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#1 Decollete

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:56 AM

Not promoting/bashing zerk groups/gear linking, but for those groups that require gear, what is the minimum quality of gear that they expect?

I understand armor have to be Exotics
What about Back, Amulets, Rings and Accessories?
Stat differences between Masterwork -> Rare -> Exotic are small last I checked, are Masterwork/Rare sufficient?

Edited by Decollete, 26 March 2013 - 03:38 AM.


#2 Dasryn

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 05:05 AM

i think they want your main gear to be at least exotics, unless otherwise specified, "FULL ZERKER" if it says full zerker, they want it all exotic zerker gear

#3 pumpkin pie

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 05:44 AM

I think its the runes you put on your armor. this one x 6 in my humble opinion, upgrade components that make your character have more power and critical damage

BTW I don't need a full zerker gear to run dungeon :P , you've got to not stand still, dodge! bring condition removing skills, coordinate with your party, don't go afk and you will be fine.

#4 d_fens

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 05:57 AM

Full exotics or nothing. Those people will bash you for wasting every milisecond of their valuable time not spent on CoF1 farming. So you better come prepared, do not talk and just speedrun till your eyes bleed.

#5 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 08:15 AM

Everything is supposed to be exotic.  Armor makes up less than a third of your total stats.  Accessories + jewels make up almost twice that.

If people expected you to half-ass your way through the dungeon they wouldn't be looking for zerkers to begin with.  A guy in full green zerker gear will do probably even less than someone in full exotic PVT or Explorer's, although it's late and I haven't actually checked the math for that statement.

It's bad, is what I'm saying.

#6 Dasryn

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:47 AM

beserker stats are Power, Precision and Crit.

so any jewel, accessory, armor, back item, weapons that possess those stats is beserker gear.

#7 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:55 AM

View PostDecollete, on 26 March 2013 - 02:56 AM, said:

Stat differences between Masterwork -> Rare -> Exotic are small last I checked, are Masterwork/Rare sufficient?

That's not necessarily true, remember also that the difference in Armor stat across Masterwork to Exotic is fairly significant. There's just not really any point weakening yourself and trying to get away with it, Exotics are relatively cheap and don't require much of a grind whatsoever.

#8 A Cigar

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:58 AM

Why do you even think masterwork armor is ok? If people ask for full beserker, make sure you have it full exotic, otherwise there is no point in going full beserker.

#9 Dasryn

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:07 AM

they dont always say, full zerker.

a lot of times people get by with their main gear being "zerker"

#10 beadnbutter32

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:46 AM

It's a kind of chicken and egg deal.

You can't run dungeons if  you don't have full exo zerker gear.

You can't afford full exo zerker gear unless you run dungeons.

In actuality if you want to run dungeons, you first have to run Cursed Shore DE's until your eyes bleed in order to buy your full exo zerker outift.  With the average price of zerker gear in the 5 gold and up range your looking at at least 40 gold.  Farming Orr DE;s might net you 1.5 gold an hour so some where around 27 hours will be involved for an average player playing the game 'as intended.'

#11 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:00 PM

View Postbeadnbutter32, on 26 March 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

You can't run dungeons if  you don't have full exo zerker gear.

I think you'll find a lot of the GW community is not that brutally attached to min-maxing. There's no way for anyone to tell if you actually have full exotics anyway, so what they don't know can't hurt them.

#12 Jetjordan

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:19 PM

^yeah I run dungeons with guildies and sometimes pugs that aren't min/maxers.  Just make sure that you aren't joining an all Mes/war CoF zerk speed run if you aren't geared for it.  Most people are pretty nice and the speed runners have their groups ready a lot of the time now anyways.

#13 Symbiont

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:23 PM

"full exo beserker" = the character has at least all exotic beserker gear.
zerker = beserker gear with probably gear that are less then exotic.

always check those backpieces ;)

#14 Zshinobi

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:26 PM

After reading through this thread I went onto gw2lfg.com and look what I saw
Spoiler


I'm pretty sure the poster meant "ping" but lol. The pink requirement might become a reality when ascended weapons and armors are released though. The "speedrunners" are pretty elitist but apart from them, the community is fine. Everyone has to start somewhere anyway ;)

Edited by Zshinobi, 26 March 2013 - 12:26 PM.


