63 replies to this topic

[SweetDeepBullet]

Some news since my post and after patch test, drain food is over, back too 100 endurance 70 preci

My final build


http://gw2buildcraft....u47c.a6|40.8|e

My bolt still crit at 5K5, spread 4K, FT ftw



( btw i'm playing mostly in wcwcw but after some test in fractals, you can keep same build, massive damage, good survavibility, just need to fight on pistol/shield for some boss, the build is perfect because you can switch on pistol traits out of combat )

Edited by SweetDeepBullet, 27 February 2013 - 09:16 PM.

[coglin]

BlaineTog, on 27 February 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

You don't need to spec heavily into Elixers to get good condition removal, just grab Elixer C.  I would kill for something as awesome as Elixer C on my Thief.

Also, the Wiki claims the Elixer Gun's Super Elixer removes conditions even though the tooltip doesn't mention it.  So there's that, if you're stuck on kits.

I know what the wiki says on super elixir, I personally typed that note in myself. I update the wiki regularly. One condition every 20s is all that is added with kit refinement on the elixir gun. While using it negates the condition removal of kit refinement of flame blast. Cutting the kit build condition removal out by 1/3...Elixir C has a 40s CD. Thieves can use skills that have no CD to remove conditions. That is a illogical comparison on your part though, because thiefs do not have CDs but issues with initiative. We do not get weapons skills that remove conditions as thieves do.

Phineas_Poe, on 27 February 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

I don't see how the loss of it after still having access two Super Elixirs makes us "exceptionally crappy" at condition removal. healing.

No one suggested engies were "crappy" at anything, those were your words, not mine. I simply said that kit builds lost 1/3 of their condition removal. While still having zero stun breakers. My point in general is that most other professions have a set of utilities that are buffed by the same traits that will break stunn and remove conditions. Our only utility set that does this is elixirs.

ZCKS, on 27 February 2013 - 08:04 PM, said:

True enough, though you can use elixer S or elixer R for a stun breaker or elixir C for a condition remover.

Thats my point exactly. I dislike that I "must" use elixirs to remove conditions. I do not understand why the devs are so stubborn against spreading the stun breakers or decent options for condition removal on kits. Particularly after they make post claiming that we put ourselves at a disadvantage if we do not use them.

Unless they left out in patch notes somewhere that fumigate now effects the engineer as well, then it was a kit nerf no matter how you look at it. By this I am referring specifically to the kit refinement alone. The kits as a whole, certainly got well deserved fixes.

Not to mention that deplorable turrets working again is great. Its nice then I am soloing champions and I can toss turrets where he cannot reach them but they can reach him.

Edited by coglin, 27 February 2013 - 09:47 PM.

[Phineas Poe]

coglin, on 27 February 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

No one suggested engies were "crappy" at anything, those were your words, not mine. I simply said that kit builds lost 1/3 of their condition removal. While still having zero stun breakers. My point in general is that most other professions have a set of utilities that are buffed by the same traits that will break stunn and remove conditions. Our only utility set that does this is elixirs.

They actually were your words.

coglin, on 26 February 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

The downside to the EG and FT that really bugs me is the loss of the ability removing conditions at a decent rate. Now we are simply right back to being a profession with exceptionally crappy condition removal.

I can upkeep Super Elixir 100% of the time just like I always could. Nothing has changed for us in that regard.

Edited by Phineas_Poe, 27 February 2013 - 09:48 PM.

[coglin]

Phineas_Poe, on 27 February 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

They actually were your words.

You got me there. The more I think about it the more I think its accurate as well. Elixirs are the only way to have devent condition removal, and that is a very pigeon holing factor.

Phineas_Poe, on 27 February 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

I can upkeep Super Elixir 100% of the time just like I always could. Nothing has changed for us in that regard.

No one was suggesting that you couldn't, but super elixir only removes 1 condition per use. Unless another friendly player fires a projectile that passes through it, then you. The condition removal tag that pops up when firing into a light field does not remove conditions from you, only the players the projectile passes through to cleanses after it enters the field. thus kit refinement only adds one condition removal option now instead of two. Completely removing the condition removal value of kit refinement on FT when combines with EG or vice versa. Which seems counter intuitive to all of the FT and EG gun traits that are forcefully tied together. You can continue to debate this with me all you wish. It will not change the fact that kit builds lost 1/3 of their condition removal, while still having no option for stun breaking.

