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Past time for Alliances

guild alliance guild missions

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#1 ShezuTsukai

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 02:56 PM

With the inclusion of the really cool new content of guild missions to GW2 it is past time for GW2 to catch up to GW1 with alliances.

The small guilds need a real alliance system in order to fully participate in the missions beyond the training. It was very nice of Anet to include the training so small guilds can get to the real missions. But they are still severely hindered in actually being able to run a full mission.

I have heard of some guilds getting together for missions and using some form of voice chat. I think that's great. But that is nowhere close to the teamwork and participation potential that existed in GW1.

This would also be a huge boon in WvW for coordinating in a more meaningful way than just mobbing on the commanders.

If Anet doesn't bring in alliances soon what are recommendations for forming unofficial alliances?

#2 El Duderino

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 02:57 PM

Does your server have a website/forum? That is kind of like an alliance, I guess, although I do miss alliance chat.

#3 rukia

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 03:25 AM

I find it so ludicrous to the point of being silly that there aren't alliances when guild missions don't even scale for smaller groups. Oh cool.. we can finally get to the missions, but we still don't have enough players to do them. Honestly how do these people have degree's?

#4 RifterUT

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:05 AM

I agree, small guilds are already foruming unofficial alliances for the missions why not make an official tool to support this.

#5 Aetou

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 12:25 PM

View Postrukia, on 25 March 2013 - 03:25 AM, said:

I find it so ludicrous to the point of being silly that there aren't alliances when guild missions don't even scale for smaller groups. Oh cool.. we can finally get to the missions, but we still don't have enough players to do them. Honestly how do these people have degree's?

They do scale.  They have three tiers for different sized guilds...

#6 drkn

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 12:31 PM

Find several small guilds that would like to ally together.
Have all players join one of them, possibly best known/respected/developed.
Enjoy your guild missions.

#7 ProfGast

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 05:57 AM

View PostAetou, on 25 March 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

They do scale.  They have three tiers for different sized guilds...
That's kinda a fallacy...  In some ways, Tier 1 Bounty is JUST as hard as a Tier 2.  To guarantee either as successful you'd be recommended to find all of the marks before kicking off the bounty, and taking them out once you've identified your targets.  This means if you lack the 15 people to hunt down the marks (18 soon), you're playing dice with The Lady, and she always cheats.  Also she has a friend named Murphy.

Actually killing the marks notwithstanding (So many BODIES around Sottz), bounties are only really open for guilds who have the manpower to do the hunting.  Smaller groups are pretty much SoL

#8 ThiaTheMuse

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:29 AM

This may be slightly off topic, but for the record: How many people are required to do a bounty? Like, the minimum amount needed for success?

I ask, because we keep talking about needed a few small guilds together to do these bounties. But, how many people is a "small guild"? 5? 10? 20?

#9 Arewn

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:30 AM

View Postdrkn, on 25 March 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

Find several small guilds that would like to ally together.
Have all players join one of them, possibly best known/respected/developed.
Enjoy your guild missions.
I have to agree with this. Have three small guilds that want to be in an alliance? make a 4th guild called Alliance of ______ and have all members join in. Use that guild to organize things, go into your individual guilds to do them.
Sure an actual alliance system would be better, but it's not like there's no reasonable ways around not having one.

#10 drkn

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:45 PM

Quote

How many people are required to do a bounty? Like, the minimum amount needed for success?
t1 - 5
t2 - ~10
t3 - ~20

You can be unlucky with champions and still fail, but assuming your friends know what to do and aren't retards, that's about right.

#11 Wordsworth

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:49 PM

View PostArewn, on 26 March 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

I have to agree with this. Have three small guilds that want to be in an alliance? make a 4th guild called Alliance of ______ and have all members join in. Use that guild to organize things, go into your individual guilds to do them.
Sure an actual alliance system would be better, but it's not like there's no reasonable ways around not having one.

That's so "ugh", though. ANet was simply woefully unprepared with these Guild Missions when they had no reason to be. Another one of the things that make you wonder where their heads are at.