#15 Symbiont

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:27 PM

View PostZshinobi, on 26 March 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

After reading through this thread I went onto gw2lfg.com and look what I saw
Spoiler


I'm pretty sure the poster meant "ping" but lol. The "speedrunners" are pretty elitist but apart from them, the community is fine. Everyone has to start somewhere anyway ;)

or he means, ascended gear. now that is one "elitist" you want to stay away from ;D

#16 Zhaitan

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:12 PM

View Postd_fens, on 26 March 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

Full exotics or nothing. Those people will bash you for wasting every milisecond of their valuable time not spent on CoF1 farming. So you better come prepared, do not talk and just speedrun till your eyes bleed.

It is quite true. However, there is also another way to look at it.

Zerk rushing COF is pretty much a Flavor of the Month (FotM) build with the exception that the month in Tyria seems to prolong thru multiple seasons. As in case with any FotM build, COF zerk build pivots around some very specific needs. To be efficient the team needs to output an extreme level of DPS to prevent a wipe. It means that no time can be wasted in ressing, helping, covering the weaker link. It also means that everyone in the group knows what needs to happen and when. Mesmer needs to know the pull/push, when to cast TW, feedback etc. Warriors need to do banner checks  and know how to produce maximum DPS while avoiding the KD, fire damage etc. When done effectively 4 warrior + 1 mes COF farm group can complete the path in less than 6 minutes consistently.

That said, you will be quite successful in running with any group having any type of character combination as long as you know what is needed to counter/mitigate the attacks/damage. Yes, you will not be able to complete the runs in less than 6 minutes but, it won't take you more than 15 minutes. A competent group with 1 guard, 1 war/thief, 1 mes, 1 nec/ranger, 1 ele/engineer will complete this run successfully and consistently within 8 minutes. A balanced group with competent players without having multiple toons from the same class can handle any dungeon in this game.

Quote

You can't run dungeons if  you don't have full exo zerker gear.

You can't afford full exo zerker gear unless you run dungeons.
Best way to gear up your first toon in this game is by spending some time by doing events and WvW. You will amass a lot of money+karma and will get a full set of exotics with a few days. You will also gain a lot of experience in WvW and will be able to experience how socialization works in this game.

As a matter of fact, you will be able to complete many dungeons without much problem while wearing masterwork/rare. You will have no part in a COF zerk rush as you will simply be dragging your team down and will possibly play a big part in multiple wipes. But, you will be able to do COF in a different setup like the one I suggested with a guard/ele. Once you gear up your first toon, the subsequent ones will be a breeze and most of your alts will have their level 80 gears ready-to-wear even before they hit 80. For GW2 dungeons, mandatory BiS gear is truly not a requirement.

Edited by Zhaitan, 26 March 2013 - 01:16 PM.


#17 Darkobra

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:35 PM

View Postbeadnbutter32, on 26 March 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

It's a kind of chicken and egg deal.

You can't run dungeons if  you don't have full exo zerker gear.

You can't afford full exo zerker gear unless you run dungeons.

In actuality if you want to run dungeons, you first have to run Cursed Shore DE's until your eyes bleed in order to buy your full exo zerker outift.  With the average price of zerker gear in the 5 gold and up range your looking at at least 40 gold.  Farming Orr DE;s might net you 1.5 gold an hour so some where around 27 hours will be involved for an average player playing the game 'as intended.'

None of that is true. It is very possible to get berserker's gear with just crafting. Everything I wear is from crafting, right down to the jewellery. You also definitely do not need full berserker's to run ANY dungeon. I have never seen anyone saying "LFM AC Paths 1-3 must have full berserker."

#18 Desild

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:46 PM

When people say Beserker I say: "Oh, that crap people insist is the end all be all gear stat combo? Be a man, or a girl, we don't judge. Get a proper set, like, I dunno. Knight or Cleric. Maybe Carrion?"

And bare mimimum, Rare quality. At least for any dungeon bellow level 60. Including Explorer Modes.

Don't go try Arah without full Exotics. You will be eaten alive.

Edited by Desild, 26 March 2013 - 01:48 PM.


#19 dudeeye

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:16 PM

View PostDesild, on 26 March 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

When people say Beserker I say: "Oh, that crap people insist is the end all be all gear stat combo? Be a man, or a girl, we don't judge. Get a proper set, like, I dunno. Knight or Cleric. Maybe Carrion?"

And bare mimimum, Rare quality. At least for any dungeon bellow level 60. Including Explorer Modes.

Don't go try Arah without full Exotics. You will be eaten alive.

Not really, i did Arah with only 2 exotic gears, the rest were all rare on my guardian

#20 Gruunz

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:52 PM

View Postbeadnbutter32, on 26 March 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

It's a kind of chicken and egg deal.

You can't run dungeons if  you don't have full exo zerker gear.

You can't afford full exo zerker gear unless you run dungeons.

