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Exposing the Truth, Past and Present.


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#1 Entombed

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:39 PM

Purpose:  In effect, what I intend to do is expose ArenaNet of lies, deceit, and otherwise facilitating or spreading  false information for the sole purpose of garnering favor, attention, and playtime from the general public and its customers.  I intend to do this relatively systematically with use of direct quotes from the company, a list of facts, occasionally brief personal experiences and commentary, and a logical conclusion.

(This was originally designed for the official forum, although due to length I am posting elsewhere and I hope to have an abbreviated form on the official site soon.  I have taken careful consideration to keep this post from being incendiary or rude to the community, the players, and of course, the ArenaNet staff.  Any names cited, were for sole purpose of attributing ownership to used quotes and not meant to insult, or be otherwise disresectful to anyone.  I hope you agree, that I have followed the Code of Conduct to the best of my ability, to keep this thread from being deleted and to inspire useful discussions by all parties involved.)

Let’s start with something small.  It’s the moment to moment details that reveal the work ethic of a company and its concern for its players.  For those who don’t know Final Rest was a staff discovered in the game files that is visually unique and appealing to many.  However, for months the staff could not be found in-game.  Many player’s attempted to go to the forums, ask questions in interviews/AMAs, and even message employee’s in-game to discover it’s location or to show ArenaNet that it was indeed bugged.


Final Rest:

“I can’t give away any spoilers, but I can confirm that I’ve looked at the loot tables, and it is in the game. It’s a very rare reward from defeating a boss in the open world.”

"Just a quick note—I said the odds of it dropping was closer to .005 than the 1 in a million or so that was tossed out. Those aren’t the exact odds, but if my math is correct, 10 players running the event every day might expect one staff to drop after about 7 months. (And we haven’t been out that long.)"

-All from Jeffery Vaughn

The Facts:

-There are easily more than 10 (albeit likely different) people who participate in the event daily with various amounts of magic find.  

-We were told it was not a bug, but a rare spawn that would take 10 players 7 months to see a single staff drop.

-In six months post-launch, we have not seen a single Final Rest.

-March patch = boom hundreds of Final Rests.

Logical Conclusion:  When you said you “boosted” the drop rate in a recent quote, you really meant included it in the drop table bug free, and decreased it’s rarity several logs.


Question in a Recent Interview: Where's Final Rest?

Colin: Someday you will all discover it and everybody will be really excited.

How does a bug fix on a staff dropping from an event that many people do daily, make us all “really excited”?

As easily surmised, it’s not only easy, but probable a company will be make poorly worded quotes without malicious intent.


Ascended Gear

Let’s move to the now infamous ascended gear debate, albeit briefly.  There are many arguments for either side that has been said and heard hundreds, if not thousands of times. I intend to avoid it, and expose direct quotes which are plainly “wrong.”

Ascended Gear Quotes:


“We absolutely design everything we do with minimal grind and will continue with this principal moving forward.”

-Chris Whiteside

What is your/ANet’s definition of grind?

Repetitive game play that is not fun. –Chris Whiteside

These quotes were taken from a Reddit AMA in November of last year.  At the time Ascended gear could only be achieved through Fractals, a mistake that was later admitted to by the company.  We have since moved to several, yet still unachievable in major features of the game like WvW, options of achieving them.  You can do dailies for approximately a month for each ascended piece of gear. You can farm guild missions and commendations, and achieve them through a combination of gold and commendations, or 40 laurels and 50 ectoplasms. Or you can simply gain some from Fractals, or a combination of materials (gained from Fractals) and craft your own.  The problem is that these are largely out of reach by a majority of the playerbase without investment of significant “grinding.”  Dailies are often the definition of “do these things every day” and achieve a small reward.  ArenaNet has now provided a diversity of things that we can do to achieve a daily, which has only missed the point.  If you kill 20 rabbits one day, and then are asked to kill 20 underwater creatures the next, that doesn’t suddenly change the nature of the daily. It’s intended to be a short repetitive activity that is completed daily or nearly daily to artificially create a form of progression for an item.  It’s still repetitive…and as one of the few opinions in this thread, is not fun.  I have yet to find myself, friends, guildmates, or anyone exclaim “I’m excited to do my daily today!”

