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Stealth Now Useless?

stealth thief mesmer

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#1 ShezuTsukai

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:52 PM

With the February 26 update changing stealth to no longer reset monster aggro table; has stealth become useless versus all but players?

I ask this because earlier today I was working on dailies in a border land. Krait Island was grey so I decided to hit it. This would yield several kills and a veteran. So I did my usual jump in the middle, drop caltrops, lay down poison field, and proceed to dagger storm. This usually drops half and leaves the rest except vet bleeding and poisoned enough to quickly finish off.

A preponderance of Necro wells left me past half health so I hit a smoke cloud and stealthed. The vet and four others gave chase. I dodge rolled, went behind a wall and pillar, hit shadow refuge to extend stealth and heal. They continued to use range attacks, chase, and the vet even used his ranged kd all while I am in stealth, dodging, and hiding behind blocking terrain.

So I ask again if mobs can chase, attack, maintain aggro, and basically see a stealthed character is stealth even viable now?

#2 BlaineTog

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:01 PM

This sounds like either a bug, or you were accidentally breaking stealth. Stealth was working for me just fine yesterday; the change only made it so you don't have to worry about monsters suddenly getting out-of-combat health regen just because you stayed in stealth for 2 seconds instead of 1.

#3 Stollniokas

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:07 PM

Several of guildies had same problem,, if that is intended, stealth is useless in pve

#4 ShezuTsukai

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:35 PM

Didn't break stealth. I was invisible on my screen and the revealed icon was not up. I just ran through Karka island to test. As long as I didn't have aggro stealth worked. But if I attacked first they followed with melee attacks for a long ways.

In other words if you don't have aggro you won't gain it but if you have it you can't lose it.

#5 Kurosov

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:38 PM

As i only ever used stealth as a trigger for backstab...No.

#6 Loperdos

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:46 PM

I would say that if that is the case, then it certainly is cause for concern.  If stealth does not even make it so the mobs aren't able to continue attacking you (outside of channeled abilities that they started before stealth...but that's a whole other issue, and let's not get started on that :D), then something is quite wrong with the stealth mechanic as it is.

I have to admit, I was playing on my thief a bit yesterday and didn't really notice all that much difference between stealth now and stealth before the patch, so I don't really know, but your experiences intrigue me, perhaps I shall do some play-tests in PvE just for kicks and giggles when I get a chance.

On the one hand, yeah this would be disheartening to see stealth pushed to this...pigeon-hole of a BS activator and that's it (if that's the case and the intended function, why do we have an entire trait-line devoted to making stealth and stealth skills better?).  But on the other hand, it is certainly something to adapt to, and the thief class players have certainly adapted since launch to a variety of new experiences on our thieves, so perhaps we'll figure out how to make it work anyway?

*shrugs* Only time will tell.

#7 tfckmk988

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:00 PM

View PostShezuTsukai, on 28 February 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

Didn't break stealth. I was invisible on my screen and the revealed icon was not up. I just ran through Karka island to test. As long as I didn't have aggro stealth worked. But if I attacked first they followed with melee attacks for a long ways.

In other words if you don't have aggro you won't gain it but if you have it you can't lose it.

seems to me that you should report the bug in the main forums won't hurt either way

#8 heatrr

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:05 PM

I am not sure what is going on with some of you, but stealth still works. Just keep in mind that the number of monsters, per se' that can see past stealth deceptions/uses has seemingly increased.

Edited by heatrr, 28 February 2013 - 03:05 PM.


#9 Leafar

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:15 PM

View Postheatrr, on 28 February 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

Just keep in mind that the number of monsters, per se' that can see past stealth deceptions/uses has seemingly increased.

This in it self is a problem imo.

#10 Rumstein

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:25 PM

What the patch notes meant was:

When you stealth, you no longer drop off the monster aggro table.
Previously... when you use stealth your aggro resets to 0, now it keeps the same value, but goes nowhere in the time you stealth (you could be 2nd with 1500/1400/1300/1200/1000, stealth, and then come back at 3rd with 1600/1500/1400/1200/1100 - These are stupid numbers to illustrate a point).

It in no way means that monsters attack through stealth. Generally though, If a mob is using a channeled/multiple shot ability, it will continue hitting the same spot when stealth starts, this is most likely what you are experiencing (honestly, krait are notorious for this). It is not a "hitting through stealth" thing, just a "you are still in the projectile path" thing.

#11 ShezuTsukai

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:39 PM

Then you are not reading Rumstein. The krait and karka followed through a dodge and around blocking terrain. Not channelled skills, not staying in aoe, or in a melee area.

Now creatures seeing through stealth is a new one to me. It makes sense if they are immune to blind effects but otherwise I don't see a point.