Why are you argueing so adamantly in favor of nerfing kit builds option for condition removal? Do you you feel that kits were already OP?

Edited by coglin, 28 February 2013 - 01:01 AM.

[BlaineTog]

coglin, on 27 February 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

Elixir C has a 40s CD. Thieves can use skills that have no CD to remove conditions.That is a illogical comparison on your part though, because thiefs do not have CDs but issues with initiative. We do not get weapons skills that remove conditions as thieves do.

Sword thieves can deal with conditions one at a time, but Elixer Engineers pretty much don't care about conditions are all.  If you're a Thief rocking anything other than mainhand sword, conditions suck to deal with.  Any Engineer can grab Elixer C if they not only want to tear off all conditions at once but also have an AoE condition removal in their toolbelt.  It is a low-investment option available to everyone in the profession.  Thieves lack something like that.  Their condition removal is harder to get to and tends to be more limited.

And it's not even like Kit Refinement lost its condition removal!  It's still there, though admittedly you're less able to have it ready when you need it.

[coglin]

BlaineTog, on 28 February 2013 - 12:11 AM, said:

Sword thieves can deal with conditions one at a time, but Elixer Engineers pretty much don't care about conditions are all.

1. Who cares about thieves, this is an engineer thread.

2. I have made it very specifically clear that my issue is with the fact that the only decent condition removal is with elixirs, yet the point here is that it was made more so when 1/3 of a kit builds options were removed.

BlaineTog, on 28 February 2013 - 12:11 AM, said:

And it's not even like Kit Refinement lost its condition removal!  It's still there, though admittedly you're less able to have it ready when you need it.

Exactly. This is the issue. Rreviously you could swap to FT for kit refinement to remove a condition, then immediately to EG for the same effect.

Why are you so in favor of our kit builds condition removal being nerfed and arguing in favor of it ?

Edited by coglin, 28 February 2013 - 01:02 AM.

[thelurker]

I'm with coglin on this one. As a weapon kit engineer (0/20/0/20/30, flamethrower, elixir gun, tool kit) I relied heavily on the kit refinement effects from EG and FT to help with conditions, especially immobilize. Usually I'm rapidly switching through most/all kits for all the different skills and if I came up against condition heavy enemies I'd avoid swapping into either FT or EG (usually EG), or I'd use the jump switch which doesn't work anymore either, to try and save their kit refinement for when I really needed it. It was bad enough that I didn't have a stun breaker before, which I found a soft, as in very soft work around, and even for that I needed kit refinement (get stunned > EG for super elixir kit refinement + healing mist to try and soak up the small hits > very carefully use FT smoke vent to avoid the big hits). But now even my limited source of condition removal has become even more limited. Now if I come up against enemies with a lot of cripple, chill, or immobilize I have to avoid kit switching all together and save the kit refinement for when I get snared. And I can't rely on Overcharged shot because of it's short range and self knockback.

On the other hand aside from kit refinement, it seems like everything else got a nice buff. Stow med kit is kinda meh, but at least stow kit is now consistent across all kits in pve, once I get used to it it'll probably make kit skill chaining a bit smoother. A bit of added utility and healing to the EG is nice, might help a little with the soft stun breaker, though it'll probably be minimal. Big buffs to the FT are very welcome, even though I'm very used to getting into double hit range for flame blast being able to detonate it manually now is a big plus and the little bit of extra damage for burning effects is very nice. Stronger pry bar is good and who knows added turret healing and deploy-able turrets might mean I could try and bring my turret bouncer or turret discharge builds into pve for a bit of a change if I start feeling the restriction from kit refinement.

[BlaineTog]

coglin, on 28 February 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

1. Who cares about thieves, this is an engineer thread.

Yes, but you're the one saying Engineers have "exceptionally crappy" condition removal.  That sort of claim is relative to other professions and I'm saying that Thieves have it worse.

coglin, on 28 February 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

2. I have made it very specifically clear that my issue is with the fact that the only decent condition removal is with elixirs, yet the point here is that it was made more so when 1/3 of a kit builds options were removed.