Recent Events

Let’s move to the current January/February Release window and talk about a quote that has been thrown around quite a bit by the community, and examine the recent releases of content.

January/February Release Quote:


"But January and February are actually our biggest updates to date. They’re even bigger than all the stuff we did in October, November and December. And I think that when people see how much stuff they’re gonna get for no monthly fee in January and February, they’re probably going to be blown away. These two months combined are basically an expansion’s worth of content for free."
-Colin Johanson

The Facts:
-The WvW patch that was slated for January, was pushed back to February, and then moved back to March was originally intended in the “expansion worth of content” Colin was referring to at the time.

-There are usually around 5 major features in each patch, which typically include, for lack of a better word, content.

-2 of the 5 for February’s patch were “Choosing Your Own Daily Achievements” and Previewing on the Trading Post.

-The only additional content increase in February were a couple of cash shop items, a new sPvP map, and essentially the addition of portals and non-unique enemies in the Living Story.  

-January included guesting that was intended to be included at launch, an improved achievement system, and bug fixes to WvW.  

-The major points of a patch should not include bug-fixes and revamps of existing, broken content.  

Logical Conclusion: What we have seen is nothing even resembling an expansion worth of content.  (Even if you want to include March’s content, which admittedly has yet to be fully revealed, it would not resemble an expansion.)


WvW

Let’s move to WvW, arguably one of ArenaNet’s most popular features.  In six months of release, the only thing added to WvW were bug fixes.  Instead of attempting to stop hacks and exploits by single players, ArenaNet chose to simply remove the orb system.  Before everything was incredibly dynamic, due to mismanagement in realm populations (free realm transfers for roughly five months again due to guesting), and no, we see the opposite side of that coin, it’s static to the point of decay.  Realm ranks are hardly changing, and each week the story seems to remain the same.  The same realms place 1st, 2nd, or 3rd each week, rarely changing tiers.  No forms of progression or reward have been added in six months, and we are holding on the promise that the WvW patch will come out next month.  Even with the promise of new content, it’s the length of time that has passed that is discouraging for many of us.  

We have seen dungeon revamp after dungeon revamp, waiting for you to finally get it right.  We have watched you include temporary content again and again, without adding to the core of the game.  We have been waiting for ArenaNet to wake up and improve on their original design.

Let’s examine material that has yet to be fully made, that holds the potential of promise, and a return to original design principles:

The Living Story

We have seen two installments of the story, with the promise of much more exciting material to come in March.  

The Facts:

-The first installment included random NPCs walking towards two major cities in two zones that “needed” aid.  

-It included collecting mementos, fixing signs, and curing the cripple condition off them, with less than 5 unique dynamic events and a single title to come with it.

-The second installment now includes two main objectives, fighting portal-spawning enemies, and providing refugees with lost items.  

Logical Conclusion:  There are not a lot of content or interesting things to do in-game involving the living story.

An addition of twenty dynamic events would arguably have more content than these last two installments of the living story.  There is nothing that makes it special, unique, rewarding or even interesting to the average player.  And once again, we are relying on a promise by Angel McCoy, a chief architect along with Ree Soesbee and Jeff Grubb that created the lackluster personal story.  Even worse, it appears as though ArenaNet is making the same mistakes.  


“In order to make this easier on ourselves, and on you, we’ll be introducing a set of characters specific to the Living Story, at the end of March. Hint: one’s a norn, and one’s a charr.”
-Angel McCoy

The Facts:

-In both the Lost Isles Patch and the Halloween patch,the ArenaNet team was largely criticized for a lackluster, initial phase of events because there weren’t many things a player could do.

-The Personal Story was largely criticized for revolving around a NPC rather than the player, making the player feel less than heroic.

-The Living Story appears to have the same flaws as both the previous patches and Personal Story.  

Logical Conclusion:

ArenaNet is not learning from past mistakes.




