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Is magic find useful?


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#1 Solawing

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:41 AM

According to wiki, "Magic find is applied when a foe dies; it does not apply to loot from chests, items created in the Mystic Forge,or random drops from gathering." And I think it may not apply to salvaging or any other random things, too.
So... it may be useful on world map, as the main incoming there is from killing loot. But what about other places? Killing loot may be part of the incoming in dungeons or Fotms, but it is very limited compared with chests. I haven't played long enough to summarize how much part does magic find really affects, so I am wondering whether I shall have an MF set or not if I do not do intentional item farming on world map?

#2 Vysander

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:43 PM

The earlier you get a magic find set the more your ROI will be.

I would highly recommend investing in a 80 exotic magic find set as early as possible.

Unless you're doing CoF speedruns, or something else where you're skipping damn near every mob, magic find will be very useful (though, not always usable, depending on class and/or instance).

It will always be good for open world PvE, it will be good for fractals (below lvl 20 imo, again though, depends on skill and party composition).

#3 Thaddeuz

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 04:51 PM

The MF give you more change to get a item of better rarity.  In reality it give you more change to get a blue over a white, a green over a blue, a yellow over a green and a exoritc over a yellow.

There are several idea you can pull out of this.

1) The item you drop the most are Blue and Green, so the MF will help you best to find more Green and Yellow.
2) It will help you get more exotic, but at a percentage so little that you won't notice it. Think about it, we don't drop that much yellow to begin with so this won't gonna give you that much exotic. Still 1 more exotic its about 1 to 100 gold in your pocket so even 1 more exotic is worth it.
3) Like for the exotic, the MF won't gonna help you that much with Blue item, since even if we get more white item than yellow, the numbers are pretty lower than Blues and Green. This is sucky since blue are the rarity of the majority of crafting material. So if you are trying to farm TIer 6 fine crafting material (Like I do for my Legendary), MF will be useless to you. With a better gear you will be able to get more Item since you kill faster.


P.S. : Core and Lodestone are yellow rarity and are sell at a high price (depending on which one), so they are probably the best thing to farm with a MF gear.

#4 matsif

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 05:50 PM

from my experience with my MF set (over 100% with a few cons), I really haven't seen that much of a difference overall.  That said I don't use it in dungeons and I don't really farm events that often, so I don't really have a good comparison yet.

#5 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 06:14 PM

The problem is that, in the majority of the game, you simply do not need the stats, that you are giving up in exchange for MF: you don't need to play better to be able to afford MF as the game is simply easy enough that MF gear is completely sufficient.
That's why you might as well be using MF. Stats give you the ability to do content easier, but you don't need that extra ease, so you might as well be using the armour that gives you a special kind of a bonus.

#6 kalendraf

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 06:47 PM

I'm still not sold on MF as a mechanic. I have four 80 level toons, and I equipped one of them with MF gear and ate Omnom bars, while the other 3 had no MF gear and no MF food boosts.  After playing them about equally (for example ~100 hours on main MF toon vs. ~100 hours spread across the 3 non-MF toons), I found that my toons w/o any MF gear got significantly more and better magic drops compared to my character with the MF gear.

Obviously, it's a very small sample, and no doubt my luck was horrible when I used the MF toon, but based on this small sample, there just didn't seem to be enough reason to justify running MF gear at all.

Edited by kalendraf, 22 March 2013 - 06:48 PM.


#7 Rod Adams

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:55 PM

As many have stated, in open world play, you don't need the extra stats you get if you don't use MF.
However, with those stats, you can increase your kills per hour, and thus drops per hour. I've not seen any hard data on the topic, but I suspect the higher drop rate outweighs the slightly higher quality drops.

The types of places where you'd actually want the stats for better performance (Dungeons, Fractals, Mega Bosses), typically have the big rewards from end chests.

Thus, MF gear has little appeal to me.
I could see having a set of full MF Rares for open world zerging, and then a set of non-MF Exotics for other play though. But that sounds like more trouble than it's worth.