I know, but there's no contract you have to sign when you spec for heavy kit usage that says you can't take a single Elixer as one of your utilities.  Kits already have SOME condition removal, and if you want to upgrade to "pretty good" condition removal, all it takes is a single Utility skill.

coglin, on 28 February 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

Why are you so in favor of our kit builds condition removal being nerfed and arguing in favor of it ?

For starters, it makes sense.  With no cooldown between kit swaps, Kit Refinement gave basically unlimited free spells.  That's not how the game's supposed to work.

But more generally, I think you're overreacting.  Kit Engineers may have to worry about condition removal a bit more now, but they're not at bottom rung.  They still have options, some of which are still in their kits.

[thelurker]

Kit swapping may only have 1s CD, but each Kit refinement had it's own internal CD, http://wiki.guildwar...Kit_Refinement. Now it has a 10s global CD as well as keeping their own ICD (which I think is a bug by the way, they'll probably eventually make it a straight 10s global CD) meaning they now have two ICDs.

[coglin]

BlaineTog, on 28 February 2013 - 01:26 AM, said:

Yes, but you're the one saying Engineers have "exceptionally crappy" condition removal.  That sort of claim is relative to other professions and I'm saying that Thieves have it worse.

thieves can trait for conditions removal every time the invis at a rate of 1 condition every 3 seconds, while our trait just got nerfed to a level of 1 condition every 10s. . I believe your argument hold no water.

BlaineTog, on 28 February 2013 - 01:26 AM, said:

I know, but there's no contract you have to sign when you spec for heavy kit usage that says you can't take a single Elixer as one of your utilities.  Kits already have SOME condition removal, and if you want to upgrade to "pretty good" condition removal, all it takes is a single Utility skill.

Which is awkwardly backwards when given the recent dev post stating their design for the profession. I find little logic in the profession being punished because of kit diversity, then having the benefits of kit diversity being punished by this restriction.

I am still baffled by your desire to lobby so hard in favor of this nerf.

Edited by coglin, 28 February 2013 - 02:21 AM.

[Ojimaru]

coglin, on 28 February 2013 - 02:15 AM, said:

thieves can trait for conditions removal every time the invis at a rate of 1 condition every 3 seconds, while our trait just got nerfed to a level of 1 condition every 10s. . I believe your argument hold no water.

Which is awkwardly backwards when given the recent dev post stating their design for the profession. I find little logic in the profession being punished because of kit diversity, then having the benefits of kit diversity being punished by this restriction.

I am still baffled by your desire to lobby so hard in favor of this nerf.

This nerf to Kit Refinement has nothing to do with kit diversity. Kit Refinement complicates one aspect of a multi-kit build; you do not lose the utility and damage of the kits.

[coglin]

Ojimaru, on 28 February 2013 - 02:49 AM, said:

This nerf to Kit Refinement has nothing to do with kit diversity. Kit Refinement complicates one aspect of a multi-kit build; you do not lose the utility and damage of the kits.

It has everything to do with kit build diversity. You lose the AoE damage from the FT kit refinement, or you lose AoE heal+Cond. removal from EG kit refinement. Those are simple, yet specific examples of how you lose both damage and utility of kits, contrary to your statement, thus losing utility from kit builds, no matter how you cut it.

[BlaineTog]

thelurker, on 28 February 2013 - 01:41 AM, said:

Kit swapping may only have 1s CD, but each Kit refinement had it's own internal CD, http://wiki.guildwar...Kit_Refinement. Now it has a 10s global CD as well as keeping their own ICD (which I think is a bug by the way, they'll probably eventually make it a straight 10s global CD) meaning they now have two ICDs.

I agree that a single global cooldown makes far more sense.

coglin, on 28 February 2013 - 02:15 AM, said:

thieves can trait for conditions removal every time the invis at a rate of 1 condition every 3 seconds, while our trait just got nerfed to a level of 1 condition every 10s. . I believe your argument hold no water.

That's also all that trait does.  Furthermore, stealthing requires either spending initiative or a long cooldown, whereas you can swap into and out of a kit for no investment, even while stunned.

coglin, on 28 February 2013 - 02:15 AM, said:

Which is awkwardly backwards when given the recent dev post stating their design for the profession. I find little logic in the profession being punished because of kit diversity, then having the benefits of kit diversity being punished by this restriction.

Versatility tends to get nerfed pretty hard in this game.  Elementalists have to pay for their Attunements in a huge number of ways.

