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#1 Betes

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:39 PM

ANet have to do something regarding map completion in WvW.

Let me expose my case that should be the same for a lot of players. I’ve always been a PvE kind of player, but to get the Map completion title we have to go to WvW, anoying i’ve thought at the beginning, but after starting to do WvW i’ve liked a lot and have been done a lot more WvW than PvE, so no problem with that, at least for me.

Problem is i’m at 99% Map comp. for a few weeks now, and why?
Because 2 PoI’s and one Vista are inside a Keep that always are controlled by one side, I’ve been in several attempts to conquer that Keep, but no luck.
We’ve hold the Castle often, but that keep isn’t very attractive to conquer and is very well defended because is the entry point to World map of the other side.

There are several suggestions for this on the forums, like move the PoI’s and Vistas to outside Keeps/Castles or promote some kind of map rotation, whatever but something must be done, or some players can take months to be able to achieve this title.

Paying a hand full of gems to change world do the PoI’s/Vistas and pay again to return to
your home world isn’t a viable solution at least for me.

#2 Pyrea

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:47 PM

Totally agree with this. I have been fortunate in finding all the POIs in WvW, sometimes best time is just after the map revolves in the early hours of the morning where your world controls all points.

Another solution is to start WvW explore early and keep a close eye on which team controls what.

Highly frustrating is the term here but once its done, a smile shines :)

#3 heatrr

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:48 PM

Umm, no, disagree. How about define "a lot of players."

Anyhow, you, as with others seeking to actually get 100% map completion, need to complete the map completion as it is just like some of us had to do and that means trudging through WvW and all the hassle that comes with it. Not only have some of us done 100% map completion once through WvW, we have done it twice or more. Looking for an easy way out is simply a by-product of this generation and the last.....frakin' sad in my opinion. Work for it, like others have; deal with it, like others have.

#4 Mura

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:57 PM

I have 100% world complete on one character.  Knowing that I would have to rely on the rotation of color that my server is, I kept on eye on the wvw maps from the beginning of my world complete mission.  I had the wvw parts done before the pve part.

For those of you not familiar with wvw, when the wvw battle resets on Friday night, your server is assigned a color (out of blue, green, or red).  Looking at the Eternal Battlegrounds map, each server gets 1/3 of the map at the start.  If you need a vista/PoI in a color we don't control, wait a week, see if your server has a different color this time.  Eventually, you get the color you needed, and you can get your PoIs.

#5 Darkobra

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 01:04 PM

View Postheatrr, on 28 March 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

Umm, no, disagree. How about define "a lot of players."

Anyhow, you, as with others seeking to actually get 100% map completion, need to complete the map completion as it is just like some of us had to do and that means trudging through WvW and all the hassle that comes with it. Not only have some of us done 100% map completion once through WvW, we have done it twice or more. Looking for an easy way out is simply a by-product of this generation and the last.....frakin' sad in my opinion. Work for it, like others have; deal with it, like others have.

Just because some of us had to do it doesn't mean it was right the first time. Why should WvW be a part of world exploration when it isn't part of the world?

Also, it's 8% total of the entire map completion. Are you saying that the other 92% was redundant and only that 8% matters? Since the rest is the "easy way out."

#6 swordmagic

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 01:15 PM

View PostDarkobra, on 28 March 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

Just because some of us had to do it doesn't mean it was right the first time. Why should WvW be a part of world exploration when it isn't part of the world?

Also, it's 8% total of the entire map completion. Are you saying that the other 92% was redundant and only that 8% matters? Since the rest is the "easy way out."

Well i know how u feel.
I had 99,9 % in november and had to check daily to get my last three points which lasted until the end of december.
All the advice i can give u is to log in at odd hours, like late at night/early in the morning when the server changes.
Chances are u can get ur completion than easily.

Another way is to do WvWvW and shout out that u would like to attack a certain point.
"Act" like ur a commander and with a little luck u can get the zergs to that point ; worked well for me some times.

#7 Pyrea

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 01:19 PM

View Postswordmagic, on 28 March 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

Another way is to do WvW and shout out that u would like to attack a certain point.
"Act" like ur a commander and with a little luck u can get the zergs to that point ; worked well for me some times.

