146 replies to this topic

[Omedon]

One of my few sources of total GW2 morale deflation comes from knowing that my personal story, all mine, and soloable for 99% of it, not my neighbor's problem, ends in a 5-man instance.

I respect the GW2 5-man ethic, just look at my post history.  I'm the most adamant non-dungeon runner who thinks dungeons in THIS game should stay as they are, no trinity, no automatic dungeon finder.  

And that same vehemence, which I maintain, locks me out of the end of my personal story.  It feels like a mild betrayal that my stance is simultaneously "yay! Personal story for players to solo and enjoy on their own and not burden others with their learning-ness" and "yay challenging 5-mans, for established groups that will communicate to overcome challenges if they want to succeed!"

I was just wondering, how common is this "stuck at the dungeon" state?  One of the few places where I don't support ArenaNet in their decisions is this mixing of solo and group-mandatory content.

I was reminded of this issue today when I saw a screenshot posted by a member of my guild (and before you say "run the instance with the guild"... most of us have the same "GW2 dungeons are respectfully not for me/us" stance as I do) where his personal story was in the corner of the screen and, sure enough, paused at the dungeon point... where it will probably stay for good, just like mine.  It makes me not even bother running the story on my other characters, and subsequently not even log on as much.

Am I alone in this problem?  No I'm not looking for help, trust me, you don't want to run a dungeon with me hehe.

Edited by Omedon, 10 March 2013 - 05:57 PM.

[AKGeo]

And someone who said specifically that they have not been in a 5-man instance at all, how would you know what the environment is?

Plenty of ways to mess up without killing the team. Plenty of ways to come back from messing up and killing much of the team and complete the content.

And I'm sorry, but running everything perfectly without error is simply not fun. At least to me. But you're easily missing out on half the game, and 90% of the post-80 content. But if that's your choice, so be it. I just think you've got your priorities a little screwed up.

[Trei]

Why do you consider yourself to be a burden in dungeons?

Why do you feel dungeon group content is not for you?

[Draino]

Many guilds don't adhere to a "dontmessup" fake rule. In instances, everyone messes up, sometimes. Actually, solo PvE ethics about being down or dying have no relevance in dungeons; everybody goes down sometimes. You won't shame yourself, you'll do fine. Just find a good group on your server and enter a whole new world of fun. You paid for it, and you deserve to experience the fun of it. And the new friends you will make.

[FoxBat]

If the 5-man in question was something people regularly did, it might be fine. The fact that it's a story mode people do once per character and never again, as the repeatable reward is nil, is significantly more inconvenient.

[Omedon]

FoxBat, on 10 March 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

If the 5-man in question was something people regularly did, it might be fine. The fact that it's a story mode people do once per character and never again, as the repeatable reward is nil, is significantly more inconvenient.

That's a big part of it.

Trei, on 10 March 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

Why do you consider yourself to be a burden in dungeons?

Why do you feel dungeon group content is not for you?

It's a lot of "MMO culture" habit and training, but I'm just too strongly part of the oldschool "don't impose on your neighbor" mindset, and there's no way to avoid imposition in a trinity-less, skill based dungeon model, particularly PUGing, so I stay out.

Draino, on 10 March 2013 - 04:53 AM, said:

You paid for it, and you deserve to experience the fun of it.

While I appreciate the upbeat and positive sentiment, I'm also a huge believer that buying an MMO doesn't buy you the time of the community, and we are each individually responsible for getting what we will out of the experience, our neighbors not being responsible to validate our purchase.  It's actually a huge part of why I love GW2... except in this one instance, (pardon the pun) where it fails.  But again, I appreciate the thought.

Edited by Omedon, 10 March 2013 - 06:02 AM.

[matsif]

I'm not stuck at it because on my character that I actually did the awful story on, I ran it with my guild.  Most of my chars haven't passed level 31 quest or so because I just wanted access to order armors/weapons for some of them and used PS up to that point to level.

But overall I agree, it's pretty dumb that for my personal story I had to do it with 4 other people.

[Blorg]

http://gw2lfg.com/

No need to beg the guild to help. I would have quitted the game months ago if it weren't for that online dungeon seeker. My OCD's are very thankful for its existence, i've finished the stories on all my chars and done every story mode instance at appropriate levels. It wouldn't have been possible even after hours of shouting in LA on my home server. Also, the players using it are above average in mind and skillset, without being elitists, atleast on the EU side.

I'm not sure after reading everything here what your problem for instances really is, sounds like you doubt your own performance. Read/watch a guide or just tell the party it's your first time there, most are okey with that. Arah story dungeon is meant to be the grand finale and then you need real people to share it with imo, even if the end result is mostly cut scenes anyway.