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with it, but the general pattern set by ANet is to rate versatility very highly when evaluating a profession's power.

coglin, on 28 February 2013 - 02:15 AM, said:

I am still baffled by your desire to lobby so hard in favor of this nerf.

I'm not lobbying for it.  I'm just saying, Engi's aren't as bad off as you're making them out to be when it comes to condition removal, even after this nerf.

[marcxdid]

Is Forceful Explosives bugged? When I use it I get 0 dmg from the dodge bomb, when I take it off, I get regular bomb damage from the dodge bomb(power minor trait)

[coglin]

BlaineTog, on 28 February 2013 - 03:12 AM, said:

I'm not lobbying for it.  I'm just saying, Engi's aren't as bad off as you're making them out to be when it comes to condition removal, even after this nerf.

Actually that is exactly what you are doing. As well, they are exactly as bad off as I say they are. I simply stated exactly what we lost and stated how it impacted kit builds. I never said anything more then that it impacted damage from the trait and it cut 1/3 of the kits condition removal. Those are both facts.

[Phineas Poe]

coglin, on 27 February 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

No one was suggesting that you couldn't, but super elixir only removes 1 condition per use. Unless another friendly player fires a projectile that passes through it, then you. The condition removal tag that pops up when firing into a light field does not remove conditions from you, only the players the projectile passes through to cleanses after it enters the field.

You're talking about Cleansing Bolts, which is the Guardian's Spin and Win with their Greatsword's #2 skill "Whirling Wrath." That is a Whirl finisher.

The Engineer can conditions on himself (or herself) through Projectile finishers. Auto attack skills have been nerfed so that they only proc condition removal 20% of the time, but at the rate you fire your weapon you're statistically looking at 2+ conditions removed per 10 seconds. It's really not bad at all and that's actually how I relied on condition removal for a while now outside of tossing elixirs with Cleansing Formula or straight-up chugging Elixir C.

How many conditions do you really find yourself carrying with you at any given time in PvE? Super Elixir more than gets the job done as it always has, between its Better-Than-Healing-Turret Regeneration mitigating Conditions anyway and its removal on Projectile Finisher combinations.

coglin, on 27 February 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

Why are you argueing so adamantly in favor of nerfing kit builds option for condition removal? Do you you feel that kits were already OP?

I'm not arguing adamantly in favor of anything except that we don't have "exceptionally crappy" condition removal. Quite frankly I'm happy with this patch regardless of what happened to Kit Refinement. Guardian (my most played alt) got massive buffs in this patch and the Flamethrower also got huge buffs.

With the nerf to Kit Refinement we've lost a skill that removes one condition in favor of swapping to the Elixir Gun for Super Elixir, which is by and far a superior skill. You can choose to make a huge deal out of it but I'm not going to.

Not defending it. Just indifferent about it because there's plenty of other things to be excited about with this patch.

Edited by Phineas_Poe, 28 February 2013 - 06:20 AM.

[coglin]

Phineas_Poe, on 28 February 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

The Engineer can conditions on himself (or herself) through Projectile finishers

Wrong. You need to test this for yourself. Create a light field and shoot through it to when you have conditions. You will not lose any conditions or get any cleansing. Only those in the path of your projectile after it enters the light field gain any cleansing

[thelurker]

Wait projectile finishers work on the person firing the projectile now? Was that changed in the patch? Because I'm pretty damn sure that never happened before. If I was loaded with conditions and put down Super Elixir and threw the tool wrench through it I never lost more then one condition and that was from the initial placement of Super Elixir.

[coglin]

Phineas_Poe, on 28 February 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

I'm not arguing adamantly in favor of anything except that we don't have "exceptionally crappy" condition removal. Quite frankly I'm happy with this patch regardless of what happened to Kit Refinement.

I am happy with the patch with the exception of kit refinement as well. A kit build has 1 way to remove conditions, and that is super elixir. Kit refinement, previously gave supper elixir X2 + Flame burst for the ability of 3 conditions removed in initially with use of each and a 10s CD on one and 20s on the other two. That option is removed, and without kit refinement is it a 1 condition removal every 20s. Like it ore not, that is crappy.

thelurker, on 28 February 2013 - 07:28 AM, said:

Wait projectile finishers work on the person firing the projectile now? Was that changed in the patch? Because I'm pretty damn sure that never happened before. If I was loaded with conditions and put down Super Elixir and threw the tool wrench through it I never lost more then one condition and that was from the initial placement of Super Elixir.

