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Ouch my Everything: The 80% (potential) Amplified Damage Build, with Sustain, Support, and Control!

elementalist dps sustain control lightning hammer pve dungeon

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#1 Kitsune

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 06:38 AM

Ouch my Everything

So fun fact, did you know that with minimal help from your group, an Elementalist can receive an unmatched 111% bonus to damage, likely becoming the single highest melee damage dealer in the game?

All while providing constant self and ally healing over time, Blast Finishers, enabling lower-damage throttled Rangers and Mesmers to soar like other professions, and by providing a meager amount of control, especially against non-champions?

Here is the breakdown folks!

How To Play the Build

Spoiler


Love Thy Neighbor: Rangers and Mesmers

Spoiler




The Stats

Loaded on Power, Moderate Crit Chance, Huge Crit Damage, Moderate Condition duration

Spoiler


The Traits


Spoiler


The Gear

Only Exotics!

Spoiler



The Damage Amplification

Department of Corrections: Actually, damage sources are likely multiplicative, so in an ideal situation you are looking at over 70% damage normally, and over 100% when foe is <33% health.

"+76.49% when bolt to the heart is NOT adding damage... 111.79% when it is." - AzureRogue

Spoiler


The Sustain:

318 heal per second, roughly.

Spoiler



The Support:

So, Ranger and Mesmer, you want real damage weapon like the other kids? Here ya' go, champ! Blast Finishers and Blinds gallor!

Spoiler


The Control:

Spoiler



The Conclusion

I woke up earlier this evening after reading a post before I went to sleep, and I've always been interested in stacking damage amplification, which is how this guide was born!

I have not been able to extensively test this guide in dungeon groups yet, but I honestly do believe that with the right external support, nothing else in the entire game will deal as much damage over a fight, period.

Ideally, for this build to be the highest damage in the game, all it requires is your allies to maintain at least 1 stack of vulnerability, burning on the foe, while providing your 25 might stacks and fury. This SOUNDS like a heavy order, until you realize that several professions stack vulnerability on their auto-attacks, burning is highly common, and warriors / rangers are amazing Fury givers. AND you are supplying the Blast finishers, so if others supply a modest amount of Fire Fields, you are set.

Please test it out (with greens / yellows if you cant afford the full combination for gear) and let me know what you guys think!


PS:

Someone else did the math, ignoring self-might stacking, a Warrior's Axe is their highest damage per second option, while the Elementalist's Hammer does ever-so-slightly more damage in a given time frame. Couple that with all the damage multipliers from the Ele's traits, and they should pull out even further ahead in even a semi-coordinated group environment!

Edited by Kitsune, 06 April 2013 - 09:26 AM.

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#2 Caffynated

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:08 AM

I would rather go 25 in air instead of 10 in earth. You can apply vulnerability with weak spot, and the preci/crit damage is a bigger damage boost than stone splinters.

I like this build. Thanks for posting. I tested it out in the mists against a light golem. 7k crit on auto #3 with just 58% crit damage and no might.

Edited by Caffynated, 22 March 2013 - 07:28 AM.

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#3 Kitsune

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:27 AM

I would rather go 25 in air instead of 10 in earth. You can apply vulnerability with weak spot, and the preci/crit damage is a bigger damage boost than stone splinters.

I like this build. Thanks for posting. I tested it out in the mists against a light golem. 7k crit on auto #3 with just 58% crit damage and no might.


Someone in the gw2 official ele forms recomended that I take the 10 points from earth and go 25 water, 20 air.

The difference between 25 air and 20 water would be more crit chance and crit damage and vulnerability, but at the loss of significant damage-amping potential from the 2% per boon in water, along with less health and healing.

I'd imagine 20air/25water would be better for group combat in which others could supply the vulnerability and will likely be packing boons.
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#4 Relentless Raven

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:08 PM

Coming from a D/D background, this build interests me greatly. Have you tested it in fractals? What level?
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#5 AzureRogue

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:11 PM

I think it would be worthwhile, actually, since you'd basically guarantee yourself the +20% from piercing shards (in a 5 man dungeon group - vulnerability is NOT a guaranteed condition even if it should be). If you're running ONLY with organized groups that know your build you could probably skip it - otherwise I think 25 air is a wise investment.