#12 xtbx

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:46 PM

View Postheatrr, on 28 February 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

I am not sure what is going on with some of you, but stealth still works. Just keep in mind that the number of monsters, per se' that can see past stealth deceptions/uses has seemingly increased.
can u name some of them? I don't know any mob that can see through stealth

#13 geist burdill

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:48 PM

I second the OP. I also had problems in that specific part of www. They see you,  no chanelled stuff at work here. Alone, as a thief, you cant no longer solo that event, unless you use extreme caution, hide a lot in los, heal constantly, etc. but you struggle. Also, play against a human (player) mesmer with phantasm build, and watch as they basically see through stealth. I dont mean the pistoleer chanelled atacks, i mean ibeserker, iswordsman, etc., they give you away a lot as they drop attacking too slowly. Its a mess this update. As a thief, specially in pve, your means of protection is going stealth, and thats when you heal and remove conditions also, this just messes that up.

#14 BlaineTog

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:56 PM

Playing through Straights of Devastation right now.  Stealth seems to be working fine for me (though there's never enough stealth under water... sigh...).  What I'm noticing is that monsters stop when I stealth instead of instantly turning around and walking back to their starting locations and sometimes they'll throw one more skill, but the skills usually miss if I move at all.

#15 adra12

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 04:41 PM

If this is true "Pet" classes would be a hard counter to invisibility which would be huge. It would give increased PvP value to mesmers, rangers and Minion Master Necros, the latter two could use it, the first not so much.

But yeah it would totally ruin invisibility for PvE.

#16 Vysander

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:06 PM

View Postadra12, on 28 February 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

If this is true "Pet" classes would be a hard counter to invisibility which would be huge. It would give increased PvP value to mesmers, rangers and Minion Master Necros, the latter two could use it, the first not so much.

But yeah it would totally ruin invisibility for PvE.

While i agree with the statement, that is no means to justify a change like this (if this isnt just a glitch for a few people). You dont fix one class by gimping another class.

Though I am with those who have not had this problem. Will really pay attention tonight, but i have not had mobs continue pursuing while in stealth (aside from the obvious channeled skills).

#17 BnJ

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:45 PM

Sounds like an unintentional bug, definitely not intended.  I haven't experienced this on my thief at all so far.

The change as Rumstein explained means that now when you stealth you no longer drop off the NPCs aggro table.  They shouldn't be attacking you while in stealth unless you're getting hit with a channeled attack that was precast before you hit stealth.

Report it if it happens again.

#18 GrandmaFunk

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:59 PM

The change to stealth/aggro is actually a huge improvement for thieves in PVE... we can now face a Skill Point mob or a champion and not have them insta reset to full health just because our heal put us in stealth for half a second.

#19 Soki

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:10 PM

View PostRumstein, on 28 February 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

Generally though, If a mob is using a channeled/multiple shot ability, it will continue hitting the same spot when stealth starts, this is most likely what you are experiencing (honestly, krait are notorious for this). It is not a "hitting through stealth" thing, just a "you are still in the projectile path" thing.
Actually, most mobs will track you with abilities like that through stealth - and always have.
Any channeled mob attack will trace you in stealth.

#20 Jump_N_Move

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:19 PM

yea they have the old auto-move to cast feature of GW1. If they are in the middle of a cast or skill activation they will follow you till in range to execute the skill. Even through stealth. Stealth just means that after the attack they will go back to ignoring you. That's been that way since the beta.  Now they are just more stubborn to run away.

#21 Alex Dimitri

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 12:43 AM

Well i don`t know about Thief longer stealth but on Mesmer mobs finish up channeled skills or if they are in agro switch to clone, but soon as i`m back from stealth they focus me again.....(which is how it`s supposed to be). Also i use S/Torch combo (torch skill The Prestige) when i activate it mobs don`t hit me (you get hit only by ground targeted AoE spells/attacks). However i`m still to test Mass Invisibility (elite).

#22 I'm Squirrel

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 12:57 AM

seems like a bug, when I went stealth with my mesmer, my target just stood there as I attacked him.

#23 Karuro

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 01:31 AM

The gravelings in AC pre-update already pulled that on me.
They attack and KD me. I throw up a stealth skill to save my hide because I'm a defenseless sitting duck now, but nope.
They happily keep attacking me through stealth until I'm defeated.

Haven't been in AC yet post-update though.

#24 MeltyLotus

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 01:34 AM

NPCs seem to keep target lock on you when you stealth now. They seem to know where you are and that you will come right back. Also, if you do manage to stealth and get outside of their aggro range they still keep aggro and then chase you.

That's the bug imo. If you come back outside of their aggro they shouldn't aggro you. It's normal for it happen when you in it. But now stealth casues them to chase you until they reach their limit. It's like running across a map as a warrior expect one hit can kill you in a instant.

#25 elmprotector

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:29 AM

Well pve wise is sounds messed up... but for WvW... lol the uber op perma stealth while bleeding the heck out of 4 enemies is done then. Which sounds awesome to me.  Now if you want to cheese perma stealth you better avoid that players pet.. which sounds like a great way to even out the cheese that is perma stealth thieves.

Please tell me the WvW stays in and then we can watch the cheese players leave the thief class and look for a new op face roll class to play in WvW.





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