May try this on my current char I am working on :)

Funnily enough I actually enjoy the "challenge" of mapping in WvW as usually I am on my own and have to sneak around. Many times have I been mobbed by a group who seemed to appear out of nowhere lol and then the cursing starts, subsides quickly though ;)

#8 Betes

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 01:25 PM

View PostMura, on 28 March 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

For those of you not familiar with wvw, when the wvw battle resets on Friday night, your server is assigned a color (out of blue, green, or red).  Looking at the Eternal Battlegrounds map, each server gets 1/3 of the map at the start.  If you need a vista/PoI in a color we don't control, wait a week, see if your server has a different color this time.  Eventually, you get the color you needed, and you can get your PoIs.
Aren't the colors assigned based on ranking from previous week?
As my server as been consistently on top, we allways get the same color, at least for the last 4-5 weeks....
It would be enough if the colors rotate between servers at each battle reset.

In response to heatrr:
I don't want an easy way to do it, i just want a way to do it.
Easy was when you can change servers for free, so all you have to do is jump to the server you need, and move between PoI's and Vistas that your server owns.

#9 infisio

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 01:28 PM

View Postheatrr, on 28 March 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

Umm, no, disagree. How about define "a lot of players."

Anyhow, you, as with others seeking to actually get 100% map completion, need to complete the map completion as it is just like some of us had to do and that means trudging through WvW and all the hassle that comes with it. Not only have some of us done 100% map completion once through WvW, we have done it twice or more. Looking for an easy way out is simply a by-product of this generation and the last.....frakin' sad in my opinion. Work for it, like others have; deal with it, like others have.

Well, it's not actually equal for all players. It really depends on what tier you are in and how the servers are performing.  When I got World Completion, my server was in the Green Tier for over 2 months.  We kicked the butts of the other teams all the time, but somehow never managed to capture the Blue and Red Garrisons.  I checked WvW morning, noon and night for months and finally discovered the few 15 minute times in which we held those locations.  I couldn't rely on map rotation switching us to a red or blue map.  LOL, now that I have WC we've actually switched maps several times and it's been easier to get the POIs on another character.

Point being, if you are in a tier that remains really stable, then those players may never get the change to get certain POIs.  If the maps rotated color every week on a schedule, then all players would have an equal chance of getting WC, but right now not everyone has a fair shake.  Just because this is the way the system is built right now, and other players had to suffer, doesn't mean it should stay that way.

#10 Mura

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 01:46 PM

View PostBetes, on 28 March 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

Aren't the colors assigned based on ranking from previous week?
As my server as been consistently on top, we allways get the same color, at least for the last 4-5 weeks....
It would be enough if the colors rotate between servers at each battle reset.

ah, you are correct!  I just checked the wiki
http://wiki.guildwar...ching_of_worlds

"Each matching (or tier) contains 3 worlds. Within each tier, the highest ranked world will play as green, the second highest ranked world as blue and the third highest ranked world as red."

I guess I got lucky enough that my world rotated once in a while.  Over time, that will likely be the case with almost every server, I would think.

I believe people's greatest frustration with world completion is because they save wvw for last.  Don't do that, and you'd be better off.

#11 Betes

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 02:44 PM

View Postinfisio, on 28 March 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

Well, it's not actually equal for all players. It really depends on what tier you are in and how the servers are performing.  When I got World Completion, my server was in the Green Tier for over 2 months.  We kicked the butts of the other teams all the time, but somehow never managed to capture the Blue and Red Garrisons.  I checked WvW morning, noon and night for months and finally discovered the few 15 minute times in which we held those locations.  I couldn't rely on map rotation switching us to a red or blue map.  LOL, now that I have WC we've actually switched maps several times and it's been easier to get the POIs on another character.

Point being, if you are in a tier that remains really stable, then those players may never get the change to get certain POIs.  If the maps rotated color every week on a schedule, then all players would have an equal chance of getting WC, but right now not everyone has a fair shake.  Just because this is the way the system is built right now, and other players had to suffer, doesn't mean it should stay that way.

Precisely what is happening on my server currently, we hold the castle most of the time but getting blue garrison no chance, and i've tried on different hours and days. For several (>5 that i remember) weeks the 3 servers maintain the ranks, so we are always green.
I think the players on the red server are having a lot of problems to get the PoI's and vistas inside the castle, cause i don't remember to see them holding him.

#12 Daesu

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:35 PM

This topic has been talked to death: http://www.guildwars...orld-completion

I am just glad that I used the free world transfer then to get around the WvW limitations and got my star.




#13 garull

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:43 PM

View Postheatrr, on 28 March 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

Umm, no, disagree. How about define "a lot of players."

Anyhow, you, as with others seeking to actually get 100% map completion, need to complete the map completion as it is just like some of us had to do and that means trudging through WvW and all the hassle that comes with it. Not only have some of us done 100% map completion once through WvW, we have done it twice or more. Looking for an easy way out is simply a by-product of this generation and the last.....frakin' sad in my opinion. Work for it, like others have; deal with it, like others have.