In actuality if you want to run dungeons, you first have to run Cursed Shore DE's until your eyes bleed in order to buy your full exo zerker outift.  With the average price of zerker gear in the 5 gold and up range your looking at at least 40 gold.  Farming Orr DE;s might net you 1.5 gold an hour so some where around 27 hours will be involved for an average player playing the game 'as intended.'

Or you could just run cof dungeon with regular groups.

#21 Thaddeuz

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:53 PM

View PostDecollete, on 26 March 2013 - 02:56 AM, said:

Not promoting/bashing zerk groups/gear linking, but for those groups that require gear, what is the minimum quality of gear that they expect?

I understand armor have to be Exotics
What about Back, Amulets, Rings and Accessories?
Stat differences between Masterwork -> Rare -> Exotic are small last I checked, are Masterwork/Rare sufficient?

I do these runs and you need full exotic. Armor, Weapons and trinket (except the back item, nobody care). You don't need ascended gear, but if you do that good. The majority don't care about runes or sigil, but ruby orb are cheap and pretty good.

You have to understand the reason behind these requirement. A CoF path 1 farm with 1 Mesmer and 4 warrior is like a Formula 1. The group and setup give you the maximum speed you can achieve, but its gonna break about 1 miles after the finish line. So if you don't bring the maximum dps you can, the group won't be able to kill these mobs and boss in a shout enough time to survive. When we run that, we don't have survivability and we don't play to survive. We stack on the mobs to maximize dps and doing that we are often left with a little hp left at the end of each encounter. Someone which something less than a full zerker setup won't just gonna cut some second of the run. This gonna cut the few second before the Effigy shoot us all to death, or someone to die during the final boss because it took to much time. You have to understand that this setup and play style is pushed at its limit, and need at the dps everybody can bring to the table to work.

Someone doing these runs without a full exotic zerker set, won't gonna bring the run a couple second longer, its gonna bring the run a coupe minutes longer, because we gonna go behind the line and probable all get kill. This is why, CoF path 1 is the only place when people ask for this kind of group, because every where else, this setup won't work.

View Postbeadnbutter32, on 26 March 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

It's a kind of chicken and egg deal.

You can't run dungeons if  you don't have full exo zerker gear.

You can't afford full exo zerker gear unless you run dungeons.

In actuality if you want to run dungeons, you first have to run Cursed Shore DE's until your eyes bleed in order to buy your full exo zerker outift.  With the average price of zerker gear in the 5 gold and up range your looking at at least 40 gold.  Farming Orr DE;s might net you 1.5 gold an hour so some where around 27 hours will be involved for an average player playing the game 'as intended.'

What are you talking about. There is only CoF path 1 farming that need that. I did dungeon with masterwork gear, with low level character or without any zerker gear and this was just fine. If some people ask for a specific setup in 1% of the game, that mean that 1% of the game need that setup, not all of it.

#22 dawdler

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:54 PM

View Postbeadnbutter32, on 26 March 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

It's a kind of chicken and egg deal.

You can't run dungeons if  you don't have full exo zerker gear.

You can't afford full exo zerker gear unless you run dungeons.

In actuality if you want to run dungeons, you first have to run Cursed Shore DE's until your eyes bleed in order to buy your full exo zerker outift.  With the average price of zerker gear in the 5 gold and up range your looking at at least 40 gold.  Farming Orr DE;s might net you 1.5 gold an hour so some where around 27 hours will be involved for an average player playing the game 'as intended.'
Lulwat?

Assuming you actually played the game instead of having crafted your way up to 80 from scratch, full exotic cost more like 5 gold in total, not counting the trinkets. You should already have most of the materials to craft your armor type to 400 (if you dont, its a minor but worth it cost). Its highly likely that the runes in your armour cost more than the armour itself. You can also get a couple of pieces just from Orr karma gear by the time you are 80. Having a few non-berserker pieces is pretty irrelevant. Like "ZOMG MY BOOTS DOESNT HAVE 25 PRECISION, I AM SOOOO FAIL!!!! I ONLY HAVE 1950 PRECISION INSTEAD OF 1975 PRECISION, INSTA WIPE :( :( :("

Edited by dawdler, 26 March 2013 - 02:57 PM.


#23 Shadow209

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 03:29 PM

You can run dungeons without full exo zerker gear, but not with cof p1 farm groups (1mes/4war). It will probably take you more than 10 minutes for p1, instead of 6, but it's still a nice income. Also depending on your class and skills, zerker stats might not be the best option anyway.
If you want  to run dungeons "normally", you don't need full exo and you don't need full zerker. You will probably need toughness and vitality to survive anyway. That way you can have fun, running dungeons, get gold pretty fast and upgrade your gear.

