119 replies to this topic

[Mister Stygian]

Ecto is no big deal compared to the time in laurels for these things.  Even wealthy players are slowed by the cost they set in laurels.  Any player that spends most of their time in 70+ content is going to be able to get the 50 ecto from salvaging the rares they drop way before they can earn 40 laurels.

[Resolve]

50 ecto + 40 laurels for stats. Purely stats, you can't even see the item. In Guild Wars.

Haha, this is hilarious.

[Uhhsam]

So amulets are 30 laurels, rings are 35 laurels, and accessories are 40 laurels and 50 globs of ectoplasm?  Sounds about right...

[Noob On Steroid]

If I get it right (haven't been able to check it in-game, since I'm at work), these ascended accessories can also be bought from a Guild Vendor for 5 gold and 12 commendations. It's also pretty steep, but at least you can get them without throwing ectos and laurels at them.

Uhhsam, on 27 February 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

So amulets are 30 laurels, rings are 35 laurels, and accessories are 40 laurels and 50 globs of ectoplasm?  Sounds about right...

Honestly, this is the most casual-friendly way to implement it: the biggest stat boost at the lowest cost. That way, even people with limited playtime can get the better ascended items. Don't forget there are other ways to get both the rings and the accessories.

Edited by Noob On Steroid, 27 February 2013 - 09:46 AM.

[Pyrea]

This looks good, something else to aim for, someone even mentioned yesterday in LA that ecto salvage was better after update

[Lunacy Polish]

So I've had a chance to actually sit down and read all this.  I'm not sure I like this change, I think it's probably going to lead to me eventually quitting the game if it continues.

I thought a few months ago when ANet said there wouldn't be be any more Ascended gear, that there'd be more stat allocations to choose from but there wouldn't be more actual items.  I really thought they'd learned their lesson from the FOTM debacle.

So clearly now we have six slots where the "best in slot" item is Ascended.  Why is this a problem?

Because the big draw for me to this game was the accessible PVP modes, that you weren't supposed to need the very best gear to be competitive.  So far this has been true, in all fairness, and at the present moment it still is and probably will be for months to come, but changes like this move us away from that reality bit by bit.

The thing is I'm not bitching that I can't get to the 30th level of some PvE mode I don't even play, that I can't reach maximum rank, or that I can't be a commander.  I am 100% cool with there being unobtainable perks in the game I can't get because I don't play enough.  I'm bitching that when a gear tier I can't get eventually becomes the new standard, that gates me off from the basic game mode I enjoy.

Gear treadmills turn regular content into gated content.

The best gear tier I can reliably easily obtain is Rare.  Exotics I can get, slowly but regularly.  That's okay, that's a good system.  See one gear tier of difference between me and my PVP opponents isn't insurmountable, and it gives me something to work toward to improve my character.

Legendaries are off the table.  I don't have an Ascended item yet, but I'm very close.  Note this is ONE item.  I have three level 80 characters so far, so I'm kind of screwed there.

When you have three or four slots where the best in slot item is Ascended, it's still okay, I'm only like 1.3 tiers behind.

The problem is when you have Ascended as the best in slot for all 12 items, and the ability to get these through guild missions, the reality is that eventually Ascended gear will replace Exotics as the "standard".  I will be two complete gear tiers behind on most characters.
That's getting into an area where I'm just not relevant any more; if Ascended is the new standard all exotics should be viable, but all exotics is something I can't easily do.

Even if two gear tiers isn't enough to make me obsolete, the next tier after Ascended will be a problem for sure.

I wouldn't be so butt hurt if Ascended gear was just a cool skin or particle effect for people who earn it, or if you couldn't use PvE gear in WvW or something, if either of those were true facts I'd say have all the gear tiers you want with my blessing.

Look player skill I can improve, leveling I can generally handle, builds I can figure out, but the reason I have quit most MMOs is I can't keep up in PvP with easily obtainable gear.  GW2 is heading that direction.  It's not there yet, and I'm not panicking just yet, but I am quite concerned.

The gaps in profession balance I can live with, they aren't that bad compared to other games I've played.  The problems with the game systems aren't insurmountable and overally are trending toward improvement.  I actually like this game a great amount, so far it's been a very good fit for me.

But I have other games I enjoy playing too and when I eventually reach the point I keep getting ROFLSTOMPED in WvW by not having enough gear that's probably going to be it for me.  Changes like this make this eventuality more and more possible.

I just don't understand why if PVP is the draw, why do they keep making these things that require so much PVE time investment?  I bet most of these guild missions are going to be activated on the weekends when I usually can't play.

I'm even okay with there being new gear tiers over time, but the game's not even a year old.

[Tyrantscreed]

Newsflash: You don't HAVE to use ecto's to get the new accessories. Those who buy them are idiots. Sorry, but that's the cold hard truth.

You can get 12 Commendations and easily purchase an accessory from the guild vendor. If you are the impatient once then buy ectos, its your loss either way.

Raytla, on 27 February 2013 - 01:47 AM, said:

Yes, I forgot to mention Fractal Capacitor
Thanks for reminding me!
Would love for them to be purchasable with laurels.