I challenge you to join Blackgate or Sanctum of Rall and try to take JQ's lowlands keep in EB

Edited by garull, 28 March 2013 - 06:43 PM.


#14 pumpkin pie

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:12 PM

Just fine as it is, I am at 99% too. you get it when you get it. those player who do not want to help with WvW don't deserve to get map completion because they did not defend it (not talking about you OP.) I am saying it in general. I got the vistas and poi inside the keep that is 99% of the time control by another server.

#15 Daesu

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:17 PM

View Postpumpkin pie, on 28 March 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

Just fine as it is, I am at 99% too. you get it when you get it. those player who do not want to help with WvW don't deserve to get map completion because they did not defend it (not talking about you OP.) I am saying it in general. I got the vistas and poi inside the keep that is 99% of the time control by another server.

As long as everyone has a choice to pvp or not.  I just can't stand it when people are being forced to play a certain way.  Everyone should be able to play the game the way he wants to, not THE WAY that is forced upon him.

That said, granted that many have argued that map completion is optional, but I only wish that there is a clearer separation between pvp and pve titles, in this case, so that people can better choose how they want to play the game.  I wouldn't have gone for this title if I knew beforehand that it requires pvp.

Edited by Daesu, 28 March 2013 - 07:24 PM.


#16 J Dawgg

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:34 PM

Nobody is forcing to get 100% WC therefore no one is forcing you to WvW. The only real reason besides the title/star to get 100% is for a legendary, and if you want a legendary you can't expect to do it any way you feel without having to do a bit of every aspect of the game.

#17 Daesu

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:53 PM

View PostJ Dawgg, on 28 March 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

Nobody is forcing to get 100% WC therefore no one is forcing you to WvW. The only real reason besides the title/star to get 100% is for a legendary, and if you want a legendary you can't expect to do it any way you feel without having to do a bit of every aspect of the game.

Legendaries are so far out there for me, I doubt I would ever get one in the near future.  World completion is just a personal achievement for me.  Fortunately for me there was a way out, without pvping, using the free server transfers then.  But that doesn't mean that I like its current design.  You are right that map completion is, strictly speaking, optional but by the time a pveer like me realized that I need to play wvw for the last 10%, I would have came a long way into achieving the title and it would be such a waste to give up on it.

I wish it would be clearer that the title actually requires pvp.  As it is now, unless the player checks the wiki beforehand (which was not very complete when I first started pursing this), it feels like a scam to trick pveers into playing wvw.  I prefer that titles should be clear and upfront on their requirements.

Right now the tooltip for the "Been There, Done That" title, when you hover your mouse cursor over it, only says "seeking Zhaitan's corruption in every corner of Tyria".

Edited by Daesu, 28 March 2013 - 08:27 PM.


#18 Fizzypop

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:29 AM

View Postheatrr, on 28 March 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

Umm, no, disagree. How about define "a lot of players."

Anyhow, you, as with others seeking to actually get 100% map completion, need to complete the map completion as it is just like some of us had to do and that means trudging through WvW and all the hassle that comes with it. Not only have some of us done 100% map completion once through WvW, we have done it twice or more. Looking for an easy way out is simply a by-product of this generation and the last.....frakin' sad in my opinion. Work for it, like others have; deal with it, like others have.

will people stop saying this? The current generation is like 12 or turning 13 this year. It has nothing to do with them as the majority of GW2 players aren't 13. The generation you are referring to is from 1980 to 2000 which I'd say most of this forum fits into. No, it isn't true of that generation either. Every generation has it's annoying members example hippies. They weren't born out of the 80s my friend.

View PostDarkobra, on 28 March 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

Just because some of us had to do it doesn't mean it was right the first time. Why should WvW be a part of world exploration when it isn't part of the world?

Also, it's 8% total of the entire map completion. Are you saying that the other 92% was redundant and only that 8% matters? Since the rest is the "easy way out."

I have to wonder if they even realize that WvW takes place in the mists which isn't on the actual world of Tyria...it makes no sense.

Edited by Fizzypop, 29 March 2013 - 01:34 AM.


#19 pumpkin pie

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 05:57 AM

View PostDaesu, on 28 March 2013 - 07:17 PM, said:

As long as everyone has a choice to pvp or not.  I just can't stand it when people are being forced to play a certain way.  Everyone should be able to play the game the way he wants to, not THE WAY that is forced upon him.

That said, granted that many have argued that map completion is optional, but I only wish that there is a clearer separation between pvp and pve titles, in this case, so that people can better choose how they want to play the game.  I wouldn't have gone for this title if I knew beforehand that it requires pvp.