If you REALLY love 25 water (and think you'll have boons up a lot) drop 5 fire and do 20 fire, 25 air, 25 water - losing 5% against burning foes might be worth it if you plan to have 3 or more boons up all the time. Also, evidence seems to point to damage bonuses being multiplicative rather than additive... that puts you at potentially +76.49% when bolt to the heart is NOT adding damage... 111.79% when it is.

I played with this build in the mists (without air 25 - but using water 2 before picking up the hammer - just to see damage) and thought it seemed pretty awesome. Then I ran with it in WvW for a bit and was hitting 5-7k auto attack crits on other players. Crazy damage for just hitting one and running around :D
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#6 Loperdos

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 04:15 PM

Forgive my lack of depth of knowledge with an Ele (only recently picked my Ele back up after a hiatus from it for the last 5 months) but which utilities and healing skill are you using for this build? Perhaps I missed it in the description...obviously Lightning Hammer is your main utility, but beyond that?
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#7 Relentless Raven

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 05:41 PM

Not a silly question, the utilities weren't exactly spelled out beyond Hammer Time. Personal preference or are there skills that have good synnergy with this?
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#8 Kitsune

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 04:34 AM

Sorry guys!

I knew i forgot something in the build.


The only semi-required utility is Signet of Fire for the additional crit chance. This build lacks raw crit chance, unless you go full berserker in your accessories, so the passive crit synergizes quite well.


That leaves one slot open for virtually anything that tickles your fancy. I prefer Arcane Wave as my default for an additional blast finisher and burst combo for clearing trashy adds swiftly, and for its plethora of uses with Staff.


And yes, someone pointed out on the official forum that the damage components are likely multiplicative, explaining the crazy damage this build can put out.

I've been testing it in Arah, and outside of the lupus fight (pugs cant melee this well) it works exceptionally well, but is susceptible to big spikes obviously.


Glad you guys are enjoying it. With Fiery GS as your elite, you should have no issues chasing people down in WvW with this build :D possibly subbing in Signet of Air for the third utility.
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#9 AzureRogue

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 07:07 AM

I played this in a few CoF runs earlier (not a real test, I know, but fun!) and it went so smoothly I almost had a hard time believing it. I was hitting >7k on the 3rd auto attack on the slave driver and trash mobs. Don't remember hitting above 6k on the effigy, but it's possibly I just missed it. I really like the build and think it's a lot of fun... though I probably will continue to run D/D instead because I don't like conjured weapons (and the need to recast/pick up over and over).

Cheers and thanks for the build though.
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#10 beadnbutter32

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 12:26 PM

A very nice detailed breakdown, the only thing it lacks, how to do with the one thing that distinguishes Eles from other classes. You only mention using the Staff weapon but don't tell us which attunements and skills you use most often to get the most use out of this build.

Bear with me, not everyone is a Ele ninja, many of us are either new Eles or have mains in other classes and our Ele is a 'learning' experience.
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#11 FoxBat

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 01:34 PM

A very nice detailed breakdown, the only thing it lacks, how to do with the one thing that distinguishes Eles from other classes. You only mention using the Staff weapon but don't tell us which attunements and skills you use most often to get the most use out of this build.


Not organized well but it's there. The basic idea is to use lightning hammer the majority of the time with the extra conjure traits and picking up your spare once the first one runs dry. You stick in water attunement during this times for the passive benefits. You can rotate through the water skills if needed in between hammers or to save someone's skin.

Edited by FoxBat, 24 March 2013 - 01:35 PM.

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#12 jthamind

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:47 PM

i think i might try this out just for fun. i don't have the exact gear (knight instead of berserker, but mostly zerker trinkets), but i'm built for good damage overall, so it should be interesting.
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#13 Kitsune

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 11:48 PM

Not organized well but it's there. The basic idea is to use lightning hammer the majority of the time with the extra conjure traits and picking up your spare once the first one runs dry. You stick in water attunement during this times for the passive benefits. You can rotate through the water skills if needed in between hammers or to save someone's skin.