Edited by Rod Adams, 22 March 2013 - 07:55 PM.


#8 Solawing

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 06:21 AM

Thanks, everyone.
So... is the follow conclusions right?
1: On open world, MF is theortically significantly useful because the main reward is from drops. With 100% MF, the chance of getting a Rare or Exotic item will be doubled theortically. (It is not that useful because you kill less mobs in MF set than that in berserker set)
2: In dungeons, fractals or mega bosses, MF will be useful but very limited (I am not sure how much reward comes from drops in these places, maybe less than 20%?).
3: MF will not do anything in any other situations that involved with random factor, such as Mystic Forge or salvaging for mats.

#9 JHCinSC

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 03:55 PM

I find MF's benefit depends on what you are doing.  I may find an inconsequential increase in rares and exotics, but when farming trolls for tier 6 mats I found a huge increase in blood drops with MF gear vs without.  Two of my lvl 80 toons have MF gear as an alt set of armor; for one she just uses an inexpensive rare set as it probably isn't worth it to invest in an exotic set (you get no increase in MF ability, just armor and the other properties as I recall).

#10 Jetjordan

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 04:01 PM

yeah before karka farming became useless I noticed a great increase in blood drops (and the occasional rare) when wearing MF.  I also wear it spark farming, even though I never get lodestones I get a decent amount of rares.

#11 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 04:34 PM

The problem with MF gear is that, simply put, the stats on the gear doesn't scale well.  A full set of MF gear gives +3% MF per piece and +4% per jewel, so a full set of MF gear would net you around 60% MF at a substantial loss to your other stats.  By comparison, a set of MF runes (i.e. Pirate) already gives +50% MF, and food gives +30%, at a significantly lower cost in terms of tradeoffs.

That said, something like Explorer's gear actually isn't a bad set to run per se, since it gives two of the three major damage stats (power, precision, but not crit damage).  Compared to most people who run PVT or something, you will actually deal more damage with an Explorer set.

#12 Gerroh

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 04:47 PM

Magic find gear; the best way to show your team you've no intention of being useful.

Best way to use magic find is from the guild boosts (more because it helps motivate people than anything else, speaking from a guild leader perspective here), and omnomberry bars, because they also give the +40% coin from enemies, so in dungeons it's a guaranteed payoff.
So because of this, it's my opinion that magic find gear should be removed altogether. It doesn't seem like something that should be on equipment- including runes and sigils. I think it should just be a temporary bonus you can get from banners, guild boosts, food, and similar things.

#13 FoxBat

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 05:22 PM

View PostGuanglaiKangyi, on 23 March 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

That said, something like Explorer's gear actually isn't a bad set to run per se, since it gives two of the three major damage stats (power, precision, but not crit damage).  Compared to most people who run PVT or something, you will actually deal more damage with an Explorer set.

In terms of raw damage, a full set of major power is very close to minor power/precision. Without crit damage (or whatever build procs) the latter stat doesn't do a whole lot. So no, you'll be about as bad as PVT.

Edited by FoxBat, 23 March 2013 - 05:23 PM.


#14 Alex Dimitri

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 06:17 PM

Let`s see, in my opinion MF gear is totally useless ! Reason for me stating this is simple i`ve done tone of farming in various places around Tyria and difference you can see is this, you simply get more crap loot (i guess "magic find" works best for white/blue/green items and lower tier mats) but as we all know those items don`t worth much to begin with so the gain is just not worth the investment !

1.My Asura Mesmer was till recently in full exotic MF gear alongside rings/earings/amulet (also exotic MF) and weapon sigil (MF) i was using food (Omnomberrie Bars/Lotus Fries and gem store MF consumable). This gave me huge MF stat, and with all that i was getting about 20% more drops (usually crapy ones) than i got on my other characters (where i used only food Lotus Fries) and normal gear !

2.I got Legendary (Dusk) as a drop, but get this i got it on my Necro (condition gear with only 30% MF from Lotus Fries) !!!