The Laurel requirement for this would be ridiculous. It takes 1350 fractal relics just to get the exotic fractal back piece.

If rings are 35 laurels (it takes roughly 10 pristine relics = 250 normal fractal relics assuming you do dailies between lv10-18 fractals - the daily reward is 25 fractal relics) then you would require about 189 laurels for the back piece.

That's a lot of laurel, but if you want to avoid fractals, I guess that works.

Edited by Tyrantscreed, 27 February 2013 - 02:38 PM.

[Volkon]

Free ectos everywhere now!

Yeah, it sounds silly, but it's closer to truth than people seem to be realizing. The guild missions, for starters will guarantee you two rares at least in the end chest each time. Drops are up significantly, including rares in WvW. Chests have had their loot upgraded, resulting in more rares, thus more ectos.

Yes, it's easy to see the downside to requiring ectos at the vendor... but they seem to think they'll need the ecto-sink to go with the potential ecto-faucet they've opened.

[Menehune]

El Duderino, on 26 February 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

Changing the argument doesn't make you right.

Of course casuals don't need ecto's or ascended gear.

And, they didn't add ascended gear for hardcore players, or they wouldn't have added daily challanges and laurels specifically to help casual players "keep up". If you want me to find the quote, I will be happy to.

I agree 100% that using ecto's to get ascended gear is not aimed towards casual players.

But, the statement that caused this whole mess was:

"This will make the price of ecto's rise and be further out of the reach of casual players."

I think that statement on a whole is pretty fair to make. LordKrall thought it wasn't, which is what caused this argument.

I think this is one of those things that only time will tell if it is true and if so to what extent. One of the other updates was improving/correcting drops. Getting and being able to salvage/sell more rares could offset the effect of rising ecto cost or even conceivably make ectos easier to get. We'll have to wait and see how much more can be gotten out of better drops.

[El Duderino]

Menehune, on 27 February 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

I think this is one of those things that only time will tell if it is true and if so to what extent. One of the other updates was improving/correcting drops. Getting and being able to salvage/sell more rares could offset the effect of rising ecto cost or even conceivably make ectos easier to get. We'll have to wait and see how much more can be gotten out of better drops.

Well, I realized yesterday that there are other things that will keep a cap on ectos getting over approx. 40s for any extended length of time.

But, I will refrain from commenting on the specifics in case ecto's do get that high, and I can cash in.

[Lunacy Polish]

Volkon, on 27 February 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

Free ectos everywhere now!

Yeah, it sounds silly, but it's closer to truth than people seem to be realizing. The guild missions, for starters will guarantee you two rares at least in the end chest each time. Drops are up significantly, including rares in WvW. Chests have had their loot upgraded, resulting in more rares, thus more ectos.

Yes, it's easy to see the downside to requiring ectos at the vendor... but they seem to think they'll need the ecto-sink to go with the potential ecto-faucet they've opened.

I hope this is true.  If I can score rares to salvage for ectos on a consistent basis say at least a couple a week I think everything would be okay.   I have not played a lot this week to see for myself.

Like I said before I am not freaking out or raging yet I am just concerned.   But if this is true that could make the game overall better for me personally or St least keep my status quo of being one tier behind (which I am not complaining about).

Edited by Lunacy Polish, 28 February 2013 - 04:37 PM.

[typographie]

Lunacy Polish, on 28 February 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

I hope this is true.

Pssh, why "hope" when we have cold, soulless graphs and numbers! Ecto prices actually appear to be crashing pretty hard at the moment.
http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/19721

There was a nice price spike right around the patch, but I guess the "OMG, ectos = ascended items!!?" shock wore off when players saw the drop rates and Laurel costs.

[Fizzypop]

asbasb, on 27 February 2013 - 12:59 AM, said:

They don't. That's kind of the point of endgame armor. It's not something excepted and designed to be attained by everyone, unlike rare or exotic karma gear.

yeah no...they expect everyone to earn ascended gear over time.

[leongrado]

Keeping the GW1 tradition. Making Ectos a new form of currency

[asbasb]

Fizzypop, on 28 February 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

yeah no...they expect everyone to earn ascended gear over time.

A source where this has been stated or implied would be nice.

[Lordkrall]

asbasb, on 28 February 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

A source where this has been stated or implied would be nice.

The fact that you can get them by simply playing the game and not doing anything special should be a rather good indicator.

[christiansoldier]

Resolve, on 27 February 2013 - 03:44 AM, said:

50 ecto + 40 laurels for stats. Purely stats, you can't even see the item. In Guild Wars.

Haha, this is hilarious.

This is amusing.  This is the exact opposite of hundreds of post where people can't understand why some people spend tons of money for something that has the same stats but a pretty skin.

We have totally come full circle.

Edited by christiansoldier, 28 February 2013 - 09:49 PM.

[asbasb]

Lordkrall, on 28 February 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

The fact that you can get them by simply playing the game and not doing anything special should be a rather good indicator.

I could get  Legendary without ever doing anything but open world DEs, but I wouldn't say ANet expects everyone to go for one.

