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Do you observe PvP?


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#1 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:08 AM

(Thought of plastering this into The Courtyard, but then I decided for TA because I'd love to also hear from the folks that do not observe it and I think placing it here might be a better way to reach them. Feel free to move it though, if you feel it's better suited for that place though.)


Spent a few moments watching watching Guru's tournament yesterday and I wondered who watches PvP and why? Do you watch it in-game with the observer mode or through streams/replays? Do you watch it to learn, pick up build ideas, to waste time, ...?
And if you don't watch it, why not?

#2 PheBelladona

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:22 AM

Xeph's team escape portal followed by res and Moa on guardian was worth watching for, just brilliant.

#3 beadnbutter32

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:38 AM

If your a pvp player, its like ice cream, but not so much for pvp noobs.

I used to think spectating would be a good way to learn about pvp, and maybe a way to get into it eventually but...

If your not a pvp regular, you have no idea at all what is going on, your not going to watch more than once or twice.

The plethora of classes and weapons does not help noobs to understand the action.

Tiny asura characters make it even harder to tell what class it is and what it is doing.

I can't see this being of much use educationally for non-pvpers unless there is some-one really really good doing announcing, kind of like John Madden with telestrator and everything.  Unfortunately the few heavily advertised tournaments I have watched have all been announced by players who think they are in a competition to use as many esoteric, obscure or hip pvp slang as possible and they assume every one watching is a pvp aficionado.

Not knowing what is going on makes it very boring to watch and about 2 minutes is all I can stand before leaving.

Games like Starcraft can be fun to watch for non-players because the basic game play is understandable and quickly grasped, so that game gets huge viewer numbers from not just hard-core players.

GW2 pvp is way to complex due to so many classes, weapons and skills.  Add to that eye candy particle effects that overshadow most of the action and tends to distract the viewer from the real action.

Edited by beadnbutter32, 20 May 2013 - 11:47 AM.


#4 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 12:37 PM

View Postbeadnbutter32, on 20 May 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

GW2 pvp is way to complex due to so many classes, weapons and skills.  Add to that eye candy particle effects that overshadow most of the action and tends to distract the viewer from the real action.

This is how I feel also. And to make the situation even worse, I absolutely hate the zoom level: the camera is way to close to the action, further limiting your understanding of the battle.

#5 Featherman

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 12:50 PM

View PostRitualist, on 20 May 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

This is how I feel also. And to make the situation even worse, I absolutely hate the zoom level: the camera is way to close to the action, further limiting your understanding of the battle.
The actual action is often convoluted. The speed of the attacks, particles, and the untelegraphed nature of conditions and boons make the information even more difficult to understand. I think ANet will need to find a way to telegraph that kind of information if they want the game to be observable. Furthermore, I don't see the current game mode and maps as caster-friendly either. There's a lot of micro strategy, which is intrinsically difficult to cast due to aforementioned issues, but little room for macro strategies like lord rushing.

Edited by Featherman, 20 May 2013 - 01:08 PM.


#6 dimiguel

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 01:29 PM

I tried watching the Guild Wars 2 tournament yesterday in between breaks from the Dota 2 West Qualifiers, which were fantastic btw. The difference between the quality of PVP content in both games is really shocking.

For me, Guild Wars 2 simply isn't fun to watch. It's hard to understand what is going on onscreen, even if you understand what the announcers are saying. I think this is in part due to the particle effects and the weird floating combat text. It's also, for me, incredibly boring... All I see is characters running around casting spells and it all just looks like a big uncoordinated mess.

After making this comment in the stream (and obviously getting attacked for it), players were saying that I simply "did not know the game" and "did not understand how the game works or what is happening onscreen". I don't think this really matters. In order for PVP matches to be enjoyable they need to be accessible to everyone, not just players who actually play the game.

And... if that's not possible because the game is too complex, at least make it fun to watch... That ugly floating combat text and those crazy particles just ruin the experienc efor me...

Edited by dimiguel, 20 May 2013 - 01:30 PM.


#7 MazingerZ

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 03:49 PM

I can barely follow it when I'm playing PvP.  The particle effects in a skirmish do ♥♥♥♥ all to tell you ♥♥♥♥ all.  Say what you will about WoW's systems, but when 10 people got together with 10 other people, I knew what was going down.

Edited by MazingerZ, 20 May 2013 - 03:49 PM.

It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#8 Xunlai Agent

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 03:51 PM

No, it's not really worth it to be honest...

#9 MazingerZ

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 03:53 PM

View PostXunlai Agent, on 20 May 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

No, it's not really worth it to be honest...

Funnily enough, I loaded up the Twitch app to see what was going on last night.

Most of the channels were about Fractals.  There were two PvP channels.  One was an engineer doing sPvP and another was a Thief who basically said he sucked and come watch him suck at it.
It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#10 Desild

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 03:54 PM

I usually take breaks from watching paint dry to observe some PvP matches. More often than not, I need a breather before going back to the exciting world of paint drying.

Seriously, PvP is engaging when you're the one doing it. Unless you like to sharpen your tactical awareness or whatever... I won't judge.

#11 Verene

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 04:14 PM

It's PvP. Enough said. I have absolutely no interest in playing it (I've done a few matches, but just like every other game, it's simply not my thing), so I definitely have zero interest in watching it. Especially as I find watching other people playing games to be one of the most boring things to do anyway.

#12 Vapor

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:46 PM

View PostPheBelladona, on 20 May 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

Xeph's team escape portal followed by res and Moa on guardian was worth watching for, just brilliant.
Moment of the entire tournament.

#13 The_Blades

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:50 PM

when i go to gw1.

gw2 pvp is ludicrous by comparison.

#14 Bloggi

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 01:04 AM

If I had the time, I'd watch more of it.

#15 Fizzypop

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 02:56 AM

No. I find the pvp in this game incredibly boring.

#16 Ritter

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 07:27 AM

i'd watch more if if the spectator mode had a free camera option. Being used to Dota 2(or any other FPS games) spectator mode, being forced to either follow player or a preset viewpoint is an extreme turn off.

Actually, who freaking thought it was a good idea not to include free camera mode as a spectator option. Pretty much every other game has that option. Afraid of cheating or something? And why do spectators take up slot in game?

I hate to sound like Im raging, but GW2 spectator mode is hugely disappointing at best. A.net doesn't play other pvp games?

Edited by Ritter, 21 May 2013 - 07:35 AM.


#17 Dirame

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 09:34 AM

Apparently, something to do with their engine currently allowing people to go out of the map boundaries with free cam and server architecture not allowing them to make spectator mode slots separate from the slots available in a match. Same thing with playbacks and things of that nature. Those will probably come in an update.

At OP;

I definitely enjoy watching GW2 matches, especially the ones with epic comebacks and cool group strats. I feel the maps they chose for these tournies are too simple. I think it would be more exciting if they chose Temple of the Silent Storm, Spirit Watch and Legacy of the Foefire or Forest of Nifhlel because those maps force people off points and allow the spectator to talk about other things.

The most boring matches are the ones where the secondary objectives are ignored... or no one performs something spectacular.

Edited by Dirame, 21 May 2013 - 09:36 AM.


#18 Cube

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 09:53 AM

I used to watch in GW1 PvP(GvG) spectator sometimes, and learnt a few things. One thing I will always remember is the "always wand with a shield in your left hand".

I don't watch it in GW2 as I don't play the PvP. But even thought I did in GW1 I was never one who watched it a lot or anything. And just like Verene said, watching people play games is the most boring thing there is haha :P But each to their own!




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