[tfckmk988]

guys just thought about it where on the guild upgrade trees are the other mission types i know bounty is at the top of AoW

[Resolve]

Gli, on 27 February 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

I'd have preferred a long term series of options and goals, with a low-threshold entry point.

What's the point of new content if you can't get to it without first repeating stale old content for a few more months?

Yeah. They could've easily had the first 'tier' of missions be easy to buy and moderate difficulty, and then scale up from there in difficulty and time to unlock. Something for the small guilds and something for the large guilds.

That would solve a lot of the current complaints. Even if the small guilds can only get half of the guild tokens that's still better than 0.

[Gli]

dss_live, on 27 February 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

i too hope tehre will come more conent with low treshold entry points, but this is not that. It never was and it was clear from the beginning.

Really?

I never saw any indication of the steep entry costs until very close to the update's launch. What I did see was Leah Rivera tell us this in the official www.guildwars2.com news section:

Quote

"But what if my guild is super small?” you may say

Not to worry—all these missions take place in the persistent world, which gives you the ability to rally people from the surrounding countryside and maybe make some new friends in the process!