Updated the guide to hopefully make it more clear, in the How to Play It section.

Forthcoming will be data on Ranger's and Mesmer's damage values on their own weapons vs when they wield the Lightning hammer.

The data has been added, the general damage I dealt to red slimes in cursed shore as well as the tool tips for Ranger and Mesmer's Sword and GS.

Long story short, its well more than twice as much damage.

Edited by Kitsune, 25 March 2013 - 01:58 AM.

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#14 Kitsune

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 05:05 AM

Coming from a D/D background, this build interests me greatly. Have you tested it in fractals? What level?


It isnt fractal tested because I'm not really super into fractals yet, im only like level 8 or something :D

I'd imagine it would TOTALLY depend on your group though, for a PUG i can't imagine it working nearly as well as a more "independent" build that stacks might.
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#15 Kitsune

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 08:39 PM

As an update, I was finally able to run this build in a coordinated, solid Arah group last night.


It was probably one of the most satisfying experiences ever in GW2 of any build I've ever made.

It was a two mesmer, two guardian, and me as the elementalist group. Both guardians we're passing out might to hit 25 might at the start of each fight, and the group's vulnerability would be up most of the time around 2 to 10 stacks consistently, two time warps for bigger fights, and guardian's and staff mesmer's autos made burning 100% almost always.

With my regeneration going constantly, self healing from Signet, swapping to water staff in a pinch, it worked well to keep me up, and I ended up face tanking / dodging while being focused for the entirety of the dungeon, except on silly Lupus who had a mancrush on me in phase 2 and 3. I took literally all of the drain-channels and most of the Lupine bolts :(

Damage wise, in the best case scenario, i would see 7 to 8k swings on the first two Hammer autos, then 11 to 12k (saw a 13K once at least) on the third hit. When the time warps hit, it was absolutely devastating to watch. If we had coordinated might, vulnerability, and time warp stacking a bit better it would have been even more impressive, but it was still really good.

Only time I had issues living was against Lupis, since the group didnt want to melee him, and he decided to focus me constantly :D
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#16 Xslare

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 03:32 AM

Has this build been tried in WvW or sPvP? I'm curious to see how it deals with toughness/healing tanks; maybe even the guardian supertank build, or the mesmer mantra cannon.

Seems awesome for PvE, and I really want to give it a try; just worried that it falls off too much in PvP.
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#17 Kitsune

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:15 AM

Has this build been tried in WvW or sPvP? I'm curious to see how it deals with toughness/healing tanks; maybe even the guardian supertank build, or the mesmer mantra cannon.

Seems awesome for PvE, and I really want to give it a try; just worried that it falls off too much in PvP.


Definitely not intended for PvP, though it would do well in WvW I'd wager.

You don't have the crit chance to make this as awesome in PvP, so PvE/WvW all the way!

PVP players will avoid just being autoattacked down, and you will need better defensive utilities.
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#18 Raif89

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:29 AM

This seems like it would work very well in open world PVE, pretty good in dungeons if your good at keeping yourself on your toes or have some good group support, as shown by the posts above.

WvW however, seems like a signing a death warrant. I wouldn't want to be in WvW with such low health/armor with all the conditions/damage that you can run into, you would probably be torn to shreds from all the conditions due to no health or spiked down due to the lowish armor and low health together. You run into some major issues there. For WvW it would be better to tone down the crit damage maybe and trade it for some toughness/vitality gear because you would be torn apart. You would be in melee range and on the front lines, you NEED armor and a health pool to live. And if you like to roam, you would be in even bigger trouble. I roam with 2.5k armor and sometimes I feel its not enough.

Hell, I could probably fire grab you for 8k with that kind of armor level, or CE you for 10-12K.

Great build though, and lots of fun. But I would only use it in PVE, not in WvW.

Edited by Raif89, 26 March 2013 - 11:35 AM.