3.MF gear in my opinion doesn`t help that much either with farming Lodestones, in numerous tries with my Asura mesmer (full MF) and other seven characters (normal gear + MF food) there was no difference in drop rates. Asura got usually 1 per hour (group kills) the same was about to every other character i tried out on same place ! Also the only place i found worthwhile farming for lodestones was Frostgorge Sound (corrupted lodestones run) for some reason lodestones do tend to drop more frequently there then any other farmable place.

4.One more thing i discovered while farming is that once you do couple of hours of farming on same spot you don`t even need to bother returning on the same place (with same character) next day !!!
Two day break makes all the difference (at least it did for me), whenever i tried to farm with same character same place next day i got particular (and very annoying) bad luck and drops were awful (2-3+ hours) for just one lodestone (example) !

5.When you open HERO panel, you can see all your character stats (or almost all) even in full MF gear game doesn`t tell you how much MF % you have, which lead me to believe that : a) MF is not considered stat at all by GW2 or B) MF is calculated on completely different way (to be honest we don`t even know what is base stat in GW2 for MF let alone how much we increase this stat with those % we add by using MF gear) !

6.All this made me dismantle the MF gear on my Asura (got even 11 ectos out of it :P) and continued farming with only cheapest "food buff" i can get, And income remain the same lodestones drop at same rate just i kill mobs helluva faster now and i can farm alone on my mesmer !

So in my PERSONAL opinion MF gear is just a sham, and it will continue to be until Anet doesn`t actually explain "how it works" and what actual items are affected by +% from MF !!!

#15 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 06:56 PM

View PostFoxBat, on 23 March 2013 - 05:22 PM, said:

In terms of raw damage, a full set of major power is very close to minor power/precision. Without crit damage (or whatever build procs) the latter stat doesn't do a whole lot. So no, you'll be about as bad as PVT.

Major power is about 1k power; minor is about 700.  That extra 300 power is worth about 18% more damage as a result.

By comparison, 700 precision + base crit damage (assuming no traits) is worth about 33% crit chance.  At 50% crit damage that's worth 17% more damage; at 80% it's about 26%.

In other words, at worst it's roughly equal and goes up to a good 8% more damage, depending on how you are traited.

#16 paradiselight

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 07:12 PM

Magic find is probably only useful for general PvE and t6 material farming, and even then, you need to consider a few things when making a MF character.

In general, it's important to not max MF and take into account the stat tradeoff to obtain MF. Exotic explorer gears sacrifice too much stat for just 3% MF a piece (wearing rare gear is even worse). The stat sacrifice is so much that you're going to kill mobs so much slower that your overall return is going to be worse than a non-MF character.

The sweet spot is
1) For amor: Berserker + 5 pirate + 1 traveler for 60% MF
2) Weapon: Berserker with sigil of luck, swap once 25 stacks are maxed.
3) Trinket slot: exquisite opal orbs for 4% MF each.
4) If you're willing, spend 50 laurels to get The Golden Lotus + Magical Infusion for 30% MF.

This gives you 125% MF total while a full MF character will only have about 40% MF more than this. If you take into account guild + banner + food bonuses, the MF difference isn't that much, but your damage output is going to be way higher.

That's what I run to farm t6 mats (5g+ an hour).

#17 RifterUT

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:11 AM

Im mixed on this subject. I have 2 lvl 80's, one a Charr warrior decked out in full zerker exotics, the other is a human thief decked out in full explorer exotics and fully traited and skilled for mobility and stealth, i use him soley to farm orr for nodes, as well as run pent/shelt for drops and farm for loadestones as well, basically a built from the ground up farmer.

I find my thief does indeed see a much larger drop rate of rare items, but not more items ovrall. For example i run pent shelt with both toons for 1 hour my thief wont have more items but will have more rare drops and more tier 6 mats. Warrior will have roughly same number of items and matts dropped but more will be white blue items and tier 5 mats than tier 6.

So to me it doesnt seem to effect amount of drops but does effect quality of drops.