#12 Pyrea

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 01:15 PM

View PostArewn, on 26 March 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

I have to agree with this. Have three small guilds that want to be in an alliance? make a 4th guild called Alliance of ______ and have all members join in. Use that guild to organize things, go into your individual guilds to do them.
Sure an actual alliance system would be better, but it's not like there's no reasonable ways around not having one.

This is a Brilliant idea until (if they do) introduce Alliance mode :)

#13 ShezuTsukai

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 01:38 PM

The problem I see with having an umbrella guild as your alliance is the rewards. The rewards are higher for the guild and their members participating in the event over what is given to those of other guilds just joining in.

If all of the alliance members are representing the alliance guild to maximize rewards then what is the point to having separate/unique guilds?

#14 Arewn

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:36 PM

View PostWordsworth, on 27 March 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

That's so "ugh", though. ANet was simply woefully unprepared with these Guild Missions when they had no reason to be. Another one of the things that make you wonder where their heads are at.
A subset of the player base wants a certain feature/system, and stubornly refuses to use the perfectly viable current in game systems instead. This doesn't make Arena Net "woefully unprepared", it just means some people are inflexible, and possibly spoiled by the convenience they've experienced from Alliances in the past.

Maybe it's because I've never experienced an Alliance system myself, and as such am not yearning for it, but I really don't see the big issue. Like I said, they'd certainly be better, but what's in game now is perfectly fine and I don't consider Alliances a development priority.

View PostShezuTsukai, on 28 March 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

The problem I see with having an umbrella guild as your alliance is the rewards. The rewards are higher for the guild and their members participating in the event over what is given to those of other guilds just joining in.

If all of the alliance members are representing the alliance guild to maximize rewards then what is the point to having separate/unique guilds?
The "umbrella guild" would purely be there for scheduling and orginizational purposes, people would represent their own guild during their guild's mission run so that each guild gets their rewards.
Is it expected that an Alliance system would give all participating guilds full guild mission rewards? I would expect not. It would be there to facilitate orginization, comunication and schedualing between guilds, not as a cheap way to pick up the rewards all at once.

Inversly, the umbrella guild could turn into the "main" guild used to aquire guild mission rewards, and people would go back to their individual guilds for what ever social purpose they want.

#15 Wordsworth

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:16 PM

View PostArewn, on 28 March 2013 - 06:36 PM, said:

A subset of the player base wants a certain feature/system, and stubornly refuses to use the perfectly viable current in game systems instead. This doesn't make Arena Net "woefully unprepared", it just means some people are inflexible, and possibly spoiled by the convenience they've experienced from Alliances in the past.

Maybe it's because I've never experienced an Alliance system myself, and as such am not yearning for it, but I really don't see the big issue. Like I said, they'd certainly be better, but what's in game now is perfectly fine and I don't consider Alliances a development priority.

No one is refusing it. Most people do it, in fact. Switch around from guild to guild to reap the benefits. Not entirely because their main guild can't complete, but mostly for convenience.

The fact that people feel the need to change guilds to accomplish guild missions means ANet mucked this up. Especially when there was a system in place in the past that would accommodate smaller guilds and guild cooperation.

#16 jimmie51

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:22 PM

on JQ we have already done this.  My guild belongs to two different alliances.  The Slay guild has been inviting people and holding smal fun events like jumping puzzles with gold going to 1,2 and 3 place.  Also the Greater Broney alliance is a guild formed for just this reason.  It sure doesn't take the place of a true alliance and not having an alliance chat sucks but it has helped us until Anet adds alliances.

#17 Arewn

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:45 PM

View PostWordsworth, on 28 March 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

No one is refusing it. Most people do it, in fact. Switch around from guild to guild to reap the benefits. Not entirely because their main guild can't complete, but mostly for convenience.

The fact that people feel the need to change guilds to accomplish guild missions means ANet mucked this up. Especially when there was a system in place in the past that would accommodate smaller guilds and guild cooperation.
I've never experienced GW1's alliance system, but I looked it up. Leaving out the PvP and factions stuff which is irrelavent to GW2, it basically offered an extra chat that all the guilds in the alliance could use, and the ability to see each guild in the Alliance. Either using commanders or a spare guild, you can have that in GW2, so I really don't see what the big deal is.
Heck you can just have the guilds officers join a party together to comunicate, and then use their respective guild's chat to direct their players.
Is there a facet of the Alliance system I'm missing? or are you actually not asking for an alliance system, but rather an easier way to rake in the rewards as a small guilds? Because a GW1 style Alliance system is NOT going to facilitate anything that isn't already in GW2.


