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What is to come of Cantha?


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#1 Straight Trill

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 03:34 PM

I heard the other day that we will not be getting a factions expansion. Evidently, because the company who bought out anet finds it offensive. Is this true? Also I heard that "The Great Collapse" in Divinity's was the Can than District but that company then got offended and they sisnt have time to change it so they threw that in.

Any info/thoughts?

#2 Digilodger

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 04:26 PM

Meh, if GW2 do well and there's money to be make, Cantha would come.  I can't see a company like ANET or NCsoft refuse profits.

The question is . . . would GW2 still do well a year or two from now?

#3 Draino

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 04:41 PM

Cantha was my favorite. I hope we get Cantha here, but I doubt we will, from what we've read. :(

#4 XSevSpreeX

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 04:42 PM

So Cantha was offensive and Elona wasn't? Doesn't make much sense in today's society.

#5 Porkchop Sandwiches

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 05:28 PM

I can think of plenty of games that have an Asian themed culture. I really hope this isn't true. Do we have any articles/links for this?

#6 BrettM

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 05:44 PM

Basically the offense is that Cantha blends elements derived from different real-world Asian cultures. There are those in the east who find it jarring to see, for example, NPCs with different naming styles mixed together, or a mix of architectural styles. The Canthan section of DR was already developed when ANet got the word, leaving them with no time to do more than replace it with the Collapse. Probably the only way we'll ever get to see Cantha itself is if ANet can invent a kind of generic fantasy Asian culture that will have little resemblance to Cantha As We Know It. (Sounds like an impossible task to me, but that's why I'll never earn the big bucks as an ANet game designer. :))

There is a thread around somewhere that discussed this topic, maybe 4-6 months ago.

Edited by BrettM, 24 April 2013 - 05:46 PM.


#7 ShezuTsukai

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 05:49 PM

You should search for the several previous threads where Cantha is discussed.

I just can't do it again... too... painful... ;-)

#8 Draino

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 05:49 PM

http://www.guildwars...n-guild-wars-2/

#9 Mr_Finesse

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 05:51 PM

Thread on the official forums: https://forum-en.gui...humanity/page/4

Personally, I look at the two posts by Josh Foreman as the most accurate way to look at this topic.  Basically, ANet doesn't know what's going to happen.

Quote

I certainly don’t know where, when, or how the decision was made. I’m just a map artist. So I’m not in a position to critique it. I also don’t know the extent of the decision. For all I know it was some producer in Korea who doesn’t work there any more and the next time it’s brought up there will be no problem. Or maybe there will be one or two tweaks that will fix the problem. Who knows?"


He also goes on to say that of all the gaming companies he's worked for in the past, working under NCSoft has been very free flowing.  Meaning, ANet is given a lot of artistic license to make their own decisions and that NCSoft is willing to work with them on certain things.

Edited by Mr_Finesse, 24 April 2013 - 05:53 PM.


#10 Fizzypop

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 05:56 PM

NCsoft bought anet in 2002. Factions was released in 2006...obviously they didn't find it offensive at the time.

View PostMr_Finesse, on 24 April 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

Thread on the official forums: https://forum-en.gui...humanity/page/4

Personally, I look at the two posts by Josh Foreman as the most accurate way to look at this topic.  Basically, ANet doesn't know what's going to happen.



He also goes on to say that of all the gaming companies he's worked for in the past, working under NCSoft has been very free flowing.  Meaning, ANet is given a lot of artistic license to make their own decisions and that NCSoft is willing to work with them on certain things.

lol awesome.

Edited by Fizzypop, 24 April 2013 - 06:00 PM.


#11 Porkchop Sandwiches

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 06:55 PM

Thanks for the links. Well, I replied on the official forum with my 2 cents. The more people that post about it the better.

Edited by Porkchop Sandwiches, 24 April 2013 - 06:55 PM.


#12 FoxBat

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 09:17 PM

It was Anet's own focus testing that nuked the Cantha district, not some NCSoft big-wig. And yes, GW1 did not last long in Asia, though I don't know how much of that was Factions' fault.

#13 Jetjordan

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 09:21 PM

View PostFoxBat, on 24 April 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

It was Anet's own focus testing that nuked the Cantha district, not some NCSoft big-wig. And yes, GW1 did not last long in Asia, though I don't know how much of that was Factions' fault.

if you look at what is successful in Asian markets Gw1 at its core was not going to be a success from a design or gameplay standpoint.