[Bryant Again]

I got pretty lucky when I helped capture Arah and a group was looking for people to do the story mission.

And yeah no, it doesn't make a lot of sense to end it as such because it's flat out inconsistent in design.

Edited by Bryant Again, 10 March 2013 - 08:07 AM.

[MisterB]

From a storytelling point of view, it's bad design. All of a sudden there are 5 supreme commanders of the Pact. We already gave up the position of the hero of the story to Mr. Twiggy, but now all of a sudden there are 4 other supreme leaders who have never existed prior to the climactic battle.

I still have that last chapter left to do too, on multiple characters now.

Edited by MisterB, 10 March 2013 - 08:09 AM.

[Robsy128]

It's bad, but then again, it's following the dungeon story modes. Dungeon story modes aren't for the organised or very good. They're not exactly hard to complete (aside from TA ). They shouldn't have put Zhaitan in a dungeon. They also shouldn't have made the last final boss be beaten by pathetic little guns. They've been on and on about him for ages and all it takes is a maximum of 8 canons to kill him? Er... something isn't right there

[Elcee]

Probably not many, the story was so awful that I don't think many people got that far

P.S. f*k Traherne

[dannywolt]

Omedon, on 10 March 2013 - 04:07 AM, said:

One of my few sources of total GW2 morale deflation comes from knowing that my personal story, all mine, and soloable for 99% of it, not my neighbor's problem, ends in a 5-man instance.

I respect the GW2 5-man ethic, just look at my post history.  I'm the most adamant non-dungeon runner who thinks dungeons in THIS game should stay as they are, no trinity, no automatic dungeon finder.  

And that same vehemence, which I maintain, locks me out of the end of my personal story.  It feels like a mild betrayal that my stance is simultaneously "yay! Personal story for players to solo and enjoy on their own and not burden others with their learning-ness" and "yay challenging 5-mans, for established groups that will communicate to overcome challenges if they want to succeed!"

I was just wondering, how common is this "stuck at the dungeon" state?  One of the few places where I don't support ArenaNet in their decisions is this mixing of solo and group-mandatory content.

I was reminded of this issue today when I saw a screenshot posted by a member of my guild (and before you say "run the instance with the guild"... most of us have the same "GW2 dungeons are respectfully not for me/us" stance as I do) where his personal story was in the corner of the screen and, sure enough, paused at the dungeon point... where it will probably stay for good, just like mine.  Its makes me not even bother running the story on my other characters, and subsequently not even log on as much.

Am I alone in this problem?  No I'm not looking for help, trust me, you don't want to run a dungeon with me hehe.

I used to be a non-dungeon player too. Everything you said sounds familiar. I thought I would never want to do a dungeon and dreaded the final step in the story. But I really wanted Twilight so I forced myself into AC, and loved it. Now I spend 90% of my GW2 playtime in dungeons. I would recommend experiencing an easy dungeon once or twice. If you still don't like them, that's fine. But looking back now I would really regret it if I had never given it a try.

From a logical standpoint, I agree that requiring a dungeon feels out of place; but it might also feel a little empty and insignificant killing Zhaitan alone.

Robsy128, on 10 March 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

They also shouldn't have made the last final boss be beaten by pathetic little guns. They've been on and on about him for ages and all it takes is a maximum of 8 canons to kill him? Er... something isn't right there

I agreed with this sentiment until I realized that by the final fight Zhaitan is essentially blind, starving, and homeless. If you consider the entire campaign in Orr as the fight with Zhaitan, it doesn't seem quite as bad.

[Nilerax]

I think I am one of the few who is disappointed about the final PS step.

I did almost everything on my own in my PS... Until I figured that to kill Zhaitan I had to team up with 4 others to complete -My- Personal story, where most people would just want to skip any cinematics and I feel like being rushed through my own story...

Just a shame.

[beadnbutter32]

I don't have any bias against dungeons or grouping, be it pugs or guildies or 'friends'.  What I do have issue with is

The final episode is gated, Arah cannot be entered unless it is uncontested.
Unless your an elite group of repeaters, it is going to take hours of time to complete.
We have all seen the cut scenes by now anyway.
There is no appreciable reward to look forward to.

So unless you are going for a legendary, for many of us it's a case of way more of a time investment than most of us are willing to make given the paltry rewards.

[Faowri]

beadnbutter32, on 10 March 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

The final episode is gated, Arah cannot be entered unless it is uncontested.
Unless your an elite group of repeaters, it is going to take hours of time to complete.

