54 replies to this topic

[Impmon]

By new content I mean "editing" the existing content.  Editing as in the multiple 4-5+ champion npc's with insta dead abilities that now spawn during defend the camps in Cursed Shore.  

Yet the reward is exactly the same as previous ?  

Does Anet not want us to do these dynamic events ?  Why did they change this ?

If you're going to make it more difficult the reward should increase likewise.

Yeah yeah people who are completionist farmers will reply saying "I like it makes it more interesting !"  So you like working harder for less pay ?  Go nuts man but that's not for me.

I've noticed a pattern here of Anet repeatedly editing existing content claiming its new and forcing us to slog through it for next to no rewards.

[jthamind]

Impmon, on 03 March 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

So you like working harder for less pay ?  Go nuts man but that's not for me

to me, this statement sums up 99% of what is wrong with MMOs i've played. stop viewing it like work and...you know, have fun with it? it's a game.

[Featherman]

I don't find enemies more interesting or truly difficult at all with this update. In fact they've become more annoying. It's impossible to fight certain groups of enemies without getting cced and snared up the for almost the entire fight. Add this to the fact that they haven't improved telegraphing at all.

Edited by Featherman, 03 March 2013 - 04:22 PM.

[Impmon]

jthamind, on 03 March 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

to me, this statement sums up 99% of what is wrong with MMOs i've played. stop viewing it like work and...you know, have fun with it? it's a game.

Its called a metaphor.  However, to go with your comment you can say that its fun to defend the camps in cursed shore more so then previous having to fight mutiple veterans & champions for the same rewards as previous ?

[Lordkrall]

I suppose you must have missed the fact that they buffed up the rewards (drops) quite a bit with the very same update then?

As far as I know they have NEVER claimed that the edits to existing content is completely new content, they have simply stated that they have changed/edit things in certain content.

[AsgarZigel]

If the reward is not worth it for you, don't do it. I agree that open world rewards should be beefed up a bit and they already started to do this with the better chest drops.

I like them trying to make the event scaling better though, it really got very stale after a while.

[Dasviidonja]

I never saw so many players who just continuosly want something for nothing or very little effort. So what they increased the challenge to get the same reward. If you don't like it QUIT PLAYING, because complaining about it will get you nothing. When players finally realize this is the developers game and not theirs they will have a whole lot more fun playing it or quit playing it that's the only choices they have.

[Impmon]

The arguments here are ludicrous.  What you're saying is you'd be happy if I took away one of your car tires and told you to be happy driving with what you have.  Hey it was my decision to take that tire too bad go drive that way its not your choice.  

Make sense ?  Hell no, that's what you're saying in a nutshell.

The other detractor from your opinion is that given their mistakes at trying to edit content by making it more difficult & you saying if you don't like it don't play.  I don't know many game companies that will be around for another year if they maintained that business model.

[Bloggi]

Those events are obviously a WIP that they previously discussed: scaling of events. These events used to be run by dozens of people that made it an absolute joke, so I'm guessing that now the event spawns tougher mobs depending on the number of people in the area. This has become tricky business now because there's a fine line between scaling content so it becomes challenging, and making it a poor waste of time and sending people elsewhere instead. Because let's face it...ultimately people are running all these events and what not for the perceived reward and the chance at fat loot.

IMHO the 'dragon' fights are now the biggest joke...auto-attack lag zerg fests that actually pay very well, especially for the people that don't speed run dungeons. People are running the 'dragons' once a day for each capable toon. At many times when we now try zoning into the area it actually goes into overflow (which doesn't have the event of course). I know people complained about poor loot, but seriously what's happening in reverse now is hilarious.

Edited by Bloggi, 04 March 2013 - 02:36 AM.

[lmaonade]

Dasviidonja, on 03 March 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

I never saw so many players who just continuosly want something for nothing or very little effort. So what they increased the challenge to get the same reward. If you don't like it QUIT PLAYING, because complaining about it will get you nothing. When players finally realize this is the developers game and not theirs they will have a whole lot more fun playing it or quit playing it that's the only choices they have.

it's not that people don't like a challenge, people just don't like shitty rewards. Content can be as challenging as anyone likes, I don't really care, I like challenge more than no challenge. But it is worth my time atm? No, absolutely not, rewards are shit don't even try to deny it

[Arewn]

Impmon, on 04 March 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:

The arguments here are ludicrous.  What you're saying is you'd be happy if I took away one of your car tires and told you to be happy driving with what you have.  Hey it was my decision to take that tire too bad go drive that way its not your choice.  