Some people want as much gold as fast as possible, for example, because they are working on a legendary, so this people not run a random dungeon, but instead, they pick the shortest path and optimize the party to be able to max the income. This requires to optimize the class composition gear and an even the build, for this particular path. Don't expect this group to be the most effective one in any other dungeon, though. Also, if you are farming CoF p1, you should not only know the path, but also know exactely, when you have to use which skill.

Farm-runs aren't meant to be for beginners and you probably don't want to do them, because you won't have fun playing, and having fun is the most important thing. Just play the dungeons you like with some guildies and you're fine.

#24 Loperdos

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:41 PM

View Postdawdler, on 26 March 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

Lulwat?

Assuming you actually played the game instead of having crafted your way up to 80 from scratch, full exotic cost more like 5 gold in total, not counting the trinkets. You should already have most of the materials to craft your armor type to 400 (if you dont, its a minor but worth it cost). Its highly likely that the runes in your armour cost more than the armour itself. You can also get a couple of pieces just from Orr karma gear by the time you are 80. Having a few non-berserker pieces is pretty irrelevant. Like "ZOMG MY BOOTS DOESNT HAVE 25 PRECISION, I AM SOOOO FAIL!!!! I ONLY HAVE 1950 PRECISION INSTEAD OF 1975 PRECISION, INSTA WIPE :( :( :("

Not quite.  Even taking the one of the cheaper exotic sets from the TP, you are still going to run up a decent price tag for a full set.  Let's take Giver's medium set for example (why you would want toughness, healing and boon duration on a medium armor profession is beyond me...but for argument's sake).  All costs are from time of posting and the min sell price (IE, what you would pay if you went and bought it out right now without posting a custom offer).

Giver's Emblazoned Boots (http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/38278) = 1.88g (crafted cost, with TPing mats, 1.80g)
Giver's Emblazoned Coat (http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/38273) = 1.99g (", 1.86g)
Giver's Emblazoned Gloves (http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/38268) = 2.09g (1.81g)
Giver's Emblazoned Helm (http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/38263) = 2.34g (1.83g)
Giver's Emblazoned Pants (http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/38258) = 1.99g (1.85g)
Giver's Emblazoned Shoulders (http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/38253) = 2.04g (1.83g)

Totals= 12.33g (10.98)


For comparision medium Berserker's Exotic set:

Boots (http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/11886) = 4.49g (3.38g)

Coat (http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/11802) = 4.43g (3.42g)

Gloves (http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/11844) = 4.54g (3.38g)

Helm (http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/11970) = 4.35g (3.41g)

Pants (http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/11760) =4.42g (3.43g)

Shoulders (http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/11928) = 4.72g (3.40g)

Totals = 26.95g (20.42g)


To the OP: I'm in agreement with most of the other posters here.  You can run dungeons without a full set of exotics (with the exception of a few paths here or there).  People will post requirements that they think will increase their speed in dungeons, whether or not there is evidence to support said conclusion.  When they ask for full berserkers exotics, it generally means full armor exo berserkers as well as trinkets, with the exception of back item, which seems to be of less importance to some groups.

#25 JulianCasablancas

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 06:30 AM

I have a rare back and a green Cavalier's amulet, otherwise full zerk warrior (my 4th char, made just for CoF1) with 6 Ruby Orbs instead of runes. No one cares if 2 pieces of my gear is not exotic, but if I came in with Knights gear instead I'd be looking at an instakick.

I have no idea why people want to nitpick the CoF1 farm, trying to enter speedfarm groups with non-exotic gear then complaining... there are plenty of groups that don't require zerk war/mes, so please for the love of god join one of those,.

#26 Thaddeuz

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:22 PM

View PostLoperdos, on 26 March 2013 - 10:41 PM, said:

People will post requirements that they think will increase their speed in dungeons, whether or not there is evidence to support said conclusion.

??? Well plenty of video out there showing run of 5-6min with a 1 mesmer/4 warriors group in full exotic (or with 1 mesmer/3 warrior/1 thief). While with a normal group it take between 10-15min.

With good group its 5min vs 10min so double the time = double the income (not exactly since the DR hit you faster when you do more path faster but you get the point).

So i don't know why you say there is no proof.

https://www.youtube....h?v=LwsSAHyhTb0
https://www.youtube....h?v=CNUSwBuCw-E
https://www.youtube....h?v=t3XPMGrGEdI
https://www.youtube....h?v=7VFFzXz4jvA
https://www.youtube....h?v=Is-9HEc0CwY

I think its enough proof that it take less time in a full zerker group.