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#19 beadnbutter32

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:03 PM

I think I seen now, with the additions, how this works (use the conjured hammer dummy!) and will be trying this out with my Ele which has been laying fallow since it hit 80.

Thanks again.
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#20 Kitsune

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 04:43 PM

This seems like it would work very well in open world PVE, pretty good in dungeons if your good at keeping yourself on your toes or have some good group support, as shown by the posts above.

WvW however, seems like a signing a death warrant. I wouldn't want to be in WvW with such low health/armor with all the conditions/damage that you can run into, you would probably be torn to shreds from all the conditions due to no health or spiked down due to the lowish armor and low health together. You run into some major issues there. For WvW it would be better to tone down the crit damage maybe and trade it for some toughness/vitality gear because you would be torn apart. You would be in melee range and on the front lines, you NEED armor and a health pool to live. And if you like to roam, you would be in even bigger trouble. I roam with 2.5k armor and sometimes I feel its not enough.

Hell, I could probably fire grab you for 8k with that kind of armor level, or CE you for 10-12K.

Great build though, and lots of fun. But I would only use it in PVE, not in WvW.


In WvW you'd likely have to make better use of:

Your "normal" weapon set.

Fiery Greatsword.

Conjure Lightning only when sustained melee is possible.

Probably Earth Signet for Immobilize and Earth: GoStorms for the constant aoe blind.


In a sustained melee fight, this build would wreck most other build due to the constant blind and healing, but against someone like a Thief / Dagger Ele, the lightning hammer would likely underperform, but thats where the aoe blinding from Sandstorm is handy, followed by immobilize + lightning hammer spam for at least one combo comes into play, or going staff and tossing down some "dont stand near me"-ness.

But yea, certainly this is a general pve, and most specifically Dungeon, build. :)
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#21 Raagar Deathclaw

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:34 PM

I'm thinking of starting an ele and this build really sounds like fun and i'll probably try it once I hit 80, maybe before. One thing I noticed was that you classed mesmers as a "low damage" class. I don't mean to nit pick but I hit for 2-3k with greatsword crits and as high as 5k with MH sword and recently got the tier 7 master of overkill achievement with mind wrack so I wouldn't classify mesmers as low damage
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#22 Raif89

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:25 PM

In WvW you'd likely have to make better use of:

Your "normal" weapon set.

Fiery Greatsword.

Conjure Lightning only when sustained melee is possible.

Probably Earth Signet for Immobilize and Earth: GoStorms for the constant aoe blind.


In a sustained melee fight, this build would wreck most other build due to the constant blind and healing, but against someone like a Thief / Dagger Ele, the lightning hammer would likely underperform, but thats where the aoe blinding from Sandstorm is handy, followed by immobilize + lightning hammer spam for at least one combo comes into play, or going staff and tossing down some "dont stand near me"-ness.

But yea, certainly this is a general pve, and most specifically Dungeon, build. :)


Even with the blinds, necros spam so many conditions that it would make it through and eat a lot of your health and the low armor means that in large group fights, all it would take would be 1 or 2 hits and your gone.

But as a PVE spec, this could be the "melee" dps spec people might want... Though again, less room for error due to low health/armor, but viable in the hands of a good group comp/player.
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#23 Kitsune

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:05 PM

I'm thinking of starting an ele and this build really sounds like fun and i'll probably try it once I hit 80, maybe before. One thing I noticed was that you classed mesmers as a "low damage" class. I don't mean to nit pick but I hit for 2-3k with greatsword crits and as high as 5k with MH sword and recently got the tier 7 master of overkill achievement with mind wrack so I wouldn't classify mesmers as low damage


And those numbers, while they seem impressive from a mesmer standpoint, are sadly quite trashy compared to alternatives from other professions.

The main issue is the actual auto-attack and consistent non-phantasm attack damage skills are quite bad compared across-professions. This is because their phantasms can provide **considerable** additional damage over time if they live long enough. Nothing in the game, by default, is higher damage than three Illusionary Warlocks constantly hitting while alive and the mesmer is contributing additional damage through other attacks.