Make sense ?  Hell no, that's what you're saying in a nutshell.

The other detractor from your opinion is that given their mistakes at trying to edit content by making it more difficult & you saying if you don't like it don't play.  I don't know many game companies that will be around for another year if they maintained that business model.

With the ludicrous arguments you've been making, I find it ludicrous that you call the other arguments people are saying here ludicrous.

My warrior is currently in full greens. He's good to go. That's all he needs to participate in most content. And I would happily bring him on a dungeon run for absolutely no reward what so ever. Why? because I find it fun, I don't need a to be given a fancy trinket, have my photo taken with the mayor while receiving a special certificate, and get a lump sum of money to justify doing the content.
This isn't a matter of "omg they made my job harder, they need to give me a raise!", this is a video game.
They changed some content in an attempt to make it more interesting, and yes maybe more difficult in the process, but that doesn't mean they have to up the rewards to "match".

[Ritualist]

Arewn, on 04 March 2013 - 03:44 AM, said:

because I find it fun, I don't need a to be given a fancy trinket, have my photo taken with the mayor while receiving a special certificate, and get a lump sum of money to justify doing the content.

Remove repair fees, remove waypoint fees, reduce the price of cultural sets, ...
It's absolutely fantastic that you do not feel the need to be rewarded (well), but the game is designed to promote gathering of currencies: rewards matter. And people are just playing it that way..

[dannywolt]

Impmon, on 03 March 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Does Anet not want us to do these dynamic events ?  Why did they change this ?

A-Net is currently testing a new event scaling system so it is premature to conclude that they want the events to be this difficult. It clearly needs more tweaking, but I am glad to see A-Net working on a better system since these events had turned into a joke during prime-time.

[NuclearDonut]

For the first time in Guild Wars 2 history, I saw players really working together after this update. My trust has been restored in ANet and I can't understand how anyone would complain about the changes. I want even MORE changes to existing events to make them more interesting. Hopefully this is the start of something beautiful.

[Lordkrall]

Ritualist, on 04 March 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

Remove repair fees, remove waypoint fees, reduce the price of cultural sets, ...
It's absolutely fantastic that you do not feel the need to be rewarded (well), but the game is designed to promote gathering of currencies: rewards matter. And people are just playing it that way..

Ah yes, remove all those and it will be more or less impossible for anyone that don't more or less constantly live in game to buy anything useful.

[draxynnic]

The people really driving inflation are not being substantially affected by waypoint fees or repair costs - it's the casual players that get hit by those. For those players, regressive gold sinks serve to make it harder to get the stuff they want.

[Lordkrall]

draxynnic, on 04 March 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

The people really driving inflation are not being substantially affected by waypoint fees or repair costs - it's the casual players that get hit by those. For those players, regressive gold sinks serve to make it harder to get the stuff they want.

True, but without the goldsinks everyone would have way more gold, which would also, most likely, mean that stuff on the TP would increase quite a bit in prices.

It was after all not the people of Germany that started the inflation after the Great War and yet it was those that got effected by it.

[Eon Lilu]

Dasviidonja, on 03 March 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

I never saw so many players who just continuosly want something for nothing or very little effort. So what they increased the challenge to get the same reward. If you don't like it QUIT PLAYING, because complaining about it will get you nothing. When players finally realize this is the developers game and not theirs they will have a whole lot more fun playing it or quit playing it that's the only choices they have.

But it's not even a challenge....they just increase the health and give the boss one shot abilities you can dodge every few minutes....they don't even bother to put any effort into the boss mechanics or programming. It's like that ALL OVER THE GAME.....

Increasing something's health is not more of a challenge....it's just dragging out an already mind numbing boring encounter brb afk the boss gaming with crap rewards.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 04 March 2013 - 09:52 AM.

[Sans]

you mean those same events that were so easy that bots were camping and getting the full rewards by putting down a few traps?

It's great that they increased the difficulty. They were far too easy before.
Hope they make these changes across the whole game, adding veteran and champ mobs to all events

Edited by Sans, 04 March 2013 - 09:56 AM.

[Eon Lilu]

Sans, on 04 March 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

you mean those same events that were so easy that bots were camping and getting the full rewards by putting down a few traps?