#27 Coren

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:37 PM

View Postbeadnbutter32, on 26 March 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

It's a kind of chicken and egg deal.

You can't run dungeons if  you don't have full exo zerker gear.

You can't afford full exo zerker gear unless you run dungeons.

In actuality if you want to run dungeons, you first have to run Cursed Shore DE's until your eyes bleed in order to buy your full exo zerker outift.  With the average price of zerker gear in the 5 gold and up range your looking at at least 40 gold.  Farming Orr DE;s might net you 1.5 gold an hour so some where around 27 hours will be involved for an average player playing the game 'as intended.'

Or you make the armor like I did. Dungeons.aren't the only way.

#28 Loperdos

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:49 PM

View PostThaddeuz, on 27 March 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

??? Well plenty of video out there showing run of 5-6min with a 1 mesmer/4 warriors group in full exotic (or with 1 mesmer/3 warrior/1 thief). While with a normal group it take between 10-15min.

With good group its 5min vs 10min so double the time = double the income (not exactly since the DR hit you faster when you do more path faster but you get the point).

So i don't know why you say there is no proof.

https://www.youtube....h?v=LwsSAHyhTb0
https://www.youtube....h?v=CNUSwBuCw-E
https://www.youtube....h?v=t3XPMGrGEdI
https://www.youtube....h?v=7VFFzXz4jvA
https://www.youtube....h?v=Is-9HEc0CwY

I think its enough proof that it take less time in a full zerker group.

Heh.  I should have been more clear.  I didn't say there wasn't proof, I just said that people make the claim whether or not they actually have experience with it being faster or not.  When pugging, there are other variables that come into play that quite certainly effect a speed clear.  I didn't mean that there is no evidence to support a full exo speed clear goes faster than a group that is less well equipped.  What I meant to say is that in a pug situation, as the OP presented it, a full exo speed run could still run into issues, even if they require full exo berserker.

And yes, the videos you posted are quite nice, but there is one additional thing about proof videos and gamers...people aren't going to post the times when they didn't manage to run CoF in 6 min.  They aren't going to post (in general, you may find some exceptions) those times that it took them 20min, even with full exo berserker.  I don't mean that the videos aren't proof, but all they are proof of is that it CAN be done.

And just so my position in the discussion is even more clear, I agree with you.  With a good group full berserker exo runs can clear CoF faster than those without, in general.  But if you are pugging, that one requirement (the good group) is not by any means a sure thing.

#29 Thaddeuz

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:58 PM

View PostLoperdos, on 27 March 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

Heh.  I should have been more clear.  I didn't say there wasn't proof, I just said that people make the claim whether or not they actually have experience with it being faster or not.  When pugging, there are other variables that come into play that quite certainly effect a speed clear.  I didn't mean that there is no evidence to support a full exo speed clear goes faster than a group that is less well equipped.  What I meant to say is that in a pug situation, as the OP presented it, a full exo speed run could still run into issues, even if they require full exo berserker.

And yes, the videos you posted are quite nice, but there is one additional thing about proof videos and gamers...people aren't going to post the times when they didn't manage to run CoF in 6 min.  They aren't going to post (in general, you may find some exceptions) those times that it took them 20min, even with full exo berserker.  I don't mean that the videos aren't proof, but all they are proof of is that it CAN be done.

And just so my position in the discussion is even more clear, I agree with you.  With a good group full berserker exo runs can clear CoF faster than those without, in general.  But if you are pugging, that one requirement (the good group) is not by any means a sure thing.

Ya on that i agree. It never took me 20min to complete CoF with a Zerker group, but it took me 15min sometimes. Once a guys DC just before the room with the switch so we waited 2min after we posted for another 5th. Another time, the guys on the switch took so long I (i'm the mesmer) was downed, someone revived me and the whole group started the boss without their healing skill so we needed to rez a bit. Another time 1 guy was killed just before the acolyte and another one was knockback in the lava. We finished it, but with only 1 guy alive at the end of the acolyte part. They will always have problem during this kind of run. Either someone is not concentrate, someone not that good, my cat jumping on my laps in the middle of the boss (ya that one happened two or three times), someone DCing or quiting or simply bad luck.  But still, this kind of things happen in a normal group too.

#30 Reikou

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 02:19 PM

View PostLoperdos, on 27 March 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

And just so my position in the discussion is even more clear, I agree with you.  With a good group full berserker exo runs can clear CoF faster than those without, in general.  But if you are pugging, that one requirement (the good group) is not by any means a sure thing.

Still better to have only one variable than two.




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