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Resource: Dungeon and Fractal PvE Meta Builds

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#31 Nikephoros

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 06:50 PM

Can't speak for anything except guardian, but using 1h weapons and not going mandatory 30 Radiance for Right Hand Strength is madness for a DPS build. Also, a mininum of 20 points in Valor for Empowering Might is taken by nearly every sword or greatsword build.

Really, there's only 10 points left over for a 1h build, and while there is some choice, I'd say 10 in virtues for Unscathed Contener/Master of Consecrations is the most solid choice.


I agree with all of that. However, I acknowledge that a lot of people want to use GS or even hammers in guardian dps builds and they are viable so I felt keeping it as open as possible. Good feedback though.

Here's a token ranger build that should probably slowly become meta - http://gw2buildcraft...j|4i.4n.0.0.0|e

The secondary weapon is based on the situation - gsword (just use 2 and 3 and swap back over to sword) if there's no need to range which most of the time there isn't, or sbow if you really do need range.

5 remaining trait points can be used for:
a ) nature magic if frost spirit is worth taking in that particular dungeon (lots of longer boss fights with safe spots to drop the thing);
b ) skirmishing for some extra crit damage;
c ) wilderness survival for passive endurance regen;
d ) beast mastery for 50 bonus pet stats and cat bleeds on crit if you have no 25 bleed stacker already in the party, or alternatively if running with birds (which I wouldn't recommend) for the aoe vigor on bird swapping.

If you absolutely can't get used to the sword (it's not THAT hard) go with those 20 in nature magic, take the 5% greatsword dmg trait and use that as the main weapon. But the gsword aa is noticeably inferior than the sword's. Altho with gsword as main weapon you could use a more offensive food buff, like the butternut squash.

The pets would be jaguar and the second according to the needs of the situation - stalker, carrion devourer, alpine wolf/hound, jungle spider, red moa, one of the drakes are the most solid options that should cover most encounters.

Oh and ranger runes get their extra damage bonus regardless if the pet is dead or alive, so they are imo the most optimal choice.

About the other builds - the only one that caught my eye as kinda meh is the full axe warrior, even with eviscerate spamming as much as possible I don't think it can compete with the other build.

EDIT:
Just noticed the necro build and a staff on secondary slot really is useful, not just because it's a ranged option, but because it has great team utility - blast finisher/condition removal, poison field, bit of aoe regen, fear for running through stuff. And overall it's the main choice the necro has for some decent AoE when that is needed.


Thanks for the Ranger feedback.

As far as necro staff goes, there is great utility there. It should always be a 3rd weapon though and not part of your normal rotation.
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#32 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 08:11 PM

I think it's pretty debatable trying to make calls on what is "meta" for any given class, especially if you don't play that class. I did put together a list of "dos and don'ts" for the reddit crowd that I think is arguably more useful to people trying to figure out what they are doing than "thou shalt run these builds".

For reference, I'll just link it, since it's a big wall of text.

http://www.reddit.co...ungeon_classes/

It may be more productive to find ways to add to that list rather than what we have here.
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#33 Strife025

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 10:08 PM

Strife's mesmer build sucks and he is the only person who uses it. =P


Psh it's the best. You know those times you get downed because of downtime on a reflect or focus cooldown isn't refreshed, doesn't happen when I play mesmer.

20s pull and reflect on temporal curtain instead of 25s pull with no reflect, and 36s cooldown on feedback instead of 45s.

Extra damage you get from an extra shatter for 3k is meaningless with 3 warriors in fractal settings. Granted shatter is better for like CoF or CoE farming, but there's many times in 40+ fractals where the extra reflect and pulls was way more helpful then an extra shatter, especially since fights can be longer then named dungeons.

Helps way more for meleeing Mossman, Dredge Fractal, I would even argue Lupi since the only reason you get a 2nd feedback in phase 3 after phase 2 is because of glamour cooldown and the extra shatter is minor in that fight.

Edited by Strife025, 07 May 2013 - 10:12 PM.

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#34 Coren

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 07:21 AM

Surely if the rest of your group are zerkers that means your conditions are even more useless than normal due to the low life expectancy of enemy mobs?


Damage output is similar, so no. Besides, I stack the vulnerabilities and bleeds best most of the time.

Besides, works real well in WvW too.
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#35 Nikephoros

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 08:31 AM

"thou shalt run these builds".


It's weird that is the conclusion you got when I emphasized that these builds are shells and can be modified tons of ways to suit your preferences.

Psh it's the best. You know those times you get downed because of downtime on a reflect or focus cooldown isn't refreshed, doesn't happen when I play mesmer.

20s pull and reflect on temporal curtain instead of 25s pull with no reflect, and 36s cooldown on feedback instead of 45s.

Extra damage you get from an extra shatter for 3k is meaningless with 3 warriors in fractal settings. Granted shatter is better for like CoF or CoE farming, but there's many times in 40+ fractals where the extra reflect and pulls was way more helpful then an extra shatter, especially since fights can be longer then named dungeons.