It's great that they increased the difficulty. They were far too easy before.
Hope they make these changes across the whole game, adding veteran and champ mobs to all events

I agree changing the diffulculty is good, making things more challenging is good, but again giving something higher health and a few one shot abilties is not "challenging content" or making something more difficult, it just makes boring gameplay and encounters still boring but just take longer with crap rewards.

It's barely an anti bot mechanic but it is definetly not making anything more challenging....the boss encounters in this game well 90% of them are a joke to the gaming industry...

They need to be more imaginative with there mechanics and less lazy with there programming. Boosting an npc's health is not doing anything....except maybe make players not want to even play the content...because it isn't fun to just zerg or bash one target for 10 minutes and win for barely any effort, any skill or any challenge...

Edited by Eon Lilu, 04 March 2013 - 10:28 AM.

[Impmon]

dannywolt, on 04 March 2013 - 05:05 AM, said:

A-Net is currently testing a new event scaling system so it is premature to conclude that they want the events to be this difficult. It clearly needs more tweaking, but I am glad to see A-Net working on a better system since these events had turned into a joke during prime-time.

They still are a joke.  You can go spam a couple AOE's then go AFK and get gold contribution same as previous.  However if you decide to be one of the many rambo conan styles you have to deal with 50 veterans and 30 champions that drop blues & greens but with the same karka/etc.

Arewn, on 04 March 2013 - 03:44 AM, said:

With the ludicrous arguments you've been making, I find it ludicrous that you call the other arguments people are saying here ludicrous.

My warrior is currently in full greens. He's good to go. That's all he needs to participate in most content. And I would happily bring him on a dungeon run for absolutely no reward what so ever. Why? because I find it fun, I don't need a to be given a fancy trinket, have my photo taken with the mayor while receiving a special certificate, and get a lump sum of money to justify doing the content.
This isn't a matter of "omg they made my job harder, they need to give me a raise!", this is a video game.
They changed some content in an attempt to make it more interesting, and yes maybe more difficult in the process, but that doesn't mean they have to up the rewards to "match".

Good for you I'm glad you're happy but you're saying its ok for you to disagree with me but not for me to criticize what I don't like.  You're argument is therefore ludicrous.

[AsgarZigel]

Impmon said:

I don't know many game companies that will be around for another year if they maintained that business model.

That's exactly why we say "If you don't like it, don't play it". ANet monitors how many people play events and what they are doing, so if they see that less people are doing the events, they will at least see that something is wrong.

On the difficulty... yeah, it really comes down to the point that the game doesn't seem to be designed around MASSIVE multiplayer all that much. Even if I say "Ok, I have performance problems when a lot of people are around, but that's my problem because my computer is shit", the game simply isn't all that fun with 50 people around. Mobs just die in mere seconds, players dying has no impact and everything is such an effects cluster* that it's hard to see what a boss is even doing. None of the big fights have all that intricate mechanics and... I don't know. Maybe it's because of the "horde mentality" and players just don't get what to do? I remember the Tequatl fight being pretty intricate in the early videos, with multiple layers that needed players in all of them to succeed, instead of the "spank the dragon for a few minutes" it is now.

Maybe the guild challenges will be better, I don't know.

[Sans]

Eon Lilu, on 04 March 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

I agree changing the diffulculty is good, making things more challenging is good, but again giving something higher health and a few one shot abilties is not "challenging content" or making something more difficult, it just makes boring gameplay and encounters still boring but just take longer with crap rewards.

It's barely an anti bot mechanic but it is definetly not making anything more challenging....the boss encounters in this game well 90% of them are a joke to the gaming industry...

They need to be more imaginative with there mechanics and less lazy with there programming. Boosting an npc's health is not doing anything....except maybe make players not want to even play the content...because it isn't fun to just zerg or bash one target for 10 minutes and win for barely any effort, any skill or any challenge...

Those mobs need more health because they used to die to all the AoE before they got even one attack off.
Was that fun? No. It was boring.

As for those big 1 shot attacks, they're rarely 1 shot.
Full berserker teams are able to get through basically every dungeon path in the game.
(Strife runs a nearly full berserker team, and gets through them easily https://www.youtube.com/strife025)

Since they're no healers, and you have only 1 dedicated heal skill which heals for about 50%+ of your total health, you need attacks that counter that heal. Then you have dodge for when that heal is on recharge.