To me, WvW is not PvP, it is more of a CORPG, players are not forced to play in a certain way because these maps are label as WvW, to me, they are extention of PvE, and the enemies, beside being Hyleks and Dredges, are operated by other humans. In the lower end maps we have the extremely predictable AI enemies, some are even on timer, when you go into WvW they become a little bit unpredictable, sometime very predictable.

#20 Daesu

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 07:40 AM

View Postpumpkin pie, on 29 March 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

To me, WvW is not PvP, it is more of a CORPG, players are not forced to play in a certain way because these maps are label as WvW, to me, they are extention of PvE, and the enemies, beside being Hyleks and Dredges, are operated by other humans. In the lower end maps we have the extremely predictable AI enemies, some are even on timer, when you go into WvW they become a little bit unpredictable, sometime very predictable.

Then I would have to disagree with you because PvP stands for "Player-vs-Player".  Therefore WvW is a form of PvP.

Even though there are some monsters in the map, you can't deny that the main activities and focus in WvW are still PvP focused.

Edited by Daesu, 29 March 2013 - 07:43 AM.


#21 Perm Shadow Form

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 08:24 AM

Stuck on 99%.  Have like 4 Vistas and 3 POIs left across 3 WvW maps.

Is it hard? No, but sure as hell requires some time, and luck.
We we're taking Garrison and the final wall was below 5%, then a huge ass zerg came by and completely slaughtered us. Of course after that everyone quit and we were outnumbered, I guess in another week or two...

Oh, and my server has the same color for 2 weeks already now.

#22 dzanikken

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 08:33 AM

I know exactly how you 99%-ers feel. Been stuck for like 6 weeks now.

Luckily, Gandara is getting the blue map next week and I'll finally be able to complete the world map. It's been frustrating to say the least.

#23 Cake is Cake

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:46 AM

WvW completion is inherently flawed in that there's no realistic "legit" way to cap the enemy keep in Eternal.  Tell me, how many of you have capped Overlook, veloka. or Lowlands without the enemy being severely outmanned?

99% of people get these when their server happens to be that color, or their server is exploiting a coverage gap the other server has.  Are these people deserving of it?

#24 Killyox

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:32 PM

This topic has been beaten to death countless times.

Each ended with WvW staying and ANet repeated numerous times what is their reasoning. Use search function or google it.

No one said you HAVE TO have 100% map.It's just a bonus.

#25 pumpkin pie

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:58 PM

I don't consider getting the very hard to get skill point or point of interest in WvW any different then getting 1000+ tokens for a suit of armor.  or collecting stacks and stacks of X ingredients for a legendary weapon.  I guess this is yet again, an opinion issue. So, to each their own.  However, I do think in my humble opinion 100% map completion is way more easier than getting a legendary weapon

#26 beadnbutter32

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:16 PM

It's a sad comment on the pathetic state of this games pvp when the game has to force pve players to do pvp.

It just goes to show how awful this games pvpis, when the only way it can entice a large portion of players into pvp zones is by forcing them through various achivement requirements.

I am surprised they didn't include some POIs in spvp as well.

Pvp sucks in this game, and no amount of adding forced pvp entry to achievements is going to change that.

Edited by beadnbutter32, 29 March 2013 - 01:16 PM.


#27 Killyox

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:23 PM

View Postbeadnbutter32, on 29 March 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

It's a sad comment on the pathetic state of this games pvp when the game has to force pve players to do pvp.

It just goes to show how awful this games pvpis, when the only way it can entice a large portion of players into pvp zones is by forcing them through various achivement requirements.

I am surprised they didn't include some POIs in spvp as well.

Pvp sucks in this game, and no amount of adding forced pvp entry to achievements is going to change that.

WvW is actually thriving a lot. ANet wanted wvw to be just a casual activity and to their surprise it beat anything there is in GW2 atm. That has also been plan (map completion in wvw) from beta so not like SOTG had any impact on it.

#28 Darkobra

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 02:13 PM

View PostKillyox, on 29 March 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

This topic has been beaten to death countless times.

Each ended with WvW staying and ANet repeated numerous times what is their reasoning. Use search function or google it.

No one said you HAVE TO have 100% map.It's just a bonus.

All of that is terrible reasoning. Let's start with "google it." It was difficult for you to say that their reasoning was that they wanted to rope players into WvW? Or did you legitimately forget the reasoning?

Instead of telling you to look up the real responses in the past thread, I'm going to educate you.