#18 sonofdiablo

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 08:56 AM

The answers here are much like that commercial on tv that says "everything is true on the internet".....how do you know? "they said so on the internet". lol Nobody really knows the advantages of MF in this game. I personally think it's as random as luck is therefore if you have no luck MF isn't going to help you much. But, if you're just farming it certainly can't hurt to have a magic find set of gear on. I had one in Diablo II for whatever part it helped in gaining rich loot drops. (I never really noticed a differenct).

#19 drkn

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 12:29 PM

View PostRod Adams, on 22 March 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

As many have stated, in open world play, you don't need the extra stats you get if you don't use MF.
However, with those stats, you can increase your kills per hour, and thus drops per hour. I've not seen any hard data on the topic, but I suspect the higher drop rate outweighs the slightly higher quality drops.

The types of places where you'd actually want the stats for better performance (Dungeons, Fractals, Mega Bosses), typically have the big rewards from end chests.

Thus, MF gear has little appeal to me.
I could see having a set of full MF Rares for open world zerging, and then a set of non-MF Exotics for other play though. But that sounds like more trouble than it's worth.
QFT.

#20 kalendraf

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:10 PM

View PostSolawing, on 23 March 2013 - 06:21 AM, said:

Thanks, everyone.
So... is the follow conclusions right?
1: On open world, MF is theortically significantly useful because the main reward is from drops. With 100% MF, the chance of getting a Rare or Exotic item will be doubled theortically. (It is not that useful because you kill less mobs in MF set than that in berserker set)
The word "significantly" seems like a poor choice here.  Doubling an extremely tiny chance for a drop...still leads to an extremely tiny chance for a drop.  I'd re-write that statement above as follows:

1: On open world, MF is theortically useful since the chance of getting better items is supposedly increased.  However, the chance is still so insignficantly tiny that the results may not be noticeable.

#21 AKGeo

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 07:36 PM

I only use MF in places where a rate of T6 materials dropping is high, or when there are a lot of other people around to assist in the killing. I do notice a marked improvement in T6 drops vs T5 doing trolls, karka, arctodus, and icebrood (vicious claws).

I also swap to MF gear at Jade Maw for the possible improved chances of exotic drops (since they're rumored to be uncommonly high in that fractal), as well as onyx lodes and powerful venom (the biggest draw).

I have twice as many powerful venom as other T6 materials, only by drops, for this reason. MF has a known and significant effect on those drops SIMPLY because the base chance is so high relative to that of rare and exotic equipment, or lodestones.

I'm also of the mindset that lodestones don't even see MF, as there isn't a potential drop from lodestone-dropping enemies that can be boosted up. You don't see cores from level 80 mobs. There's no chance to boost over a lesser item. MF likely takes the item you're about to have drop for you, and roll for a chance at that higher rarity based on your MF stat.

That said, I run full MF armor with superior eagle runes, and berserker accessories in fractals. Doing open-world farming, I change those jewels out to full MF as well. I've stopped using omnomberry bars completely, as the gold per monster drop (now that I've boycotted AC) is a horrible return. When I do the occasional CoF path 1 speed run for that half hour, yeah I'll run an omnom or a raspberry peach bar just for that slave driver. But champs dropping significant silver in other dungeons are few and far between anymore.

#22 Blorg

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 07:50 PM

MF is only good when sticking to events in Orr, where you can do little damage and still get loot. Because in pure solo game, MF make you kill things slower especially if you have a melee char, so then it's not worth it. I have a full MF set on my Ranger, and even though RNG is RNG I have a lot more loot in the bags after a farm session.

Chests aren't affected by MF, only mob kills, so in boss fights and fractal/instances where you skip most of the trash it's totally useless. If I suspect a group member to an instance having MF gear i ask them to link some gear and if true, kick and blacklisted. They can go leech on someone else.

Edited by Blorg, 25 March 2013 - 07:50 PM.


#23 AKGeo

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 08:03 PM

I like how someone wearing MF gear in an instance is automatically "leeching". Ridiculous. And blacklisting? Give me a break.