And on a side note, I was actually in a thread talking about a similar subject where people refused to use the alternatives x.x

Edited by Arewn, 28 March 2013 - 07:48 PM.


#18 Dark

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 03:42 AM

I do miss alliances and guild halls :(

#19 Hex65000

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 04:05 PM

Agreed that alliances or some mechanic that allows smaller guilds to tie together in a clean way needs to occur. The guild mission content flattened the guild I was running with because we all realized there were'nt enough of us to do the new stuff and recruiting for a smaller guild experiencing decline is pretty tough.

So everyone either decided to play something else or moved on to another group. Some folks joined the larger 'McGuilds'. I'm not excited by the larger guilds and as a function of that I wound up joining three different groups, each one fills a specific want. One has just enough manpower and influence to do at least the first tier of guild missions so I am not feeling locked out of that. Another is super social and are fun to run with. The third focuses on dungeon runs and when I've gone with them it's been really smooth and overall quite enjoyable.

The result is I hop from character to character to see what's going on -- if anything. It felt rude to have my characters hop from rep to rep so I keep a specific character tuned to each guild.

Of course the flipside of this is that I'm not exactly forming strong bonds with the other members because hey, I'm just hopping around.

It would be nice to be able to at least tune into multiple guild channels -- either that or perhaps Anet sat there and said, "Oh hey, multiple guilds are a mess. how do we encourage people to just pick one?" On that day, guild missions with huge influence requirements were born. (Yes, that is pure speculation.)

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#20 AKGeo

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:39 PM

View PostHex65000, on 04 April 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:


either that or perhaps Anet sat there and said, "Oh hey, multiple guilds are a mess. how do we encourage people to just pick one?" On that day, guild missions with huge influence requirements were born. (Yes, that is pure speculation.)


But is more likely than not the absolute truth of it.

#21 chuckles79

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:49 PM

I got to meet some of the developers and it really seems that guild content is the least supported aspect of the operation.  The guy doing the developing is a lot younger and seems kinda "out on a limb" when it comes to support.

I'd kill for the simple alliance system to be ported over from GW1.  Even a simple Alliance chat would be an improvement.
We all miss guild halls and capes and hopefully they can work those in as time allows as well.

TL;DR Put the GUILD back in GUILD WARS

#22 Daenerys

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:23 PM

I don't think it's too late. People seem to be forgetting that the game isn't even a year old yet. It's still a baby, but they do need to start pushing out better content. They want to be the best MMO, and have said so many times, so they need to crank out more cooler features than any other MMO has.

The guild I'm runs guild missions twice a week. One day is usually quieter, especially this past weekend due to Easter. We attempted to work together with another guild with a similar number of people on to try and help each other out, but due to difficult communication (even with voice servers) it was rocky and ended up failing.

Alliances would be ridiculously helpful, especially for small guilds. ANet has at least tried to make stuff a it easier on smaller guilds with the last patch, but they need to keep it up.

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#23 Symbiont

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 11:07 PM

my guild is still pretty small at the moment, yet we've been invited to join bigger guilds to do guild missions together.
however our guild's main focus is WvW and we do WvW events with other guilds as well, it just could've been better with the right tools.
sadly the game currently lacks the tools for this, i hope something is in the works.

#24 Targren

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 07:40 PM

View PostArewn, on 28 March 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:

And on a side note, I was actually in a thread talking about a similar subject where people refused to use the alternatives x.x

The "alternatives" aren't alternatives, if you consider that the guild missions aren't just about the player rewards (commendations). "Treks" don't even offer personal rewards.  The "Umbrella Guild"/pseudo-Alliance would be the one getting the merits, and I'm not sure you even get any rewards other than the normal event completion if you're not repping the guild that has the bounty running. It's a work-around on the individual level, but offers nothing to the guild.





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