Now let's move on to the actual reason ArenaNet gave us. WvW is thriving, as you say. So why do they need to advertise it to players at all? We knew it was there. Our monthly achievements up until November/December dragged us there. I have friends that bought the game purely FOR WvW. It isn't a lesser-known aspect of the game.

Also, do the world explorers or people in jump puzzles actively help with the keeps? Or are they too far North getting that skill point done to even get there? Instead they're taking up slots from the real WvW players that play in guilds.

And the old "Nobody said you HAD to do it!" Nobody told you to read this response to the end. Nobody told you to sign up to these forums. Nobody told you to even buy the game. You can't use an extreme to finalise something with many variables that affects many people far different from yourself, especially in a casual game.

If I want a legendary, I do have to do it. If I want the star next to my name, I do need to finish it. There are clear incentives for doing it. The problem is what needs to be done for these rewards has nothing to do with PvE at all and is affecting BOTH sides of the community.

Their original reasoning may have held truth in August. This is almost 8 months later. We all know about WvW and if we'll enjoy it or not.

I still, to this day, find it amazing that people that claim to have independent thought cling on to everything a company says as gospel. Although I suppose that's exactly how companies thrive; blind loyalty.

#29 Killyox

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 02:31 PM

View PostDarkobra, on 29 March 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

All of that is terrible reasoning. Let's start with "google it." It was difficult for you to say that their reasoning was that they wanted to rope players into WvW? Or did you legitimately forget the reasoning?

Instead of telling you to look up the real responses in the past thread, I'm going to educate you.

Now let's move on to the actual reason ArenaNet gave us. WvW is thriving, as you say. So why do they need to advertise it to players at all? We knew it was there. Our monthly achievements up until November/December dragged us there. I have friends that bought the game purely FOR WvW. It isn't a lesser-known aspect of the game.

Also, do the world explorers or people in jump puzzles actively help with the keeps? Or are they too far North getting that skill point done to even get there? Instead they're taking up slots from the real WvW players that play in guilds.

And the old "Nobody said you HAD to do it!" Nobody told you to read this response to the end. Nobody told you to sign up to these forums. Nobody told you to even buy the game. You can't use an extreme to finalise something with many variables that affects many people far different from yourself, especially in a casual game.

If I want a legendary, I do have to do it. If I want the star next to my name, I do need to finish it. There are clear incentives for doing it. The problem is what needs to be done for these rewards has nothing to do with PvE at all and is affecting BOTH sides of the community.

Their original reasoning may have held truth in August. This is almost 8 months later. We all know about WvW and if we'll enjoy it or not.

I still, to this day, find it amazing that people that claim to have independent thought cling on to everything a company says as gospel. Although I suppose that's exactly how companies thrive; blind loyalty.

Why would I need to say why they did it if you can google it and see it in entirity and with source provided?

You know there are people that got into WvW because of map completion. There are those who detest it and there are those who like it.

As for "nobody told you to". It's fact. You do not have to do it. You don't lose much. I have 100% map and didn't mind WvW even though i barely play it.

Thing is that map completion is achievement. It is not an achievement if you want to make it easier. This particular achievement requires WvW. You can ignore it if you don't like it. Simple as that. You can't please everyone. There will always be people of different opinion and likes. In your case you don't have to like WvW but hey, you don't have to do it either. It's just a title and 2 Gifts of Exploration. Gifts are used for legendaries which at least in theory are supposed to display knowledge of every part of the game (though that went to hell with purchasable legendaries).

In the end. You do not lose anything by not doing it. Life is about choices. Make your own here. To finish it or not.

If you want a legendary you only need to do it for legendary requiring those gifts and again, legendaries are meant to display that you took part in every field game has to offer. Not just PvE or just PvP or just trading or exploring. Again, you do not have to have legendary. I don't either and I decided I will not pursue it. I don't feel like i lost anything at all.

I don't cling to what ANet says but making 50x the same thread will not change it. Apparently it works for them and they are aware not everyone can be satisfied.

As someone who doesn't do WvW almost at all I don't mind 100% world completion requiring it (even though I have 100% map).

Blind Loyalty? Who? I am not a fanboy. Had a break from GW2 and ANet only made 10€ outside of game purchase out of me at the start. Since then i bought everything with in-game gold.

RIGHT BACK AT YOU.

I still find it funny to this day that when someone finds other person disagrees with him he uses the "fanboy, blind loyalty" card.

Because people can never have different opinion than you, right? Right?

Edited by Killyox, 29 March 2013 - 02:33 PM.


#30 Cake is Cake

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 02:48 PM

Saying "you don't have to do it" does not mean that it isn't flawed




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