#14 matsif

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 10:50 PM

like half of the tyrian continent that is shown when you open the map is still locked from player interaction, yet you want them to go across the ocean? sorry, I want all the far shiverpeaks, verdant forest, maguuma wastes, isle of janthir, magus falls, ring of fire, crystal desert, ancient dwarflands, and blood legion homelands, and other half of orr unlocked before they even think about cantha.

cantha is going to be boring anyways, all the stuff that was interesting (jade sea and echovald forest) all are back to normal now in the lore.  No Kurzicks or Luxons, just an emperor and his people.  There is nothing special going on down there and no reason to visit.  What's going on in Elona is much more interesting and actually has a reason to be discovered what with Palawa Joko and Kralkatorrik being in the area.

#15 ben911993

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 11:09 PM

View Postmatsif, on 24 April 2013 - 10:50 PM, said:

like half of the tyrian continent that is shown when you open the map is still locked from player interaction, yet you want them to go across the ocean? sorry, I want all the far shiverpeaks, verdant forest, maguuma wastes, isle of janthir, magus falls, ring of fire, crystal desert, ancient dwarflands, and blood legion homelands, and other half of orr unlocked before they even think about cantha.

cantha is going to be boring anyways, all the stuff that was interesting (jade sea and echovald forest) all are back to normal now in the lore.  No Kurzicks or Luxons, just an emperor and his people.  There is nothing special going on down there and no reason to visit.  What's going on in Elona is much more interesting and actually has a reason to be discovered what with Palawa Joko and Kralkatorrik being in the area.

Pretty much this. I'd prefer to see the rest of the continent of Tyria explored. The Charr/Blood Legion homelands, SE Shiverpeaks, western Kryta and Maguuma, and especially the Crystal Desert. After a bit of that has been done, maybe we can go visit Elona and deal with Palawa Joko. But I can't say I give much of a hoot for Cantha. =S

#16 Snapalope

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 03:16 PM

I started playing GW with Factions.  I went back to Prophecies and to Elona after spending aroudn a year only in Factions.  All my characers were Canthan and I would love to visit my home someday...

#17 lmaonade

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 10:43 AM

View PostXSevSpreeX, on 24 April 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

So Cantha was offensive and Elona wasn't? Doesn't make much sense in today's society.

Cantha was offensive because the Company who owns Arenanet is Asian

#18 Xunlai Agent

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:16 AM

Can somebody start a petition that people who want Cantha to return can sign?

#19 zwei2stein

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 01:26 PM

View Postlmaonade, on 26 April 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

Cantha was offensive because the Company who owns Arenanet is Asian

A bit of repost:

Imagine if some asian company decided to make game in WW2-like universe, but they got it wrong and:

* Gave ss-like officers davids star insignia and polish names
* Made scenes which remind people of firebombing dresden, but with USA-alikes being bombers and Brittish-alikes being bombed.
* Made russian-like emblem pentagram instead of red star and made them heroes of the game, freeing world from usa/germany/poland axis of evil.
* Portrayed gulags as ran by allies  and concentration camps as just tent camps of war refugees and outpost in game.

All that with names nearly directly from history books. Dechau Gulag ran by execution-thirsty General Patten for example.

Imagine how happy western owner would be with that franchise and how well it would sell.

#20 Porkchop Sandwiches

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 10:12 PM

View Postzwei2stein, on 26 April 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

A bit of repost:

Imagine if some asian company decided to make game in WW2-like universe, but they got it wrong and:

* Gave ss-like officers davids star insignia and polish names
* Made scenes which remind people of firebombing dresden, but with USA-alikes being bombers and Brittish-alikes being bombed.
* Made russian-like emblem pentagram instead of red star and made them heroes of the game, freeing world from usa/germany/poland axis of evil.
* Portrayed gulags as ran by allies  and concentration camps as just tent camps of war refugees and outpost in game.

All that with names nearly directly from history books. Dechau Gulag ran by execution-thirsty General Patten for example.

Imagine how happy western owner would be with that franchise and how well it would sell.

I totally understand the reason and I don't want Anet to offend anyone, either. I know I am showing some ignorance here, but what was offensive about the original Cantha? The only complaint I can remember reading before was that Kaineng City was shown as poor/congested (although during GW1 there was a plague going on). With some creative art changes and 250 years since GW1 I'm sure the GW2 team could make it work.