These two are a big issue. To play with an organised group often involves a certain amount of scheduling in advance (because my guild has a fairly big complement of people who do not play every day, and when they do they don't necessarily play for hours at a time because they have jobs and school and babies and partners to consider). It's always hard to do this when getting Arah uncontested isn't the simplest endeavour and you can't predict when it will be open.

I don't have a problem with dungeon content, although it's not something I do that often purely because it's such a pain in the ass to organise a group/manage access. I do find it frustrating that your personal story goes the whole game being instanced and solo-able and having zero impact on the persistent maps (or vice versa), then all of a sudden is a group event and dependent on the situation in the persistent map at the very last hurdle. It's inconsistent and has led to lots of people being stalled there for some time, I imagine, even if they eventually get it done.

Edited by Faowri, 10 March 2013 - 12:59 PM.

[rukia]

Grouping in an MMO!? *gasp*

Doesn't bother me, but I will admit it's pretty dumb and inconsistent how you suddenly need a group for the last mission. I did it in like.. 30min? Didn't seem that long, and it's insanely easy.

GW2lfg.com if you don't use a guild.

[El Duderino]

Once I got to 80 I stopped bothering with my personal story. It bored me to tears. So, I never even got to the part you mentioned.

[Sandpit]

Personal story

Not group story. The clue is in the title. Having played the whole story through solo, as designed. The sudden requirement for a 5 person dungeon is just plain stupid.

I too have never done the final. Initially because of wtf now I need 4 others!!! but then because I watched a youtube vid of that dungeon, after that I have absolutely zero intention of bothering. I hated (and I really mean hated in it's most violent context) the whole Orr design and story line, and then it ends with one of the lamest game design lows of any game all-time. Rushed, lazy, stupid anti-climax. ANet's worst moment by far.

The need to redesign that last stoy, lose the dungeon, make it solo, and let us fight the goddamned dragon rather that that bs.

[Menehune]

Omedon, on 10 March 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:

That's a big part of it.



It's a lot of "MMO culture" habit and training, but I'm just too strongly part of the oldschool "don't impose on your neighbor" mindset, and there's no way to avoid imposition in a trinity-less, skill based dungeon model, particularly PUGing, so I stay out.



While I appreciate the upbeat and positive sentiment, I'm also a huge believer that buying an MMO doesn't buy you the time of the community, and we are each individually responsible for getting what we will out of the experience, our neighbors not being responsible to validate our purchase.  It's actually a huge part of why I love GW2... except in this one instance, (pardon the pun) where it fails.  But again, I appreciate the thought.

That's also a big part of it for me, but an even bigger part is being dependable. Can a group depend on me being there through to completion? Unfortunately, the answer is no. I can't say with any degree of certainty that in any given span of time that I won't have to go AFK on short or no notice. Yes, there are times when I can play uninterrupted for 3 or 4 hours, but those times are rare and I never know in advance. On average, (damn RNG IRL ) I'm AFK 10%-15% of the time I'm logged in during about 2 interruptions per hour. Yes, there are many others in similar situations and would understand if I have to leave suddenly, but I get bent all out of shape if I have to leave in the middle of a big fight. I've had to quickly run to a "safe" place in the middle of big events and a couple of times didn't even have time for that and came back to a dead character.

I hate and do everything I can to avoid making commitments that I can't keep, and joining a party implies certain, usually unspoken, commitments like being there when they need me. I guess that's a reason why I sympathize with Logan Thackeray. It's rough being torn between 2 commitments.

[Menehune]

rukia, on 10 March 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Grouping in an MMO!? *gasp*

...

MMO = Massively Multiplayer Online just means many online playing concurrently. There is no law of nature that says you must be in a group to play MMOGs. While probably just about all MMOGs have varying levels of support for grouping, they also have some amount of soloable content tendency rising. See LoTRO for an example. a while back they introduced items that gave players a buff so they can play small fellowship instances solo.

Playing solo also doesn't mean that one is antisocial. I think AreneNet's ad hoc grouping without formal partying is great. People can play cooperatively in the persistent world without any commitments that joining a party would entail.

[Gli]

I've done the terrible Arah storymode on 1 character, 4 other level 80s are stuck on the "Kill Zhaitan" step of the personal story, and will remain there until the dungeon is somehow refurbished to be a bit more interesting.

Arah storymode is the worst content I've played on GW2. From the hordes of monsters that don't give xp and loot and also don't trigger 'on kill' sigils and thus invalidate my equipment, to the boring, minutes-long stretches of nothing happening at all on the airship, I can't stand the thought of going there again.