I could use this remaining time to talk about the blatant lack of additional skins to the game.  The large majority of skins released have been temporary releases.  I could elaborate more on the failures of the Personal Story, and the complete reluctance by ArenaNet to address or fix it.  I could address the growing concern by sPvP players that ArenaNet is not doing enough for the e-sport community.  However, I think by now you understand my point.  I am not satisfied with the games progress post-launch, nor do I find it acceptable for ArenaNet to continue to make false claims nor learn from previous self-admitted mistakes.

In conclusion, this post is meant to raise public awareness of ArenaNet’s past remarks and errors, and enact change to the game to make it better.  ArenaNet, you can do better.

-Aeneas
Sanctum of Rall

Edited by Entombed, 01 March 2013 - 05:44 PM.


#2 AsgarZigel

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 06:17 PM

Uhm... well they promised stuff and they didn't hold their promise, but everyone can see that. How is rehashing all of that an analysis?
I guess if this was intended for other game communities it makes sense, but every GW2 player should know that already, because, you know, they experienced it firsthand.

It really just boils down to the fact that ANets PR leaves a lot to be desired... I don't know, I find the updates still reasonable and fun enough, I just stopped believing the marketing stuff a while ago.

#3 El Duderino

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 06:22 PM

Personally, I don't think a lot of this is intentional. Rather, I think ArenaNet means well, but doesn't have the resources or the connection with their customers to make the best choices.

Yes, I know they communicate better than most companies, but their updates rarely seem to appease or appeal to the glaring problems most people can agree on.

Also, I think Final Rest was a fixed glitch, or added to the game. I think there was a 0% chance of it dropping before, and it is now fixed.

#4 raspberry jam

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 06:23 PM

Good post.
This is similar to the thread about the promises ANet made before release and how well they came through with them (which they didn't).

#5 Tyrantscreed

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 06:23 PM

Their bait has cake.

We bite it.

It's a rock.

#6 lmaonade

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 06:42 PM

View PostTyrantscreed, on 01 March 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

Their bait has cake.

We bite it.

It's a rock.

Anet is GLaDOS in disguise

#7 Azure Skye

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 06:45 PM

i was going to write a long post but that won't do it justice,  you can't please everyone, its a nearly f'in impossible.

Edited by Azure Skye, 01 March 2013 - 06:45 PM.


#8 Al Shamari

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 06:48 PM

I'm just laughing at the fact that this was written as though it has some intentions of being come Zeitgeist conspiracy theorist report, or ripped from Wikileaks. You're not uncovering anything that hasn't already been stated hundreds of times.

#9 Sans

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 06:51 PM

About the final rest...
The shadow behemoth event was bugged for a very very long time, for most servers it only worked once after a server update, then it bugged again.

That on top of the fact that drops from chest were terrible compared to now, I believe the part about it being very very rare.

Also, most people actually trying to get a Final Rest before thought it was at the zho qafa catacombs.

Also, Magic find doesn't affect chest drops.

how about you state some facts.....

#10 El Duderino

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 06:53 PM

View PostSans, on 01 March 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:

how about you state some facts.....

Which part wasn't factual?

#11 Featherman

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 06:56 PM

I don't disagree with the intent of this thread. ANet has dropped the ball on several occasions, with the most spectacular example being Lost Shores update. There's nothing that isn't obvious either, but there is one thing I do disagree with.

I believe the WvW update was probably pushed back to finalize the tweaks with the game engine to better handle culling (they fixed it btw, at least sorta fixed it). I'm no software engineer, but maybe PvE content was easier for them to implement than re-engineering their game engine.

Also, progression and rewards are a slippery slope, and if not designed well can ruin the WvW experience. For that particular aspect I'd actually prefer that ANet take their time. We've already seen the backlash with their initial handling of ascended items.

#12 Lunacy Polish

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 06:58 PM

View PostAl Shamari, on 01 March 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

I'm just laughing at the fact that this was written as though it has some intentions of being come Zeitgeist conspiracy theorist report, or ripped from Wikileaks. You're not uncovering anything that hasn't already been stated hundreds of times.

I imagined the theme from the X files playing while I read it.

Yes Arenanet seriously overstated themselves multiple times.  Disappointing?   Sure.  Reprehensible?   Somewhat.  Over it?  Already am.