I'm mostly disappointed because Cantha was a huge part of the story in GW1. :(

#21 lmaonade

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 10:29 PM

View PostPorkchop Sandwiches, on 26 April 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

I totally understand the reason and I don't want Anet to offend anyone, either. I know I am showing some ignorance here, but what was offensive about the original Cantha? The only complaint I can remember reading before was that Kaineng City was shown as poor/congested (although during GW1 there was a plague going on). With some creative art changes and 250 years since GW1 I'm sure the GW2 team could make it work.

I'm mostly disappointed because Cantha was a huge part of the story in GW1. :(

nothing was offensive, NCsoft is just being stupid as usual, but that doesn't change the fact that whatever NCsoft perceives will be reflected in GW2

#22 Culture Shock

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:11 PM

For those who have never spoken with an ArenaNet worker in person I would like to say that this thread is 95% speculation.  The other 5% is the actual post from a real Anet artist, and he said he didn't know.  What I can tell you is that NC soft distribution was on the very first GW box and I still have mine, so to say that an entire expansion was developed and published by NCsoft was considered offensive and trashed is really, really pushing the imagination.

If and when Cantha returns It will be "re-imagined" in much the same way that Tyria was.  Most of the old stuff we remember such as land marks are underwater or very well "ruined".  Which is understandable after 250 years of wear and tear, not to mention the wars that have taken place.  Exactly "how" Cantha will look after 250 years is up to the artists and writers at Anet.  The name Cantha is spoken lots of times by NPC's in the game especially in Divinity Reach.

Films and games are created everyday with an asian themes by American companies such as Avatar: The Last Air Bender (cartoon series).  NC soft is and has been a Korean company that backs some "American" game companies.

Edited by Culture Shock, 26 April 2013 - 11:12 PM.


#23 aspi

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 06:03 PM

View Postlmaonade, on 26 April 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

Cantha was offensive because the Company who owns Arenanet is Asian
I did not see any offensive things in Cantha, but I wasnt looking hard enough maybe :/

More likely reason would be the asian themed GW2 release right now in Asia, profit > most things...

#24 Gerroh

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 06:13 PM

So, wait, Cantha won't be around because some ninnies are offended by it?
1) I find it hard to believe unless there's an official statement from Anet. I haven't bothered to actually research this, 'cause I don't care much, so go ahead and give the direct source if it's true.
2) At the same time, I find it believable because Western society tends to bend over whenever someone is "offended". Could you imagine if some Krytans enslaved a few Elonians? People would go apeshit.

I'm torn about this, because while I loathe Cantha and the story that brought us into it in GW1, I also don't want it to be excluded just because some wanks find it "offensive".

But now that I think of it, I find the beaver emblem standing on its hind legs and waving to be quite offensive. As a Canadian, I believe beavers should be represented exactly as they are, especially in a fantasy game, and I'd like for the offensive beaver emblem to be removed.

#25 I'm Squirrel

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 06:21 PM

View PostGerroh, on 27 April 2013 - 06:13 PM, said:

So, wait, Cantha won't be around because some ninnies are offended by it?
1) I find it hard to believe unless there's an official statement from Anet. I haven't bothered to actually research this, 'cause I don't care much, so go ahead and give the direct source if it's true.
2) At the same time, I find it believable because Western society tends to bend over whenever someone is "offended". Could you imagine if some Krytans enslaved a few Elonians? People would go apeshit.

I'm torn about this, because while I loathe Cantha and the story that brought us into it in GW1, I also don't want it to be excluded just because some wanks find it "offensive".

But now that I think of it, I find the beaver emblem standing on its hind legs and waving to be quite offensive. As a Canadian, I believe beavers should be represented exactly as they are, especially in a fantasy game, and I'd like for the offensive beaver emblem to be removed.

there was an official statement on this a while ago. I read it myself on the official forums, I think it was a post from jonathan something.. one of the devs.

#26 Bohya

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 07:04 PM

View Postmatsif, on 24 April 2013 - 10:50 PM, said:

I want all the far shiverpeaks, verdant forest, maguuma wastes, isle of janthir, magus falls, ring of fire, crystal desert, ancient dwarflands, and blood legion homelands, and other half of orr unlocked before they even think about cantha.