[NuclearDonut]

Omedon, on 10 March 2013 - 04:07 AM, said:

One of my few sources of total GW2 morale deflation comes from knowing that my personal story, all mine, and soloable for 99% of it, not my neighbor's problem, ends in a 5-man instance.

I respect the GW2 5-man ethic, just look at my post history.  I'm the most adamant non-dungeon runner who thinks dungeons in THIS game should stay as they are, no trinity, no automatic dungeon finder.  

And that same vehemence, which I maintain, locks me out of the end of my personal story.  It feels like a mild betrayal that my stance is simultaneously "yay! Personal story for players to solo and enjoy on their own and not burden others with their learning-ness" and "yay challenging 5-mans, for established groups that will communicate to overcome challenges if they want to succeed!"

I was just wondering, how common is this "stuck at the dungeon" state?  One of the few places where I don't support ArenaNet in their decisions is this mixing of solo and group-mandatory content.

I was reminded of this issue today when I saw a screenshot posted by a member of my guild (and before you say "run the instance with the guild"... most of us have the same "GW2 dungeons are respectfully not for me/us" stance as I do) where his personal story was in the corner of the screen and, sure enough, paused at the dungeon point... where it will probably stay for good, just like mine.  Its makes me not even bother running the story on my other characters, and subsequently not even log on as much.

Am I alone in this problem?  No I'm not looking for help, trust me, you don't want to run a dungeon with me hehe.

You're severely overestimating the difficulty of Arah. If you really don't have the self esteem to join a PUG and finish your story, then you can join me when I get my alt to that point in the story. I could get 3 guildies and we would do fine.

[Whispering Spirit]

I've got to agree with everything you've said, OP. I, too, will probably never finish any personal story because of it. I've never liked dungeons in any MMO. I hate it them. It's torture for me, personally. I shouldn't have to be forced into one aspect of the game, a part I do not like at all (games are for fun, after all), just to finish my personal story. So, it will sit there, and never be completed unless Anet changes this (which I doubt).

Menehune, on 10 March 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

MMO = Massively Multiplayer Online just means many online playing concurrently. There is no law of nature that says you must be in a group to play MMOGs. While probably just about all MMOGs have varying levels of support for grouping, they also have some amount of soloable content tendency rising. See LoTRO for an example. a while back they introduced items that gave players a buff so they can play small fellowship instances solo.

Playing solo also doesn't mean that one is antisocial. I think AreneNet's ad hoc grouping without formal partying is great. People can play cooperatively in the persistent world without any commitments that joining a party would entail.

Thank you for pointing this out to others.

Edited by Whispering Spirit, 10 March 2013 - 04:24 PM.

[Sans]

+5 trait points for completing your personal story.

That would be incentive for people to do it.

[ShezuTsukai]

Not doing the story mode of all of the dungeons in order before Arah really diminishes the overall story arc. Anet's original design for personal story included all of the dungeons. They bowed to pressure to remove the requirement except for Arah.

IMHO if you skip the dungeons you are missing out on a huge chunk of story or basically how Destiny's Edge gets back together. If all you want is to be done with story then you are right where you should be.

But teaming up not only with different player but also different DEdge personalities is not something someone who enjoys GW2 should overlook lightly.

[Gli]

ShezuTsukai, on 10 March 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

IMHO if you skip the dungeons you are missing out on a huge chunk of story or basically how Destiny's Edge gets back together. If all you want is to be done with story then you are right where you should be.

But teaming up not only with different player but also different DEdge personalities is not something someone who enjoys GW2 should overlook lightly.

Unfortunately, the Destiny's Edge reunion story that runs from dungeon to dungeon is absolute dreck.

"You bad!"

"No, you!"

"You no fight!"

"You dumb"

"Dragon bad!"

"Us fight dragon!"

Did I miss something?

[ShezuTsukai]

Yeah you missed the frail elements of unmet expectations, betrayed trust, lost mentor, and disallusioned friendship. But hey no shiny trinket of real value at the end so why bother.

[Osiris Neits]

I finished that instance on my main with 2 guild mates (took all day and quite a bit of patience lol) and will never do it again, not because of the instance, but because the personal story on all 7 of my alts is paused where Trahearne enters the story, and will most likely never be finished.

[El Duderino]

Sans, on 10 March 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

+5 trait points for completing your personal story.

That would be incentive for people to do it.

So, instead of actually making the story better to make people want to do it, it would turn into a grind to get trait points and still be boring?

No thank you.