#24 Blorg

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 08:47 PM

You say you run MF armor, that's 91 Power and 16% crit damage you lose for a mere 18% MF if you would had run with berserker armor instead. Or maybe you should've had knight armor and caused less time-wasting interruptions to res you. Either way, you're leeching cause you're missing out on stats. My personal experience is also that those who use MF are the slackers of the group, who's only real effort seem to be to do as little as possible in the instance. Maybe that's why your CoF 1 runs take half an hour :)

I agree that Jade Maw mobs have better drop rate of at least Mist essences, and they are easy to do, so I couldn't care less if someone max MF for it. But most of the pugs i've been in want to skip all the mobs there too and finish ASAP.

#25 ChuyDog08

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 11:17 PM

I recently started using a set of MF Armor with 5/6 Rune of Pirate and 1/6 Rune of the Traveler.  I only wear this set to farm T6 materials.  I have seen a noticeable increase number of T6 mats, moldy bags, and rares.   If nothing else, I feel that I am getting more.

#26 Mister Stygian

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 11:35 PM

The peope that get irate about people using MF in dungeons are absurd.  If I roll in with a memer usign traveler gear which is power and precision and you are using any set besides full beserker which people complain about too, you are doing less damage than me and have less chance of staying alive than I do even though you are using a health or toughness boost.  The real leechers are the people playing inferior classes.  

That being said, I carry several sets of armor on all my characters and I change them out situationally.  If I am in a part of a map that has a bunch of low level mobs, MF is goin on.   If it is a boss, I will put on a survival or a full damage set depending.  Chaning armor is as easy as changing utility skills, and you should probably be doing both throughout most dungeons or different fractals.

Edited by Mister Stygian, 25 March 2013 - 11:43 PM.


#27 Symbiont

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:17 AM

in general MF in dungeons isn't very welcome when everyone else are busting their butt without MF.

you want to run a dungeon with me using 200+ MF? yes that is about the amount i have on my ranger. i only use it for T6 mats farming and it works like a charm. the thing is i suspect there is a diminishing return at work, so i stop after a while or go some place else.

no MF in my dungeon.

Edited by Symbiont, 26 March 2013 - 12:18 AM.


#28 Strawberry Nubcake

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:53 AM

View PostMister Stygian, on 25 March 2013 - 11:35 PM, said:

The real leechers are the people playing inferior classes.
Yeah!  I guess I should feel like a leech when it's my inferior elementalist in soldier armor scraping the glass cannons off the ground in dungeons and high level fractals.  Nobody brings anything useful to the party except berserker warriors, mesmers, and guardians.  DPS or GTFO!

Anyway!  As for the topic of MF and it being useful... I usually swap to MF gear while clearing the mobs for a couple of the fractals and then at the maw.  My drops actually seem better with just the 40% from the omnomberry cremes.  Go figure!

Results obviously vary when it comes to loot, but having a second set of armor in your inventory is great for those moments when you find yourself in a less than amazing fractals party and don't want to go back to LA for repairs or pop a repair canister.  Who knows!  Resisting the urge to ragequit might pay off thanks to the increased MF!  ;)

#29 Majic

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 01:32 AM

View PostAKGeo, on 25 March 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

I like how someone wearing MF gear in an instance is automatically "leeching". Ridiculous. And blacklisting? Give me a break.

Well, well, well. Looks like we got ourselves a leecher here.

Not only does that mean you're getting kicked and blacklisted, but this is going on your permanent record. And rest assured, Colin Johanson will be informed about you and will add your name to his Inexorable Black Book Of People He Doesn't Think Very Highly Of.

Death to the leechers!

Oh, and um... while we're on the subject, could you spare a few gold to, you know, tide me over until I get back on my feet? This MF set I'm wearing really took a beating on that last speed run and the repairs are killing me.

Oh, and um... you gonna finish that omnom bar? :P

#30 Wordsworth

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 02:19 AM

Use it for everything except WvW, Fractals 30+ and maybe Arah.




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