They mentioned that ascended gear is targeted at dedicated players, which means there's a group of non dedicated players the gear is not targeted at. They those non-dedicated players could get it of course, but the gear is designed to be optional prestige until there is a discreet piece of content you cannot experience at all without ascended gear. We'll see through which channels they are going to provide players with vertical progression in the future once all ascended gear and infusions are released, and whether they make it necessary for expansions, but right now it's just GW2's take on 75k/obbi armor with a small stat boost.

[Lordkrall]

asbasb, on 28 February 2013 - 10:06 PM, said:

I could get  Legendary without ever doing anything but open world DEs, but I wouldn't say ANet expects everyone to go for one.

Actually you couldn't.
You would need explorations, dungeons and WvW/puzzles.
You need to do very specific things to get Legendaries. While Ascended gear is now possible to get by simply playing the game, via the laurels given by dailies.

[kalendraf]

The drop rate of rares seems to have been greatly improved with the last update.

Across all my hours of play in PvE (3 toons to level 80, 5 more in between 40s to upper 70s), I'd obtained about two to three dozen rares, over half of which I sold on the TP, a few of which I tried to salvage and a few that I kept.  In a typical week of 25+ hours of casual gameplay, I might get one to two rares as drops, and perhaps a couple more from map completions.  Prior to yesterday, my best day ever was getting 4 rares during a set of fractal runs, but due to my real life time constraints (I may have to leave at anytime without much advanced warning), that's an area I don't frequent.

Fast forward to last night.  In just a few hours of gameplay, I got 11 rares!  I got 2 each from each of the three dragon chests, another 2 from the Maw chest, 2 from tossing greens into the Mystic forge and 1 from a random drop.  If that rate continues, I may eclipse the number of rares I found from the launch until this past update in a matter of days.

From an ecto standpoint, this should greatly increase the number of ectos available to players, provided this increase to the rate of obtaining rares is not some kind of anomaly, and that the rate of ectos salvaged from rares is not nerfed.

[Xai]

leongrado, on 28 February 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

Keeping the GW1 tradition. Making Ectos a new form of currency

Ectos were used MORE as currency than for any actual crafting in GW1 (FoW armour was just a skin, after all). GW2 seems to need them for so many items now it's getting ridiculous.

[asbasb]

Lordkrall, on 28 February 2013 - 10:09 PM, said:

You would need explorations, dungeons and WvW/puzzles.

Those are not more specific in terms of common player playstyle compared to dailies. They made the distinction between player types in their blog posts, and as long as they don't say otherwise or design new content around needing ascended gear to be experienced, I am of the opinion that they don't expect everyone to get it. Yet. It can always change, but that's a subject for another discussion.

[Trei]

I'm actually getting a heck lot more black lion salvage kits from dailies, incidentally.

[Resolve]

christiansoldier, on 28 February 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

This is amusing.  This is the exact opposite of hundreds of post where people can't understand why some people spend tons of money for something that has the same stats but a pretty skin.

We have totally come full circle.

You must have missed the 'In Guild Wars' part.

We expected expensive cosmetic items, but didn't expect expensive higher tier stat items. The reasons for this are largely obvious so I shouldn't have to spell them out for you.

[Coren]

Noob On Steroid, on 27 February 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

If I get it right (haven't been able to check it in-game, since I'm at work), these ascended accessories can also be bought from a Guild Vendor for 5 gold and 12 commendations. It's also pretty steep, but at least you can get them without throwing ectos and laurels at them.



Honestly, this is the most casual-friendly way to implement it: the biggest stat boost at the lowest cost. That way, even people with limited playtime can get the better ascended items. Don't forget there are other ways to get both the rings and the accessories.

Until they implement something higher than ascended.

[two maces]

leongrado, on 28 February 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

Keeping the GW1 tradition. Making Ectos a new form of currency

All we need is a tradeable trophy for Ascended items. Let's call it Ambrace.

[Darkobra]

asbasb, on 28 February 2013 - 10:06 PM, said:

I could get  Legendary without ever doing anything but open world DEs, but I wouldn't say ANet expects everyone to go for one.

What legendary is that? I want that one.

[MrForz]

Am I the only one not bothered by the Ectos but by the fact that you need 30-40 days in order to get one of these accessories?

[Shroomhead Fred]

MrForz, on 02 March 2013 - 03:01 AM, said:

Am I the only one not bothered by the Ectos but by the fact that you need 30-40 days in order to get one of these accessories?

No you're not the only one.

[Arich]

Im really not sure how I feel about this.  On one hand, I dont need ascended gear.  Im playing just fine without it.  I guess I look at it the same way I view legendaries - something I will likely never have.  Ive been playing for 2 months now, roughly 20 hours a week.  Personally, I dont consider that to be casual, but maybe I just dont understand how much some people play.  In that time, I have managed to level 3 chars to 80.  I also have a lv40 and lv30.  I guess that means I spend most of my team leveling characters and not running end game content.  Could be why I have no ectos.  Any that I have received have been crafted into exotic armor.

Id prefer laurels or ectos, so it was a "time or money" choice.  Either way, whatever, just one more thing I wont be doing - like the guild quests.  Its rare for our guild to get more than 5 people organized at any given time.  Dont see those happening either.