If everything attacked at the speed of a Abomination, even if they hit for much smaller amounts, your 1 heal and 2 dodges wouldn't be enough to heal through the damage.

If they decreased the recharge of your dedicated heal, and increased your endurance recharge rate, then mobs would attack faster, and hit for smaller amounts.

The amount of damage you take has to be = to the amount you can heal/avoid.

Edited by Sans, 04 March 2013 - 01:57 PM.

[Grim_Ling]

I tend to agree with the OP.... They implimented this "new" event style which I have seen, however, it really doesn't add to the difficulty it just adds to the tediousness. The fact that you can get hit for 15k dmg (get downed) and get hit for another 15k dmg in the matter of 2 seconds is just bad... I understand the concept of event scaling but it seems they don't ever test their product before they release it to the public... I know they would need every single staff member to play 1 event to see how it scales but doing this 1 time they would realize there are flaws that need to be fixed. (yes i understand they may still have unknown bugs until they get a real live test but some of these seem a bit rediculous)
Also with this update... more events are broken.... again....

I dont like the 1 time/24 hours chest but I can at least understand it.... it makes me not play the content I actually enjoyed as much but I get why it was implimented.

Also all you fanboys out there who refuse to see the brokeness of some of their systems need to open your eyes... I for one still REALLY enjoy this game. I dont understand some of the design decisions and I dont play certain areas because of them but I do enjoy the portions I play.

Edited by Feathermoore, 04 March 2013 - 09:27 PM.
removed quote of deleted content.

[Arewn]

Impmon, on 04 March 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

Good for you I'm glad you're happy but you're saying its ok for you to disagree with me but not for me to criticize what I don't like.  You're argument is therefore ludicrous.

The first line was a poke at you for calling all dissenting opinions 'ludicrous'

Ritualist, on 04 March 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

Remove repair fees, remove waypoint fees, reduce the price of cultural sets, ...
It's absolutely fantastic that you do not feel the need to be rewarded (well), but the game is designed to promote gathering of currencies: rewards matter. And people are just playing it that way..

Missing the point,
Upkeep costs aside, I'm willing to do content for it's entertainement value, not because it's a job and I require payement and a point for point raises when difficulty changes. Of course rewards matter.

[draxynnic]

Lordkrall, on 04 March 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

True, but without the goldsinks everyone would have way more gold, which would also, most likely, mean that stuff on the TP would increase quite a bit in prices.

It was after all not the people of Germany that started the inflation after the Great War and yet it was those that got effected by it.

That's a poor analogy, since it shouldn't come as any great surprise that the GW2 economy is different to the real-world one. Inflation in the real world affects and is affected by the price of necessities - in GW2, pretty much anything you can regard as a necessity is price-controlled through means of acquiring equivalent gear independently of the player market (by things like the temple exotics, laurel vendors, and so on) if it isn't imposed from on high by ArenaNet in the first place (waypoint costs, armour repair, training manuals that can eat up the lion's share of what a character has earned up to that point). If anything, the price of ectoplasm - and, by extension, anything crafted with ectoplasm unless it requires something even rarer - has dropped since I've started playing.

The only things where inflation can come into play is in the gem price (and you'd need to be seriously idealistic to think ArenaNet is ever going to discourage inflation in that area) and the purely aesthetic top-end weapons that are the mark of people who've truly 'made it'.

Now, let's look at who waypoint fees and armour repair costs really affect. It's certainly not the people who've popped up in some of these discussions saying that a few silver here and there are insignificant because they earn X gold/hour - because those people are entirely correct when it comes to the influence of these so-called 'gold sinks' on them. On top of that, I've heard it said that true wealth does not come from traveling and risking your life (and armour) at all, but from playing the market - I don't know the truth of it myself, but a fortune made through shrewd trading is certainly not one that's been hindered by armour repair or waypoint costs except in the most indirect of manners. So who does get hurt? It's those newer, more casual players, for whom most of their deaths are from unforced errors (to borrow a tennis term) and who might not have the time to run through zones, park leveled alts in different zones, and otherwise avoid waypoint costs. In other words, the people hurt most by them are the very people that gold sinks are supposed to protect - they serve as a regressive tax keeping the poorer players (in terms of wealth, time and/or skill) down while doing little to hinder the hardcore farmers and powertraders from building ever greater masses of virtual wealth to throw at the few items on the market that do remain uncontrolled by fixed-price alternatives.