#13 Entombed

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 07:02 PM

View PostAl Shamari, on 01 March 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

I'm just laughing at the fact that this was written as though it has some intentions of being come Zeitgeist conspiracy theorist report, or ripped from Wikileaks. You're not uncovering anything that hasn't already been stated hundreds of times.

After a little bit of review, I think you are right.  I think this is maybe less of exposing, and more a case of reviewing.   However, I have never seen the culmination of what I said, with a widespread list of topics, as well as a careful review of quotes, and misinformation placed logically, and well thought out.  The culmination of what is written has the potential to change the image of ArenaNet for many people who do not follow the day to day trackings of ArenaNet.  Previously listed rants by individuals as well as single hot issues usually do not change minds.  However, a closer examination including a general review of six months of post-launch data just might.

#14 Al Shamari

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 07:07 PM

View PostEntombed, on 01 March 2013 - 07:02 PM, said:

After a little bit of review, I think you are right.  I think this is maybe less of exposing, and more a case of reviewing.   However, I have never seen the culmination of what I said, with a widespread list of topics, as well as a careful review of quotes, and misinformation placed logically, and well thought out.  The culmination of what is written has the potential to change the image of ArenaNet for many people who do not follow the day to day trackings of ArenaNet.  Previously listed rants by individuals as well as single hot issues usually do not change minds.  However, a closer examination including a general review of six months of post-launch data just might.
Nope.

#15 Arich

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 07:08 PM

Good post overall imo.  The living story stuff has been lackluster thus far.  Running around clicking on broken signs does not a story make.

#16 Sans

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 07:21 PM

View PostEl Duderino, on 01 March 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

Which part wasn't factual?


Would have been better stated if I said, state ALL the facts.

Edited by Khalija, 01 March 2013 - 07:40 PM.
removed reply to deleted content


#17 Entombed

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 07:35 PM

View PostAl Shamari, on 01 March 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:


I actually had never seen that post before.  So I apologize, I don't frequent Guru as often as I did before launch.  It's decent.  However, I'm still not a huge fan of the format, it's very disconnected between topics and the tone is a little bit more incendiary, and more than a little disrespectful to ArenaNet.  

I share a similar view to you.  The game has flaws, every game does.  I would like to see the game improve, and I believe that public opinion has an effect on the choices game developers make down the road.  This thread shares a similar purpose as a review article in Nature or Cell or another notable journal.  (Sorry, I'm a scientist and trying to find something more universal to compare it to.)  It doesn't provide novel discoveries, but it summarizes them, makes them easy to understand, and proposes a course of action for the field in the future.  If we can get ArenaNet to learn from their mistakes, yes they will make new ones...but the game will get better.  I still play because I maintain hope in the developers to make one of the best MMOs on the market.

#18 Ingway

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 07:48 PM

This is all true but like some have said, many knew it alredy... most are just sucking it up in expectation to see if the game will improve again... I personally can wait but also hoping anet dosn't overstate their promises anymore to the point of the end result being massively dissapointing.

#19 Vysander

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 08:12 PM

View PostJuanele, on 01 March 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

some people take games way too seriously

QFT

I think some people need to realize that game companies are businesses. And that programming can be a straight bitch sometimes.
There are in game metrics in place to let A-net know what people have the most trouble with. This is largely how balancing and priorities are set. Sometimes the PR department and the Dev department dont agree on what can be done.

If the direction your "favorite" game is going is such a big problem in your life that you have the time and energy to write lengthy forum posts and defend them, then you should consider yourself pretty *ing lucky.

Are there problems with this game? Sure, what game doesn't have problems. Do i think A-net are intentionally misleading us? No more then any other company in the history of business. Does the fact that not every idea they talk about come out, or come out as talked about hurt me? Hell no. If they were to actually take this game in a direction where it did become unplayable to me? I would send in in-game support claims on the matter. Not bitch about it on a non-official (or even official) forum.

*edit* I feel like i should note that this is not intended to be taken in a bad way by the OP. just that i've seen so many topics on stuff like this that this is a bit of a vent. And yes, i do see the irony in my venting on this topic and what i said in my post.