Nope, he is just posting about things which he does not know about. It still works similar to fumigate, in which it only works on those in the path of it.

Edited by coglin, 28 February 2013 - 07:48 AM.

[Plyte]

Well, the damage buff to Flamethrowers was nice.  Now instead of doing 50% of a warriors damage, I do closer to 55%.

But joking aside, I love the EG buff.  I run a bomb+EG build that works pretty well, and healing increase is definitely noticeable. I run mostly a mishmash of knights and rampagers with altruism runes as well as all-stat neck and rings and it seems pretty decent.   It sucks that FT+EG builds lost a condition cleanse, but I dunno, honestly we're lucky to have kit refinement in tier 1.

[SweetDeepBullet]

Plyte, on 28 February 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

Well, the damage buff to Flamethrowers was nice.  Now instead of doing 50% of a warriors damage, I do closer to 55%.

But joking aside, I love the EG buff.  I run a bomb+EG build that works pretty well, and healing increase is definitely noticeable. I run mostly a mishmash of knights and rampagers with altruism runes as well as all-stat neck and rings and it seems pretty decent.   It sucks that FT+EG builds lost a condition cleanse, but I dunno, honestly we're lucky to have kit refinement in tier 1.

i crit 5K5 on bolt 4K mini on 1 spread, warrior crits for 10K each 4sec and constant ae front for 4K?? damn i need reroll

[Rachmani]

Honestly, I think I can somewhat understand what they're trying to do.
A-Net seems to be determined to actually get us to use certain kits (use as in "not swap in and out") - which somewhat makes sense, especially with the EG, that was mostly used for Kit refinement procs or a fast 4 or 5.
I just don't think the kit refinement nerf did a good job at achieving that, at all.

[Sagramor]

Rachmani, on 28 February 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

Honestly, I think I can somewhat understand what they're trying to do.
A-Net seems to be determined to actually get us to use certain kits (use as in "not swap in and out") - which somewhat makes sense, especially with the EG, that was mostly used for Kit refinement procs or a fast 4 or 5.
I just don't think the kit refinement nerf did a good job at achieving that, at all.

If they wanted us to utilize kits like other professions use secondary weapons they'd simply bump up the kit swap cooldown (Medkit excluded). Instead they put a GCD of 10sec (same as weapon swap) on Kit Refinement; most likely in an attempt to kill 100nades. What this did was further tax multi-kit builds.

[BlaineTog]

coglin, on 28 February 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

Actually that is exactly what you are doing. As well, they are exactly as bad off as I say they are. I simply stated exactly what we lost and stated how it impacted kit builds. I never said anything more then that it impacted damage from the trait and it cut 1/3 of the kits condition removal. Those are both facts.

lob·by(lb)
...
v.tr.

1. To try to influence public officials on behalf of or against (proposed legislation, for example): lobbied the bill through Congress; lobbied the bill to a negative vote.

2. To try to influence (an official) to take a desired action.

So no, I'm not lobyying for this change.  I'm saying Kit Engineers do not have bottom-tier condition removal.

Med Kit: Has a skill that clears a condition on a 15 second cooldown.
Elixer Gun: Has a skill that clears a condition in an AoE, 20 second cooldown or 16 seconds if traited.
Kit Refinement: Clear a condition just by switching into Elixer Gun (20 second cooldown) or Flamethrower (10 second cooldown) if you haven't switched kits in the last 10 seconds.
Elixer C: Turn all conditions into boons (40 second cooldown), + AoE turn a condition into a boon (30 second cooldown).

Those are the options available to Kit Engineers (because again, even though Elixer C isn't a kit, you don't lose your Kit license if you pick up a single Elixer utility skill), and they're pretty good.  My point isn't that this nerf was necessary but that it hasn't left you helpless against conditions.

Edited by BlaineTog, 28 February 2013 - 03:42 PM.

[Sagramor]

BlaineTog, on 28 February 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

Med Kit: Has a skill that clears all conditions on a 15 second cooldown.

Med Kit only cures one condition. Also Toss Elixir R should also be on your list, but it's used far less often as a condition removal.