Edited by draxynnic, 05 March 2013 - 09:13 AM.

[Magi]

Ritualist, on 04 March 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

Remove repair fees, remove waypoint fees, reduce the price of cultural sets, ...
It's absolutely fantastic that you do not feel the need to be rewarded (well), but the game is designed to promote gathering of currencies: rewards matter. And people are just playing it that way..

It bothers me that the "casuals" are claiming that the waypoint and repair fees are prohibitive. I don't think that's quite a casual, but a super-casual, or perhaps a lazy player. I'm a casual and yet I have 4 sets of T3 cultural armor and waypoint/repair fees are beyond insignificant for me. My play time is restricted to 1-3 hours a night during the week and 4-5 on the weekend, school work allowing. Waypoint fees getting too expensive? Run one single dungeon path and you have enough money for 20-40 teleports, assuming you make no money in the place you teleport. Repair costs getting to exorbitant? Dodge better. This is honestly an L2P issue. The only mechanic in the entire game that is unavoidable is the Jade Maw's agony. Beside that, if you're dying you screwed up. You want T3 gear to be cheap? Forgive me, but I believe that some of the nicest skins in the game deserve to be worked towards. Instant gratification only serves to worsen the situation.

@Draxynnic:

I agree with absolutely everything you said. Too often, gold traders purposefully manipulate entire markets in order to turn a larger profit. All you have to do is go and look at the trading history for precursors to see it. I remember one week in particular where the price of The Hunter, The Legend, and The Lover all spiked by 100g or so individually. Often this spike occurred over the course of an hour. The lodestone market is another area that is often played with. Charged Lodestones being used for some of the more popular, and quite frankly nicer, skins leads to unwarranted price jumps every so often. I personally find it absurd that ANet hasn't placed a trade cap or something similar on purchases, so as to hinder artificial inflation. They want to simulate a real-life economy, and yet fail to implement the simplest of anti-manipulation measures.

[Ritualist]

Arewn, on 04 March 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

Missing the point,
Upkeep costs aside, I'm willing to do content for it's entertainement value, not because it's a job and I require payement and a point for point raises when difficulty changes. Of course rewards matter.

And I told you - you are playing the game wrong.

Magi, on 05 March 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:

My play time is restricted to 1-3 hours a night during the week and 4-5 on the weekend, school work allowing.

That's not casual.
(Of course, even the most casual players will be able to afford the listed fees, but as I said, the point is that the game promotes the gathering of currencies. Thus the argument that players can just play for "fun" is quite irrelevant.)

[AKGeo]

Ritualist, on 05 March 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

And I told you - you are playing the game wrong.




That's not casual.
(Of course, even the most casual players will be able to afford the listed fees, but as I said, the point is that the game promotes the gathering of currencies. Thus the argument that players can just play for "fun" is quite irrelevant.)

Who are you to tell someone they're playing the game wrong if they feel in their mind that rewards should be on par with effort? Why play a game if not to get rewarded for your time investment? He never said that Anet needs to send him a check...they just need to increase the reward for an event if they increase the effort required to complete the event. This isn't an isolated mindset.

If there was an event out there that was a guaranteed instant-dead while directly removing one random item from your inventory, but the rewards were no different than any other DE out there, do you think anyone would do it? No. Fun as the rest of the encounter may be, it's just ridiculous to throw away your coin on repairs and risk the loss of a cherished item for anything but a known high chance at a precursor weapon or something else of significant in-game value.

And since when are you the authority on the definition of "casual"? Seriously? One could argue that someone can play 6 hours a day in a lackadaisical style and still be more casual than someone who plays 1  hour a day and grinds CoF path 1 the whole time. It's all about how much you value the time you put into the game and how busy you keep yourself in that time. Me...I'm currently unemployed so I spend a SIGNIFICANT amount of time in-game. But I spend half of that sitting in LA chatting it up with guildies or on map chat. When I am actually playing the game, I do a dungeon here or there, or a couple levels of fractals for the dailies on my two fractal characters. I consider that a casual playstyle even though it's not a casual timeframe.

Edited by AKGeo, 05 March 2013 - 08:38 PM.

[heatrr]

As constructive or non-constructive as this may be: Some people will simply cry over anything and everything. There, I said it, I feel better for telling the truth.....