Helps way more for meleeing Mossman, Dredge Fractal, I would even argue Lupi since the only reason you get a 2nd feedback in phase 3 after phase 2 is because of glamour cooldown and the extra shatter is minor in that fight.


=D
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#36 master21

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 10:15 AM

This meta is for what? cof p1?

I will lol at any mesmer without warden's feedback trait on high level fractal. Perma reflect on dredge, shaman, even stupid asura or ascalon fractals deals 1000x damage than some stupid shatter.

and the engi build. o m g. Who made it? there aren't any good traits in firearms at all. I will outdps this "meta" build with my hgh build at any time anywhere on any boss. And still can swap elixirs to have utilities to any encounter from projectile blocking to more endurance.
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#37 Nikephoros

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 10:52 AM

On the Wiki it does make this statement about sigils:

Permanent stat bonuses do not stack with themselves. Two weapons with Superior Sigil of Force yield only a +5% bonus to damage.


On each of the pages for Sigil of Force and Sigil of Accuracy it also states that two Sigils of Force (or two Sigils of Accuracy) will not stack with each other, however I haven't been able to find a source to say that a Sigil of Force and Sigil of Accuracy will not function together. On the GW2buildcraft site it appears to indicate that they can work at the same time. Then I tried plugging a Sigil of Force on both MH and OH weapons into the calculator and as predicted the damage bonus was still 5%, likewise with two Sigils of Accuracy giving only 5% bonus to crit chance.


Steady weapon, HoM put Accuracy on Main Hand and Force on off hand, hit the dummy and then switch hands. You'll see that the Force doesn't work.

Also, updated the OP with more builds.

Edited by Nikephoros, 08 May 2013 - 10:53 AM.

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#38 Lilitu

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 02:52 PM

Damage output is similar, so no. Besides, I stack the vulnerabilities and bleeds best most of the time.

Besides, works real well in WvW too.


I'm interested to know what condition spec can provide similar damage to a zerker warrior.
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#39 KaanTheImmortal

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 03:04 PM

I wonder about that aura build you posted. It's exactly the one I play, but in the build you included lightning hammer. How can you support through auras, when you wield the hammer? Or do you just use it untill it's gone and then support through auras?..
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#40 Xunlai Agent

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 03:45 PM

Damage output is similar, so no. Besides, I stack the vulnerabilities and bleeds best most of the time.

Damage output is not even remotely similar, taking Condition Damage gear for bleeds is a complete and utter waste (Malice does nothing for your vulnerability stacks).
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#41 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 04:29 PM

I'm interested to know what condition spec can provide similar damage to a zerker warrior.


Rampager engineer. The raw damage output isn't quite as high but the fact that you alone stack might and vulnerability pretty much to the cap makes up for the maybe 1k difference in overall damage.

Engineer is pretty much the only class I would actually recommend a condition damage spec for in PvE, though.
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#42 Nikephoros

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 04:35 PM

I wonder about that aura build you posted. It's exactly the one I play, but in the build you included lightning hammer. How can you support through auras, when you wield the hammer? Or do you just use it untill it's gone and then support through auras?..


Ignore the utilities, play cantrips or whatever you normally use. The Lightning Hammer is there because I used the LH build as a starting point to avoid the tedium of making the gear for the build again.
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#43 KMLin

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 07:25 PM

An alternative for Sigil of Night for Elementalist could also be Sigil of Intelligence, since there is a lot of attunement swapping involved in Aura sharing builds. (ie. Swapping to another attunement before Fire Grab or Churning Earth finishes casting)
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#44 JNeko

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 10:05 PM

I'm curious as to why you ended up including the auramancer build when you dismissed it earlier. Regardless, it's about the same build I use in dungeons myself, and I'm glad it made it there. :)

I'd change the Soothing Disruption trait to Vital Striking, just because Soothing Disruption is really best when paired with the Water Grandmaster Trait, Cleansing Water so that all your cantrips also now remove conditions.

I'd also point out that Sigil of Battle, from my experience, is quite a bit more useful than Night, just because Elementalists more naturally continually "swap" weapons than any other class.

For people's reference, I find Arcane Wave + Cantrips + Possibly Lightning Hammer if you have slots left over is a good set of utilities.

I talk about it in my own guide to the Ele in dungeons and fractals. http://www.guildwars...s-and-fractals/
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#45 Nikephoros

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 11:20 PM

I'm curious as to why you ended up including the auramancer build when you dismissed it earlier. Regardless, it's about the same build I use in dungeons myself, and I'm glad it made it there. :)

I'd change the Soothing Disruption trait to Vital Striking, just because Soothing Disruption is really best when paired with the Water Grandmaster Trait, Cleansing Water so that all your cantrips also now remove conditions.

I'd also point out that Sigil of Battle, from my experience, is quite a bit more useful than Night, just because Elementalists more naturally continually "swap" weapons than any other class.

For people's reference, I find Arcane Wave + Cantrips + Possibly Lightning Hammer if you have slots left over is a good set of utilities.