[BlaineTog]

Sagramor, on 28 February 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

Med Kit only cures one condition. Also Toss Elixir R should also be on your list, but it's used far less often as a condition removal.

Thank you, fixed.

You're right about Toss Elixer R but I left it off because of the long cooldown, and because it's primarily to help res people.  That said, it would give a Kit Engineer an extra condition removal, extra support ability, and a stun breaker that refills endurance.

[coglin]

Again, I ask, what does elixir C have to do with kit builds. I have been very clear on this. Its as if you refuse to participate in the same conversation.

2. To try to influence (an official) to take a desired action.

You mean similarly to how you are trying to influence kit build users that they need to use elixirs? Or how your trying to influence us that this didn't cut 1/3 of the EG+FT condition removal?  My whole point is that dev post keep claiming the wanted to make class adjustments to make more builds viable. They have so many traits that link FT and EG. Then they change one of the truly functional traits to work in a manner that separates the benefit of the 2. We have 2-3 traits that push the use of the 2 kits together, then kit refinement removes one of their best and most useful synergistic functions.

[Plyte]

SweetDeepBullet, on 28 February 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

i crit 5K5 on bolt 4K mini on 1 spread, warrior crits for 10K each 4sec and constant ae front for 4K?? damn i need reroll

Yeah, just looked at a full berserker warrior 100 blades for 19k in CoF which lowers you to level 75, a bit more than 10k.  I do understand yer not in full berserkers though.

Whats this bolt you are talking about?  Flame blast?

[BlaineTog]

coglin, on 28 February 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

Again, I ask, what does elixir C have to do with kit builds. I have been very clear on this.

It's something kit-users can fit into their builds with minimal investment.  It would be like if I were playing a Glyph or Signet Elementalist but put Mist Form on my bar as an oh-kitten button.  I realize that you want to be able to do everything with kits but that's not how the game works.  Sometimes, it makes sense to branch out a little and that's fine.  Everyone has that option and that choice to make.  Especially in PvE where you'll have time to tailor your skill bar to each area.  Fighting condition-heavy mobs?  Might be a good idea to up your condition removal with Elixer C.  Fighting a boss with a massive stun?  Elixer R can help.  Have you been running into a lot of blinds?  Time to break out the Utility Goggles for a while.

I'm just saying, these are the tools available to you.  I realize that you want to be able to use your Swiss army knife all the time and you totally can, but sometimes a hammer or power sander or socket wrench will get the job at hand done better.

Most of PvE is pretty darn easy anyway.  I mostly ran Turrets when I leveled up my Engineer knowing they were bad but just not caring because I was having so much fun killing centaurs and Inquest and Dredge with my turrets and it worked just fine.  Do you know how much condition removal Turret Engis have?  One.  Exactly one.  And it's on a 60 second cooldown.  And that was fine, because PvE is easy.

coglin, on 28 February 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

You mean similarly to how you are trying to influence kit build users that they need to use elixirs?

I'm not trying to "influence" anyone in the way that word is being used there.  I'm pointing out that you're not screwed and that you still have options.

I don't mean to upset you and I don't mean to be troublesome.  My point isn't to say that this nerf ultimately should or should not have happened.  My point is, given that it has happened, you don't need to throw your hands up in despair and roll a Guardian.  If you want to lobby ANet to un-nerf it or at least to remove the individual cooldowns (which does make sense to me), go and do that on the official forums.  But try to keep a level head and avoid rampant exaggeration about how this nerf ruined your experience because game designers are more likely to engage with fans who present their case reasonable than fans who rant.  Passion is one thing, tangible rage is another.

[coglin]

BlaineTog, on 28 February 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

.  My point isn't to say that this nerf ultimately should or should not have happened.  My point is, given that it has happened, you don't need to throw your hands up in despair and roll a Guardian.  If you want to lobby ANet to un-nerf it or at least to remove the individual cooldowns (which does make sense to me), go and do that on the official forums.

Yes, I already made a thread on the suggestions section in the official forums. As well I sent in a suggestion and explanation in on it in the bug report area where they offer a suggestions tab.

We had 3 traits that effected both EG+FT. Which in itself, suggested their intent was to have them energized and working together. As kits have zero stun breakers and very very very limited condition removal, it appeared logical that using EG+FT in one build was their intention. The point is, under that idea that a very large portion of the community adhered to, this change works counter productive to that.