Edited by Vysander, 01 March 2013 - 08:25 PM.


#20 Al Shamari

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 08:28 PM

Sometimes I wonder how playing would feel if I didn't read a single forum post, the notes from a single patch, etc... could be interesting.

#21 ShezuTsukai

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 09:56 PM

Unmet expectations are the root of every relational breakdown.

Whether its a romance, marriage, business partnership, etc. when reality is too far a field from what was anticipated one of two things must occur for the relationship to continue.
1. Reality must adjust and improve to meet expectations.
2. Expectations must adjust to meet reality.

I would suggest that the gamers look at what they expect from this game and what has been provided and adjust accordingly for enjoyments sake. I also suggest that Anet continue to adjust what they have provided to further suit the expectations of the gamers for services sake. I would also propose for Anet to stop overly hyping and increasing expectations to the point of being unable to deliver.

#22 Loperdos

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 06:36 PM

View PostAl Shamari, on 01 March 2013 - 08:28 PM, said:

Sometimes I wonder how playing would feel if I didn't read a single forum post, the notes from a single patch, etc... could be interesting.

Two of my friends who I play with do this very thing. Their two main perspectives (they both come from extensive MMO backgrounds, one played GW1, one did not):
"This game is good, has some bugs and flaws, but hey, its a new game still compared to most major MMOs out there."
"Holy moly, you can level SUPER fast in this game."

To the OP: I will definitely agree that there has been some miscommunication between Anet's PR department and their programming/development department.  You do point out some interesting facts, but they do seem to be, largely, beaten to death in a good chunk of the forums revolving around GW2.  I think one of the main issues that is going on is that the PR department is paid to be overly optimistic, excited and enthusiastic about their game, whereas the "frontline" programmers and developers would probably give you a different perspective (more realistic or pessimistic, depending on how you want to perceive it) on how the game is, and how they are working on various areas, etc.

#23 Alot

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 06:56 PM

Didn't I read the exact same post yesterday? Oh wait a second, I did.

#24 Graka

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 06:57 PM

Exposing the .... oh wait its not really exposing anything, its just stuff people already know about that they have tried to fix, or things that are being misrepresented such as OMG they didn't do guesting at launch! and yet they gave everyone free transfers till guesting actually kicked in, man they really shafted us on the money grubbing for those free transfers, cause you know taking 0 from my gem amount takes me down to hmm... wait a minute it doesnt take any of my gems.

Please if your going to write an exposé like your freaking unearthing dark secrets, or Bob Woodward dishing on Nixon, actually put something relevant in, and do some actual journalistic effort, you only put in information that supports your claim while completly ignoring stuff that refutes what your saying, this is honestly trash.

#25 Gerroh

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 07:31 PM

The "analysis" of the Final Rest portion leads me to believe that OP doesn't understand how random chance works.
I skimmed past the rest mostly out of apathy, but people thinking random chance means guarantee after X instances really drives me nuts.

#26 DerKomp

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 07:49 PM

There's some proud parents out there because their child learned so well how to scrutinize every word from someone who is trying to provide them a service and write long posts about it on the internet.

#27 Cures

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 07:59 PM

what an unnecessary, unlikeable pile of steaming, warm shit ^^

#28 Zan7

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 08:05 PM

Companies lie to get money?
What a surprise. :o

#29 Arewn

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 08:10 PM

To surmise the OP's post:
Some stuff about a staff maybe not having the exact drop rate Anet made an example of it having.
Subjective complaints about Ascended gear grind.
Development was delayed and they were late.
The living story portion of the patches have been lackluster.
Conclusion paragraph with blanket points consisting of personal dissatisfaction and popular complaints.


Oh the lies and deceit! better hit the tabloids with this stuff.
No but seriously, a few missed "promises" by Anet is the least of my concerns. I don't particularly care for this kind of cherry picking.

#30 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 08:26 PM

View PostVysander, on 01 March 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

I think some people need to realize that game companies are businesses.

And we are their consumers.

I'd love to hear people defend faulty laundry detergent so passionately

Edited by Ritualist, 02 March 2013 - 08:51 PM.





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