I talk about it in my own guide to the Ele in dungeons and fractals. http://www.guildwars...s-and-fractals/


I added it because of conversations I had with people I respect, heh. And like I said about the utilities, ignore the gear. I just ported the same set up from the LH ele because creating all the pve gear is tedious.
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#46 jthamind

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 11:57 PM

so, what's the deal with Sigil of Night? do you have to just hope the dungeon you're running is at night time or what? how often is it actually useful?
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#47 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 01:04 AM

so, what's the deal with Sigil of Night? do you have to just hope the dungeon you're running is at night time or what? how often is it actually useful?


Dungeons are fixed at either daytime or nighttime. I believe COF is night, for example. Presumably you'd just use the Night sigil for those dungeons, and Force for anything else.

Incidentally, if you want to test which is what, get one of those might/chill on crit foods and see whether your crits are giving you might or chill. Easiest method.
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#48 Digilodger

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 01:15 AM

so, what's the deal with Sigil of Night? do you have to just hope the dungeon you're running is at night time or what? how often is it actually useful?


Dungeons have fixed day/night.

Off the top of my head:
  • Night dungeons include AC, TA, SE, CoF, CoE.
  • Day dungeons include CM, HotW, Arah,
  • and FotM are mixed (used to be all days before Jan. 28 update)
I'll re-check this tonight once I get home from work (at work right now). Will get home in around 2 hrs or so.

Edited by Digilodger, 09 May 2013 - 01:22 AM.

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#49 RipJack

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 03:23 AM

Can any necromancer in high level FotM confirm this dagger build?

It seems odd to me how this build would work.
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#50 Nikephoros

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 11:34 AM

Can any necromancer in high level FotM confirm this dagger build?

It seems odd to me how this build would work.


What's odd about it? A light armor melee class? At fractal 48 the weight class of your armor isn't really relevant to your durability. Either you can dodge, LOS, utilize reflects... or you can't.
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#51 Bloggi

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 10:45 AM

Steady weapon, HoM put Accuracy on Main Hand and Force on off hand, hit the dummy and then switch hands. You'll see that the Force doesn't work.

Also, updated the OP with more builds.


Ok I got a chance to test this myself this evening.

Edit again: On testing yesterday evening I was quite convinced that those sigils didn't stack, but I spent a bit of time thinking about how to test it again and tried it again today. It appears that the effect of those sigils do stack, unless I tested it wrong.

I went to HoM, got two steady daggers and put Accuracy on MH first, and equipped the other dagger on OH without any sigil. Hit a golem a few times to check the damage on normal and critical hits. Then I got out of combat and put Force on the OH dagger. Damage was increased. Then I got out of combat again, swapped the OH dagger with Force onto MH (putting the dagger with Accuracy onto the OH). Damage remained at the same increased level.

Edited by Bloggi, 11 May 2013 - 03:43 AM.

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#52 Nikephoros

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 02:50 PM

I just tested to confirm and you're right Force and Accuracy do stack. This is definitely different, they must have changed it in a recent update because I've test this before and it was different. This does change things, thanks for the input!
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#53 Hells Fury

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:00 PM

I just tested to confirm and you're right Force and Accuracy do stack. This is definitely different, they must have changed it in a recent update because I've test this before and it was different. This does change things, thanks for the input!


The way I have been doing this is Force and Accuracy if <70% base crit. If >70% crit I use Force and Strength. Or if 2H Force usually unless <70% crit. This works for all classes and build that are going for maximizing damage output.
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#54 Nikephoros

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:48 PM

I think the debate is whether or not to take Force and Battle (or strength or bloodlust) vs Force and Accuracy. Depending on your crit damage % you can calculate what % dps increase Accuracy gives and compare that to your EV from battle/strength/bloodlust.
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#55 Strife025

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 07:14 AM

Yea they must have changed something since a couple months ago I tested Force and Accuracy the same way and it definitely didn't stack. I'm interested if force + force stacks now then?

I guess I'll test it after work tomorrow unless someone gets to it first.

Edited by Strife025, 13 May 2013 - 07:14 AM.

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#56 thewindwaker

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:55 PM

Yea they must have changed something since a couple months ago I tested Force and Accuracy the same way and it definitely didn't stack. I'm interested if force + force stacks now then?

I guess I'll test it after work tomorrow unless someone gets to it first.

have u already tested it? would be great if they stacked :-)
(if I understand it corretely, force and accuracy don't stack, and you're checking double force, right?)
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#57 Strife025

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:22 AM

have u already tested it? would be great if they stacked :-)
(if I understand it corretely, force and accuracy don't stack, and you're checking double force, right?)


Yea 2 force don't stack. Apparently Accuracy + Force stacks now.
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#58 thewindwaker

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:40 AM

Yea 2 force don't stack. Apparently Accuracy + Force stacks now.


cool! =) great u took the time.
does this change anything in terms of your gs/axe+mace spec? would it be more efficient to use force instead of battle now? :P
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#59 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:49 AM

I remember testing Force + Accuracy back in beta and it worked. Well, I can't speak for Accuracy working but Force definitely worked regardless of which hand it was in. Anet may have broken something in a recent update and re-fixed in this one.
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#60 Nikephoros

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 01:03 PM

Updated warrior, phantasm mesmer, LH ele for this patch.
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