Cantha was my favourite continent from Guild Wars, but I agree wholeheartedly with your statement. I've always wanted to see 100% of the Tyrian map filled with zones right to the very corners. There's all these named regions such as Isles of Janthir, the Woodland Cascades, and the Elon River which were present in Guild Wars but we never had a chance to visit. Only a small fraction of the map they have presented to us in Guild Wars 2 you can actually go to. There's so much room for expansion and I've always wanted to know what lies outside the walls. They need to fill out what they have put on the table before they try to open up a whole new world altogether.

The game has been out for the best part of a year now, and I find it somewhat annoying that they haven't delivered on their promise that they would pump out high quality content more often than any subscription based game (can't be bothered finding the quote). They have introduced to us no major zones as of yet (and don't call that Karka zone anything to go by) and any form of world expansion has ground to a halt. They have a big blank canvas to work with, for Celestia's sake!!

#27 JulianCasablancas

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 12:14 AM

As an Asian how the ♥♥♥♥ was Cantha or Elona offensive? We had "Europe", "Asia" and "Africa". Each one had certain themes from their real life counterparts (including Tyria aka Europe) so I really don't see how they broke any additional rules. It would really f*ck the game lorewise if we don't get the other 2 continents now. Think of all the new races plus 250+ years of change on the continents!

I guess companies have to cover their asses though, it only takes a few big lawsuits to hit the profits substantially.

#28 Flaming_Foxx

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 01:08 AM

View PostJulianCasablancas, on 28 April 2013 - 12:14 AM, said:

As an Asian how the ♥♥♥♥ was Cantha or Elona offensive? We had "Europe", "Asia" and "Africa". Each one had certain themes from their real life counterparts (including Tyria aka Europe) so I really don't see how they broke any additional rules. It would really f*ck the game lorewise if we don't get the other 2 continents now. Think of all the new races plus 250+ years of change on the continents!

I guess companies have to cover their asses though, it only takes a few big lawsuits to hit the profits substantially.

Except there won't really be new races. Cantha kicked out anyone that wasn't human, so it's either crumbled to the ground or just full of humans, and Elona was taken over by Palawa Joko, meaning that there are a whole lot of undead roaming around the place. If you meant new playable races, not going to happen xD.

Honestly I do hope we get Cantha at some point and I think we will, but it's a few years off. Anet have officially said quite a few times now that there is no work being actively done on an expansion at this time. So it stands to reason that any expansions (and I'm sure they will release a proper expansion eventually) is a few years off now. I think it's likely they were just told/decided not to do Cantha at this point in time and that it is a definite possibility later on.

#29 Imenta

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 02:30 AM

View Postzwei2stein, on 26 April 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

A bit of repost:

Imagine if some asian company decided to make game in WW2-like universe, but they got it wrong and:

* Gave ss-like officers davids star insignia and polish names
* Made scenes which remind people of firebombing dresden, but with USA-alikes being bombers and Brittish-alikes being bombed.
* Made russian-like emblem pentagram instead of red star and made them heroes of the game, freeing world from usa/germany/poland axis of evil.
* Portrayed gulags as ran by allies  and concentration camps as just tent camps of war refugees and outpost in game.

All that with names nearly directly from history books. Dechau Gulag ran by execution-thirsty General Patten for example.

Imagine how happy western owner would be with that franchise and how well it would sell.

Except Godwinning about this is absurd, and Cantha wasn't doing anything remotely equivalent to throwing Jews into jackboots.

Frankly, GW1, GW2, and every game that includes any fantasy elements whatsoever already does exactly what the purported problem is.

But hey, that's not a problem, because nobody cares what anyone descended from one of the myriad of European cultures that have been blindly mashed together thinks.   We're not allowed to be offended, you see.   Though to be fair, anybody who gets offended over fantasy (that merely draws on history for inspiration) not being historically accurate... really needs psychiatric help.

Edited by Imenta, 28 April 2013 - 02:32 AM.


#30 Porkchop Sandwiches

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 02:42 AM

View PostJulianCasablancas, on 28 April 2013 - 12:14 AM, said:

Think of all the new races plus 250+ years of change on the continents!

I always imagined they could easily tie in the Tengu being a playable race with a Cantha expansion/campaign. The Tengu open up their doors and tell us "Hey, we need to go back to our anestrial lands in Cantha for X reason which ties into all these dragons". I think it would make sense that they would want to try to go back to Cantha at some point.

Edit: My reasoning why: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tengu

Edited by Porkchop Sandwiches, 28 April 2013 - 03:04 AM.





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