So with the Conjured Lightning Hammer, you "ignore" that balancing mechanic by giving a profession with traditionally "poor" personal damage from auto-attacks / low recharge
normal attacks (ie Mesmer/Ranger) the "best" auto-attacking weapon in the game.
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#24 Raagar Deathclaw

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:23 PM

~snip~


If you're only talking about a phantasm mesmer then yes overall damage is poor because of the phantasm's low attack speed, but a shatter mes isn't getting most of their damage from phantasm's because they shatter every 2-3 seconds for some of the best burst damage out there
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#25 Kitsune

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:32 AM

If you're only talking about a phantasm mesmer then yes overall damage is poor because of the phantasm's low attack speed, but a shatter mes isn't getting most of their damage from phantasm's because they shatter every 2-3 seconds for some of the best burst damage out there


Its good AOE damage burst for sure, but I wouldn't count that necessarily as consistent dps, which is generally what is preferable for PvE content. A Phantasm damage mesmser will still clock in more total damage than a Shatter-burst spec in ideal scenario in which at least 2 phantasms are up consistently.

Combine a Phantasm mesmer with good phantasm placement for longevity + a Conjured Lightning Hammer, and you are probably looking at the highest potential sustained damage, until the hammer runs out.


You are wrong about the slow attack speed of the phantasm cripple the builds potential. If you have Warlocks poping 12k+ easily or more every 4.13 seconds when traited, thats over 3k sustained DPS (provided the target isnt hopping all over the place causing them to miss) without considering the mesmer's contributions.

I'd be quite impressed if Shatter Mesmers can sustain that level of DPS.

Edited by Kitsune, 27 March 2013 - 08:36 AM.

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#26 dennots

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 06:55 PM

With all due respect Kitsune, I think your post is great and the build is really nice, but the mesmer/ranger talk deviates from the topic. TBH if I ever see (as a mesmer) a elementalist drop a hammer I would pick it once for novelty but I couldn't care less about it's damage, since it hinders my survival and overall the whole class mechanics to be using any non mesmer weapon.
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#27 Raagar Deathclaw

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:45 PM

Its good AOE damage burst for sure, but I wouldn't count that necessarily as consistent dps, which is generally what is preferable for PvE content. A Phantasm damage mesmser will still clock in more total damage than a Shatter-burst spec in ideal scenario in which at least 2 phantasms are up consistently.

Combine a Phantasm mesmer with good phantasm placement for longevity + a Conjured Lightning Hammer, and you are probably looking at the highest potential sustained damage, until the hammer runs out.


You are wrong about the slow attack speed of the phantasm cripple the builds potential. If you have Warlocks poping 12k+ easily or more every 4.13 seconds when traited, thats over 3k sustained DPS (provided the target isnt hopping all over the place causing them to miss) without considering the mesmer's contributions.

I'd be quite impressed if Shatter Mesmers can sustain that level of DPS.


Ok I agree with dennots post above I would just like to say that my GS auto attack hits for 3k dps easily plus i'm popping clones every 2-3 seconds for even more dps =)
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#28 Xslare

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:50 AM

Ok I agree with dennots post above I would just like to say that my GS auto attack hits for 3k dps easily plus i'm popping clones every 2-3 seconds for even more dps =)


And I've seen a glass cannon warrior crit for 14k once every 5 seconds or so.

Your argument is invalid, as you consider 3k dps high. Hell, my burn condition Ele pumps out about 1.2k burn dps a second; and that's ignoring my spamming of nukes that average about 3k-6k a pop.

On average, Mesmer has terrible burst damage sustained DPS; this is just something that comes with the profession really.

Edit: I am illiterate, and word choice makes me feel dumb.

Edited by Xslare, 28 March 2013 - 03:30 AM.

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#29 AzureRogue

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 02:46 AM

Xslare - what? Mesmer has amazing BURST damage. What people are debating is their sustained DPS (which I have no knowledge of).
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#30 Xslare

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 03:28 AM

Shush; there is no debate on whether or not I am literate. In any case, thanks for pointing that failure of words out; going to go cry in a corner now.
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